Console Debate #26 Super Nintendo/Super Famicom

[mbd39 | 2,017]

Is SNES music perfect? No.

Is it impressive for the time? Absolutely. Maybe it wasn't as  impressive if you already had a super expensive PC with CD ROM drive and Roland sound card, but most of us did not.

I'd never heard music of that quality in games before the SNES. Like orchestral music that actually sort of sounds like orchestral music and not an extremely crude FM synthesis approximation. The Genesis simply can't do anything like Final Fantasy II/IV or Super Castlevania IV at all, even though the audio chip does other stuff well (such as the dencey electronica of SOR2).

I mean just listen to Aquatic Ambience from Donkey Kong Country. SNES music is great.

 

[Californication | 1,477]

8 hours ago, DorkOverlord said:

This is the first console I ever bought with my own money. I was a Genesis kid (and still am), but I had to have Link to the Past. Also, let's be honest: just about any game that was available on both had its superior version on the SNES. 

As someone that grew up with an Snes and moved into Sega more recently I find:

Micky Mania, Joe and Mac, and Castlevania are superior on the Genesis.

and then Sunset Riders, Contra, and Mega Turrican are better imo, but people would probably disagree about these more.

 

Edited May 2, 2021 by Californication

[Webhead123 | 675]

While the Atari and NES are responsible for getting me obsessed with video games in the first place, the SNES is the little entertainment machine that ended up defining gaming for my tastes. It also has the distinction of being the first console I ever saved up for and bought for myself. A friend had gotten one within a couple weeks of launch and I played a little bit of SMW at his house. I had seen all the commercials and was dead-set that I had to have one of my own. Between allowance and odd-job money, I scrounged and patiently waited. Finally, after getting the extra cash I needed from grandma on Christmas of '91, I convinced dad (I was still too young to drive) to take me down to Woolsworth the next day. So, December 26th, 1991, I had in my possession what would become the greatest video game console of all time. 

One of the greatest game libraries ever. It's generation was really the beginning of seeing the arcade experience start to come home. I remember how huge a deal it was to get games like Final Fight and TMNT at home...and the incredible Street Fighter II port, which blew people's minds at the time. My friend and I tried for 6 weeks straight to secure a copy from our local rental store before one of them finally came available. Or, how about Mortal Kombat II, which single-handedly forced Nintendo to abandon their "no blood" policy because they absolutely had to have that game on their platform?

I don't need to list off all the timeless classics that came from this machine. But for me, the SNES is easily my G.O.A.T. and the console that I've both put the most time into throughout my life and return to the most often even today.

30th birthday of the SNES is coming up! Gonna have to celebrate proper.

10/10

Edited May 2, 2021 by Webhead123

[Tulpa | 3,488]

On 4/30/2021 at 11:57 AM, DefaultGen said:

SNES music all sounds like it's played through a mattress,

This. I like treble heavy, spiky music and the SNES soundtracks sound too muffled. Like someone went to a brass band and stuck mutes in all the horns.

[Webhead123 | 675]

I can understand the SNES sound-chip criticism...but both then and today, I've always really liked how the console sounded. 

[Tulpa | 3,488]

1 hour ago, Webhead123 said:

I can understand the SNES sound-chip criticism...but both then and today, I've always really liked how the console sounded. 

I'm not saying it's terrible, I just personally like some treble to sound/music.

[JamesRobot | 5,786]

I had a Genesis.

[Nintegageo | 582]

This is the 10. Nintendo had the tech, the console to own and they had third party titles like no one else. SNES* is the greatest console.

*SFC

Edited May 3, 2021 by Nintegageo

[Tanooki | 4,930]

So @FenrirZeroyou docked SNES 2 illogical points because you bought something you couldn't afford games for (what year?) and because a game that never happened on it reminded you of one you couldn't afford, so another.  Logically speaking, since that's 100% irrational, the SNES is a 10 in your book then since neither are honest disqualifying answers and unrelated nitpicks.

[Dr. Morbis | 2,088]

6 hours ago, JamesRobot said:

I had a Genesis.

That's another knock against the SNES right there: in the 8 bit era, literally all the great games were unified into one console's library; in the 16-bit era, you had all the great games split between two consoles, such that the SNES is bogged down in an endless debate about whether or not it's even the best console of it's generation, never mind of all time...

[Reed Rothchild | 9,510]

17 minutes ago, Dr. Morbis said:

That's another knock against the SNES right there: in the 8 bit era, literally all the great games were unified into one console's library; in the 16-bit era, you had all the great games split between two consoles, such that the SNES is bogged down in an endless debate about whether or not it's even the best console of it's generation, never mind of all time...

That's like saying the The French Connection must be better than The Godfather II because The Godfather II came out the same year as Chinatown.

And people who are complaining about the 6 buttons sound pretty silly.  That shit was the future, and the rough layout became the standard for a reason.  Not a frickin' 2 or 3 button setup 

[Dr. Morbis | 2,088]

35 minutes ago, Reed Rothchild said:

And people who are complaining about the 6 buttons sound pretty silly.  That shit was the future, and the rough layout became the standard for a reason.

Yeah, and that reason is 3D.  Outside of vs fighting games, there is no reason to have 6-8 buttons for a 2D game; that is literally the definition of needlessly over-complicating any given control scheme...

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

1 minute ago, Dr. Morbis said:

Yeah, and that reason is 3D.  Outside of vs fighting games, there is no reason to have 6-8 buttons for a 2D game; that is literally the definition of needlessly over-complicating any given control scheme...

How many games have complicated mapping of functions, or needless use of menus solely because of not enough buttons.  Simple games can (and still do) get made that simply do not use every button.  The fact that they were new made developers shoehorn functions to each button needlessly, but as games got more complex, they got used well.  The problem isn't the controller, it's the way it's utilized. 

And for the record, 3D isn't why six buttons became standard.  It's because of fighting games, specifically Street Fighter.  Try playing any fighting game from Street Fighter II onward with a 3 button Genesis pad and you'll appreciate those extra buttons in a hurry.  That's really the only reason Sega developed a 6-button pad in the first place.

Another good example of the functionality difference between the two Genesis pads is to look at Maximum Carnage.  It plays infinitely better on a 6 button pad simply due to not having to do fucking combo moves for basic functionality that is necessary to play the game properly.  The SNES was forward thinking in that regard - they made a controller that could handle more complex shit early on, and then  optimized it later.

[Dr. Morbis | 2,088]

1 minute ago, the_wizard_666 said:

And for the record, 3D isn't why six buttons became standard.  It's because of fighting games, specifically Street Fighter.  Try playing any fighting game from Street Fighter II onward with a 3 button Genesis pad and you'll appreciate those extra buttons in a hurry.  That's really the only reason Sega developed a 6-button pad in the first place.

No, the design of the Super Famicom controller predates SF II by a number of years.  Fighting games had absolutely nothing to do with the move to 6+ buttons.  Nintendo added more buttons to their controller because they could, and everyone else just copied them...

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Morbis said:

No, the design of the Super Famicom controller predates SF II by a number of years.  Fighting games had absolutely nothing to do with the move to 6+ buttons.  Nintendo added more buttons to their controller because they could, and everyone else just copied them...

If you actually READ the post, I was referring to why SEGA released a 6-button GENESIS controller.  The SNES was forward-thinking in that regard.  Better to have and not need than to need and not have...and they'd already seen that Sega titles were already starting to be limited by 3 buttons...

[Dr. Morbis | 2,088]

Just now, the_wizard_666 said:

If you actually READ the post, I was referring to why SEGA released a 6-button GENESIS controller.  The SNES was forward-thinking in that regard.  Better to have and not need than to need and not have...and they'd already seen that Sega titles were already starting to be limited by 3 buttons...

No, these are your EXACT words:

"And for the record, 3D isn't why six buttons became standard.  It's because of fighting games, specifically Street Fighter. "

You were wrong, but I forgive you

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

Just now, Dr. Morbis said:

No, these are your EXACT words:

"And for the record, 3D isn't why six buttons became standard.  It's because of fighting games, specifically Street Fighter. "

You were wrong, but I forgive you

Key words: BECAME STANDARD.  The SNES had the controller already.  Sega had to release one to compete or they'd lose market share because of the insane popularity of fighting games post-Street Fighter II.  Ever since, every console has had at least 6 buttons.  AT LEAST.  Nintendo was the first, but the standard wasn't set until Sega followed their lead due to necessity.  The PS/Saturn era was truly when consoles really cemented the 6 button minimum.  Until that time, only the SNES launched with a 6 button pad.  Thus it didn't BECOME STANDARD until after SFII.

[Dr. Morbis | 2,088]

2 minutes ago, the_wizard_666 said:

Key words: BECAME STANDARD.  The SNES had the controller already.  Sega had to release one to compete or they'd lose market share because of the insane popularity of fighting games post-Street Fighter II.  Ever since, every console has had at least 6 buttons.  AT LEAST.  Nintendo was the first, but the standard wasn't set until Sega followed their lead due to necessity.  The PS/Saturn era was truly when consoles really cemented the 6 button minimum.  Until that time, only the SNES launched with a 6 button pad.  Thus it didn't BECOME STANDARD until after SFII.

6 Buttons became standard with the release of the SNES/Super Famicom.   You don't get to arbitrarily pick which copycat down the line "set" the standard.  Nintendo set the standard that Sega et al had to meet.

Edited May 3, 2021 by Dr. Morbis

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

Just now, Dr. Morbis said:

6 Buttons became standard with the release of the SNES/Super Famicom.   You don't get to arbitrarily pick which copycat down the line "set" the standard.  Nintendo set the standard that Sege et al had to meet.

Major consoles released after the Super Famicom in 1990 and before the Playstation and Saturn in 1994:

CDi (1991) - 3 button pad at launch (and probably through it's lifespan)
3DO (1993) - 3 button pad at launch
Jaguar (1993) - Retarded controller with the 12-button keypad, but only 3 action buttons.
Neo Geo CD (1994, a few months prior to PS and Saturn) - 4 button pad.

If indeed the SNES controller made 6 buttons standard, how did these systems miss the memo?  Even most minor (aka worse than CDi) consoles only used 3 or 4 button pads.  I would say it wasn't standard until the PlayStation and Saturn launched.

[Dr. Morbis | 2,088]

3 minutes ago, the_wizard_666 said:

I would say it wasn't standard until the PlayStation and Saturn launched.

...Which were 3D

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

Just now, Dr. Morbis said:

...Which were 3D

As was 3DO.  And CDi.  And Jaguar. 

[Dr. Morbis | 2,088]

1 minute ago, the_wizard_666 said:

As was 3DO.  And CDi.  And Jaguar. 

Look, lets just agree to disagree.  You believe that Street Fighter was the cause of 6+ buttons and the Genesis made them standard.  I believe that innovation on Nintendo's part was what caused 6+ buttons and that the SNES/SF set the standard that was carried on through to the present due to the inherent need for more buttons with 3D games.  We disagree, c'est la vie.  I'm tired... going to bed... g'night

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

Just now, Dr. Morbis said:

Look, lets just agree to disagree.  You believe that Street Fighter was the cause of 6+ buttons and the Genesis made them standard.  I believe that innovation on Nintendo's part was what caused 6+ buttons and that the SNES/SF set the standard that was carried on through to the present due to the inherent need for more buttons with 3D games.  We disagree, c'est la vie.  I'm tired... going to bed... g'night

I didn't say that Genesis made them standard.  I said SFII necessitated 6 button controllers, which is why Sega made the controller.  It wasn't until Sega and Sony launched their 32 bit consoles in '94 that a 6-button minimum became standard.  Nintendo's innovation didn't set the standard, it just proved Nintendo was a forward thinking company that was ahead of it's time in 1990.  The standard was set due to necessity, nothing more.

[Dr. Morbis | 2,088]

2 minutes ago, the_wizard_666 said:

I didn't say that Genesis made them standard.

Ummm....

28 minutes ago, the_wizard_666 said:

Nintendo was the first, but the standard wasn't set until Sega followed their lead due to necessity.

 

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

Just now, Dr. Morbis said:

Ummm....