2024 USA Presidential Election

[Tulpa | 3,534]

6 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

So what are you saying? You think I should either be locked up or shot for something I wasn't even involved in, someone who is living half way across the globe and didn't even vote the past few elections. Wtf, go out and take a walk or go for a hike or something, that's seriously messed up if that's how you feel.

It was  a joke, Francis.

But people who continue to support Trump after he threw a hissyfit and tried to overthrow a legal election, and then stole documents that weren't his to take, among other crimes? I don't have a lot of regard for them, given that they don't have a lot of regard for America.

Edited August 5, 2023 by Tulpa

[spacepup | 2,411]

Just a heads up in case anyone sees this thread in a new place - I moved it to the Politics Club where any such threads should be created.  Anything that is directly political in nature (and this thread certainly is) should go there instead of Everything Else.  This is to keep politics separate and if people want to join the club they can.

Outside of that, I also want to say something - and this is not just about the last few posts, but extends way beyond that.  A few members seem to keep getting in little fights, mostly in the politics threads, and sending the mods reports over all sorts of things, and essentially, the mod team is very exhausted and tired of dealing with fights stemming from the politics threads, to the extent that some have suggested we ban such threads from VGS to avoid conflict.

I've long fought to keep such threads open here at VGS, and to give people freedom to talk about the topics they want to, including controversial ones.  I want to keep it that way.  BUT.  If people can't stop fighting each other, sending reports to mods, and getting in conflicts that are indirectly or directly related to the politics topics, we may have no other choice.

Please keep this in mind as you create or discuss political topics.

[Tanooki | 4,950]

On 8/4/2023 at 10:56 PM, Khromak said:

I get what you're saying @Tanooki but I disagree on the democrats defending Biden. Most Democrats I've spoken with (and I know a lot) are not hardcore fans of Biden, and don't deflect from his issues, including his mental/physical health. I think if you asked 100 democrats, over half of them would say they don't want him running again. It's not our decision though.

Now ask 100 republicans if they think Trump should run again, I think you'll get a very different result and IMHO his issues are much larger.

There are issues on both sides, but I think the Republicans are much more fanatical and also much more forgiving/blinded to the flaws of their candidate. This of course only applies to Biden/Trump, when compared to other R candidates, this is less applicable.

Maybe I should have framed it better, but then it gets into someone whining for a tldr.
- Mainstream media, power brokers, the people who pull his cabinets strings who want to retain power for another election -- they want him.  B tier media/A tier talk types of the left too are getting increasingly fed up, and the voters are too.  Problem is, and I'm seeing southpark jokes (so easy) already, is that ultimately Biden will be FORCED on the left, they will have no choice and then the complainers will go silent and back the dementia patient for another term because heaven forbid the R's win or worse...gasp a third party or a second non-anointed choice on the left the people actually DO like.

And no I don't agree if you ask 100 republicans if they wanted Trump they'd take him, a good base, sure, and the strange thing isn't even so much for him, and despite his legal bs that's mounting, but because OF that legal harassment, stalking, media trolling, and other shit going back to when he got in office.  More are feeling he's just crapped on to distract, bury and silence the guy in and even more so out of office to keep him out and enough Rs and I's are feeling it's some banana republic bullshit to push back against, and that's the victim so he's the one to shove up there to give a bit F U to despite him being a piece of crap of a person.

It more than with Trump and Clinton or Obama vs either really amplifies that classic Southpark meme of ...Giant Douche vs Turd Sandwich.  Your choice which of the two now fit each role.

 

If anything politics should NEVER (social issues too) been allowed here.  Albert banned them decades ago at AtariAge and the place has been peaceful, and when someone tried to poke the bear they're nicely reminded, less so, then shown the door.  It keeps people who know don't agree on those issues friendly, happy, and on topic.  Why sites just don't ban the stuff at all is stunning as it just feels like staff covertly want the drama and then get shocked and annoyed when it happens.  Cut it off at the source, problem solved.

[Estil | 1,265]

17 minutes ago, Tanooki said:

If anything politics should NEVER (social issues too) been allowed here.  Albert banned them decades ago at AtariAge and the place has been peaceful, and when someone tried to poke the bear they're nicely reminded, less so, then shown the door.  It keeps people who know don't agree on those issues friendly, happy, and on topic.  

 

[FireHazard51 | 2,051]

On 8/3/2023 at 1:21 AM, Estil said:

They really needed to do a sequel for that.

 

[Hammerfestus | 3,881]

2 hours ago, Tanooki said:

...gasp a third party or a second non-anointed choice on the left the people actually DO like.

.

 

If anything politics should NEVER (social issues too) been allowed here.  Albert banned them decades ago at AtariAge and the place has been peaceful, and when someone tried to poke the bear they're nicely reminded, less so, then shown the door.  It keeps people who know don't agree on those issues friendly, happy, and on topic.  Why sites just don't ban the stuff at all is stunning as it just feels like staff covertly want the drama and then get shocked and annoyed when it happens.  Cut it off at the source, problem solved.

Aww come on now you inject that righty tighty crap into all sorts of unrelated threads.  
 

And 

you a bit of a Bernie Bro?  

[Gloves | 11,826]

2 hours ago, Tanooki said:

If anything politics should NEVER (social issues too) been allowed here.  Albert banned them decades ago at AtariAge and the place has been peaceful, and when someone tried to poke the bear they're nicely reminded, less so, then shown the door.  It keeps people who know don't agree on those issues friendly, happy, and on topic.  Why sites just don't ban the stuff at all is stunning as it just feels like staff covertly want the drama and then get shocked and annoyed when it happens.  Cut it off at the source, problem solved.

I expect a group of adults to be capable of acting like adults. If people get themselves banned that's on them. 

[Estil | 1,265]

3 hours ago, Gloves said:

I expect a group of adults to be capable of acting like adults. If people get themselves banned that's on them. 

Yet YouTube is filled with TONS of examples of "adults" throwing silly public temper tantrums and worse, sometimes their kids are the ones that must try to be the voice of reason.

[FireHazard51 | 2,051]

11 hours ago, Estil said:

Yet YouTube is filled with TONS of examples of "adults" throwing silly public temper tantrums and worse, sometimes their kids are the ones that must try to be the voice of reason.

Being an idiot isn't exclusive to an age range.  I deal with the general public from time to time for my job and I'm shock at some idiotic statements I read or hear from the public.  VGS has mods for a reason and it's to deal with people like them.  If you can't play by the rules or constantly play a fool about not knowing why your post are getting the mods involved then you'll get dismissed from the cool club.  I think the general consensus from the mods is to not ban topics/discussion because a few people will cause an issue.  AKA not letting the minority ruin the majority of member's discussion on the forum.  

If some people can't bite their tongue and avoid saying shit that will get them banned then all the better.  I'm not a mod so I don't have to worry about such work .  Sounds like AtariAge is lazy and doesn't want to deal with actually moderating things so they close all discussion down.  I appreciate VGS allowing adult discussions to take place.  It's not like the forum rules are that strict, just don't be a giant asshole.  I know that is subjective but I'm sure the mods will help you understand when you cross that line or in the grey zone.  If a topic brings out the ass in you then maybe self regulate and avoid those topics 

Spoiler

Werewolf games are the exception,  don't take away my Colbert persona!!!

 

[fcgamer | 4,752]

On 8/7/2023 at 12:30 PM, Gloves said:

I expect a group of adults to be capable of acting like adults. If people get themselves banned that's on them. 

That's part of the problem, "acting like adults". 

As someone who works with kids of all ages as a career, I can safely say that even at their worst, they act a lot better than a large portion of adults. 

[Tanooki | 4,950]

Ehh what Estil said.  You're giving adults on here too much credit just like others do with youtube and elsewhere.  It's best to just cut it off so it can't even happen in the first place without instant consequences.  Leaving the door open leaves it up to degrading into some news site comment section, 4chan, whatever.

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

The old slippery slope fallacy, my favorite!

[Estil | 1,265]

15 minutes ago, Tanooki said:

Ehh what Estil said.  You're giving adults on here too much credit just like others do with youtube and elsewhere.  It's best to just cut it off so it can't even happen in the first place without instant consequences.  Leaving the door open leaves it up to degrading into some news site comment section, 4chan, whatever.

Indeed, conducting yourself in a responsible non-asshole fashion has nothing, ZERO to do with the number of candles on your last birthday cake.

[Tanooki | 4,950]

1 minute ago, Estil said:

Indeed, conducting yourself in a responsible non-asshole fashion has nothing, ZERO to do with the number of candles on your last birthday cake.

Yup I mean there are examples of it even today and super recently too I'm betting, even if I can't see it, it's just suspect.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,576]

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/05/trump-supporters-republican-approval-cnn-town-hall/674142/

Sums up things pretty nicely here

[avatar! | 1,827]

On 8/13/2023 at 2:52 PM, Reed Rothchild said:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/05/trump-supporters-republican-approval-cnn-town-hall/674142/

Sums up things pretty nicely here

During a CNN town hall earlier this month, Donald Trump acted as expected. He used the phrase “whack job” to describe E. Jean Carroll, who was awarded $5 million in damages because a jury unanimously concluded that Trump had sexually abused and defamed her. His statement elicited applause and laughter from the mostly pro-Trump crowd. He also described the January 6 insurrection as a “beautiful day” and declared that, if reelected president in 2024, he would pardon a “large portion” of the rioters. Those statements, too, brought applause from the raucous audience.

There was more. Trump called the Black police officer who had shot and killed one of the rioters storming the Capitol a “thug,” falsely claiming that the officer had bragged about the incident. Trump defended taking top-secret documents to his Mar-a-Lago estate. He wouldn’t say whether he hoped that Ukraine would win the war against Russia. And he spewed lie after lie after lie about the 2020 election and virtually every other topic that came up.

Another show we've been watching is this --

And let me tell you, a lot of what they discuss is very frighteningly similar to the modus operandi of Trump, the wannabe dictator.

[Tulpa | 3,534]

The welps keep coming.

https://apnews.com/article/trump-georgia-election-investigation-grand-jury-willis-d39562cedfc60d64948708de1b011ed3

Trump and 18 allies charged in Georgia election meddling as former president faces 4th criminal case

ATLANTA (AP) — Donald Trump and 18 allies were indicted in Georgia on Monday over their efforts to overturn his 2020 election loss in the state, with prosecutors using a statute normally associated with mobsters to accuse the former president, lawyers and other aides of a “criminal enterprise” to keep him in power.

The nearly 100-page indictment details dozens of acts by Trump or his allies to undo his defeat, including beseeching Georgia’s Republican secretary of state to find enough votes for him to win the battleground state; harassing an election worker who faced false claims of fraud; and attempting to persuade Georgia lawmakers to ignore the will of voters and appoint a new slate of electoral college electors favorable to Trump.

In one particularly brazen episode, it also outlines a plot involving one of his lawyers to access voting machines in a rural Georgia county and steal data from a voting machine company.

“The indictment alleges that rather than abide by Georgia’s legal process for election challenges, the defendants engaged in a criminal racketeering enterprise to overturn Georgia’s presidential election result,” Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis, whose office brought the case, said at a late-night news conference.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,576]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/magazine/2022/10/10/country-after-second-trump-term/

No other established democracy since at least 1950 has been so polarized for so long. In nearly half of the dozens of countries McCoy studied, the next step after pernicious polarization was either “electoral autocracy” — where votes are cast but don’t necessarily confer power — or outright “democratic collapse.” “It’s extremely worrisome; we’re in uncharted territory,” McCoy told me.

[G-type | 2,519]

I think the probability of Biden dropping out is increasing now that he is trailing Trump in quite a few key states. I don't think he particularly WANTS the job again, and is only doing it out of the belief that "he's the only one who can stop Trump".. but if that is gone then he really has nothing to cling to. right now his poll numbers are well below other 1-termers like Carter and Bush Sr.

Who would the Democrats pick for their plan B? something tells me that its going to be a woman. My best guess would be Gretchin Whitmer, although Elizabeth Warren and Amy Klobuchar would be likely to throw their hats in the ring too. Kamala Harris is 100% not going to be it.

[avatar! | 1,827]

A lot of polls are showing Biden and Trump very close, within the margin of error.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/2024/national/

Unless there is another Democrat that is likely to appeal to conservatives, I think Biden will be the challenger and I just pray common sense prevails and Trump losses.

[Link | 2,726]

5 hours ago, avatar! said:

Unless there is another Democrat that is likely to appeal to conservatives, I think Biden will be the challenger and I just pray common sense prevails and Trump losses.

I doubt each of those steps individually. (unfortunately)

On a tangent, I don't think the "another... appeal to conservatives" strategy is a good one. Watch out for the ratchet effect.

Edited January 4 by Link

[avatar! | 1,827]

4 minutes ago, Link said:

I doubt each of those steps individually. (unfortunately)

On a tangent, I don't think the "another... appeal to conservatives" strategy is a good one. Watch out for the ratchet effect.

I hear what you're saying, but I would vote for just about anyone or anything over Trump.

[Link | 2,726]

2 hours ago, avatar! said:

I hear what you're saying, but I would vote for just about anyone or anything over Trump.

Practically speaking, I probably will too. But Democrats in Washington are no better when it comes to lobbyists, war, special interests (like the banking and auto industries), public education, and a host of other issues.

They don't want to win, they want to use the bogeymen surrounding abortion and race to get donor funds. It's no wonder they get accused of "identitarian" politics, while giving mere lip service to their supporters who aren't rich. The Republican base votes enthusiastically and in a coordinated manner. Democrats can't consistently garner that kind of support because they don't follow through, or they capitulate too much. Or they don't want to, because then they would have to actually enact the policy goals they campaign on. 

10 hours ago, G-type said:

I think the probability of Biden dropping out is increasing now that he is trailing Trump in quite a few key states. I don't think he particularly WANTS the job again, and is only doing it out of the belief that "he's the only one who can stop Trump".. but if that is gone then he really has nothing to cling to. right now his poll numbers are well below other 1-termers like Carter and Bush Sr.

Who would the Democrats pick for their plan B? something tells me that its going to be a woman. My best guess would be Gretchin Whitmer, although Elizabeth Warren and Amy Klobuchar would be likely to throw their hats in the ring too. Kamala Harris is 100% not going to be it.

I hope Biden would step down with these numbers, but barring some kind of medical incapacitation, I would be surprised. I think he has a problem stepping aside, much like Pelosi and Schumer. And the DNC will support him just as last time and with Clinton before that. 

I haven't heard about anybody considering it aside from Cornell West, and in the protracted campaign cycles of our times, it's getting late. 

[G-type | 2,519]

13 hours ago, Link said:

I hope Biden would step down with these numbers, but barring some kind of medical incapacitation, I would be surprised. I think he has a problem stepping aside, much like Pelosi and Schumer. And the DNC will support him just as last time and with Clinton before that. 

yea, I'd be surprised too.. I just think that the chance is increasing from maybe 10% to 25%

[Reed Rothchild | 9,576]

Hey DNC