The Spreading (And Potentially Deadly) Coronavirus Epidemic....

[fcgamer | 4,731]

6 hours ago, darkchylde28 said:

Except that with the fun new Delta variant, even the vaccinated can and will carry a full viral load if they manage to catch it (which is much easier for vaccinated folks than with previous strains).  Despite the fact that the vaccine has tended to make sure those who still caught the delta variant don't end up in the hospital or die, they can (and apparently do) still spread the virus as easily as anyone else who's been infected.  So you know what that means?  WEAR YOUR DAMNED MASK and KEEP YOUR GERMS TO YOURSELF.

Just like with all the folks who won't get vaccinated that you're looking down on from so high, if you pick up the delta variant, you can take it home and kill Grandma just like filthy 'ol Billy Bob in the trailer park--because you weren't wearing your mask to keep it to yourself.

It sounds like that dude doesn't know what's in his beer, let alone the vaccine, so I think we can all tell that that's really a BS reason.  At this point, pretty much every non-medical excuse that's thrown out is BS.  Would it not cause you (or anyone in that sort of situation, really) undue problems at work, I'd say to keep a little spray bottle around and just hose him down in the face when he drops his mask, just like folks do to cats when they're doing something they shouldn't.

Not acting high and mighty at all, I'm acting f'ing realistic.

From the data I just looked up, it appears that roughly half of the United States is fully vaccinated, and there definitely are some correlations between age group and amount of people vaccinated.

I've been told that initially it was a struggle to get a covid-19 vaccine in the States, but by now, there's an abundance of vaccines available, so much that people from other countries are flying over for vaccine tourism. So why isn't the other 50% of the country getting vaccinated?

For many, the answer is choice. Afraid of the long term effects, don't believe in vaccines, feel they're healthy enough they don't need it, etc etc.

Addressing these folks and getting more people vaccinated is the most important key in resolving the covid issue, no, wearing masks to eternity while is not the solution.

On a different note, you mentioned about viral loads and shit , well people seem to have forgotten that the purpose of vaccines is to lessen the symptoms so that you hopefully won't die, rather than to actually prevent you from 100% catching the virus.

[fcgamer | 4,731]

Aaaand just to comment on something else: could someone please explain to me again why the f'ck the Olympics are going on during a pandemic?

Perhaps everyone should be following the same rules, rather than the elite being given special privileges ... It's not like they're immune to catching and spreading covid-19.

[Estil | 1,265]

Oh all the vaccinated people to get covid anyway, would you believe my boyhood hero, Don Mattingly???

https://www.mlb.com/news/don-mattingly-tests-positive-for-covid-19

[Estil | 1,265]

34 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

For many, the answer is choice. Afraid of the long term effects, don't believe in vaccines, feel they're healthy enough they don't need it, etc etc.

And not only is that the wrong choice...

 

[Tulpa | 3,518]

8 minutes ago, Estil said:

Oh all the vaccinated people to get covid anyway, would you believe my boyhood hero, Don Mattingly???

https://www.mlb.com/news/don-mattingly-tests-positive-for-covid-19

The vaccine isn't a guarantee against testing positive for COVID, it just means he probably won't get that sick.

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

1 hour ago, fcgamer said:

I've been told that initially it was a struggle to get a covid-19 vaccine in the States, but by now, there's an abundance of vaccines available, so much that people from other countries are flying over for vaccine tourism. So why isn't the other 50% of the country getting vaccinated?

For many, the answer is choice. Afraid of the long term effects, don't believe in vaccines, feel they're healthy enough they don't need it, etc etc.

 

Anyone who has wanted it should have had access since mid-April.

Regarding "choice" -- what bothers me most is hearing morons claim they are making an "informed choice" when they don't know their asshole from their elbow, let alone have enough college level science to really follow the discussion. Basically they appear to mistrust actual scientists in favor of trusting talking heads that pander to their misunderstanding with conspiracy theories.

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

1 hour ago, fcgamer said:

Not acting high and mighty at all, I'm acting f'ing realistic.

From the data I just looked up, it appears that roughly half of the United States is fully vaccinated, and there definitely are some correlations between age group and amount of people vaccinated.

I've been told that initially it was a struggle to get a covid-19 vaccine in the States, but by now, there's an abundance of vaccines available, so much that people from other countries are flying over for vaccine tourism. So why isn't the other 50% of the country getting vaccinated?

For many, the answer is choice. Afraid of the long term effects, don't believe in vaccines, feel they're healthy enough they don't need it, etc etc.

Addressing these folks and getting more people vaccinated is the most important key in resolving the covid issue, no, wearing masks to eternity while is not the solution.

On a different note, you mentioned about viral loads and shit , well people seem to have forgotten that the purpose of vaccines is to lessen the symptoms so that you hopefully won't die, rather than to actually prevent you from 100% catching the virus.

Realistic is knowing that this is going to turn out badly because nobody will enforce what few mandates are passed and as you point out in a later post, the rich/privileged get to do what they want, while everybody else gets to play by a different set of rules.  I'd disagree that saying, essentially, fuck everybody, I'm vaccinated and will likely be fine so I won't go back to a mask (even if I catch the shit and spread it around willy nilly while feeling fine because, hey, I'm vaccinated) isn't putting oneself up above everybody else.

Sure, vaccinating everybody who can be is at the forefront of importance, but you know what else is?  SLOWING and/or STOPPING the ever-escalating spread while all the politicians stick their thumbs up their collective asses doing nothing about it.  How do you do that?  Enforce EVERYONE putting their masks on when required, since the newer, nastier version of the plague can be picked up and spread far and wide by EVERYBODY now, not just the unthinking, unwashed, unvaccinated masses.

1 hour ago, fcgamer said:

Aaaand just to comment on something else: could someone please explain to me again why the f'ck the Olympics are going on during a pandemic?

Perhaps everyone should be following the same rules, rather than the elite being given special privileges ... It's not like they're immune to catching and spreading covid-19.

Bingo.  If we're going to have two different standards like this, then I want armed guards, with loaded rifles standing outside of all of the areas that require vaccination, and a willingness in those folks to put a bullet through any mouth breather who won't mask up, get vaccinated, etc., who tries to bypass them.  Harsh?  Sure, but as you've indicated before, fuck 'em, right?  Let's save who is willing to be saved and let the rest wallow in squalor, all the while generating a more and more potent version of the plague that's likely to wipe the planet free of us all.

13 minutes ago, arch_8ngel said:

Anyone who has wanted it should have had access since mid-April.

Regarding "choice" -- what bothers me most is hearing morons claim they are making an "informed choice" when they don't know their asshole from their elbow, let alone have enough college level science to really follow the discussion. Basically they appear to mistrust actual scientists in favor of trusting talking heads that pander to their misunderstanding with conspiracy theories.

Absolutely.  They won't actually discuss anything, let alone in an informed manner.  At best, if you try to converse, you get Fox News bullet points or worse shot back at you, none of which they can actually explain, defend, etc., except to circle back to making the same statements again and again before decrying you as belonging to whatever political group they don't agree with, bringing up any racial differences, etc.  Can you tell I live in the South?  The closest most of these people likely got to paying attention to science was trying to figure out if they could watch Breaking Bad close enough to duplicate Walt and Jesse's early "success."

As far as "choice" is concerned, we've for decades had laws and regulations in place which restricted certain things from people who didn't meet certain requirements (got to have all of your shots to go to K-12, college, the armed forces, etc.).  It's beyond high time that we get back to that idea and start enforcing it in the middle of a raging pandemic that is only getting worse and more catastrophic the longer these idiots pass the plague freely back and forth among themselves.

[fcgamer | 4,731]

5 minutes ago, darkchylde28 said:

As far as "choice" is concerned, we've for decades had laws and regulations in place which restricted certain things from people who didn't meet certain requirements (got to have all of your shots to go to K-12, college, the armed forces, etc.).  It's beyond high time that we get back to that idea and start enforcing it in the middle of a raging pandemic that is only getting worse and more catastrophic the longer these idiots pass the plague freely back and forth among themselves.

Regarding vaccinations, I totally agree with this mentality.

[fcgamer | 4,731]

9 minutes ago, darkchylde28 said:

Realistic is knowing that this is going to turn out badly because nobody will enforce what few mandates are passed and as you point out in a later post, the rich/privileged get to do what they want, while everybody else gets to play by a different set of rules.  I'd disagree that saying, essentially, fuck everybody, I'm vaccinated and will likely be fine so I won't go back to a mask (even if I catch the shit and spread it around willy nilly while feeling fine because, hey, I'm vaccinated) isn't putting oneself up above everybody else.

The problem is the shit show attitude towards making and enforcing regulations, so often totally seems arbitrary at best.

Our situations and where we live are totally different, but for example, I was out of work (unpaid) for two months - the first month I get that, but for the second month, all (30ish) cases daily were concentrated in one area. Schools were closed, yet for some reason night markets were allowed to open up. Schools were closed, but dammit, let's open up the movie theatres. Gotta wear a mask while cycling outside (it seems to me the very act of being on a bicycle forces one to social distance somewhat), yet people were spreading the rona in shops selling necessities such as designer bags. It's stupidity.

I'd say the same for the States' situation. You've got enough vaccines for everyone, yet only half the country is vaccinated while the virus is possibly mutating? Gotta let Caitlin Jenner go to Australia, yet Australian citizens can't even get in. And the list goes on and on.

At some point we need to decide what is most important to us as a society. While I think it's important to try to think about the physical well-being of people, this sort of nonsense is taking a huge mental toll on many, as well as an economic toll on many. 

If this is how life needs to be from here on out until eternity, well tbh that doesn't sound like a life worth living.

 

[Tulpa | 3,518]

https://news.yahoo.com/virginia-covid-patient-goes-invincible-021835184.html

Once again, get vaccinated, people.

[Estil | 1,265]

2 hours ago, Tulpa said:

https://news.yahoo.com/virginia-covid-patient-goes-invincible-021835184.html

Once again, get vaccinated, people.

I just hope we don't progress to the point where we end up with a new kind of COVID that's more dangerous and/or immune to the vaccine...   This is not good folks, not good...

[Tulpa | 3,518]

32 minutes ago, Estil said:

I just hope we don't progress to the point where we end up with a new kind of COVID that's more dangerous and/or immune to the vaccine...   This is not good folks, not good...

It can only mutate if it's in a person, so if people would follow the protocols and not be like, "well, I'll never catch it," it won't do that.

But people are stupid, so...

[Boosted52405 | 178]

Idk I think a lot of the issues is that NO ONE IS ENFORCING ANYTHING.  Even when we had mask mandates, here in Iowa, people would storm into busy gas stations without a mask and argue/fight anyone who had an issue with it.  Simply put, there was 0 enforcement at least here.  It appears our state/city did not want to spend the $$$ and resources to enforce and simply communicated a mandate as more of a media stunt.

Perhaps it would be more problematic, but they've talked about the concept of a vaccine passport.  I think something needs introduced at the federal level (and backed financially) to hold people more accountable.  I assume that would cause a lot of other issues too, but something needs done.  The "honor" system simply ain't cutting it.

[TrekMD | 1,417]

https://www.comicsands.com/dad-of-five-died-vaccine-2654388380.html

[fcgamer | 4,731]

2 hours ago, Boosted52405 said:

Perhaps it would be more problematic, but they've talked about the concept of a vaccine passport.  

Vaccine passports suck, unless countries agree to put politics aside when designing it (which isn't going to happen, btw).

Take that situation a few months back when Broadway initially wouldn't allow fully vaccinated folks who had the AZ vaccine to attend shows... basically banning everyone from England, Taiwan, many Canadians, etc from attending...and AZ is great compared to the made in China vaccines that folks in South America are getting.

Vaccine passports therefore promote the concept that some vaccines are better than others, that not all vaccines are created equal. This creates a lot of problems, and adds fuel to the fire for the arguments not not wanting to get vaccinated.

[Boosted52405 | 178]

11 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

Vaccine passports suck, unless countries agree to put politics aside when designing it (which isn't going to happen, btw).

Take that situation a few months back when Broadway initially wouldn't allow fully vaccinated folks who had the AZ vaccine to attend shows... basically banning everyone from England, Taiwan, many Canadians, etc from attending...and AZ is great compared to the made in China vaccines that folks in South America are getting.

Vaccine passports therefore promote the concept that some vaccines are better than others, that not all vaccines are created equal. This creates a lot of problems, and adds fuel to the fire for the arguments not not wanting to get vaccinated.

Well if there is going to be a significant portion of society not getting vaccinated nor wearing masks, how would you propose to combat it? 

Should all of the vaccinated people just go back to masks and deal with it?  Seems hella counter-productive.

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

Google just told us today that they are requiring vaccinations for anybody on any of their campuses. Zero tolerance. Including subcontractors like construction workers. 

[Estil | 1,265]

3 hours ago, Tulpa said:

It can only mutate if it's in a person, so if people would follow the protocols and not be like, "well, I'll never catch it," it won't do that.

But people are stupid, so...

They're like that Jerry Clower sketch, naw I don't need no vaccine, GOOOODDDDD's gonna take care of me!  

[fcgamer | 4,731]

1 hour ago, Boosted52405 said:

Well if there is going to be a significant portion of society not getting vaccinated nor wearing masks, how would you propose to combat it? 

Should all of the vaccinated people just go back to masks and deal with it?  Seems hella counter-productive.

If you read my earlier post again, my issue stems from the fact that different countries / areas will accept different vaccines as a requirement, and let's not forget that these will be political in nature too.

Let's think seriously for a second about restaurants. Let's have Monday nights be Pfizer night, Tuesdays be AstraZenica night, Wednesdays are Moderna night, Thursdays sputnik night, etc. Doesn't that sound nice and ignorant? It sure does to me.

Or we can consider the Taiwanense made vaccine, which is coming out soon. People here already don't feel comfortable getting vaccinated fill stop, how long until that vaccine gets recognition from major countries? Yet if it's safe and works, it could save lives - yet if no one can travel with it, who would be willing to get it? See the problem?

Getting vaccinated *shouldn't* be like purchasing a suit, yet that's essentially what it's become, and vaccine passports will just make things even worse.

[Tulpa | 3,518]

25 minutes ago, Estil said:

They're like that Jerry Clower sketch, naw I don't need no vaccine, GOOOODDDDD's gonna take care of me!  

There were people last year who claimed that.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2020/04/04/ohio-church-service-covid-19-pandemic-tuchman-pkg-ac360-vpx.cnn

Wonder if some of them aren't alive anymore.

[Estil | 1,265]

7 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

There were people last year who claimed that.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2020/04/04/ohio-church-service-covid-19-pandemic-tuchman-pkg-ac360-vpx.cnn

Wonder if some of them aren't alive anymore.

God: Well, you dummies!  I sent ya those vaccines!!

 

Edited August 5, 2021 by Estil

[Boosted52405 | 178]

14 hours ago, fcgamer said:

If you read my earlier post again, my issue stems from the fact that different countries / areas will accept different vaccines as a requirement, and let's not forget that these will be political in nature too.

Let's think seriously for a second about restaurants. Let's have Monday nights be Pfizer night, Tuesdays be AstraZenica night, Wednesdays are Moderna night, Thursdays sputnik night, etc. Doesn't that sound nice and ignorant? It sure does to me.

Or we can consider the Taiwanense made vaccine, which is coming out soon. People here already don't feel comfortable getting vaccinated fill stop, how long until that vaccine gets recognition from major countries? Yet if it's safe and works, it could save lives - yet if no one can travel with it, who would be willing to get it? See the problem?

Getting vaccinated *shouldn't* be like purchasing a suit, yet that's essentially what it's become, and vaccine passports will just make things even worse.

I simply asked what ideas you had to help the situation, not to debate about a vaccine passport.  Also, not sure why you're dividing them up by brand at this point, I believe the general statuses would be "vaccinated" and "unvaccinated".

[fcgamer | 4,731]

1 hour ago, Boosted52405 said:

I simply asked what ideas you had to help the situation, not to debate about a vaccine passport.  Also, not sure why you're dividing them up by brand at this point, I believe the general statuses would be "vaccinated" and "unvaccinated".

It is impossible to address the question you asked me, until it truly does become a matter of vaccinated vs unvaccinated. For example:

https://deadline.com/2021/06/springsteen-on-broadway-astrazeneca-policy-reverse-vaccine-international-fans-1234778394/

Although the policy was eventually reversed, initially a large portion of vaccinated people from Canada a d Europe would have been unable to attend this show. I've also seen reports where some vaccines are accepted by some places, but only from certain batches (another example with AZ, where the batches made in India are thus far not accepted by many places).

Although the percentages of death or permanent damage from one of the vaccines is miniscule, in Taiwan I have numerous friends who don't want to get the AstraZenica vaccine for several reasons:

A. Risk

B. Not accepted various places (see what I mentioned about the initial Broadway stunt, the India batches, etc)

C. It seems that (Asian) people have been having much more severe side effects to the vaccines

D. Covid 19 is not very serious here

This makes it a very hard sell. People would rather not get vaccinated, or wait until the vaccine of their choosing becomes available, all the while putting themselves and everyone else at risk.

So yes, there definitely is a situation going on regarding brands, it's not simply a vaccinated or non vaccinated thing. 

Hell, because I live in Taiwan and got AstraZenica, if more companies/places in the States don't recognise it as an acceptable vaccine (which it is), then I'll either have to get double vaccinated or be unable to attend certain functions, with my family, whenever I visit. How dumb is that?

 

 

 

[Boosted52405 | 178]

42 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

It is impossible to address the question you asked me, until it truly does become a matter of vaccinated vs unvaccinated. For example:

https://deadline.com/2021/06/springsteen-on-broadway-astrazeneca-policy-reverse-vaccine-international-fans-1234778394/

Although the policy was eventually reversed, initially a large portion of vaccinated people from Canada a d Europe would have been unable to attend this show. I've also seen reports where some vaccines are accepted by some places, but only from certain batches (another example with AZ, where the batches made in India are thus far not accepted by many places).

Although the percentages of death or permanent damage from one of the vaccines is miniscule, in Taiwan I have numerous friends who don't want to get the AstraZenica vaccine for several reasons:

A. Risk

B. Not accepted various places (see what I mentioned about the initial Broadway stunt, the India batches, etc)

C. It seems that (Asian) people have been having much more severe side effects to the vaccines

D. Covid 19 is not very serious here

This makes it a very hard sell. People would rather not get vaccinated, or wait until the vaccine of their choosing becomes available, all the while putting themselves and everyone else at risk.

So yes, there definitely is a situation going on regarding brands, it's not simply a vaccinated or non vaccinated thing. 

Hell, because I live in Taiwan and got AstraZenica, if more companies/places in the States don't recognise it as an acceptable vaccine (which it is), then I'll either have to get double vaccinated or be unable to attend certain functions, with my family, whenever I visit. How dumb is that?

I think that handling of the event seems mostly reasonable - they are only accepting adults vaccinated with an "FDA or WHO authorized vaccine".

My concern would be this, however:

"The only exception, the policy states, will be for children under the age of 16, or those who need reasonable accommodations due to a disability or sincerely held religious beliefs."

I do think the branding is more of a concern in your location versus the states, at least from what I see day to day it's basically vaccinated or unvaccinated (with the 3 FDA approved ones).  As appropriate tho, they opened up the inclusion of AZ so that will likely be followed for future events modeled similarly.

There will ALWAYS be the people who fight all this though, so not sure anyone knows how to combat.  People will figure out a way to fake their vaccination cards (some already have), and unvaccinated people will still go into public places unmasked even when the establishment or their goverment requires it - because no one enforces anything. 

Some act like their "freedom" = entitlement to put innocent bystanders in an uncomfortable state by not following requested guidelines.  Not much beats wearing a mask with an unmasked person coughing right behind you, when they're supposed to be 6 feet away and wearing a mask.

[Estil | 1,265]

On 8/1/2021 at 5:17 PM, Estil said:

Oh all the vaccinated people to get covid anyway, would you believe my boyhood hero, Don Mattingly???

https://www.mlb.com/news/don-mattingly-tests-positive-for-covid-19

And now one of our local news people has it...again, got vaccinated but got COVID anyway.  I think both will be okay-ish though.

As I've said all along to my wife (well back when I still had her ) from the very start of all this, even with me not going hardly anywhere but the local grocery store just a few hundred yards away (I've always been very much an introvert anyway), even with me doing my best not to get too close to anyone and even with this vaccine (which I HAD to get or else they wouldn't have let come visit her in the nursing home for obvious reasons)...

It'll be just my luck I'll at some point get COVID anyway.  

Edited August 5, 2021 by Estil