Console Debate #34 Nintendo Switch

[Kguillemette | 1,544]

9/10. It is that good. I wish I could pry it from my kids hands to play it more.

[RegularGuyGamer | 2,013]

I think the Switch is not only a huge turn around from the Wii U, from the Wii, but even from the GameCube.

I see the switch as what the GameCube could've been. It tried to get the current 3rd party dev support and bring the heat with the first part games but ultimately pale in comparison to what the Switch brought to the game. 

Combining the handheld and the console market was a sure success but I don't think anyone could've predicted how successful it truly was in the form of the switch. 

9/10

[Brickman | 3,986]

18 hours ago, Reed Rothchild said:

10/10

I sincerely think it's the GOAT.  Not the SNES, which I grew up with and consider to hold many of history's greatest games.  Not the PS2, which has hundreds of great games.  Not the PS1, the SNES' successor.  Not the NES and Genesis,.which I hold great respect for.

Reason #1 - A killer lineup of in-house games.  Mario Odyssey and Breath of the Wild are two of their franchises' high points.  Naysayers be damned.

Reason #2 - The best 3rd party support Nintendo has had in decades.

Reason #3 - The overall strength of the library. 

What's the 100th best game on the SNES or NES or PS1?  Is is better than these?

 

What about 200th?  Is it better than these?

What about 300th?

400th?

500th?

600th?

700th?

800th?

I had to cut myself off there.

 

Reason #4 - Portability.  That's the trump card.  Why did I play my 3DS instead of get a PS4?  Because I don't have the luxury of sitting in front of my TV for very long at a time.  The Switch gives me the best of both worlds.

The mystery is solved in regards to the 9/10 for the SNES!

I agree on all points. The only thing I will say is that some of its library is built up of ports from the Wii U and older games so it loses 0.1 for a 9.9/10 for me.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,526]

4 minutes ago, Shmup said:

The mystery is solved in regards to the 9/10 for the SNES!

I agree on all points. The only thing I will say is that some of its library is built up of ports from the Wii U and older games so it loses 0.1 for a 9.9/10 for me.

Yeah, I mean, I LOVE the SNES.  A certain handful of its games will forever live in my top 25, and I collected and played the whole set for a reason.  But after about 50, 100, or 150 games, there isn't really any comparison between the libraries.  The Switch (and many newer consoles) just have so much to work with, especially with the booming indie scene, and all the stuff from talented Western developers who were mostly relegated to PC games back in the 90s.

And the crazy part is the Switch still has 3 or 4 years to stack it's library.

[chuppy44 | 56]

18 hours ago, DefaultGen said:

It has the PS2 thing of being underpowered and having a million games, but because we're in a much different era it doesn't have the exclusive library that the PS2 had (I literally can't think of any non-Nintendo exclusives). The constant rereleases have been a bummer as someone who would happily even just play rehashed sequels, like seriously just give me new NSMB or Captain Toad levels or make Bowser's Fury into a full game, not a side quest.

Joycons might be Nintendo's least ergonomic controller including the N64. They are a crampy bummer both using the Switch portably and if a friend hands you one for multiplayer instead of a real controller (or worse if you have to use it for multiplayer). The Pro controller is pretty great though.

It's definitely my least played Nintendo console ever. Outside of the marquee Nintendo games (the ones that aren't just remakes or ports) it has nothing for me personally since it's my last choice for multiplatform games and yet still is often the most expensive choice. This era of games in general isn't my favorite either. I get why it's the megahit blockbuster it is and I'm happy Nintendo is finally getting third party support it's lacked for 25 years.

I pretty much would echo this take. Switch has been like the console equivalent of a greatest hits album. It appears we've reached a point where there are so many great games, and where the evolution of games has stagnated so much, that a system can go through it's lifespan with almost nothing new on it and still be beloved.

Granted, Super Mario Odyssey is my favorite modern-era game and the best thing Nintendo put out since GC, but if not for that one game (which had no reason not to be on Wii U as well other than to force me to buy a Switch) I don't really have much of any reason to own a Switch.

I also don't think it sends a good message that Nintendo was punished for the relatively high effort they put into Wii U and rewarded so greatly for their lack of effort here, particularly considering that they don't even have multiple systems to support anymore. Think about that. They had to support both the Wii U and 3DS at the same time and both of them had a more substantial original library than Switch does or probably ever will.

[RegularGuyGamer | 2,013]

12 hours ago, chuppy44 said:

but if not for that one game (which had no reason not to be on Wii U as well other than to force me to buy a Switch) I don't really have much of any reason to own a Switch.

 

12 hours ago, chuppy44 said:

They had to support both the Wii U and 3DS at the same time and both of them had a more substantial original library than Switch does or probably ever will.

I think you're in the minority with these two hot takes. The 3DS and Wii U had a good libraries but the fact remains that there was shit for 3rd party support. Nothing like the Switch is seeing. 

The 3rd party support for both platforms came largely at the beginning of the.oife cycle and by the middle of each of those cycles Nintendo was carrying the release announcements.

The Wii U had literally zero 3rd party buzz and the 3rd was sporadic with it and when it had it was welcomed, but predictable. Like DQ VII & VIII, SMT series, Persona, Etrain Odyssey and a few other. 

Nintendo learned from the limitations of the 3DS, from the Gimmicks of the Wii U and 3DS and as a result produced a better product than the sum of the two previous generations.

[Sumez | 2,951]

I love the Switch, way more than I originally thought I would.

Being able to play any game handheld whenever I want is an incredible feature that immediately puts it above any of the competition for any individual game that runs well enough on the Switch. It didn't really have any decent exclusives for the first few years, but over time it's become worth getting for that as well.

It's brisk, simple and to the point. Not too much fluff in the interface like you see with other big modern consoles, though the online shop is frustratingly slow and laggy. I really love how you can put any game on standby and just return to it days later and keep playing right where you left it. Most Switch games I never see the title screen of more than once.

Also, solid state cards for physical releases gives it another point over its disc based competitors, I really hate mechanical media.

It's not completely immune to modern BS design though, with some games still requiring big patch downloads to even be playable, defeating the purpose of getting physical copies of those games.
There is also the issue with its laggy USB interface that is probably never going to fixed, so that's another big strike in its book.

8/10

[fox | 1,667]

Big Nintendo releases seem to only come out once in a blue moon and third party support is slagging, but luckily it has replaced the vita as the ideal indie machine.

Hardware is good but not amazing.  User interface and online are bare bones.  You totally need a better controller than a joy con.  The real feather in its cap is the portability.

[chuppy44 | 56]

10 hours ago, RegularGuyGamer said:

On 6/26/2021 at 11:15 PM, chuppy44 said:

 

I think you're in the minority with these two hot takes. The 3DS and Wii U had a good libraries but the fact remains that there was shit for 3rd party support. Nothing like the Switch is seeing. 

That was in the context of 1st party support. But even then, the 3rd party support is not relevant to me for as long as I can get a better version of every game on Steam or PS4. Something I can't say of 3DS.

[OptOut | 8,884]

I'm giving it an 8 right now, although that definitely has potential to increase over time. Everything that other people said is true, it's awesome in so many ways. I would have given it a 9 apart from one issue... I HAD to dock a point for the JoyCons I'm afraid.

I know that there are pro-controllers you can get etc. but I don't have those and I think it is fair to judge a system based on the default controllers you get in the box, especially when they are also used for multiplayer (even if I DID want a Pro Controller I'm not buying 4 of the things).

The JoyCons, frankly, are the worst 1st party Nintendo controllers ever I think. Both my original Left and Right Joycons are broken. The Left has analogue drift, the Right has broken shoulder buttons. This has NEVER happened to me with any other Nintendo controller through normal use.

Even when they are NOT broken, the analogue stick is simply WAY too small, and I am always walking in the wrong direction, it's so easy to accidentally be pushing down and left or down and right or some other non-cardinal direction with them, it's super annoying.

If they released a PRO SWITCH with like better designed JoyCons, that DIDN'T suck, then I would call it a 9, but that remains to be seen. I like the IDEA of the JoyCons, and having multiplayer out the box, but the implementation is sorely lacking IMO.

[spacepup | 2,404]

I LOVE the Switch and gave it a 9.  

I'm not at all a Nintendo fanboy - I have long been a bigger fan, both in terms of gaming and collecting, of PlayStation as opposed to Nintendo games and consoles, etc., for many years.

When I first heard of the switch, it sounded sort of gimmicky to me and I was tired of previous Nintendo features/gimmicks.  I knew I'd get one at some point, to play some of the big games.

After I got it, I was completely thrilled with the system, and the ease with which you can go back and forth between portable and docked mode.  I thought I'd only play it on the tv, but I easily use it about 50/50.  I remember my first trip out of town, and playing Xenoblade Chronicles 2 / Zelda BOTW on airplanes and at the hotel, was pretty awesome.  Even at home, I'll find myself in situations where I'll play portable sometimes.  

I'm just having a ton of fun with it, and that's the point to me - having fun.  There are TONS of great games, both in physical form and in the e-shop, with crazy indie presence and more.  So for that reason, I think it is cool for both collectors, and also people who just want to play games.  There are sales ALL the time on the eshop, and you can get some great games for very affordable amounts.

I have the pro controller, which I mainly use.  I don't care for the joycons, but I don't use them much (except....recently found out Mario Party you HAVE to, bleh).

Anyway, I think it's a lot more fun and versatile than I originally imagined, and I'm having a great time both single player and playing multi-player on game nights on more.  It's a great system, and way more than just a "port machine" like it gets criticized so much for.  

[RegularGuyGamer | 2,013]

9 hours ago, chuppy44 said:

Something I can't say of 3DS.

Considering the 3DS had some sick 3rd party support, neglecting it is a huge oversight. 

Ace Attorney, Monster Hunter, Dragon Quest, Processor Layton, Etrain Odyssey, SMT, Tales of Abyss, Bravely series, Zero Escape, hell even Yo Kai Watch. 

Omitting 3rd party 3DS games is an absolute crime. It had most quality 3rd party support in a decade of Nintendo consoles. 

[WhyNotZoidberg | 585]

9/10.

I don't like that some cross-platform games have performance issues, like MineCraft which my kid plays all the time, but other than that it's great. I'm probably the core target demographic for it lol.

[LeatherRebel5150 | 1,056]

On 6/26/2021 at 10:34 AM, Reed Rothchild said:

Can you play them on a handheld elsewhere?  Other than playing some of them on your phone or tablet with a shitty touchscreen?  Because that's the difference maker.  That's why the Wii U sold 15 million units and the Switch will sell 120-140 million plus.  

And people talk about ports like it's a bad thing.  There's already too many games to play.  No one is caught up.  Nobody.  But a handheld gives me (and many others) a more realistic path to getting there.

I don’t understand the hate towards ports either. I don’t think everyone here realizes how many Switches are in a single console household among other factors. You have to think theres at least a few million to maybe even 10’s of millions of kids who got this as their first console and dont have a PS4 to play indie games on. Hell Im a collector and I dont have a PS3/4 or Xbox’s or play on PC. These ports are completely new to me. I think its that scenario is way more common then people realize

[asmikace | 68]

Gave it a 9 since its so convenient to go between handheld and console. It also helps that gives Nintendo its niche that Microsoft and Sony doesn't want to compete in. Also it helps that the Switch is lower tech that doesn't require huge cost to produce a game for unlike the higher end consoles that is still reeling from Covid issues.

The only criticism I can give it is Joycon drift, which I never had but awful for people who have it, and that Nintendo gets complacent when they get successful. I wish they had some motivation to improve the system menu and store since its so clunky especially now that so many games are available to it.

Also I want either a N64 games to be on the system. I would pay money to play Ogre Battle 64 on the go right now.

[Californication | 1,477]

1 hour ago, LeatherRebel5150 said:

I don’t understand the hate towards ports either. I don’t think everyone here realizes how many Switches are in a single console household among other factors. You have to think theres at least a few million to maybe even 10’s of millions of kids who got this as their first console and dont have a PS4 to play indie games on. Hell Im a collector and I dont have a PS3/4 or Xbox’s or play on PC. These ports are completely new to me. I think its that scenario is way more common then people realize

We differentiated between good and bad ports.

A bad port for someone that has played the game before and is expecting to get the same feeling as the original game can make someone feel like they have wasted their of money.

A bad port for someone who had never played the game can make someone think a game is not as good as it actually is.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,526]

1 hour ago, Californication said:

We differentiated between good and bad ports.

A bad port for someone that has played the game before and is expecting to get the same feeling as the original game can make someone feel like they have wasted their of money.

A bad port for someone who had never played the game can make someone think a game is not as good as it actually is.

That's not what people are criticizing.

Like, one of the Switch E3 announcements was the Danganronpa trilogy.  I call that a big win.  But for people who already played it on PS4 or whatever, it's just yet another port, and they're whining because they only want brand new games (because there isn't enough stuff they haven't played yet floating around or anything).

Meanwhile, people like me, who have cleared a 1000+ games, but still haven't had time to get to Danganronpa, are thrilled because it's being delivered on a platter for me.  Cue the rejoicing.

[Gloves | 11,777]

6 minutes ago, Reed Rothchild said:

That's not what people are criticizing.

Like, one of the Switch E3 announcements was the Danganronpa trilogy.  I call that a big win.  But for people who already played it on PS4 or whatever, it's just yet another port, and they're whining because they only want brand new games (because there isn't enough stuff they haven't played yet floating around or anything).

Meanwhile, people like me, who have cleared a 1000+ games, but still haven't had time to get to Danganronpa, are thrilled because it's being delivered on a platter for me.  Cue the rejoicing.

The more places to play Danganronpa, the better.

[peg | 370]

Contra for NES is the best port of all time.  Prove me wrong.

[Strikezone1 | 154]

I gave it a 9. It's great.

I'm a retro (80s/90s) gamer through & through, and this is the first console I've put any serious time into in many many years since I got one for my kids this past Xmas. It's a lot of fun.

[Andy_Bogomil | 815]

Great device with lots of potential. I only gave it a 6/10 for the time being. It'll likely go up as more games get released but with the reprint of Wii u titles and the poor build quality of the console I had knock it down a few points. I also wish there were more VC options like GC and 64... The games are 20 years old.. time to open it up. 

Very fun for ports and what is there for classic games. With a few more releases it could easily be an 8 or even 9 in my book. 

[DefaultGen | 5,405]

2 hours ago, peg said:

Contra for NES is the best port of all time.  Prove me wrong.

The NES version is too cheap to include the VRC2 chip of the Famicom version, so by the power of wiggly trees and backgrounds I prove you wrong.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,526]

4 minutes ago, Andy_Bogomil said:

Great device with lots of potential. I only gave it a 6/10 for the time being. It'll likely go up as more games get released but with the reprint of Wii u titles and the poor build quality of the console I had knock it down a few points. I also wish there were more VC options like GC and 64... The games are 20 years old.. time to open it up. 

Very fun for ports and what is there for classic games. With a few more releases it could easily be an 8 or even 9 in my book. 

Gotta extrapolate.  We'll get:  Breath of the Wild 2, 1-3 other random Zeldas (Cadence 2?), Prime 4 (probably), Dread, Trilogy (maybe), 1-3 more mediocre Mario sports games, 2-5 more other Mario games (fuck knows what), some crappy Star Fox game probably, 20-30 more Pokemon games, Bayonetta 3, 1-2 other Platinum titles, Mega Ten 5, Splatoon 3, probably another Animal Crossing and/or another Fire Emblem, Advance Wars, whatever the Odyssey team is working on, Project Unwieldy Triangle Name, No More Heroes III, Rune Factory 5, some bullshit game that Level 5 wastes their time on, Monster Hunter Stories 2, whatever those new Resident Evil games are, a Monster Hunter Rise asset recycle, The Great Ace Attorney, and a million and a half JRPGs, and two and a half million ports.

[Brickman | 3,986]

18 minutes ago, Andy_Bogomil said:

Great device with lots of potential. I only gave it a 6/10 for the time being. It'll likely go up as more games get released but with the reprint of Wii u titles and the poor build quality of the console I had knock it down a few points. I also wish there were more VC options like GC and 64... The games are 20 years old.. time to open it up. 

Very fun for ports and what is there for classic games. With a few more releases it could easily be an 8 or even 9 in my book. 

Obviously these are all opined based but the library is already pretty packed without counting the upcoming releases. I think we've hit over 800 games for the system or close to. How many more games are you needing? It already has heaps of great games.

Definitely agree on the poor build quality for the joycons. I think it was a case of do we cheap out on some parts and sell it a little lower then the competitors or do we spend a bit more and price it higher and potentially risk another Wii U. 

[Tanooki | 4,933]

6 hours ago, LeatherRebel5150 said:

I don’t understand the hate towards ports either. I don’t think everyone here realizes how many Switches are in a single console household among other factors. You have to think theres at least a few million to maybe even 10’s of millions of kids who got this as their first console and dont have a PS4 to play indie games on. Hell Im a collector and I dont have a PS3/4 or Xbox’s or play on PC. These ports are completely new to me. I think its that scenario is way more common then people realize

Older gamer entitlement syndrome, point blank, end of story.  Those who whine, they're aware of the games because they're from another generation or another system.  They want more, they want unique, they don't want another copy.  They only care as far as their own personal self serving thoughts go and no further before finding reason to get offended, then get loud about being offended.  That's how it is now depressingly, well beyond games into politics, overblown social issues, making hay about stuff usually the so-called victims tend not to give a damn about, but someone just has to whine.

In this case, for instance, that issue may be something like Dark Souls on Switch or Mario 3D All Stars.  Two great choices, both hammered relentlessly when they came out by trolls bitching about how they're barely upgraded, don't so call do much better, lacking in some way, they're just lazy/passable ports, wasted efforts those teams could have put money and people into to do some so called envisioned next best project so basically F them.  Great...perhaps the problem is not them but *YOU* perhaps some 30s-40s something potential neckbeard who has owned at least 1-3 copies of said games since they came out years if not decades ago.  It's not like the world stopped fucking and having kids, or that some people who hadn't the time 10 years ago, or never had 'that' system but have access on this now does have games for the first time.  For you it's old hat, but for everyone bitchin there's probably 10 more potential and actually realized purchases of said game for those having their FIRST EXPERIENCE.

That's largely what the Switch does.  I never had access for instance to Dark Souls, my first touch of it was the Switch, same with also Skyrim.  Hell of a first play and no complaints, especially the whiner crap about it being old...and?  It's my first chance, but also, even if I had them on PS3 at that time, I couldn't carry that around away from the TV as if the PS3 was pocketable now was it?  That's the Switch... new experiences period, new experiences for millions of younger or missed opportunity gamers, and also something for those wanting such gems on the go, and yeah even those just wanting to return to a world of the past whether they still own the old copy or not anymore.  ...and then there's the failed WiiU stuff carried over so it properly got recognition and meaningful profits too, but that's an unique road to go down I'm not.