OptOut | 8,884 Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Rhino said: I'm simply saying what @OptOut wanted to say. I will refrain my language in the future. Hold your horses there bud. I'm quite capable of speaking on my own behalf. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhino | 105 Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 8 minutes ago, OptOut said: Hold your horses there bud. I'm quite capable of speaking on my own behalf. Get him then. Don't hold back. Don't let him and the @Tulpas drown out the good discussions here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhino | 105 Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 Serious question, who wins the 2020 presidential election and why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferris Bueller | 495 Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 Nuke the whales. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodysGameRoom | 2,008 Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 57 minutes ago, OptOut said: I guess your forceful language and style of argument just reminded me a lot of why I don't join in on a lot of the specifics of these sorts of debates anymore. That's fair enough. I'm admittedly passionate and can come off abrasive. 58 minutes ago, OptOut said: But I was wondering if you acknowledge the extent of your own prejudices just as much, and whether that consideration extends beyond racial and ethnic prejudices to others you may be prejudiced against INCLUDING people who are opposed to you politically. I have said numerous times that my political stances have no bearing on my views on racism. I am not prejudiced to those who are opposed to my political views. Is racism a political view? I guess that depends on how you look at it. It shouldn't be. Not mistreating a person because of their skin color should not be a political issue. This is something that conservatives and liberals SHOULD agree on and it boggles the mind why they don't. I live in Nebraska. I am surrounded by conservatives at work. Two of my best friends are extremely fiscally conservative. I have watched them grow more socially liberal over the years and it pleases me. I do not hold their views against them. If they were racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, that would be a deal breaker for me. 1 hour ago, OptOut said: I'm not asking you to defend those stances again I won't then but I'll point out that I was SPECIFICALLY REFERRING TO RACISTS and I stand by my viewpoint because it's simply the truth. 1 hour ago, OptOut said: But do you ever consider THESE people in any terms more than their political ideologies? Are they racist? Sexist? Etc? then NOPE. Otherwise, yes I do, daily, in the workplace, and everywhere else in my home state. 1 hour ago, OptOut said: You language in dismissing them throughout this thread I have personally found rather distasteful. Understandable. It's not my intention to come off so distasteful to you but you know, so it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodysGameRoom | 2,008 Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Rhino said: Get him then. Don't hold back. Don't let him and the @Tulpas drown out the good discussions here. Read as: "Don't let anyone who debates me personally get away with it! " @Tulpa comes off as very intelligent, with well thought out viewpoints and in depth analysis. If we all posted like he did then the mods would have the shiny happy thread they want to have here. Edited July 4, 2020 by CodysGameRoom 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OptOut | 8,884 Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 13 minutes ago, Rhino said: Get him then. Don't hold back. Don't let him and the @Tulpas drown out the good discussions here. "Getting" people is not the purpose of constructive debate or discussion. "Holding back" is one of the most important skills to learn when aiming to convince others of the merits of your point of view. Politics, debate and decisions on the shaping of our society are not a game. Winning should not be a consideration. They shouldn't be reduced to team sports, us vs them. This kind of approach diminishes us all. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodysGameRoom | 2,008 Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 21 minutes ago, Rhino said: Serious question, who wins the 2020 presidential election and why? Trump because the democrats have failed ONCE AGAIN to provide a candidate that is even likable enough to get the votes. Wishing very much to be wrong on this one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OptOut | 8,884 Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 4 minutes ago, CodysGameRoom said: Are they racist? Sexist? Etc? then NOPE. Otherwise, yes I do, daily, in the workplace, and everywhere else in my home state. Well I guess here we've found the line where we truly differ then. Racists are people too. I can vehemently detest the beliefs and espousings of an individual WITHOUT hating them as a person. Educate, debate, confront, intervene where practical, combat where necessary, but never forget that the people on the other side of that line ARE people, just like you or I. If you can remember that, and give them the decency that they themselves may NOT have shown to others, you will be FAR more likely to reach them with a message they can begin to process. But coming in hot, guns a blazing and denouncing their very humanity, is probably one of the worst ways to get your viewpoints across. The barriers go up and the bombs come back. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodysGameRoom | 2,008 Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 First I'll say, you have fair points. I'll agree with most of them, in a certain context. I'll now offer my opinions on what you said. 28 minutes ago, OptOut said: I can vehemently detest the beliefs and espousings of an individual WITHOUT hating them as a person. Hate is a strong word. I don't know anyone here well enough to hate them if that is what you are getting at. 29 minutes ago, OptOut said: If you can remember that, and give them the decency that they themselves may NOT have shown to others, you will be FAR more likely to reach them with a message they can begin to process. I agree. However, multiple people in this thread who are much less abrasive than I have done exactly that, and not made any headway. Zero. Anyone who came into this thread denying systemic racism exists, has read every point that any of us have made about it, and not changes their positions a single bit. So really, what does it matter? I'm specifically referring to this message board. Your position here makes a lot more sense in every day life. And I don't disagree with it. 31 minutes ago, OptOut said: But coming in hot, guns a blazing and denouncing their very humanity, is probably one of the worst ways to get your viewpoints across. The barriers go up and the bombs come back. I think you are basing your opinion of me on a few posts. 90% of posts I've made in this thread were perfectly "level-headed". When I get "guns a blazing" that is because it is clear that regular discourse will not make a difference. Hope this helps explain my side of things. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OptOut | 8,884 Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 Thanks for the clarification Cody. It's... It's been a long thread, lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloves | 11,779 Administrator · Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 1 minute ago, OptOut said: Thanks for the clarification Cody. It's... It's been a long thread, lol! And now we can finally... Shut 'er down. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estil | 1,265 Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 7 hours ago, Rhino said: Wow someone seriously just got mad at me for wearing a mask wtf. This is what's wrong with everyone right now. You and everyone really would do well to remember this classic Aseop's Fable: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_miller,_his_son_and_the_donkey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estil | 1,265 Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, Hammerfestus said: Are you sure they weren’t mad because you were robbing the bank at the time? Or worse, robbing the Playhouse! Wow our fearless leader (who today gave a very beautiful patriotic speech at Mt Rushmore BTW) sure would not be happy with Randy publishing such blatant fake news! And I mean super fake news, as in faker than a whole sheet of $3 bills...I mean yellow journalism (what fake news was called over 100 years ago) that's yellower than a bucket of warm "ahem"!! Edited July 4, 2020 by Estil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Link | 2,712 Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 4 hours ago, B.A. said: For those who want this thread to stay open, which I suspect is a small minority of the forum at this point, feel fortunate that @gloves got here first. This single thread has received more moderator reports for behavior than every other thread on the site combined. Stop it!! Everyone is sick of it. Wow. I know you can’t share, but I’m curious who and what. Although as Estil would say, ‘as our fearless leader would say’, I have seen some things over the line “from both sides”. Overall respectful (as a few people have said) (albeit with occasinal general warnings) but if people are getting their feelings hurt... feh! 9 hours ago, Rhino said: Well said. @CodysGameRoom has been an ass throughout most of this. I too don't talk about my political beliefs. All it leads to is drama, shouting, arguing, etc. People just can't have a sane political discussion. I'll post a valid point and immediately be called racist or whatever because it doesn't align with someone else's opinion. You did come in pretty hot for a while. Spoiler You just choose to believe what the media wants you to think. Wake up social justice woke warriors. Have a brain and opinion for f*cks sake. Do your homework. Watch this video. All you social justice woke warriors are losing your f*cking minds with all this crap. ...Give me a break. It's getting ridiculous. Spoiler I’m not sure how that’s not “twisted with bias and misinformation” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fcgamer | 4,723 Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 6 hours ago, CodysGameRoom said: Sorry, the media told me to be an ass so I'm just blindly following whatever they say. My bad! *Reads the title of the thread* I think you might be lost then. Why are you coming into the politics thread and complaining about people discussing politics? There has been plenty of interesting and level headed discourse in this thread. Has that happened to you in this thread? I doubt it. I mean I could be wrong. Or are you speaking about elsewhere? The only thing I saw you get called out for is coming in and telling all of us to get educated and have a brain. Which, if you ask me, is a pretty "ass" move. But hey, it's just my opinion. Listen, I get it. I get passionate about what I believe in and it can at times come across abrasive. I know some people can't handle that or don't like it. But this is the politics/current event thread. If you don't like it, then you don't have to respond. FCGamer, Estil, and others have stopped responding to me when I quote them and offer my two cents. And that's fine. As I said before, I'll continue to offer my opinions in this thread unless I am asked not to or told that I am no longer welcome. I don't think I've done anything wrong. I've been a little heated at times, which I was warned about, and complied. Others have gotten heated here as well, and cooled their jets too when mods called it out. It kind of comes with the subject matter. Well I was talking to my family, and then sleeping by that point, so it's not that I simply stopped responding just because it was you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodysGameRoom | 2,008 Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 (edited) Happy 4th, y'all. Protesters block highway as Trump makes his way to Mount Rushmore Neil Young opposes use of his music at Trump Mount Rushmore event: 'I stand in solidarity with the Lakota Sioux' “We will have a large event on July 3. We told those folks that have concerns that they can stay home, but those who want to come and join us, we’ll be giving out free face masks, if they choose to wear one. But we won’t be social distancing,” Noem said Monday in an interview on Fox News. “We’re asking them to come — be ready to celebrate, to enjoy the freedoms and the liberties that we have in this country.” Edited July 4, 2020 by CodysGameRoom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWunderful | 2,927 Posted July 4, 2020 Author Share Posted July 4, 2020 Quick and dirty poll: Us citizens- would you pay more for consumer items, to reduce our reliance on China? Ex.- Would you pay 15% more for electronics, to bring 8% of manufacturing back to the US? like this post With a heart if yes, Like it with a trophy if no. (if my numbers are way off or dont make sense, vote for a generic increase in cost of consumer items, to bring back a generic amount of manufacturing) 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammerfestus | 3,846 Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 Those manufacturing jobs are not coming back. Forget China, we can’t compete with wages in, i don’t know, Poland for example. To rebuild the facilities and then pay workers appropriate wages? No way. That ship sailed a long time ago and any hope of forcing it back here through some sort of isolationist policy is a pipe dream. Sad but true. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulpa | 3,501 Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 Yeah, as much as I'd like to buy American, a lot of stuff, especially electronics, aren't feasible anymore. Especially when they mine the rare earth metals needed within spitting distance of the factories. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePhleo | 2,185 Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 26 minutes ago, Hammerfestus said: Those manufacturing jobs are not coming back. Forget China, we can’t compete with wages in, i don’t know, Poland for example. To rebuild the facilities and then pay workers appropriate wages? No way. That ship sailed a long time ago and any hope of forcing it back here through some sort of isolationist policy is a pipe dream. Sad but true. America can always turn itself around. If we can land on the moon we could surely bring manufacturing back to America. It just would require incentives. One of the things I was happy about with Donald Trump (before botched corona response, his trampling of the first amendment, using the Bible as a prop, and allowing our soldiers to die to keep Russia happy) was the high tariffs applied to Chinese goods. If all import goods are subject to high tariffs then American factories can compete in manufacturing department again. America has the advantage because we’re basically the consumers of everything there is. As an added benefit, if people can no longer afford cheap goods then maybe they might hold onto their iPhone for an extra year, or not need a new TV every three to four years. This in turn keeps more money in American pockets, and the environmental impacts are greatly reduced. No more shipping from China, AND less overall consumption? Great! Consumerism is our of control in America anyway. Tariffs the hell out of everything that enters our ports, and incentivize manufacturing in the states with lower taxes, and grants. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avatar! | 1,811 Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/03/us/minneapolis-government-george-floyd.html Over three nights, a five-mile stretch of Minneapolis sustained extraordinary damage...To many, the damage was an understandable response to years of injustice at the hands of the Minneapolis police...A close examination of the events, including interviews with more than two dozen elected officials, activists, business owners and residents, suggests at least some of the destruction resulted from a breakdown in governance. “Once [mayor] Frey comes out and basically sides with the protesters, he has sent the signal that the police are on their own,” said Lawrence Jacobs, professor of public policy at the University of Minnesota...But the owner of the factory, 7-Sigma, which employed 50 people, announced that the company was moving away because city leaders failed to protect the plant. Anyone from Minneapolis (or elsewhere) want to chime how you feel about this? Definitely failed leadership here... well, no leadership it sounds like. People are talking about rebuilding - good luck Minneapolis, I think you will need it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avatar! | 1,811 Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 2 hours ago, MrWunderful said: Quick and dirty poll: Us citizens- would you pay more for consumer items, to reduce our reliance on China? Ex.- Would you pay 15% more for electronics, to bring 8% of manufacturing back to the US? Definitely. I go out of my way to try and purchase goods that are not Chinese. Sometimes it can't be helped - only one country makes the Switch for example. Other times it can. I needed a new electric toothbrush, and I purchased an Oral-B that is made in Germany with components made in the USA. Clothes can also be purchased that are made in the USA. Sometimes quite pricey, other times not so pricey. I get my jeans from Texas Jeans https://texasjeans.com/ Many goods are made in the USA, but perhaps are not in the forefront of people's thoughts - after all, how easy is it to just purchase something cheap on amazon without thinking... Still, I personally think (and you can argue with me if you want) that China is a major threat to democracy. https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/foreign-policy/505373-wuhan-is-the-final-straw-the-world-needs-to-divest-from 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammerfestus | 3,846 Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 Buying American is a cute but ultimately pointless exercise. Does buying American increase the wages of the workers producing it? Or does it much like the tax cuts that were supposed to go to American workers and instead went into stock buybacks provide our society no actual benefit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabonga | 2,318 Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 1 hour ago, avatar! said: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/03/us/minneapolis-government-george-floyd.html Over three nights, a five-mile stretch of Minneapolis sustained extraordinary damage...To many, the damage was an understandable response to years of injustice at the hands of the Minneapolis police...A close examination of the events, including interviews with more than two dozen elected officials, activists, business owners and residents, suggests at least some of the destruction resulted from a breakdown in governance. “Once [mayor] Frey comes out and basically sides with the protesters, he has sent the signal that the police are on their own,” said Lawrence Jacobs, professor of public policy at the University of Minnesota...But the owner of the factory, 7-Sigma, which employed 50 people, announced that the company was moving away because city leaders failed to protect the plant. Anyone from Minneapolis (or elsewhere) want to chime how you feel about this? Definitely failed leadership here... well, no leadership it sounds like. People are talking about rebuilding - good luck Minneapolis, I think you will need it. Daddy - we left our toys out on the street and somebody drove over them: https://gruntstuff.com/minneapolis-sees-55m-in-building-injury-looting-during-george-floyd-protests/63738/ https://www.startribune.com/walz-requests-federal-aid-to-repair-damage-from-unrest-after-floyd-s-death/571606852/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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