General Sealed & Graded Discussion

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

Can someone answer this question? I am being serious. What gives someone at VGA, WATA, etc the authority to grade a game? Like, why are their opinions on the grade of a game taken seriously? Because they are employed with a grading company? If I'm a long time collector, why is their opinion and grade of a game considered more important than my own?

It just doesn't make much sense to me. If I had tons of money I could start a grading company right now. I'm just a collector like these guys were. I'm no different. So I just don't really get why their opinions on the condition of a game are considered more worthy. 

[Gulag Joe | 582]

1 hour ago, Jim Jimmer said:

Yes it has been graded 9.6 A+ and will likely be the front page if the catalogue. I dont know the story to it but i know there was a lot of sealed ps1 longboxes sent to HA raw and were subsequently graded (re1 being one of them). 
 

will be an interesting auction thats for sure. 

Wow!

[Gulag Joe | 582]

20 minutes ago, CodysGameRoom said:

Can someone answer this question? I am being serious. What gives someone at VGA, WATA, etc the authority to grade a game? Like, why are their opinions on the grade of a game taken seriously? Because they are employed with a grading company? If I'm a long time collector, why is their opinion and grade of a game considered more important than my own?

It just doesn't make much sense to me. If I had tons of money I could start a grading company right now. I'm just a collector like these guys were. I'm no different. So I just don't really get why their opinions on the condition of a game are considered more worthy. 

I look at them as being knowledgeable 3rd party opinions that are, most of the time, non-biased. In other words, if VGS had a place where we could submit games to get graded and slabbed, I'd use the knowledge of people in this group to offer an accurate idea of the condition of my games. 

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

4 minutes ago, Gulag Joe said:

I look at them as being knowledgeable 3rd party opinions that are, most of the time, non-biased. In other words, if VGS had a place where we could submit games to get graded and slabbed, I'd use the knowledge of people in this group to offer an accurate idea of the condition of my games. 

Why does it need to be graded and slabbed to get a 3rd party opinion on the condition of the game? Pretty sure people can and do post photos of games here all the time to get 3rd party opinions, for free. What you are saying already happens without grading and slabbing. So that answer doesn't really do it for me. 

[spacepup | 2,404]

29 minutes ago, CodysGameRoom said:

Can someone answer this question? I am being serious. What gives someone at VGA, WATA, etc the authority to grade a game? Like, why are their opinions on the grade of a game taken seriously? Because they are employed with a grading company? If I'm a long time collector, why is their opinion and grade of a game considered more important than my own?

It just doesn't make much sense to me. If I had tons of money I could start a grading company right now. I'm just a collector like these guys were. I'm no different. So I just don't really get why their opinions on the condition of a game are considered more worthy. 

Really, just the establishment and the documented process / system / infrastructure.  There are many of us who have been doing this a long time.  For example, I know that jonebone has been into sealed games for many many years, and I would put him up there with anyone else in terms of experience and ability to grade games.  It just so happens that he isn't part of a company that does so or doesn't have the interest in it.

There are many *individuals* who could do a perfectly fine job of grading.  It is the company, systems, quality control, and process, that enable grading to work.  And with enough marketing and credibility, as soon as said company gains enough consumer confidence, it's go time.  And this is what happened with WATA.  Regardless of how anyone feels about them as a company or the actions / HA stuff / etc., one thing I will give them credit for, is that they did a REALLY good job of quickly gaining credibility and consumer confidence.  They were very smart about how they started out, and went all out in terms of the technology, quality of the product itself, professional appeal, etc.  

Essentially, the "authority" is given to them / earned with consumer appeal and confidence.  Once people start using and recognizing the service as the authority, that's when they have it.

Personally, I don't really care about someone else's opinion of the quality of my game.  What I care about is my own opinion of the game and how good it looks to me and how happy I am with it. 

[Gulag Joe | 582]

10 minutes ago, CodysGameRoom said:

Why does it need to be graded and slabbed to get a 3rd party opinion on the condition of the game? Pretty sure people can and do post photos of games here all the time to get 3rd party opinions, for free. What you are saying already happens without grading and slabbing. So that answer doesn't really do it for me. 

A tamper proof container to keep my game in the assigned grade builds trust in the item. Otherwise, I'd get your opinion and just change the grade to a 10, regardless of what you say, and then people be like "why did codysgameroom grade this hunk of garbage covered in mold a 10?"

[TDIRunner | 2,736]

46 minutes ago, CodysGameRoom said:

Can someone answer this question? I am being serious. What gives someone at VGA, WATA, etc the authority to grade a game? Like, why are their opinions on the grade of a game taken seriously? Because they are employed with a grading company? If I'm a long time collector, why is their opinion and grade of a game considered more important than my own?

It just doesn't make much sense to me. If I had tons of money I could start a grading company right now. I'm just a collector like these guys were. I'm no different. So I just don't really get why their opinions on the condition of a game are considered more worthy. 

I'm not answering this for WATA.  This is a general answer for all grading companies.  In theory, the workers at a grading company are experienced people with a lot of knowledge of the items they are grading, whether that be video games, cards or comics.  They have been around the industry for a long time, and seen enough examples to know what to look for what what is near perfect and what isn't.  In theory, anyone could start a grading company which is why transparency is important.  Knowing who is grading the games helps to build trust, because if they have had the proper experience, chances are they are already well known in the community.  Some graders have this transparency, while others don't.

As far as slabbing the product in the company's respective case, the point there is that once the item has been graded by a company, the case will prevent that grade from changing forever (assuming it stays in the case).  This allows buyers and sellers to trust the condition of the game without having to view it with their own eyes.  This makes online purchases and auction purchases easier, because no seller wants to let dozens of protentional buyers handle their game just to verify that it's genuine.  

At the end of the day, it all comes down to trust.  Everyone in the market needs to trust the grading company to offer fair and accurate grades in order for the system to work.  In the past the biggest trust issues with VGA were the lack of transparency in who was grading the games.  When WATA was first announced, most people were excited because ON PAPER, it sounded like they would fix all the issues that people had with VGA.  Unfortunately, WATA has brought in their own issues which could break trust in the industry.  It's still too early to know what impact this will have in the long run.  

Edit:  I am not a graded game or WATA defender, which should be obvious from my previous posts.  I'm just trying to answer the question honestly, and provide an answer from the perspective of a person who isn't a big fan of grading but understands why the practice exists.  

 

Edited September 9, 2021 by TDIRunner

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

9 minutes ago, spacepup said:

Really, just the establishment and the documented process / system / infrastructure.  There are many of us who have been doing this a long time.  For example, I know that jonebone has been into sealed games for many many years, and I would put him up there with anyone else in terms of experience and ability to grade games.  It just so happens that he isn't part of a company that does so or doesn't have the interest in it.

There are many *individuals* who could do a perfectly fine job of grading.  It is the company, systems, quality control, and process, that enable grading to work.  And with enough marketing and credibility, as soon as said company gains enough consumer confidence, it's go time.  And this is what happened with WATA.  Regardless of how anyone feels about them as a company or the actions / HA stuff / etc., one thing I will give them credit for, is that they did a REALLY good job of quickly gaining credibility and consumer confidence.  They were very smart about how they started out, and went all out in terms of the technology, quality of the product itself, professional appeal, etc.  

Essentially, the "authority" is given to them / earned with consumer appeal and confidence.  Once people start using and recognizing the service as the authority, that's when they have it.

Personally, I don't really care about someone else's opinion of the quality of my game.  What I care about is my own opinion of the game and how good it looks to me and how happy I am with it. 

To use your example, if I had the knowledge and know-how that Jone has, I wouldn't be sending my games off to graded, as I'd already feel like I'm a better judge of the condition than some unknown graders. So it still really doesn't make sense to me. 

However, I will say your explanation of how they gained authority etc does make sense to me, at least from a more average joe gamer perspective. 

I guess I just don't get why someone else's opinion on the condition of a game matters so much to people. 

[3rdStrongestMole | 430]

28 minutes ago, CodysGameRoom said:

Can someone answer this question? I am being serious. What gives someone at VGA, WATA, etc the authority to grade a game? Like, why are their opinions on the grade of a game taken seriously? Because they are employed with a grading company? If I'm a long time collector, why is their opinion and grade of a game considered more important than my own?

It just doesn't make much sense to me. If I had tons of money I could start a grading company right now. I'm just a collector like these guys were. I'm no different. So I just don't really get why their opinions on the condition of a game are considered more worthy. 

2 things maybe... People don't like ambiguity,  they like definitive things. A grading company does not necessarily have more knowledge or authority than another individual or group of people within collecting, but they're putting a number to something, which has the feeling of objectivity. 

A dollar is worth something because someone said it was, and then everyone agreed with that person. Maybe there are people out there that are like "fuck dollars, that's just a piece of paper". But the general consensus is a dollar has value. 

So, it could be a many vs few mentality also. If one dude was grading everything by himself,  it might be a problem.  But since it's a company people can believe that it means something more.

And for what it's worth, if 10 hardcore collectors on this site got together and graded a game, I think that grade would be valued, too. 

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

3 minutes ago, Gulag Joe said:

A tamper proof container to keep my game in the assigned grade builds trust in the item. Otherwise, I'd get your opinion and just change the grade to a 10, regardless of what you say, and then people be like "why did codysgameroom grade this hunk of garbage covered in mold a 10?"

Well, A, don't people crack these cases all the time? So not really tamper proof. and B), i've heard people say you can get acrylic cases to put your games in if you want to do that. C) people second guess grades from grading companies all the time, so what's really the difference?

[spacepup | 2,404]

Well for that, I think there are many reasons.  Some do it because they think it looks nice/cool, some do it because they believe it will protect the item and certify its authenticity.  Some do it because they think it will hold or increase value.  Some do it to showoff to people.  I mean, there are a number of reasons why other people want to grade their games.

It isn't for me at all.  None of the above items is really a motivation for me, but obviously it is for some.  I imagine people can provide other reasons as well.

If people can be reasonable and not attack others - it would actually be a good discussion question to people who grade.  If they can be totally honest and open - "what interests you about grading and why do you get your games graded?"  I imagine we'd see a number of different perspectives on it.

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

@TDIRunner Thank you for the insight. What you are saying makes sense to me. I think the lack of transparency in WHO is grading the games is huge. 

@3rdStrongestMole Your post makes sense to me, but even so, I could assign a definitive number to games in my own collection. But I do get your point.

5 minutes ago, spacepup said:

there are a number of reasons why other people want to grade their games.

This is a great point. I tend to think from an "owning the game" perspective and not the selling, investing perspective etc. 

 

6 minutes ago, spacepup said:

I imagine we'd see a number of different perspectives on it.

I'm most interested in this.

 

Anyway, thank you all, even @Gulag Joe. I'd much rather show off a game in this community and get compliments, if that's the goal, then pay someone money to say "yep, it looks good, here's a number for ya". 

[GPX | 1,369]

1 hour ago, CodysGameRoom said:

Why does it need to be graded and slabbed to get a 3rd party opinion on the condition of the game? Pretty sure people can and do post photos of games here all the time to get 3rd party opinions, for free. What you are saying already happens without grading and slabbing. So that answer doesn't really do it for me. 

I’m a CIB/MIB/sealed/new-nonsealed/graded collector. I consider myself very open-minded on the subject of collecting and I enjoy the different aspect of collecting with sealed and graded games.

To answer your question about graded games, as a collector, I try to get the best condition I possibly can for certain games. The best way to do this is via a graded game because there is a level of objectivity that is unmatched when compared with Ebay or other online purchases.

Every seller online likes to call their games “mint”, “near mint” or “like-new”.  So without a well-recognised third party grader, I won’t really have a clue which seller has a genuine mint condition game that I’m actually after. Online pictures can only give you clues up to a certain extent, but will likely not show the true extent of minor wear, tear or fading.

There are of course other reasons why I like graded stuff for certain games, like preservation of condition and they’re also great as display pieces. Investing is another reason also, I won’t lie, but it’s not my main intent, I see that more as a bonus if they do go up in value. I’m living proof not all sealed collectors are investment pimps, as I’ve been on VGS for 2 years and have not once try to sell anyone any of my games.

Edited September 9, 2021 by GPX

[Gulag Joe | 582]

I slabbed my games because I like the idea of preserving them in an attractive case with a grade assigned to them and it makes for an easier method to sell and get the maximum value out of them (if I ever decide to sell).

My other thought for grading is the long term. I'm not going to live forever, so when my time comes, those games will be ready to either be displayed or sold with ease for my next of kin:

"My great grandfather waited 14 years to get these games back from Wata and they originally told him it would only be 145 business days"

Edited September 9, 2021 by Gulag Joe

[phart010 | 1,707]

1 hour ago, CodysGameRoom said:

Why does it need to be graded and slabbed to get a 3rd party opinion on the condition of the game? Pretty sure people can and do post photos of games here all the time to get 3rd party opinions, for free. What you are saying already happens without grading and slabbing. So that answer doesn't really do it for me. 

Grading of merchandise is one of the telltale signs that the collectibility factor of that category of merchandise has been commercialized. Basically people want to sell the collectibility, not the merch itself. You cannot sell the collectibility factor unless all parties involved in the transaction  can agree on what that collectibility factor is. The way to get everyone to agree on the collectibility factor is to assign a grade to it. They slab it so that the grade stays permanent. If it’s not slabbed, any mishandling or damage of the merch would cause the assigned grade to be misrepresented.

Grading authorities are considered the authorities because of the volume of games that they graded according to their scale. You could have your own grading scale, but if you only grade your own collection of 500-5000 games, it doesn’t mean much. If VGA has 5 million plus games out in circulation that were all graded relatively consistently according to their scale then it becomes a much more mainstream and trusted grading scale.

If you are traveling and your options are McDonalds and Bills Hot Dogs, you’d probably choose McDonalds. Because of the consistency. You know what your getting yourself into.

[GPX | 1,369]

26 minutes ago, phart010 said:

Grading of merchandise is one of the telltale signs that the collectibility factor of that category of merchandise has been commercialized. Basically people want to sell the collectibility, not the merch itself. You cannot sell the collectibility factor unless all parties involved in the transaction  can agree on what that collectibility factor is. The way to get everyone to agree on the collectibility factor is to assign a grade to it. They slab it so that the grade stays permanent. If it’s not slabbed, any mishandling or damage of the merch would cause the assigned grade to be misrepresented.

Grading authorities are considered the authorities because of the volume of games that they graded according to their scale. You could have your own grading scale, but if you only grade your own collection of 500-5000 games, it doesn’t mean much. If VGA has 5 million plus games out in circulation that were all graded relatively consistently according to their scale then it becomes a much more mainstream and trusted grading scale.

If you are traveling and your options are McDonalds and Bills Hot Dogs, you’d probably choose McDonalds. Because of the consistency. You know what your getting yourself into.

Just on this, I think people are too caught up on the literal use of “Authority” in VGA (Video Game Authority). VGA is merely just a company name. No one is calling them “the authority”, but due to many years of reasonably consistent performance, they were the first trusted grading company for video games by sealed collectors. WATA now being the second, regardless of what controversies there are.

[inasuma | 1,203]

4 hours ago, AnimalHouse said:

Could be OCD. Like a love/hate relationship.

Pretty much. Insanely challenging but in other ways very rewarding. 

[inasuma | 1,203]

1 hour ago, Gulag Joe said:

"My great grandfather waited 14 years to get these games back from Wata and they originally told him it would only be 145 business days"

wtf you got them back in only 14 years? I'm chillin on year 41 bruh. You got it easy.

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

41 minutes ago, phart010 said:

If you are traveling and your options are McDonalds and Bills Hot Dogs, you’d probably choose McDonalds. Because of the consistency. You know what your getting yourself into.

I was with you until this. No way I'm picking McDonalds. Always going to go with some local fare I've never heard of if I can! 

11 minutes ago, GPX said:

Just on this, I think people are too caught up on the literal use of “Authority” in VGA (Video Game Authority). VGA is merely just a company name. No one is calling them “the authority”, but due to many years of reasonably consistent performance, they were the first trusted grading company for video games by sealed collectors. WATA now being the second, regardless of what controversies there are

Well, I guess that's part of my point. What makes this person's opinion at VGA or WATA worth paying for? Obviously, other factors, like investors, sellers, etc. But from a collecting standpoint, it doesn't click with me.

 

[GPX | 1,369]

25 minutes ago, CodysGameRoom said:

I was with you until this. No way I'm picking McDonalds. Always going to go with some local fare I've never heard of if I can! 

Well, I guess that's part of my point. What makes this person's opinion at VGA or WATA worth paying for? Obviously, other factors, like investors, sellers, etc. But from a collecting standpoint, it doesn't click with me.

 

I’ve already explained it in the previous posts. If it doesn’t click with you, then it’s all cool. 

What it boils down to is the simple formula: people collect what they collect, and how they go about their hobby is how they go about. 

I don’t go around asking loose cart collectors why they collect full sets of loose carts. Or why CIB collectors don’t try to collect mint games instead. I appreciate all variants of collectors and I appreciate it when a collector finds joy in what they collect. This is the essence of what collecting is really all about.

[inasuma | 1,203]

1 hour ago, CodysGameRoom said:

I was with you until this. No way I'm picking McDonalds. Always going to go with some local fare I've never heard of if I can! 

Well, I guess that's part of my point. What makes this person's opinion at VGA or WATA worth paying for? Obviously, other factors, like investors, sellers, etc. But from a collecting standpoint, it doesn't click with me.

 

I think the point was that a grading outlet's track record and volume of items graded largely dictates the reliability of their "authority" (opinion) on the subject matter, and that consistency gives them a certain appeal to collectors. You don't need to pay for it or trust them. You can of course doubt their credentials. Everyone's opinion on that is valid tbh.

[Gulag Joe | 582]

1 hour ago, GPX said:

Just on this, I think people are too caught up on the literal use of “Authority” in VGA (Video Game Authority). VGA is merely just a company name. No one is calling them “the authority”, but due to many years of reasonably consistent performance, they were the first trusted grading company for video games by sealed collectors. WATA now being the second, regardless of what controversies there are.

Actually, both A's in wAtA stand for AUTHORITY

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

57 minutes ago, GPX said:

people collect what they collect, and how they go about their hobby is how they go about. 

Sure. But grading isn't collecting, let's be careful with our words here. Collecting is collecting. Grading is just spending money to determine the condition. Which anyone with a set of eyes can do.

22 minutes ago, inasuma said:

I think the point was that a grading outlet's track record and volume of items graded largely dictates the reliability of their "authority" (opinion) on the subject matter, and that consistency gives them a certain appeal to collectors. You don't need to pay for it or trust them. You can of course doubt their credentials. Everyone's opinion on that is valid tbh.

Fair enough. I still think you could get a good idea of condition by, ya know, looking at it, and if you want a second opinion, post here or other forums. But I guess you can't sell that for a million bucks, lol.

[Code Monkey | 2,008]

30 minutes ago, CodysGameRoom said:

Sure. But grading isn't collecting, let's be careful with our words here. Collecting is collecting. Grading is just spending money to determine the condition. Which anyone with a set of eyes can do.

Fair enough. I still think you could get a good idea of condition by, ya know, looking at it, and if you want a second opinion, post here or other forums. But I guess you can't sell that for a million bucks, lol.

I have a 8.5 here that I bet you couldn't tell from a 9.6.

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

6 minutes ago, Code Monkey said:

I have a 8.5 here that I bet you couldn't tell from a 9.6.

Fair enough but could Jone or any of the other sealed game experts here? You could get a good estimate from a legit EXPERT around here, throw it in a case, save yourself hundreds of dollars and months of waiting time.