General Sealed & Graded Discussion

[AnimalHouse | 117]

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Edited September 10, 2021 by AnimalHouse

[Code Monkey | 2,006]

43 minutes ago, CodysGameRoom said:

Fair enough but could Jone or any of the other sealed game experts here? You could get a good estimate from a legit EXPERT around here, throw it in a case, save yourself hundreds of dollars and months of waiting time. 

You're not done as soon as it's graded. If I hear of someone selling a 9.4 WATA graded game, I don't even need to look at it, I can purchase it blind. And if it doesn't come in the condition I expect, I can go back to WATA to question them on it.

If Jone grades my game and it comes back worse than I expect, what do I do? Go to Jone and question him about it? He's not going to care. Also, WATA probably has $20,000 or more into the development of their cases and patents. Jone will not have that.

[GPX | 1,369]

1 hour ago, CodysGameRoom said:

Sure. But grading isn't collecting, let's be careful with our words here. Collecting is collecting. Grading is just spending money to determine the condition. Which anyone with a set of eyes can do.

Fair enough. I still think you could get a good idea of condition by, ya know, looking at it, and if you want a second opinion, post here or other forums. But I guess you can't sell that for a million bucks, lol.

Anything one does that ends up being a part of their collection for a prolonged period = collecting.

Therefore grading is a part of collecting if one chooses to keep it, rather than to flip it immediately. To cut short, if I grade and keep, or I buy graded games and keep, I’m collecting.

To your second point, if you choose your own eyes to buy games for your collection, then that’s perfectly fine. Others may want a third party to use a professional judgement to buy their games of certain condition. People have the options on what they want to do to make purchase.

 

[TDIRunner | 2,734]

32 minutes ago, GPX said:

Anything one does that ends up being a part of their collection for a prolonged period = collecting.

Therefore grading is a part of collecting if one chooses to keep it, rather than to flip it immediately. To cut short, if I grade and keep, or I buy graded games and keep, I’m collecting.

 

 

I wouldn't call a long term investor a "collector."  I'm not saying that genuine collectors can't get games graded specifically for their collection, but your definition of what equals collecting is simply wrong.  It's very easy to find examples of people doing that very thing who aren't collecting.  

Edited September 9, 2021 by TDIRunner

[GPX | 1,369]

5 minutes ago, TDIRunner said:

I wouldn't call a long term investor a "collector."  I'm not saying that genuine collectors can't get games graded specifically for their collection, but your definition of what equals collecting is simply wrong.  It's very easy to find examples of people doing that very thing who aren't collecting.  

Yeah, you got me on a technicality. 

However, if an investor collects and shows their collection in public, no one would know if he/she is an investor or collector, but only himself/herself. The main point being, if people do whatever to keep for a long time, then that’s collecting. What people do with the games after a lengthy period, then that will make them who they are - collector/investor/both.

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

51 minutes ago, GPX said:

To cut short, if I grade and keep, or I buy graded games and keep, I’m collecting.

Collecting extra plastic maybe. You already collected the game before you graded it.

I'm not saying grading games makes you NOT a collector. I'm just saying - grading games isn't collecting games. Collecting games is buying/ getting games. Grading it is.... its not adding games to your collection.

You know I guess it's just a silly semantics debate. Change the word to hobby and I'm fine. If I say "a big part of my collecting is re-arranging my games"... I mean that's not collecting. It's just moving shit around. But if I say "a big part of my hobby is re-arranging my games", it works. 

[TDIRunner | 2,734]

20 minutes ago, GPX said:

However, if an investor collects and shows their collection in public, no one would know if he/she is an investor or collector, but only himself/herself. 

Correct.

21 minutes ago, GPX said:

The main point being, if people do whatever to keep for a long time, then that’s collecting. 

Incorrect.  You are repeating your same mistake from before.

Most long term investors know they are long term investors from day 1.  Whether or not we can tell is irrelevant.  

[GPX | 1,369]

2 minutes ago, TDIRunner said:

Correct.

Incorrect.  You are repeating your same mistake from before.

Most long term investors know they are long term investors from day 1.  Whether or not we can tell is irrelevant.  

But I’m not talking about specific motives. I was talking generally, that if I buy a game and do whatever with it with the intention to keep, that makes me a collector.

[inasuma | 1,203]

3 hours ago, Code Monkey said:

I have a 8.5 here that I bet you couldn't tell from a 9.6.

in a wata case, yes. my 8.5 and even an 8.0, unless it's in the right light and you look closely, you'd think it's 9.4-9.6 quality.

it doesn't help that wata's inner holder component obscures damage almost deceptively well.

[3rdStrongestMole | 430]

14 minutes ago, inasuma said:

in a wata case, yes. my 8.5 and even an 8.0, unless it's in the right light and you look closely, you'd think it's 9.4-9.6 quality.

it doesn't help that wata's inner holder component obscures damage almost deceptively well.

That's why they all look so damn appealing in that plastic a 6.0 looks fresh af in a WATA slab.

[3rdStrongestMole | 430]

This is an interesting conversation.

I've had WATA games and VGA games, and sold almost all of them, and submitted more that I'll keep... So it's a small part of my collecting. I love hunting down sealed games that I had as a child (well, not so much anymore,  but I still try...) and then having a copy to play and one to grade and display... 

Anyways, what im asking is... why can't it just be PART of my collecting? Kinda like... collecting Nintendo plushies or signs... and just be exponentially more expensive?? 

When I do sell, that money usually goes right back into gaming anyways...

 

[inasuma | 1,203]

1 hour ago, 3rdStrongestMole said:

Anyways, what im asking is... why can't it just be PART of my collecting? Kinda like... collecting Nintendo plushies or signs... and just be exponentially more expensive?? 

This is part of the gatekeeping conversation I don't get. Like on /r/gamecollecting, people get some upset at graded collecting but like every other category: collecting loose, sealed, cib. It's literally just another category of the same thing, just more expensive if you buy pre-graded games.

[inasuma | 1,203]

Heads up drob is live with karl and minusworlds

https://www.instagram.com/drobgaming/live/

[AnimalHouse | 117]

13 hours ago, inasuma said:

Heads up drob is live with karl and minusworlds

https://www.instagram.com/drobgaming/live/

Wow that dude has a remarkable impressive collection. I have a hard time parting with any video game in my collection as many of them are irreplaceable but I can understand why others do it. 

[OptOut | 8,883]

On 9/10/2021 at 6:31 AM, 3rdStrongestMole said:

Anyways, what im asking is... why can't it just be PART of my collecting? Kinda like... collecting Nintendo plushies or signs... and just be exponentially more expensive?? 

 

On 9/10/2021 at 8:44 AM, inasuma said:

This is part of the gatekeeping conversation I don't get. Like on /r/gamecollecting, people get some upset at graded collecting but like every other category: collecting loose, sealed, cib. It's literally just another category of the same thing, just more expensive if you buy pre-graded games.

For me, it simply comes down to intent. You could have your entire collection slabbed and still be a collector if the MAIN goal of your collecting was to hold on to pieces and appreciate them for the objects they are. Or you could have NONE of your games slabbed, but if you were only buying them to resell I wouldn't really consider that collecting.

I mean, if you go into a retrogame store or an eBay store, you don't think, "wow this is a great collection", right? If the games are all for sale, the INTENT of holding the games is profit, it's not for the sake of the games themselves. That would also apply in cases where people are buying sealed games as investments only, even if they held them for ten years it wouldn't be the same intent as a regular collector.

 

Now, there are actually two important facets of this to consider which kind of muddy the waters.

Firstly, you get a group of items together in the same place, that is by DEFINITION a collection. You could call the masses of empty beer cans in my recycling bin a collection, technically. So, an investor with ten sealed games worth half a million dollars DOES technically count as a collection. But that's why I say it is the INTENTION behind the collecting which is important for distinguishing between the two different hobbies that have formed up.

Secondly, and this is also VERY important to remember, it is very difficult to ascribe intent from the outside looking in. People like our dentist friend have very explicitly defined their intent as an investor, and so I have no qualms about judging him and his actions based on that. For others though, you will notice I condemn the actions, and the activities of the market as a whole, as well as key known players within it, but not individual collectors just because they like to participate in that market.

 

Ultimately, it's just another division and distinction that you can group under the wider category of videogame adjacent hobbies/interests I guess. If you EXCLUSIVELY play modern games, I feel that isn't really my hobby either, for example, but it's obviously related. Even if you only play retro games but you only emulate and never buy a real game, that's not really my hobby either, although that's definitely closer to what I'm doing.

Buying games to invest is also not my hobby, for the same reasons, it's related they share some similarities with what I do, but it's not the same thing. Doesn't mean if you do that then you can't ALSO be a collector like me at the same time. But if you ONLY buy games to invest, then no it isn't the same.

 

Man, TLDR, ammirite? Hope I made SOME sense in all that! 

[3rdStrongestMole | 430]

1 hour ago, OptOut said:

 

For me, it simply comes down to intent. You could have your entire collection slabbed and still be a collector if the MAIN goal of your collecting was to hold on to pieces and appreciate them for the objects they are. Or you could have NONE of your games slabbed, but if you were only buying them to resell I wouldn't really consider that collecting.

I mean, if you go into a retrogame store or an eBay store, you don't think, "wow this is a great collection", right? If the games are all for sale, the INTENT of holding the games is profit, it's not for the sake of the games themselves. That would also apply in cases where people are buying sealed games as investments only, even if they held them for ten years it wouldn't be the same intent as a regular collector.

 

Now, there are actually two important facets of this to consider which kind of muddy the waters.

Firstly, you get a group of items together in the same place, that is by DEFINITION a collection. You could call the masses of empty beer cans in my recycling bin a collection, technically. So, an investor with ten sealed games worth half a million dollars DOES technically count as a collection. But that's why I say it is the INTENTION behind the collecting which is important for distinguishing between the two different hobbies that have formed up.

Secondly, and this is also VERY important to remember, it is very difficult to ascribe intent from the outside looking in. People like our dentist friend have very explicitly defined their intent as an investor, and so I have no qualms about judging him and his actions based on that. For others though, you will notice I condemn the actions, and the activities of the market as a whole, as well as key known players within it, but not individual collectors just because they like to participate in that market.

 

Ultimately, it's just another division and distinction that you can group under the wider category of videogame adjacent hobbies/interests I guess. If you EXCLUSIVELY play modern games, I feel that isn't really my hobby either, for example, but it's obviously related. Even if you only play retro games but you only emulate and never buy a real game, that's not really my hobby either, although that's definitely closer to what I'm doing.

Buying games to invest is also not my hobby, for the same reasons, it's related they share some similarities with what I do, but it's not the same thing. Doesn't mean if you do that then you can't ALSO be a collector like me at the same time. But if you ONLY buy games to invest, then no it isn't the same.

 

Man, TLDR, ammirite? Hope I made SOME sense in all that! 

This is pretty damn on point accurate I feel.

Analogy: video game investors are like the douchebag guy that dates the super hot, funny, intelligent girl that the other guys are all actually in love with and would treat her so much better, but he's just gonna use her for her body and toss her aside. 

The in love dude always sees the best in her and that she brings so much more to the table than looks... but since the douchebag is monopolizing her,  the in love guy can't afford her and thus can't show her the proper care and play that she deserves...

A little muddled at the end there, but you get the idea...

[phart010 | 1,707]

13 minutes ago, 3rdStrongestMole said:

This is pretty damn on point accurate I feel.

Analogy: video game investors are like the douchebag guy that dates the super hot, funny, intelligent girl that the other guys are all actually in love with and would treat her so much better, but he's just gonna use her for her body and toss her aside. 

The in love dude always sees the best in her and that she brings so much more to the table than looks... but since the douchebag is monopolizing her,  the in love guy can't afford her and thus can't show her the proper care and play that she deserves...

A little muddled at the end there, but you get the idea...

Simp.. just kidding

[inasuma | 1,203]

1 hour ago, OptOut said:

Secondly, and this is also VERY important to remember, it is very difficult to ascribe intent from the outside looking in. People like our dentist friend have very explicitly defined their intent as an investor, and so I have no qualms about judging him and his actions based on that. For others though, you will notice I condemn the actions, and the activities of the market as a whole, as well as key known players within it, but not individual collectors just because they like to participate in that market.

Agree 9000%

[GPX | 1,369]

2 hours ago, OptOut said:

 

For me, it simply comes down to intent. You could have your entire collection slabbed and still be a collector if the MAIN goal of your collecting was to hold on to pieces and appreciate them for the objects they are. Or you could have NONE of your games slabbed, but if you were only buying them to resell I wouldn't really consider that collecting.

I mean, if you go into a retrogame store or an eBay store, you don't think, "wow this is a great collection", right? If the games are all for sale, the INTENT of holding the games is profit, it's not for the sake of the games themselves. That would also apply in cases where people are buying sealed games as investments only, even if they held them for ten years it wouldn't be the same intent as a regular collector.

 

Now, there are actually two important facets of this to consider which kind of muddy the waters.

Firstly, you get a group of items together in the same place, that is by DEFINITION a collection. You could call the masses of empty beer cans in my recycling bin a collection, technically. So, an investor with ten sealed games worth half a million dollars DOES technically count as a collection. But that's why I say it is the INTENTION behind the collecting which is important for distinguishing between the two different hobbies that have formed up.

Secondly, and this is also VERY important to remember, it is very difficult to ascribe intent from the outside looking in. People like our dentist friend have very explicitly defined their intent as an investor, and so I have no qualms about judging him and his actions based on that. For others though, you will notice I condemn the actions, and the activities of the market as a whole, as well as key known players within it, but not individual collectors just because they like to participate in that market.

 

Ultimately, it's just another division and distinction that you can group under the wider category of videogame adjacent hobbies/interests I guess. If you EXCLUSIVELY play modern games, I feel that isn't really my hobby either, for example, but it's obviously related. Even if you only play retro games but you only emulate and never buy a real game, that's not really my hobby either, although that's definitely closer to what I'm doing.

Buying games to invest is also not my hobby, for the same reasons, it's related they share some similarities with what I do, but it's not the same thing. Doesn't mean if you do that then you can't ALSO be a collector like me at the same time. But if you ONLY buy games to invest, then no it isn't the same.

 

Man, TLDR, ammirite? Hope I made SOME sense in all that! 

Yep, it’s all about the intent which makes you who you are relating to the games collection. 

The previous point with @CodysGameRoom, he mentioned “grading isn’t a part of collecting”. Well I was arguing with that point, because grading is a part of collecting, whether you wish to partake or not is another issue.

Think of a hypothetical sealed game one has just purchased. You can either:

- break the seal and display it as a mint game

- display it as a sealed game

- get it displayed with plastic protectors 

- get it encased with acrylic with a lid

- get it graded and permanently stored in an acrylic with a grade next to a game.

If the intent is that you want to display it, and you will cherish it for more than monetary worth, then any of the above actions will qualify you as a “collector”.  There is no right or wrong with what you do with your item, as long as the intent is to appreciate it when in your possession. 

[GPX | 1,369]

1 hour ago, 3rdStrongestMole said:

This is pretty damn on point accurate I feel.

Analogy: video game investors are like the douchebag guy that dates the super hot, funny, intelligent girl that the other guys are all actually in love with and would treat her so much better, but he's just gonna use her for her body and toss her aside. 

The in love dude always sees the best in her and that she brings so much more to the table than looks... but since the douchebag is monopolizing her,  the in love guy can't afford her and thus can't show her the proper care and play that she deserves...

A little muddled at the end there, but you get the idea...

Collectors are your nerds who want to believe in true love; they appreciate the games/partner for the inside as well as the outside. 

Current “investors” who are making the high end bids on HA are your fake A-holes who only want to date people for their body/money/status or anything other than genuine care/affection of that someone of interest. Meanwhile they pretend to act like they care a lot. 

 

[OptOut | 8,883]

2 minutes ago, GPX said:

Yep, it’s all about the intent which makes you who you are relating to the games collection. 

The previous point with @CodysGameRoom, he mentioned “grading isn’t a part of collecting”. Well I was arguing with that point, because grading is a part of collecting, whether you wish to partake or not is another issue.

Think of a hypothetical sealed game one has just purchased. You can either:

- break the seal and display it as a mint game

- display it as a sealed game

- get it displayed with plastic protectors 

- get it encased with acrylic with a lid

- get it graded and permanently stored in an acrylic with a grade next to a game.

If the intent is that you want to display it, and you will cherish it for more than monetary worth, then any of the above actions will qualify you as a “collector”.  There is no right or wrong with what you do with your item, as long as the intent is to appreciate it when in your possession. 

Absolutely.

Whereas, purchasing a raw game at an inflated price with the intention of getting it graded as quickly as possible to shove into the next HA auction would be the actions of an "investor".

Or, only buying games that are already graded because you assume they will appreciate in value and holding on to them for an unspecified period of time, with the expectation of selling them at a later date, again would be the actions of an investor rather than a collector.

There is a lot of nuance to this dichotomy which I believe most commenters (not necessarily here on VGS but certainly elsewhere) don't quite get, or in some cases purposefully ignore.

[guillavoie | 1,208]

1 hour ago, OptOut said:

Whereas, purchasing a raw game at an inflated price with the intention of getting it graded as quickly as possible to shove into the next HA auction would be the actions of an "investor".

What if it is someone who bought something for a good deal and then flip it immediately to HA in order to have more money to buy games he wants for his collection?

 

1 hour ago, OptOut said:

Or, only buying games that are already graded because you assume they will appreciate in value and holding on to them for an unspecified period of time, with the expectation of selling them at a later date, again would be the actions of an investor rather than a collector.

What about someone that bought sealed games for decades as a hobby, and that now decide to sell off his games for life changing money?

 

 

[OptOut | 8,883]

13 minutes ago, guillavoie said:

What if it is someone who bought something for a good deal and then flip it immediately to HA in order to have more money to buy games he wants for his collection?

In this case, the action would be the action of an investor, or rather a reseller in this case. The intent behind the purchase was profit-driven. A collector doing this for his own collection would still be a collector, obviously, but collectors can be investors and resellers as well. It's intersectional.

It's a bit like being a gamer versus a collector, when in fact most of us are BOTH gamers AND collectors. I personally would say I am a good mix of both, but if I had to pick one I would say I am a GAMER first, collector second. But I am still a collector too.

17 minutes ago, guillavoie said:

What about someone that bought sealed games for decades as a hobby, and that now decide to sell off his games for life changing money?

If they sold all their games they would no longer be a collector, I would say, or you could call them an ex-collector or retired collector or something. If they still kept some of their games, they would be a collector. I wouldn't call someone who bought games to own an investor, just because their games happened to inflate in value to a point where it made more sense to sell them. Only if they bought them with the intention to sell in the first place.

[YOURTURN | 1,256]

38 minutes ago, guillavoie said:

What if it is someone who bought something for a good deal and then flip it immediately to HA in order to have more money to buy games he wants for his collection?

Change HA to swap meets, flea markets, and every other pre-Heritage Auction means of selling something for money... And you literally have the history of how many collectors have financed their means of accomplishing their goals. The only difference is that most collectors do not flip if that "good deal" piece is on their want list. And if they did, it was because they were able to find an upgrade that met their collecting goals.

38 minutes ago, guillavoie said:

What about someone that bought sealed games for decades as a hobby, and that now decide to sell off his games for life changing money?

They chose to retire and move onto something new. In this case all they chose to do is stop collecting video games for their own reasons. It's both psychologically and emotionally healthy to do that. Especially if there is a new hobby in the horizon, or said collector found something new to collect. Because in the end... It is no different than a newspaper writer to retire with a pension. All because they could choose to also be a freelance writer or a novelist.

[GPX | 1,369]

I think the difficulty of making concrete definitions of, “gamer”, collector”, “investor”, “reseller” etc, lies in the fact that most of us are a combo of these groups of factions. 

We all need some sort of collection to game, and most collectors also play games in some capacity. Additionally, most collectors with an overflowing collection often have to sell, and most resellers often have a private collection. So the distinction between the groups are never really clear cut.