DefaultGen | 5,436 Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 7 hours ago, Tanooki said: I saw the classic piece of music Vampire Killer as an auction piece, but like...you don't really own it, but like can attach your name for a year as some co-dependent non-owner? Seems like some bs fake ownership scam to raise some money. Surely these is some magic crypto way to subdivide ownership of an NFT to provide fractional ownership of it. You can make... Vampire Killer NFT tokens and... smart contracts... I don't know how crypto works but I know that's a thing. And no, not everyone would get their own copy of Vampire Killer. Everyone would have 1/4000th of the same copy of Vampire Killer of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefaultGen | 5,436 Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 Wait... my scheme makes NFTs sound... FUNGIBLE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RegularGuyGamer | 2,018 Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 19 hours ago, Code Monkey said: The future of online retail is taking your personal avatar on a shopping trip into the Metaverse Mall, trying on the clothing and purchasing the digital NFT clothing asset from that mall. Then the retailer ships you the physical item. That's the future on online retail. How were you when you wrote this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulpa | 3,537 Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 When I read threads like this, I'm more and more convinced Code Monkey is some sort of AI that keeps wondering why us meatsacks can't use our quantum processors to solve problems with pure, cold logic. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanooki | 4,953 Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 @RH @Dr. Morbis @DefaultGen Ugh...so I basically did read that legal garbage pasta correctly enough to get the idea. Usually I'm pretty good at that, but this one was so looped around itself, clearly like some ninja magic smoke bomb type logic it threw me. I mean I get it, you have patsy types into this who digital money bit who then throw it around like water to see what sticks as an opportunity of sorts. It's nothing exactly new either owning some pathetic sliver of a share of some actual real thing, a recent one would be a Pawn Stars episode where Rick owned momentarily an original copy of the Declaration of Independence, but then as to not actually pay for it, he sold it to this company CEO who peddles the items like stocks in a company and your get X amount of shares which is what RIck did, kept a $50K(I think) portion. My problem isn't owning a piece of the pie, but in this case, you still don't own crap. What Konami is doing is fairly disgusting, there's no ownership, no use of ownership, just being able to say you own it, and only for a year, before that license expires. I guess I shouldn't be surprised, that's how game companies are now, wanting full digital control so they can take it away for any reason after a period, which is exactly what this NFT for Konami goods are. They put a buy (or in this case AUCTION) button on there, but it really means RENT, and in this case you're RENTING a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OptOut | 8,892 Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 5 hours ago, DoctorEncore said: I actually think gaming and NFTs are the perfect marriage of technologies. The only thing cooler than having a badass legendary item, super cool virtual house, or a really slick skin is being the ONLY person with that thing. MMOs immediately jump to mind as fertile grounds for this technology, but it could easily be applied to cosmetics or a myriad of other things within any PvP or PvE framework Only thing is, this can be done right now using current technology, no NFTs necessary. Items tied to players accounts which can then be transferred, sold or traded to other players for real-world money are nothing new. There have already been many cases of highly valuable rare, even unique items being traded between players. NFTs do nothing to improve on that process, they are a solution looking for a problem to solve, and a highly wasteful solution at that! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorEncore | 3,691 Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 12 hours ago, OptOut said: Only thing is, this can be done right now using current technology, no NFTs necessary. Items tied to players accounts which can then be transferred, sold or traded to other players for real-world money are nothing new. There have already been many cases of highly valuable rare, even unique items being traded between players. NFTs do nothing to improve on that process, they are a solution looking for a problem to solve, and a highly wasteful solution at that! True, but having the item verifiable on the blockchain gives true ownership to the user. If you just "own" it in-game, the developer could take it away from you at any time, for essentially any reason. They could also just create another one with identical stats and sell it in their marketplace. We all know you sign your life away when you agree to TOS for an online game. If the item is verifiable on the blockchain and attached to your wallet, then it's truly yours. Even if the developers mint another one, you can definitively prove yours was the first. Presence on a decentralized network also opens up the economy. Buying and selling can occur anywhere rather than just within the game store and you won't be forced to pay a fee to the game developer. So basically, it's just better for the player to have true ownership outside of the actual game. Also, regarding energy consumption and waste, that's only really a problem on Ethereum. There are multiple proof of stake networks which are extremely fast and cheap, e.g. Solana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloves | 11,843 Administrator · Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 9 minutes ago, DoctorEncore said: True, but having the item verifiable on the blockchain gives true ownership to the user. If you just "own" it in-game, the developer could take it away from you at any time, for essentially any reason. They could also just create another one with identical stats and sell it in their marketplace. We all know you sign your life away when you agree to TOS for an online game. If the item is verifiable on the blockchain and attached to your wallet, then it's truly yours. Even if the developers mint another one, you can definitively prove yours was the first. Presence on a decentralized network also opens up the economy. Buying and selling can occur anywhere rather than just within the game store and you won't be forced to pay a fee to the game developer. So basically, it's just better for the player to have true ownership outside of the actual game. Also, regarding energy consumption and waste, that's only really a problem on Ethereum. There are multiple proof of stake networks which are extremely fast and cheap, e.g. Solana. Regarding true ownership and companies taking things away from you: Are you aware of how this Konami NFT thing works? I'll admit I've not personally read the terms, and I just woke up so I forget who, but someone on here was saying that you only actually get to "own" what you win in this auction for a year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Pac | 7,590 Graphics Team · Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 I've got a totally-not-bootleg, R@RE Konami NFT fresh-out-the-photoshop for the highest bidder. WOW! This is, like, the Mario 64 of NFTs right here, boys... ...and don't even THINK about just saving this image to your computer without paying me some fat crypto stacks, cuz I'll call the cops and tell your mom on you. -CasualCart 3 3 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeldaFreak | 3,619 Events Team · Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 26 minutes ago, CasualCart said: I've got a totally-not-bootleg, R@RE Konami NFT fresh-out-the-photoshop for the highest bidder. WOW! This is, like, the Mario 64 of NFTs right here, boys... ...and don't even THINK about just saving this image to your computer without paying me some fat crypto stacks, cuz I'll call the cops and tell your mom on you. -CasualCart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorEncore | 3,691 Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 1 hour ago, CasualCart said: I've got a totally-not-bootleg, R@RE Konami NFT fresh-out-the-photoshop for the highest bidder. WOW! This is, like, the Mario 64 of NFTs right here, boys... ...and don't even THINK about just saving this image to your computer without paying me some fat crypto stacks, cuz I'll call the cops and tell your mom on you. -CasualCart I right-click saved it and now I own it too. I'm rich! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorEncore | 3,691 Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 3 hours ago, Gloves said: Regarding true ownership and companies taking things away from you: Are you aware of how this Konami NFT thing works? I'll admit I've not personally read the terms, and I just woke up so I forget who, but someone on here was saying that you only actually get to "own" what you win in this auction for a year. No, if you buy it, you own it. There is no way for them to take it away. If you read the terms, there is some silly "Nickname" thing where your name is displayed next to a picture of the NFT on their website for a year. I'm not sure why anyone would care, but I'm guessing that's what was referenced earlier in the thread. If you read the fine print, you'll also see that they reserve the right to mint additional copies of the exact same image/gif/bgm at any time. Of course, you would always have the first one and this would be easily provable on the blockchain, but still... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloves | 11,843 Administrator · Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 33 minutes ago, DoctorEncore said: No, if you buy it, you own it. There is no way for them to take it away. If you read the terms, there is some silly "Nickname" thing where your name is displayed next to a picture of the NFT on their website for a year. I'm not sure why anyone would care, but I'm guessing that's what was referenced earlier in the thread. If you read the fine print, you'll also see that they reserve the right to mint additional copies of the exact same image/gif/bgm at any time. Of course, you would always have the first one and this would be easily provable on the blockchain, but still... Ok thanks for clarifying. I've been a bit too busy to read the terms or verify anything about that from this thread so I appreciate your doing that legwork. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacepup | 2,412 Administrator · Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 So you don't get any IP rights with the picture or music you are "buying," which begs the question, what do you actually "own?" I know you own the NFT and it's recorded on the blockchain and yada yada yada, but it certainly doesn't feel like ownership in any meaningful sense of the word. It feels like all you get is bragging rights that you paid lots of money for the claim that you own something without any true substantial ownership. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorEncore | 3,691 Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 37 minutes ago, spacepup said: So you don't get any IP rights with the picture or music you are "buying," which begs the question, what do you actually "own?" I know you own the NFT and it's recorded on the blockchain and yada yada yada, but it certainly doesn't feel like ownership in any meaningful sense of the word. It feels like all you get is bragging rights that you paid lots of money for the claim that you own something without any true substantial ownership. Yeah, that's why this type of NFT stuff is dumb. It's just Konami testing the waters with a quick cash grab. I'm bet they'll pull in $50k at least. Maybe significantly more. A lot of people made "millions" on crypto, but they have no way to cash out. That's the biggest reason for these insane NFT sales, imo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenjikuronin | 1,755 Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OptOut | 8,892 Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 11 hours ago, DoctorEncore said: True, but having the item verifiable on the blockchain gives true ownership to the user. If you just "own" it in-game, the developer could take it away from you at any time, for essentially any reason. They could also just create another one with identical stats and sell it in their marketplace. We all know you sign your life away when you agree to TOS for an online game. If the item is verifiable on the blockchain and attached to your wallet, then it's truly yours. Even if the developers mint another one, you can definitively prove yours was the first. Presence on a decentralized network also opens up the economy. Buying and selling can occur anywhere rather than just within the game store and you won't be forced to pay a fee to the game developer. So basically, it's just better for the player to have true ownership outside of the actual game. How do you truly own the item simply buy owning the NFT? If the game developers shut the game servers down, the item dies with it and the NFT pointing to it points to nothing. NFTS do no more to convey true ownership than a charge on your credit card bill, or the receipt you get from a store. The in-game assets are not contained within the NFT, cannot be extricated from the game code and transferred, nor saved or wrested from the interference and total control of the developer. The NFT itself adds nothing to the process, other than as you said perhaps it's easier to sell outside the game? But the developers would presumably have to verify the NFT sale to link the item with the new player who bought it, so even then you would still be tied into the game's internal systems to actually complete a transaction... It's bunk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorEncore | 3,691 Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 2 hours ago, OptOut said: How do you truly own the item simply buy owning the NFT? If the game developers shut the game servers down, the item dies with it and the NFT pointing to it points to nothing. NFTS do no more to convey true ownership than a charge on your credit card bill, or the receipt you get from a store. The in-game assets are not contained within the NFT, cannot be extricated from the game code and transferred, nor saved or wrested from the interference and total control of the developer. The NFT itself adds nothing to the process, other than as you said perhaps it's easier to sell outside the game? But the developers would presumably have to verify the NFT sale to link the item with the new player who bought it, so even then you would still be tied into the game's internal systems to actually complete a transaction... It's bunk. Actually, the data can be encoded on the blockchain. Usually it is not, but it is possible to do so. As for the other things you mentioned, absolutely. I'm not saying NFTs are the best thing since sliced bread, but they already have utility and people will continue to find new use cases. Completely writing them off would be foolish. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkTone | 988 Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 11 hours ago, CasualCart said: I've got a totally-not-bootleg, R@RE Konami NFT fresh-out-the-photoshop for the highest bidder. WOW! This is, like, the Mario 64 of NFTs right here, boys... ...and don't even THINK about just saving this image to your computer without paying me some fat crypto stacks, cuz I'll call the cops and tell your mom on you. -CasualCart Sparkster love. Excellent 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OptOut | 8,892 Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 (edited) 28 minutes ago, DoctorEncore said: Actually, the data can be encoded on the blockchain. Usually it is not, but it is possible to do so. From what I've heard, encoding more than a couple kilobytes of data directly onto the Blockchain is massively expensive, like I mean in the tens of thousands of dollars for a few Megabytes. I guess that could change as the technology develops, but you would still have to find an engine to re-render the in-game items outside the game itself, which game developers probably wouldn't be too happy with if that's proprietary software they use to create the game in the first place... And then you have to ask what value does an in-game item hold outside the context of the game itself, even if you COULD do that. From my point of view, the ONLY thing I think is cool about an NFT is the fact it can pay royalties to the original creator every time it's resold. I think this is a GENUINELY good use of the technology, because it rewards the original creator continually, if their work increases in prominence and value, which very often in the current world does not happen. Other than that, it's really just valueless in my opinion. The NFT as it is currently employed removes POSSESSION from the concept of ownership. That is a massive and TERRIBLE backwards step from the point of view of the consumer, even WORSE in fact than stuff like DLC and microtransactions, due to how eminently exploitable they have proven to be. Edited January 9, 2022 by OptOut 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inasuma | 1,206 Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 On 1/6/2022 at 6:49 PM, MrWunderful said: I am so sick of hearing about NFTs. The younger guys all talk about them constantly lol. Sounds like a big pyramid scheme to me. Hard pass! It’s great if you’re selling lmaooo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart010 | 1,708 Posted January 10, 2022 Author Share Posted January 10, 2022 (edited) On 1/8/2022 at 1:45 PM, CasualCart said: I've got a totally-not-bootleg, R@RE Konami NFT fresh-out-the-photoshop for the highest bidder. WOW! This is, like, the Mario 64 of NFTs right here, boys... ...and don't even THINK about just saving this image to your computer without paying me some fat crypto stacks, cuz I'll call the cops and tell your mom on you. -CasualCart No joke, you could literally take all of your artwork that you have posted on this site and sell them as an NFT collection for hundreds of thousands of dollars. My brother made a Cardano NFT collection called moth man and he’s not even an artist. He’s made tens of thousands of dollars selling these crappy pictures already @CasualCart Edited January 10, 2022 by phart010 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkTone | 988 Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 Die NFT! You don't belong in this world.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart010 | 1,708 Posted January 11, 2022 Author Share Posted January 11, 2022 6 hours ago, DarkTone said: Die NFT! You don't belong in this world.... If people want to hand their money over for this crap, I say give them what they want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Pac | 7,590 Graphics Team · Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 22 hours ago, phart010 said: No joke, you could literally take all of your artwork that you have posted on this site and sell them as an NFT collection for hundreds of thousands of dollars. My brother made a Cardano NFT collection called moth man and he’s not even an artist. He’s made tens of thousands of dollars selling these crappy pictures already @CasualCart Haha as temping as that sounds, NFTs and crypto are killing the environment in a big way. I'd rather have trees and polar bears around when I'm 50 than have some extra cash right now... -CasualCart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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