The Database: Entry #1 - Abadox: The Deadly Inner War

[Gloves | 11,777]

OK so I started data architecting a database for all you monsters who keep asking for one to be made. Time to put up or... don't?

It's super early days but call me inspired, and I have a two week holiday now, so I decided to start putting together a core framework and I have a base for what I envision could be a meaningful step in the right direction (with some heavy inspiration taken from the old NA database structure).

All good things start somewhere, and so I've made some upfront decisions around cadence. We're going to start with the NES, and we'll do ONE game at a time, gathering as much details on the game as we possibly can. We're starting with Abadox on the NES, because it's a kick-ass game, and I do own it CIB so I can validate some details at least about the North American release.

Note that this is basically a dry-run. I want to see if the desire to gather/collect/store data in this manner is something people are interested in, and can even actually provide details for. If we can't manage or don't want to manage a pretty common game like Abadox, it'll be a sign that it's maybe not meant to be. But that said, if you want this to happen, then you can...

 

Participate!

I'm not sitting on a pile of CIB or sealed NES games. For this to work it needs to be a community effort, and it'll take a lot of help from prolific collectors with (I hope...) nice cameras to take photos. The photos are just one piece of the puzzle of course - we're going to attempt to track rarity ( @ThePhleo can maybe point me in a direction regarding pulling numbers from ebay sales?), variants, regional releases ( @OptOut & @fcgamer please save me from buying a bunch of Famicom games), and more.

Each game will get a thread, and that thread will be our discussion and information gathering place for that game. I'll then curate the data from the thread into the database. As new info comes out later, it can be added to the database of course.

Read down at the bottom of this thread for the current information I'm actively looking to get for the game, and feel free to add/request that I track any other information you can think of which would provide value. Note that I do not want this to be a price tracking database, it's a source of information, not of perceived value.

Anyone who contributes information which lands in the database will be credited by name (VGS username) with a link back to your profile. Which brings me to my next point:

 

Ownership

I want to be transparent and upfront about this as I know folks here may feel they've been burned before (hopefully nobody feels burned by me in particular). The database would follow the same ownership structure as VGS itself - if you provide information to the database, that information is yours. You can copy/paste, repost, share, claim ownership to, and do whatever you want with any information on the database; it's a community thing - please by all means if you want to scrape the data to make your own thing go right ahead (I'd only ask that you credit those who provided the information, and maybe a shout-out to VGS).

In terms of the output of the data, it will likely be it's own separate site (perhaps a subdomain like database.videogamesage.com or similar, TBD). There are no plans at this time to integrate user logins with VGS, so a collection tracker tied directly to VGS isn't currently top of mind. There is, however, a chance that in the future I may monetize some aspect of the database in order to manage costs associated with running such a database. That will likely never means ads, I fuckin' hate ads; what it'd likely mean is some paid access to an API to pull data (or something like that); I wouldn't limit the data you can see as a normal user ever as that goes against the core principles upon which I build things in general which is the free sharing of information. As much as humanly possible it will run on volunteer work and (if necessary) donations. Realistically for the foreseeable future I should be able to run it for completely free using my tech stack, and if it becomes so big it costs me money, that's almost always a good problem to have (for me).

In the case that I ever chose to step away from it, I'd hand over access to the database to a trusted community member, and/or make the database freely available for anyone to copy. I will never sell the database itself. 

 

Ok but what data do we need?

This is the current data I've tossed into some tables on a database. Feel free to provide/request any other data to be added. I don't want it to get too crazy or anything, but let's see what we can meaningfully collect.

Note also that I'm looking for info on variants and regional releases. This includes product numbers etc.; so for Abadox, lemme know: was it released in Japan? PAL? Brazil? Fuckin... Bootlegs ( @fcgamer again!)?

 

Data I'm currently collecting:
Again, feel free to add/request more!

• Game Name (as it is in the given region)
• Region (Canada, USA, GBR, JP, etc.)
• ID (e.g. NES-TY-USA)
• UPC Code
• Variant details (e.g. 3 screw, 5 screw, left bros, etc.)
• Classification (e.g. licensed, unlicensed, bootleg, etc.)
• Publisher
• Developer(s)
• Release date (for this region/release)
• Genre
• Number of players
• Required peripherals
• Images of:
  • The front & back of the cart
  • The front & back of the box
  • The entire manual front to back
  • Anything else relating to the game's physical release
• List of inserts (please be very confident if you're going to provide this)
• Rarity for the:
  • Cartridge
  • Box
  • Manual
  • Inserts

[Gloves | 11,777]

To be sure it's clear: Use this thread both to discuss the idea of making this database happen, AND to submit information relating specifically to Abadox: The Deadly Inner War for the NES/Famicom/etc.. 

[ThePhleo | 2,184]

Release date should have a BIG disclaimer, or have the ability to be generalized.

Some release dates can only be narrowed down to year, others to quarter, others to month, others to month/week, and others to a general couple day window, and then some can even have the exact time of day they were released....some also have no known release date.

Also, before we hit Step 14059 and go straight to variants and inserts, we should get our basic lists setup. Are we doing NES only? If not, then what else?

Generally speaking, we're mostly '80s and '90s dudes here. So here are all the relevant systems to us

Nintendo

• NES
• Super NES
• Nintendo 64
• Gamecube
• Game & Watch
• Game Boy
• Game Boy Color
• Game Boy Advance
• Virtual Boy

Sega

• Master System
• Genesis / CD / 32X
• Saturn
• Dreamcast
• Game Gear

Atari

• 7800
• Jaguar / CD
• Lynx

PlayStation

• PlayStation 1
• PlayStation 2
• PSP

Xbox

• Xbox

Others

• NEC TurboGrafx-16 / CD
• Neo Geo / CD
• Neo Geo Pocket / Color
• 3DO
• CD-i
• Commodore CD32

 

Finally, Abadox is easy.

It only comes with the Oval™ version of the Milton Bradley MIL-NES-US generic poster, and I think any of the four yellow PMG-XX-USA inserts

500 × 500

[The Count | 527]

I'd love a database (especially with a checklist down the road). I am happy to contribute my knowledge as to rarity ratings and pictures. 

[ThePhleo | 2,184]

Oh also, I’d like to see SOMETHING done about merging classifications.

Tengen PAC-Man, Gauntlet, RBI Baseball, and Indiana Jones drive me crazy because they aren’t different games at all. They’re just different release technicalities of the same game. They aren’t even trying to pretend it’s different.

So, maybe have a thing where the database can have two classification things instead of having a third “Licensed / Unlicensed” class it can be “Licensed, Unlicensed”

the Zelda Test Cart which is also just another scenario where this edge case can be useful. Instead of “Licensed / Test” it could be “Licensed, Test”

 

Come to think of it, there are waaaay too many possible classifications of things.

Licensed, Unlicensed, Test, Pirate Original, Pirate Compilation, Competition, Not For Resale, Prototype….then there is release status which is a separate concept.

Cheetahmen II, and the entire 7 game library of the Aladdin Deck Enhancer were never released. They are both unlicensed, and unreleased….but then a THIRD classification is also needed since there are things like Airball which have prototypes that were never manufactured into retail games but if they were then they would be unlicensed….there are licensed unreleased games too.

So, Cheetahmen II should show up in the unlicensed general library since it was manufactured, but not Airball 

Edited December 21, 2022 by ThePhleo

[Gloves | 11,777]

1 minute ago, ThePhleo said:

Oh also, I’d like to see SOMETHING done about merging classifications.

Tengen PAC-Man, Gauntlet, RBI Baseball, and Indiana Jones drive me crazy because they aren’t different games at all. They’re just different release technicalities of the same game. They aren’t even trying to pretend it’s different.

So, maybe have a thing where the database can have two classification things instead of having a third “Licensed / Unlicensed” class it can be “Licensed, Unlicensed”

the Zelda Test Cart which is also just another scenario where this edge case can be useful. Instead of “Licensed / Test” it could be “Licensed, Test”

 

Come to think of it, there are waaaay too many possible classifications of things.

Licensed, Unlicensed, Test, Pirate Original, Pirate Compilation, Competition, Not For Resale, Prototype….then there is release status which is a separate concept.

Cheetahmen II, and the entire 7 game library of the Aladdin Deck Enhancer were never released. They are both unlicensed, and unreleased….but then a THIRD classification is also needed since there are things like Airball which have prototypes that were never manufactured into retail games.

So, Cheetahmen II should show up in the unlicensed general library since it was manufactured, but not Airball 

Sky's the limit technically in terms at least of number of possible classifications - I'd say we don't have to limit ourselves to existing norms, and can forge a new path forward if there's something that makes MORE sense. I want to preserve information relating to these games in as sensible a manner as can be managed. We can also stack classifications.

So yeah, great thoughts! I will say also that everything is being built in a very modular way - classifications for instance can be grown on a case-by-case basis. If I build the database based solely on Abadox for instance, and next month we look at Legend of Zelda, it should be scalable to handle all of the new types of information and classification etc.. 

[ThePhleo | 2,184]

31 minutes ago, Gloves said:

Sky's the limit technically in terms at least of number of possible classifications - I'd say we don't have to limit ourselves to existing norms, and can forge a new path forward if there's something that makes MORE sense. I want to preserve information relating to these games in as sensible a manner as can be managed. We can also stack classifications.

So yeah, great thoughts! I will say also that everything is being built in a very modular way - classifications for instance can be grown on a case-by-case basis. If I build the database based solely on Abadox for instance, and next month we look at Legend of Zelda, it should be scalable to handle all of the new types of information and classification etc.. 

At that rate, by the time we celebrate the NES’s 100th anniversary we should be just about done with the standard 768…in fact we’d be literally just a year away  

[Gloves | 11,777]

10 minutes ago, ThePhleo said:

At that rate, by the time we celebrate the NES’s 100th anniversary we should be just about done with the standard 768…in fact we’d be literally just a year away  

Lol just about eh?

I'd like to do the threads at about every 1-2 weeks, but of course everyone could keep adding new details to older entries. I feel like just saying "Go ham!" at the whole library right out of the gate might be overwhelming, but there might come a time where we decide to open those flood gates.

It's a community effort and 100% open to suggestions on how to run it. I'd probably also eventually be looking for help w/ data entry, in case you're interested when the time comes.

[ZeldaFreak | 3,600]

13 minutes ago, ThePhleo said:

Not For Resale

I was gonna say, ping me once we get to N64 Not For Resales, as that's the one VERY specific niche I might be able to help out with a bit, haha. That and perhaps Ocarina of Time variants, as that's what originally got me in to collecting in the first place, seeing so many different variants of the same game blew my mind at the time.

I can't help at all with this particular game, I know nothing about it, but I will quickly throw in my two cents in regards to NFRs and whatnot, that perhaps we could have a sort of umbrella "Promotional" categorization? So, stuff like promo games, demo discs, NFRs, any versions of games that were, in one way or another, meant to advertise, promote, and/or sell the game in question to consumers. I think that'd make sense, and I think it would be important to have at least a few umbrella categories like that that merge a few different, more niche categories together, just to not make it too overwhelming to look through with like 45 different categories upfront. Obviously we could still probably have some sub-categories or whatnot, so within the Promotional category they'd still be separated by NFR, demo, promo, etc, it'd just be less immediately overwhelming upfront which I think would be important for a hypothetically gigantic database like this.

Honestly though, I think it's not super super important at this exact moment, as just documenting all the info about these games in one, central location and getting that done in the first place is far more important than debating what labels we should put them all under I think, this was just a quick thought I had in regards to NFRs and how we'd go about classifying variants like those.

Either way, I'm honestly really glad to see we're taking an honest shot at this, kinda thought I'd never see the day we'd try to build this all from the ground up again. I'd argue VGS as a whole has already surpassed what NA was, no reason to think the same can't apply to a similar database. Distinctly similar, but distinctly better. We can definitely do it, just gotta really collaborate and put in the work.

...Because it is gonna be a LOT of work, especially if we're taking it one game at a time, haha. I do think if this gets more traction (fingers crossed) having a general... submissions thread, for lack of a better word, would be hugely important to have. So, for people like me who know a good bit about a very particular niche, or very specific game or set of games, we can just submit the info we have on the game(s) in to the "general" thread, and those can be added to the database whenever we get to it. Rather than us having to wait for an "official" thread on the game(s) to be posted before we can finally document the info we have.

Anyway, I think that's about all the immediate thoughts I have on this, just very happy to see we're genuinely taking a crack at this. No reason not to try, worst case scenario it kinda fizzles out due to lack of interest or whatever and hey, we're just back to where we are right now anyway, no harm no foul.

[ZeldaFreak | 3,600]

9 minutes ago, Gloves said:

I'd probably also eventually be looking for help w/ data entry, in case you're interested when the time comes.

I was actually about to say, I'd definitely be down to help out with that if I can, if nothing else just to help move this whole thing along a bit quicker so we don't necessarily have to spend decades on it, haha. Or at least not quite as many decades.

[Gloves | 11,777]

1 minute ago, ZeldaFreak said:

I was actually about to say, I'd definitely be down to help out with that if I can, if nothing else just to help move this whole thing along a bit quicker so we don't necessarily have to spend decades on it, haha. Or at least not quite as many decades.

Step one for sure is to gauge interest and find the right cadence to get SOMETHING up. 

I see no reason it couldn't extend to other consoles than the NES in the nearish future, I just need to put guardrails up before we get too ambitious and end up with like 10 NES games, a bootleg, a SNES homebrew, and 30 N64 games. 

[ZeldaFreak | 3,600]

1 minute ago, Gloves said:

Step one for sure is to gauge interest and find the right cadence to get SOMETHING up. 

I see no reason it couldn't extend to other consoles than the NES in the nearish future, I just need to put guardrails up before we get too ambitious and end up with like 10 NES games, a bootleg, a SNES homebrew, and 30 N64 games. 

Yeah, obviously we're taking tiny little baby steps right now which makes sense, just wanted to share some overall thoughts about it that might be more relevant in the future.

[Tanooki | 4,933]

This seems like a good project to finally dig into.

Maybe long term we could take the existing thread for the side junk, like the Nintendo Power archive (and Fun Club) and make those official with what's inside, perhaps a scan of the table of contents and cover, posters, insert oddities, etc.

 

I'm not sure how far I could go into NES help, some sure, but I don't shelf hoard stuff.  When it gets to it I have enough common to odd import and other things between various formats from NES through GBA/GC.

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

Fully support this. Whatever I can do to help - Photos, looking in my copies etc. Just lmk.

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

@Gloves great idea, I will look to input and help where I can. 

[TDIRunner | 2,737]

I hope this works out and good luck with the project.  I completely understand why you would want to start with NES.  With that said, I probably won't have much involvement in this part of the project.  Not because I don't want to help, but because I just don't have the information that you would need.  If and when you ever get to a point where you might be working on PS1, I will gladly become heavily involved in the areas I can help with.  

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

• Game Name (as it is in the given region): Abadox: The Deadly Inner War
• Region (Canada, USA, GBR, JP, etc.): USA
• ID (e.g. NES-TY-USA): NES-A3-USA
• Classification (e.g. licensed, unlicensed, bootleg, etc.): Licensed
• Publisher: Milton Bradley
• Developer(s): Natsume
• Release date (for this region/release): March 1990
• Genre: Shooter
• Number of players: 1
• Required peripherals: None
• List of inserts (please be very confident if you're going to provide this): 2 insert lists confirmed to exist. The Nintendo Power sub-card is the only difference, and there were several from that particular year, so there's probably a couple more feasible options for that particular insert as well.
  
  - Cartridge (NES-A3-USA)
  - Box (NES-A3-USA)
  - Manual (NES-A3-USA)
  - California Games Poster (MIL-NES-US)
  - Nintendo Power Subscription Card (PMG-PT-USA)
  - Flat Black Dust Sleeve
  
  - Cartridge (NES-A3-USA)
  - Box (NES-A3-USA)
  - Manual (NES-A3-USA)
  - California Games Poster (MIL-NES-US)
  - Nintendo Power Subscription Card (PMG-BB-USA)
  - Flat Black Dust Sleeve
• Mapper Type: MMC1
• Board Type: SLROM
• Board Variation: NES-SLROM-05

Source Links: NES Cart Database; NES Game Contents FAQ

[sp1nz | 612]

Plenty of data already exists for US NES - it can be an issue of approval from authors of merging/migrating (due to potential copyright) into a VGS database but at the very least these threads can be used for checking validity of posts purporting to game release contents of certain variants. A database can start with a slow build-up while working out the kinks but it definitely shouldn't be bottlenecked for too many years or people might never get the full benefit of the database existing to begin with.

[fcgamer | 4,723]

I can help with the Famicom side of things. Abadox is actually quite hard to find as a copy cartridge on Famicom (copy cartridge would be what by your definition is a pirate, I think).

For anything relating to pirate / bootleg / counterfeit / unlicensed / copied / unauthorized games / Hong Kong originals, I think it would have to be nailed down what particular terms to use to describe what particular items, and for me personally, I am not sure that the current VGS definitions would work. There's just a lot of unnecessary baggage connected to some of them, in the same way that some folks find the word "oriental" to be inappropriate in the modern age due to the unnecessary feeling of incense and temples and exoticism that it has attached with it.

[Link | 2,710]

22 hours ago, Gloves said:

In terms of the output of the data, it will likely be it's own separate site (perhaps a subdomain like database.videogamesage.com or similar, TBD).

Subdomain for sure. So that it's clear VGS is the source. I think that helps attract more people to the site. I definitely joined NA because as I was starting to collect NES, my web searches kept leading me to info there. 

[Code Monkey | 2,008]

I'm disappointed I wasn't included. I wasn't ready to release this yet but I've been working on an Android application to do just this (and track your collection) for the past few weeks. It'll contain games separated by print run (not just variants) by date and a lot more. If I'm allowed to scrape some of the information from here with credit, then I will also contribute to this where I can. I did just buy the second rarest NES manual last night so I'll have photos of that soon.

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

15 hours ago, Code Monkey said:

I'm disappointed I wasn't included. I wasn't ready to release this yet but I've been working on an Android application to do just this (and track your collection) for the past few weeks. It'll contain games separated by print run (not just variants) by date and a lot more. If I'm allowed to scrape some of the information from here with credit, then I will also contribute to this where I can. I did just buy the second rarest NES manual last night so I'll have photos of that soon.

I can't speak for everyone's data, but you're free to use the sealed contents list for any noncommercial purpose you see fit.

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

On 12/22/2022 at 11:06 AM, Code Monkey said:

I'm disappointed I wasn't included.

This thread is literally inviting you to be included.

[Link | 2,710]

On 12/22/2022 at 11:06 AM, Code Monkey said:

I'm disappointed I wasn't included. I wasn't ready to release this yet 

Did you post about it somewhere?

[Code Monkey | 2,008]

9 hours ago, Link said:

Did you post about it somewhere?

No, I wasn't ready to. More information will come when I have some screens to show.