Console Debate #26 Super Nintendo/Super Famicom

[fcgamer | 4,722]

34 minutes ago, Sumez said:

Because the entire library is garbage.

Look, I love the cd-i personally, but I'm not going to lie to myself.

That sounds very, very familiar, only replace cd-i with SNES.

I was having a conversation back in January with a good friend and the cd-i came up. His thoughts behind it are so much different than what I've been seeing here, and personally I trust his thoughts more on the matter.

The idea that the "whole library is garbage" and statements like that raise red flags, when not related to SNES.

[Sumez | 2,934]

Pretty amusing you're posting those screenshots, yet nothing that indicated which game(s?) the person is talking about

Also, why do you insist on discussing CD-i in the SNES thread, and SNES in the CD-i thread?

If you honestly believe good games exist on the CD-i, the least you could do is suggest what a mythical game that could possibly be.
And ideally do it in the CD-i thread.

I'd definitely buy into a reasonable point'n'click adventure working on that console, rather than a beat'em up or racing game, but I've never run into anything interesting outside of superfluous ports.

Edited May 11, 2021 by Sumez

[fcgamer | 4,722]

3 minutes ago, Sumez said:

Pretty amusing you're posting those screenshots, yet nothing that indicated which game(s?) the person is talking about

That's because I don't have a machine yet, but when I get one, I don't want to be priced out over the games that were recommended to me

[Sumez | 2,934]

Now I know for sure you're just intentionally trolling.

"The CD-i is great! Great games exist on it. But I can't tell you which, it's a secret"

Edited May 11, 2021 by Sumez

[fcgamer | 4,722]

3 minutes ago, Sumez said:

Now I know for sure you're just intentionally trolling.

"The CD-i is great! Great games exist on it. But I can't tell you which, it's a secret"

Nope, not at all, dead serious here. I always keep such things close to my chest, until I obtain them myself.

[OptOut | 8,883]

1 hour ago, Sumez said:

Now I know for sure you're just intentionally trolling.

Wait, was anyone in any doubt of this? 

[Californication | 1,477]

9 hours ago, Sumez said:

While I do think the SNES lacks certain games the NES has (and Kickmaster especially is a good example of those school of games) I wouldn't knock the SNES based entirely on this experience.

I mean, Contra 3 is hands down the best game in the already strong Contra series, possibly the best in the genre. Played on hard mode, it's the ultimate arcade-style run'n'gun experience.

And I do think games like Majyuuou, Hagane, Cybernator, and of course Super Ghouls n Ghosts scratch that itch you're talking about very, very well.

The games where you need to know where every enemy is at have a presence on the Snes, but their home is on the Nes.

I actually like Contra 3 the least among the 8 and 16 bit games. I had Contra lll growing up and loved it, but I think the Nes games are better as a straight forward run & gun's; and I think Contra Hard Corps which has similar set pieces, has better hit detection, level design, and controls. Not to say Contra lll has bad hit detection or controls, but the genesis game's seem better to me.

And if we are talking big set pieced run and gun, I would take Mega Turrican over both Contra's.

Edited May 11, 2021 by Californication

[Estil | 1,264]

8 hours ago, Sumez said:

Because the entire library is garbage.

Look, I love the cd-i personally, but I'm not going to lie to myself.

It's like the Apple Newton of the era...too much tech too soon makes it too expensive for most people to give it a fair chance, thus it doesn't really catch on.

Hence why no other "luxury consoles" were ever tried since.  Then again I'm not even sure what that would entail as the whole idea of the 90s luxury consoles was to do the whole multimedia experience thing and not just games and well, we've been able to do much of that that on a regular console since the PS3.

[TDIRunner | 2,731]

2 minutes ago, Estil said:

It's like the Apple Newton of the era...too much tech too soon makes it too expensive for most people to give it a fair chance, thus it doesn't really catch on.

Hence why no other "luxury consoles" were ever tried since.  Then again I'm not even sure what that would entail as the whole idea of the 90s luxury consoles was to do the whole multimedia experience thing and not just games and well, we've been able to do much of that that on a regular console since the PS3.

The PS3 was sort of a "luxury console" at launch.  It had a shit load of new tech and it was priced accordingly.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,514]

1 hour ago, Californication said:

And if we are talking big set pieced run and gun, I would take Mega Turrican over both Contra's

(every game mentioned is great)

[Sumez | 2,934]

Now I know for sure you guys are nuts  

[Californication | 1,477]

6 minutes ago, Reed Rothchild said:

(every game mentioned is great)

That's true. All of them are great, getting into the weeds a little. Now Super Turrican 2 and Mega Turrican is a tough match up - maybe a tie? Maybe Mega.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,514]

12 minutes ago, Sumez said:

Now I know for sure you guys are nuts  

Hey, I didn't actually say which SNES game I preferred.  I'll keep that a secret until I get to them. 

[OptOut | 8,883]

17 minutes ago, Reed Rothchild said:

Hey, I didn't actually say which SNES game I preferred.  I'll keep that a secret until I get to them. 

Goddamn, so many SECRETS piling up in this damn thread! Which SNES games are GOOD, tell us NOW! Who played a CD-I and actually liked it, I HAVE to KNOW!!! 

[ThePhleo | 2,184]

9.5 / 10

Only thing holding it back from a 10 is the fact that PS2 is the GOAT.

I can’t say anything about this console that hasn’t been said already. It’s Nintendo’s 2D masterpiece...no, actually it’s the 2D masterpiece of gaming history.

Edited May 11, 2021 by ThePhleo

[Reed Rothchild | 9,514]

22 minutes ago, OptOut said:

Goddamn, so many SECRETS piling up in this damn thread! Which SNES games are GOOD, tell us NOW! Who played a CD-I and actually liked it, I HAVE to KNOW!!! 

I think our secret kool kidz club needs a "Secrets" thread. 

Where we do secret stuff like uncovering the identity of fc's mystery magnum opus bootleg CDi Chinese medicine game.

Then we can corner the market on it and really stick it to him.

[Estil | 1,264]

8 hours ago, TDIRunner said:

The PS3 was sort of a "luxury console" at launch.  It had a shit load of new tech and it was priced accordingly.

It was their regular 7th gen offering.  It doesn't count.

[PII | 1,884]

My knowledge of the SNES library is far from comprehensive at this point, but generally, in my experience its always stood out as one that contains an astonishingly sparse percentage of total garbage.   Many other systems that I consider to be good/very good happen to have inspired an awful lot of rubbish alongside the good stuff.

The one big point I have against the SNES which has already been touched upon in this thread is that the high frequency of absolutely off the charts challenge factor from the previous 2 generations of gaming is largely absent.  There are lots of games that offer a challenge but very little like ghosts n goblins or Q*bert or hundreds more from the 2nd and 3rd gen.  

There was a literal handful of OG NES games I had in the heyday out of a few handfuls that I never beat as a kid, some I never even got close.  On the other hand I beat every single OG SNES game that I had as a kid.  There're certainly a few exceptions like Super GnG for example but they prove the rule.  Oh, and Silver Surfer is an awesome fun shmup!  Surfer just happens to have a really big hit box (just like the last mistake I made in the dating world - b'dmp, tsch!) and an occasional foreground/background indecipherability that can really only be learned with certainty the hard way.

[TDIRunner | 2,731]

2 hours ago, Estil said:

It was their regular 7th gen offering.  It doesn't count.

I really don't see why it wouldn't count.  It was a massive upgrade in technology over the previous console and included all sorts of extra stuff that wasn't completely necessary.  The Blue Ray player, the blue tooth connectivity, the memory card readers, the backward compatibility, even the start up music.  Everything about it was meant to be luxurious.  It was priced accordingly and it almost failed because of it.  Lots of cuts had to be made to help bring the price down, most notably the backwards compatibility and memory card readers.  In fact, if it wasn't a Sony console, I don't believe it would have survived until the price cuts that it eventually received.  It's the only luxury console to be successful, but it certainly wasn't successful right away.  

[Reed Rothchild | 9,514]

Hmm, as someone who has beat 400+ SNES games (and tried and failed to beat the other 300+) I wonder how true that is.

It probably is, to a degree.  SNES games are still tough, for the most part, but also longer.  So you don't need to pad things out with difficulty as much.

Not to say that there aren't a great many games that are super difficult.  Mega Man 7 is harder than 1-6.  Battletoads and Battlemaniacs are pretty much equals.  Super GnG is harder than GnG. 

But then again Zelda and Zelda II are much more difficult than LttP.  Ditto for Metroid and Punch Out. 

But the gap isn't huge.  If you think it is, try beating ZAMN, or Jim Power, or Final Fight, or Wacky Sports Challenge or Firepower 2000, or beating the true final boss of Contra III or Sparkster or Demons Crest.

And some shit is nearly impossible, like Cal Ripken or Championship Pool.  Not that anyone should be playing those.

Not that a console should even really be judged that way.  But I will give the NES props for exemplifying "Nintendo hard"

[Tulpa | 3,490]

3 hours ago, PII said:

Oh, and Silver Surfer is an awesome fun shmup!  Surfer just happens to have a really big hit box (just like the last mistake I made in the dating world - b'dmp, tsch!) and an occasional foreground/background indecipherability that can really only be learned with certainty the hard way.

The enemies are also pretty tough until you're fully powered (and even then some take more than one hit.)

The hitbox is a factor, too, but most obstacles that would kill you also block your shots, so there is a way to see how to thread the needle in most spots.

Also, most people don't know that the Bs you collect are screen clearing bombs. Granted, it's easy to forget in the frenzy, but they are there. Just about everything else in the game (enemies that come out of nowhere, tough bosses) are common to most of the shooters on the system.

[Sumez | 2,934]

The average difficulty of NES games is definitely overrated. You often see NES Contra on the top list of "hardest games ever", but it's not even in the harder end of NES titles, and lots of SNES games are absolutely tougher. Contra 3 for sure is.

I'm not sure when the "Nintendo hard" thing started, it definitely wasn't a thing back in the day. Most NES titles can be completed with relative ease, and even the ones with a reputation really don't take that much dedication to make it through. But the balance is skewed by a ton of shitty games which feel impossibly hard due to how awful and unintuitive they feel to play. Is Frankenstein: The Monster Returns a difficult game? If you learn how to deal with everything it throws at you it probably isn't, but most people will be put off by it long before reaching that point.

4 hours ago, Reed Rothchild said:

Super GnG is harder than GnG.

[Tanooki | 4,932]

I'll say this much back in the 80s and throughout the 90s I could clear Silver Surfer without much effort, but it has been so long I get destroyed now as memories don't match the play in practice now.  It's not a bad game, the only crushing problem is has is with the surfers own collision in respect to not bullets, but surface contact, and mostly just with the vertical stages.  They're just not done well, and given his size and multiple tight spaces in any stage like that, it's fury inducing hell much like the same spots that rage people with the old TMNT game for being so called evil.

As was said, if you keep firing like crazy, better if you're boosted due to a spread of shots) you can see where the real wall is vs the stupid visual and it makes getting through those crappy spots better.  I loved the comic back around 1990-92 so the game was a blast to play and I put up with it long enough to figure out that design fail and somewhat of a counter to it.  Once you can clear it, the game is maybe 30-40min long at best.

[Sumez | 2,934]

Hell, let's just go with it and state there are no bad games at all  

[Reed Rothchild | 9,514]

Yeah, that's just my own personal experience.  I was able to get a hair away from 1CC'ing GnG within one week of play time for the contest a few years ago.  SGnG is much lengthier, and that penultimate boss is such a pain.  I've never been close to a 1CC.