Console Debate #26 Super Nintendo/Super Famicom

[fcgamer | 4,723]

13 minutes ago, FenrirZero said:

According to Wikipedia, 978. Which fits more three scores for both the SFC (9) and SNES (7-8). The U.S. had 111, Europe had 34, and Canada had 0. Which is the same number of games I would own graded if I did not have CAS as an option.

978 Japanese exclusives, you mean?

[YOURTURN | 1,256]

28 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

978 Japanese exclusives, you mean?

Yup. 

[MegaMan52 | 2,445]

I gave it an 8/10, but...I think my actual rating for it would be 9/10, the same rating I gave the GameCube.

I like the NES a little more, but the SNES would probably still rank 3rd in my top 10 game systems (second favorite is the original Game Boy). Some of my favorite games for it are Super Mario RPG, Super Mario Kart (which is actually my favorite game in the series), the Donkey Kong Country trilogy, Killer Instinct, Mega Man 7, the Mega Man X games, Star Fox (and Star Fox 2, even though I've only played it on Switch and not a reproduction for SNES), Stunt Race FX, Kirby's Dream Course, Battletoads in Battlemaniacs, and Pac-Man 2: The New Adventures.

I rented Yoshi's Island a lot 20 or so years ago and have fond memories playing it, though I've had the GBA version for several years now and kind of prefer it because it has 6 extra levels. At least I can play it play it on a GameCube with a Game Boy Player and Hori Digital Controller to sort of recreate my experience playing the SNES version.

The soundtracks to a lot of SNES games are pretty enjoyable in my opinion. I have the Donkey Kong Country soundtracks on CD and Cassette:

Also, I like the SNES version of Mortal Kombat more than the Genesis version. It may have censored Fatalities, but it otherwise looks and sounds closer to being like the Arcade version.

[Vectrex28 | 366]

9/10

If the PC Engine didn't win my heart I'd give it a 10. I mean Super Metroid is probably the closest gaming has ever been to perfection, and is my second favourite game of all time.

And aside from that there are so many gems on this system such as Kirby Super Star, Mario World, Link to the Past, Metal Warriors, Chrono Trigger, FF6, etc.

On the other hand, while it has some of the best games ever made, for each gem you get 5 pieces of rancid shovelware. It'd also have been a 10 if it didn't have such a high concentration of unplayable messes such as all those shitty football games or especially crappy licensed games

[Tanooki | 4,933]

I bought my first SNES game in years over the weekend, found a better than online price for Axelay.  I've never owned it or played it before, so refreshing.  The reason I'm doing this here, than in the pickup thread we have, it relates.

I can't have rose tinted beer goggles or the rest over a game I never once saw in action or touched, beginning and ending in screen caps in NP mag and a few stories online in passing.  I'm amazed at what it did to tease the features the SNES was notably singularly known for and quite well.  It's fast, incredible trickery with the background rolling mode7 visuals, solid audio too.  Konami did wonders on that given the year and warming up from learning from Gradius III and Super Castlevania for sure.  Still 30 years later the system is surprising me, really backs up the rating I gave it, that's for certain.

[WhyNotZoidberg | 585]

I see many comments saying that the ratio of good vs bad games in the SNES library is suboptimal. The same could be said of the Atari 2600, the PS2, the Wii, the DS/3DS and GBA before it. And let's not forget home computers while we're at it.

When a console has such an important install base, shovelware comes with the territory and I really can't see why people would make that argument at all. 

There's just no way around it. And why do these consoles have such a huge penetration rate to begin with? Because the library contains a wide selection of some of the best games ever made.

An opposite example would be the Dreamcast. It's line-up is very robust for its time, but were it objectively one of the greatest consoles ever Sega would still be in the hardware business.

Edited May 10, 2021 by WhyNotZoidberg
details and grammar

[TDIRunner | 2,735]

34 minutes ago, WhyNotZoidberg said:

I see many comments saying that the ratio of good vs bad games in the SNES library is suboptimal. The same could be said of the Atari 2600, the PS2, the Wii, the DS/3DS and GBA before it. And let's not forget home computers while we're at it.

When a console has such an important install base, shovelware comes with the territory and I really can't see why people would make that argument at all. 

There's just no way around it. And why do these consoles have such a huge penetration rate to begin with? Because the library contains a wide selection of some of the best game ever made.

An opposite example would be the Dreamcast. It's line-up is very robust for its time, but were it objectively one of the greatest consoles ever Sega would still be in the hardware business.

I've tried to make a similar argument in the past.  A console cannot be fairly rated based just on the amount of shovelware.  Otherwise, the Wii U becomes one of the greatest consoles of all time. 

[fox | 1,667]

4 hours ago, WhyNotZoidberg said:

I see many comments saying that the ratio of good vs bad games in the SNES library is suboptimal. The same could be said of the Atari 2600, the PS2, the Wii, the DS/3DS and GBA before it. And let's not forget home computers while we're at it.

I mean nobody can deny that on the NES for every Zelda you have like 4 Silver Surfer tier titles.

But that is kind throwing the baby out with the bath water in order to perceive the catalogue as worse than it really is.

[Californication | 1,477]

After finishing Contra and Kickmaster this week, I am really reminded the Nes is better than the Snes. Yes, the snes is a 16-bit console with better graphics and a ton of great titles. But the Nes has many super difficult games that while generally relatively short are superior because the level design and difficulty require many deaths to master.

Edited May 10, 2021 by Californication

[fcgamer | 4,723]

3 hours ago, fox said:

I mean nobody can deny that on the NES for every Zelda you have like 4 Silver Surfer tier titles.

You know, a lot of people like Silver Surfer...

[Dr. Morbis | 2,088]

3 hours ago, fox said:

I mean nobody can deny that on the NES for every Zelda you have like 4 Silver Surfer tier titles.

Silver Surfer is an awesome game; at least use a universally disliked game for your example, like Wayne's World or something.  Just because AVGN makes a video about a game, it doesn't mean it's bad...

[fcgamer | 4,723]

1 hour ago, Dr. Morbis said:

Silver Surfer is an awesome game; at least use a universally disliked game for your example, like Wayne's World or something.  Just because AVGN makes a video about a game, it doesn't mean it's bad...

I think that's another difference between the NES/Famicom and SNES/SFC: the difficulty.

Even back in the day, my brother and I felt that the games on the SNES were waaaay too easy compared to the NES versions. With the NES, even as kids, you could progress nicely after practice and experimentation, and it sure did feel good, sort of like that moment after you are finished climbing a hill whilst cycling.

On SNES, everything just felt so much easier, to the point where it was too forgiving.

[fox | 1,667]

4 hours ago, fcgamer said:

You know, a lot of people like Silver Surfer...

Some people like Troddlers.  Are you saying it is better than A Link To The Past?

 

[fcgamer | 4,723]

1 minute ago, fox said:

Some people like Troddlers.  Are you saying it is better than A Link To The Past?

 

Never played Troddlers, never played A Link to the Past. I actually bought A Link to the Past for the GBA (the remake was on GBA, right?) but after popping it in once or twice, had little interest and sold the game. I did happily play through both the NES Zelda games, as well as the original b/w (and later the GBC remake) of Link's Awakening.

It's the music and the graphics dude, they're just not my cup of tea at all.

[fox | 1,667]

2 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

It's the music and the graphics dude, they're just not my cup of tea at all.

Gameplay is near identical from Link to the Past to Link's Awakening.  Way to be a graphics whore

[Robot_Ninjutsu | 122]

I actually preferred the gameplay improvements made in "Link's Awakening" over "A Link to the Past". Namely, the ability to raise the shield on your own, and being able to assign weapons to A or B.

I really, really missed being able to raise the shield.

[Sumez | 2,949]

6 hours ago, Californication said:

After finishing Contra and Kickmaster this week, I am really reminded the Nes is better than the Snes. Yes, the snes is a 16-bit console with better graphics and a ton of great titles. But the Nes has many super difficult games that while generally relatively short are superior because the level design and difficulty require many deaths to master.

While I do think the SNES lacks certain games the NES has (and Kickmaster especially is a good example of those school of games) I wouldn't knock the SNES based entirely on this experience.

I mean, Contra 3 is hands down the best game in the already strong Contra series, possibly the best in the genre. Played on hard mode, it's the ultimate arcade-style run'n'gun experience.

And I do think games like Majyuuou, Hagane, Cybernator, and of course Super Ghouls n Ghosts scratch that itch you're talking about very, very well.

[Sumez | 2,949]

4 hours ago, Dr. Morbis said:

Silver Surfer is an awesome game; at least use a universally disliked game for your example, like Wayne's World or something.  Just because AVGN makes a video about a game, it doesn't mean it's bad...

Having just played Silver Surfer for the Survivor challenges on this forum, I can confirm - Silver Surfer is indeed very bad.

It has some fun ideas that could at the very least be very enjoyable, but it has several absolutely unforgivable qualities, most notably the abysmal collision detection. And if it hadn't had that, it would probably have been too easy to be interesting at all, so it's probably beyond redemption even with a rom hack.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,521]

36 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

never played A Link to the Past

Ok, I think we're done here.

[fcgamer | 4,723]

1 minute ago, Reed Rothchild said:

Ok, I think we're done here.

Different games for different folks. There's tons of people that have no interest in playing that game, has nothing to do with whether they hold valid gamer opinions or not.

You have never played Lin Banned the Opium, which is an amazing game, so yeah, we probably are done with this discussion.

As said earlier, SNEZ sucks.

[Sumez | 2,949]

15 hours ago, Tanooki said:

I bought my first SNES game in years over the weekend, found a better than online price for Axelay.  I've never owned it or played it before, so refreshing.  The reason I'm doing this here, than in the pickup thread we have, it relates.

I can't have rose tinted beer goggles or the rest over a game I never once saw in action or touched, beginning and ending in screen caps in NP mag and a few stories online in passing.  I'm amazed at what it did to tease the features the SNES was notably singularly known for and quite well.  It's fast, incredible trickery with the background rolling mode7 visuals, solid audio too.  Konami did wonders on that given the year and warming up from learning from Gradius III and Super Castlevania for sure.  Still 30 years later the system is surprising me, really backs up the rating I gave it, that's for certain.

It really doesn't need to be said, but let's say it anyway, this is obviously the way to rate any console in general.

If I were to rate the SNES or any other system (the PC Engine? I didn't even get into that library until after 2000) based on the games I had as a kid, rented or borrowed from friends, my impression of its qualities would be incredibly biased, and governed almost entirely by circumstance. Not really representative of what it actually has to offer.

As a big nerd video game enthusiast, my insight into games has only continued to grow the longer I've been into this hobby, and discovering "new" games for any system is exactly what makes them grow and show off their worth. Several of my favourite games for the SNES are games I never ran into as a kid outside of magazine coverage (like Ninja Warriors Again or Super Metroid) or import exclusives that were virtually impossible to even experience (Final Fantasy VI, Chrono Trigger, Super Mario RPG, etc.), and those are definitely games that help cement the platform as one of my top favourites of all timie.

Edited May 11, 2021 by Sumez

[YOURTURN | 1,256]

22 minutes ago, Robot_Ninjutsu said:

I actually preferred the gameplay improvements made in "Link's Awakening" over "A Link to the Past". Namely, the ability to raise the shield on your own, and being able to assign weapons to A or B.

I really, really missed being able to raise the shield.

Ditto here. The only thing that has me like "A Link to the Past" a bit more is both how the game begins (prior to the main quest stuff) and the music. The rest has "Link's Awakening" win with the gameplay and be equal with everything else.

[Robot_Ninjutsu | 122]

I did like that beginning in the rain.  But I have to be honest and admit I've never actually finished "A Link to the Past".  I rented or borrowed, but I couldn't get very far. I owned it, but never played it.

Link's Awakening? I conquered that one.  I finished that game without the Guide, no notes, and small tidbits of info from Nintendo Power. The 8th dungeon was a friggin pain flying blind.

 

As for the SNES itself.  I can't score the system without remembering that the SNES era is where I ended up disliking Nintendo as a company.  But even as someone who will profess endless love for the Genesis, I can say this:

1. Turtles in Time > Hyperstone Heist

2. The US redesign of the SNES is ugly, ugly, ugly. But that Super Famicom/PAL SNES is a one sexy beast.

[fcgamer | 4,723]

27 minutes ago, Sumez said:

It really doesn't need to be said, but let's say it anyway, this is obviously the way to rate any console in general.

If I were to rate the SNES or any other system (the PC Engine? I didn't even get into that library until after 2000) based on the games I had as a kid, rented or borrowed from friends, my impression of its qualities would be incredibly biased, and governed almost entirely by circumstance. Not really representative of what it actually has to offer.

As a big nerd video game enthusiast, my insight into games has only continued to grow the longer I've been into this hobby, and discovering "new" games for any system is exactly what makes them grow and show off their worth. Several of my favourite games for the SNES are games I never ran into as a kid outside of magazine coverage (like Ninja Warriors Again or Super Metroid) or import exclusives that were virtually impossible to even experience (Final Fantasy VI, Chrono Trigger, Super Mario RPG, etc.), and those are definitely games that help cement the platform as one of my top favourites of all timie.

I totally agree, which relates to the 700+ famicom exclusives, as well as the rest of the titles I never played as a child.

But to take this a different direction, why did the cd-i score so low? How many here gave it and the software genuinely a fair shake before rating...

[Sumez | 2,949]

1 minute ago, fcgamer said:

why did the cd-i score so low?

Because the entire library is garbage.

Look, I love the cd-i personally, but I'm not going to lie to myself.