Hu7 | 1 Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 Alot of the big collectors that we have seen with the games that are the best in the world... Almost all were vga graded. So to dismiss vga sounds silly when they are the ones people trusted grading the best games in the world. Also it seems like the people that benefitted most by this are the ones that are going great lengths to back this new movement. I understand it.... They made hundreds of thousands of dollars because of Wata, Heritage, and the news stories created by this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWunderful | 2,927 Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, Hu7 said: Alot of the big collectors that we have seen with the games that are the best in the world... Almost all were vga graded. So to dismiss vga sounds silly when they are the ones people trusted grading the best games in the world. Also it seems like the people that benefitted most by this are the ones that are going great lengths to back this new movement. I understand it.... They made hundreds of thousands of dollars because of Wata, Heritage, and the news stories created by this. They were VGA graded because that was the only grading company lol. VGA cases dont have the same level of security as the Wata cases. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hu7 | 1 Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 1 minute ago, MrWunderful said: They were VGA graded because that was the only grading company lol. VGA cases dont have the same level of security as the Wata cases. Ok but they trusted vga with their games. You can look up any vga serial number and check it. You can also look at what you are buying and use your own judgement. That is another one of those wata talking points I was talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinusWorlds | 193 Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 27 minutes ago, Hu7 said: Man... The amount of anti vga talking points ive heard from wata supporters through this whole fiasco is clearly THE personal crusade. It’s been non stop and the majority of people see right through it. I get it. Let’s get this new grading company up and rolling. Let’s create a group of talking points to get new money into wata instead of vga. This thread isn’t even about vga.... there is no need for that. There is a need for that. Wata is a grading company. They do it better than VGA IMO. That’s what we should be talking about. Not who is an investor, Director, or board member. Who cares?? 90% of this thread is bashing Wata but you thinks it’s an anti-VGA crusade? Okay... And yes I’m a Wata supporter, I’m also a VGA supporter, but when then same people keep bashing Wata on a pointless grading decision, and fail to mention VGA’s massive flaws (that they’re well aware of) it becomes a problem. I’m sure you’d rather I just sat down and kept quiet. No thank you. I will continue to use VGA as I have for almost ten years. I’ll continue to use Wata as well. I’ll just utilize each for different things and play to each’s strength. The funny part is, the people that should be mostly upset about what Wata has created are those who have been sealed and CIB collecting for years. People who are being priced out of that side of the hobby. The side of the hobby they take part in Guess what? That’s me. I’m literally getting priced out of that side of the hobby because of the new collectors Wata brought in. I’m fine with that. It does suck but it was inevitable if the hobby was going to thrive. I want the hoody to thrive. Some people can’t see the forest through the trees and it’s a shame. I’d put money MOST of the people with gripes or who keep fanning the flames are not even graded game collectors. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doner24 | 1,197 Moderator · Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, MinusWorlds said: There is a need for that. Wata is a grading company. They do it better than VGA IMO. That’s what we should be talking about. Not who is an investor, Director, or board member. Who cares?? 90% of this thread is bashing Wata but you thinks it’s an anti-VGA crusade? Okay... And yes I’m a Wata supporter, I’m also a VGA supporter, but when then same people keep bashing Wata on a pointless grading decision, and fail to mention VGA’s massive flaws (that they’re well aware of) it becomes a problem. I’m sure you’d rather I just sat down and kept quiet. No thank you. I will continue to use VGA as I have for almost ten years. I’ll continue to use Wata as well. I’ll just utilize each for different things and play to each’s strength. The funny part is, the people that should be mostly upset about what Wata has created are those who have been sealed and CIB collecting for years. People who are being priced out of that side of the hobby. The side of the hobby they take part in Guess what? That’s me. I’m literally getting priced out of that side of the hobby because of the new collectors Wata brought in. I’m fine with that. It does suck but it was inevitable if the hobby was going to thrive. I want the hoody to thrive. Some people can’t see the forest through the trees and it’s a shame. I’d put money MOST of the people with gripes or who keep fanning the flames are not even graded game collectors. I’d say there has actually been very little bashing of anyone the last couple days of the thread, rather people trying to figure out the organizational web of Wata and offer some insight from outsiders. Having 2 graders is good for the hobby for those interested in slabbed games. Competition usually forces companies to up their service. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWunderful | 2,927 Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 6 minutes ago, Hu7 said: Ok but they trusted vga with their games. You can look up any vga serial number and check it. You can also look at what you are buying and use your own judgement. That is another one of those wata talking points I was talking about. What talking point? I discovered that with my own research. Please explain to me how that is a talking point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rman | 23 Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 Can we talk about the Wata cases? Why they gotta be so huge??! Anyone notice scratches on the inner blisters? I hope they fix that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinusWorlds | 193 Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 12 minutes ago, Hu7 said: Alot of the big collectors that we have seen with the games that are the best in the world... Almost all were vga graded. So to dismiss vga sounds silly when they are the ones people trusted grading the best games in the world. Also it seems like the people that benefitted most by this are the ones that are going great lengths to back this new movement. I understand it.... They made hundreds of thousands of dollars because of Wata, Heritage, and the news stories created by this. I don’t summarily dismiss VGA. They do a lot of things great. Some things they aren’t qualified to do. Period. I was one of VGA’s biggest supporters for many years. I wrote the guide on NA for how to submit and utilize VGA. I have a great relationship with their employees. Their customer service is outstanding and I believe them to be good people. However, when it comes to grading I believe Wata has done it better, they’re more secure, more consistent and have a better ability to identify fakes. That is what I care about. I have sold precisely 3 Wata games. 3. And last I checked I’m not getting hundreds of thousands of dollars for those. I have also sold prob over a hundred VGA games. And made a good amount on those. So why am I here talking about VGA’s faults? Because I think people need to be a lot more objective and know facts before they try and tear down a company that has bettered the grading part of the hobby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hu7 | 1 Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, MrWunderful said: What talking point? I discovered that with my own research. Please explain to me how that is a talking point. The whole: Vga cases you can tamper with. You can open a vga case and put a fake inside (Insert pic of the Wrong game in a vga case here) wata cases are secure.. That is an anti vga talking point.. I've heard it over and over, and only in anti vga rants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinusWorlds | 193 Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 5 minutes ago, Rman said: Can we talk about the Wata cases? Why they gotta be so huge??! Anyone notice scratches on the inner blisters? I hope they fix that. Agreed. I prefer the clean lines of the VGA case for sure. It’d be great if the two cases just made a baby. We could call it a VAGA case. Actually, that’s prob not a good idea. Let’s skip that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hu7 | 1 Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, MinusWorlds said: I don’t summarily dismiss VGA. They do a lot of things great. Some things they aren’t qualified to do. Period. I was one of VGA’s biggest supporters for many years. I wrote the guide on NA for how to submit and utilize VGA. I have a great relationship with their employees. Their customer service is outstanding and I believe them to be good people. However, when it comes to grading I believe Wata has done it better, they’re more secure, more consistent and have a better ability to identify fakes. That is what I care about. I have sold precisely 3 Wata games. 3. And last I checked I’m not getting hundreds of thousands of dollars for those. I have also sold prob over a hundred VGA games. And made a good amount on those. So why am I here talking about VGA’s faults? Because I think people need to be a lot more objective and know facts before they try and tear down a company that has bettered the grading part of the hobby. Right.. that is exactly my point as well. Know the facts before tearing down vga also.. I’m not specifically talking about you or this thread. im talking about the straight year of bashing and absolute hate by wata supporters trying to build up wata reputation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWunderful | 2,927 Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 6 minutes ago, Hu7 said: The whole: Vga cases you can tamper with. You can open a vga case and put a fake inside (Insert pic of the Wrong game in a vga case here) wata cases are secure.. That is an anti vga talking point.. I've heard it over and over, and only in anti vga rants. So are you saying its not true? just because something is negative doesnt mean it isnt true. VGA cases are no where near as secure. Period. Call it a talking point, I call it “facts”. I prefer the VGA aesthetics, but security and information listing of WATA. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinusWorlds | 193 Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 5 minutes ago, Hu7 said: Right.. that is exactly my point as well. Know the facts before tearing down vga also.. I’m not specifically talking about you or this thread. im talking about the straight year of bashing and absolute hate by wata supporters trying to build up wata reputation. Understood. I’m not trying to build-up Wata at the expense of VGA and I agree there’s no place for that. When it comes to VGA issues I do know the facts. I posted about the Q issue with VGA on NA and people lost their minds claiming I didn’t bring evidence to the table and implied I was lying or just trying to knock VGA. That’s fine. I’ve had the “evidence” for awhile and honestly didn’t care enough to drag up that body just to prove a point. However, when I constantly gotta hear about that stupid Wata Jaws game and not hear about VGA’s flaws I thought it would be a good time to revisit that, but provide the evidence people wanted. I did that. The evidence I provided is irrefutable and clear. Had people not been screaming about that damn Jaws I would have been content sticking to the main talking points. But, when people have to repeatedly bring up silly talking points just to bring down Wata I’m going to respond with some leveling of the playing field. Because I believe we can have 2 grading companies do well in this hobby. And I sincerely hope that continues but it’s very important to know the pros and cons of each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonebone | 1,307 Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 At least the anti VGA stuff has cooled a bit over the last 6 months I'd say. Before that I'd agree that the some of the pro Wata crew were putting down VGA at every chance possible. That's silly, you should be collecting games and not grading companies. Each had pros cons and you decide what you prefer. As for Jaws you can call it whatever you want, its nothing that I would ever want, may as well be a player's choice copy. The problem lies that lots of us can be experts in a lot of stuff but no one can be an expert in everything. Yet a grading authority is supposed to be. Everyone has a swim lane that they know like the back of their hand, but you have to have a large respected network to certify all things under the sun. And that's kinda my point. Just because you can cerify something doesn't always mean you should. If they want to put their name on the line by searching down emails and old wives tales about who owned what and where, good for them. But that gets you into trouble. For all of the anti VGA things I seem to recall them authenticating an Atari homebrew as a prototype or something absurd. Once again... stretching outside their swim lane. @MrMark0673 touched on it here, theres two Wata clu clus that are identical, one called a test cart and one called a sample. What is it? Obviously a bit outside their main swim lane and authenticating stuff you arent 100.0% positive about will certainly not help your brand image. The whole concept behind a grading authority is consistency and that's already an inconsistent grade... There's three options on a game. Certify as authentic, reject as fake or reject as indeterminable. They clearly have decided that they are willing to stand behind a 3rd party LJN president sealing games as authentic without an H seam. I wouldn't put my name on the line for that but to each their own. I didnt agree with VGA Q grading and I don't agree with Wata sealed games graded as No Seal either. But that's the beauty of the internet, we all have our own opinions. If you dont agree with mine that's doesn't bother me at all. I'm just thankful that I have enough insight to decide what I want to collect on my own, without being exploited thru marketing to tell me what I should desire. Even as the market prices people out of certain things, savvy collectors can always find things worth buying. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zi | 144 Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 This WATA created a hobby based on condition- the object itself is irrelevant. I love playing the NES and am keeping my blinders on gaming the instead of investing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m308gunner | 352 Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 8 hours ago, MinusWorlds said: The funny part is, the people that should be mostly upset about what Wata has created are those who have been sealed and CIB collecting for years. People who are being priced out of that side of the hobby. The side of the hobby they take part in Guess what? That’s me. I’m literally getting priced out of that side of the hobby because of the new collectors Wata brought in. I’m fine with that. It does suck but it was inevitable if the hobby was going to thrive. I want the hoody to thrive. Some people can’t see the forest through the trees and it’s a shame. I’d put money MOST of the people with gripes or who keep fanning the flames are not even graded game collectors. Yup. And on behalf of said group I'd just like to voice my genuine (and ultimately futile) objection to the price of said items. I'm not fine with it, but seeing as there's nothing I can do but flail online in impotent nerd-angst... Not supper mad either, 'cause capitalism+freedom=awesome, but would REALLY like to snag decent (not even mint!) CIBs that don't make me wince. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinusWorlds | 193 Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 1 hour ago, m308gunner said: Yup. And on behalf of said group I'd just like to voice my genuine (and ultimately futile) objection to the price of said items. I'm not fine with it, but seeing as there's nothing I can do but flail online in impotent nerd-angst... Not supper mad either, 'cause capitalism+freedom=awesome, but would REALLY like to snag decent (not even mint!) CIBs that don't make me wince. I hear ya dude. I 100% understand your stance. I’m in the same boat dude. I was lucky to snag a bunch of stuff years ago so at least I have that. I have 3 grails. Always have. They are: sealed hangtab Kid Icarus sealed hangtab Castlevania sealed hangtab Ice Climber A few years ago I could have made a play on any of those if they came up for sale. There’s no shame for me in saying I can’t do that anymore. I’m priced out. Yes it sucks. It sucks bad. I have chased those games for almost 20 years. Think about that. That’s insane. It’s a tough pill to swallow knowing my chances of ever having even 1 of those have now all but disappeared. But, regardless I’m happy the hobby is where it is, and I’m happy some of my friends are having success. It took some soul-searching to come to terms with all of this. I questioned throwing in the towel and walking away. I was close, but ultimately the community is why I’m here. And that doesn’t change just because I don’t have what I want on my shelf. In fact, the Socks poster we all signed hangs on my wall and it will always be more valuable to me than any game could be. That’s why I stayed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m308gunner | 352 Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 1 minute ago, MinusWorlds said: I hear ya dude. I 100% understand your stance. I’m in the same boat dude. I was lucky to snag a bunch of stuff years ago so at least I have that. I have 3 grails. Always have. They are: sealed hangtab Kid Icarus ... But, regardless I’m happy the hobby is where it is, and I’m happy some of my friends are having success. It took some soul-searching to come to terms with all of this. I questioned throwing in the towel and walking away. I was close, but ultimately the community is why I’m here. And that doesn’t change just because I don’t have what I want on my shelf. In fact, the Socks poster we all signed hangs on my wall and it will always be more valuable to me than any game could be. That’s why I stayed. First off, Secondly, I totally forgot about that Socks project! Holy $#!? it's been a hell of a ... when did that get released? A few years ago?! Maaaaaaaaaaaan... Welp, not too surprising I guess. In the time since we had that signing party I've moved twice, lost a job, gained a job, bought a house and had a new kid. God, I need to go to bed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portabello | 99 Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 They are like the Pitchfork.com of graded video games. I can see where they have an enthusiastic perspective that’s deeply rooted in the hobby, but personally I can’t get on board with their “point” system. Seems too big of a grading scale. What’s the difference between and 9.3 and 9.4? Seems subjective and way too specific. I respect the effort to make competition and give the whole market a variety of opinion, but based on what I’ve been seeing, it’s not for me. I also completely hate the look of the acrylics... too many curves and weirdness that takes always from the artwork and entire piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPX | 1,370 Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 10 hours ago, MinusWorlds said: There is a need for that. Wata is a grading company. They do it better than VGA IMO. That’s what we should be talking about. Not who is an investor, Director, or board member. Who cares?? The funny part is, the people that should be mostly upset about what Wata has created are those who have been sealed and CIB collecting for years. People who are being priced out of that side of the hobby. The side of the hobby they take part in Guess what? That’s me. I’m literally getting priced out of that side of the hobby because of the new collectors Wata brought in. I’m fine with that. It does suck but it was inevitable if the hobby was going to thrive. I want the hoody to thrive. Some people can’t see the forest through the trees and it’s a shame. I’d put money MOST of the people with gripes or who keep fanning the flames are not even graded game collectors. 1. If you don’t think there is any relevance to who is the director/board member/buyer/seller/journalist, then perhaps I can paint 2 scenarios: i). seller of an expensive item is the brother of the buyer of said item. The buyer then let it sell via an auction house owned by their uncle. The winning bidder happens to be the son of the uncle. The rapid rise in value of such an expensive item is leaked to a journalist who was first to do a news article. The journalist was the mother of the cousin. ii). seller A sold rare item to seller B, which then gets auctioned at an auction house owned by C. Winning bidder was D. Journalist E hears about this amazing chain of events and wrote an article. A,B,C,D,E are not related and have never communicated before prior to these sequence of events. Which scenario would gain more of your trust out of the 2? Or you don’t think it really matters? 2. Glad you’re saying you want the hobby to thrive. Though I believe there is a misconception that more money is being chucked into the hobby means the hobby is thriving. If the hobby is in the direction that it brings in 100 potential new collectors but ends up potentially losing 1000 collectors, then is the hobby actually “thriving”? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rman | 23 Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 Anyone else getting spammed with these Heritage catalogs in the mail? The way they wrote this bs is like they are talking to children! Hey newcomers! These are games!! They are stunning! It’s a Pedigree! Isn’t a pedigree supposed to be all one owner items? All purchased at the time the items were available new? Not just some random collection picked up over the years a couple decades later.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rman | 23 Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 28 minutes ago, GPX said: 1. If you don’t think there is any relevance to who is the director/board member/buyer/seller/journalist, then perhaps I can paint 2 scenarios: i). seller of an expensive item is the brother of the buyer of said item. The buyer then let it sell via an auction house owned by their uncle. The winning bidder happens to be the son of the uncle. The rapid rise in value of such an expensive item is leaked to a journalist who was first to do a news article. The journalist was the mother of the cousin. ii). seller A sold rare item to seller B, which then gets auctioned at an auction house owned by C. Winning bidder was D. Journalist E hears about this amazing chain of events and wrote an article. A,B,C,D,E are not related and have never communicated before prior to these sequence of events. Which scenario would gain more of your trust out of the 2? Or you don’t think it really matters? 2. Glad you’re saying you want the hobby to thrive. Though I believe there is a misconception that more money is being chucked into the hobby means the hobby is thriving. If the hobby is in the direction that it brings in 100 potential new collectors but ends up potentially losing 1000 collectors, then is the hobby actually “thriving”? Hit the nail right on the head. A game owner lets a grading company use a game to hype their company and his game, which is then purchased by an investor of that grading company and the owner of an auction company, that starts to sell videogames graded exclusively by that grading company..... Not to mention they created a news story about it to hype the sale, wata games, and Heritage.... In response to your second part. Someone had said they don’t want to see Nintendo collecting turn into what happened to Atari collecting.. The atari market tanked a decade ago and there is still a thriving atari scene. Not only is it still thriving, but it’s more fun than ever now to collect for atari. It’s not expensive, and it is readily available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinusWorlds | 193 Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 56 minutes ago, portabello said: What’s the difference between and 9.3 and 9.4? Seems subjective and way too specific. A 9.3 doesn’t exist and a 9.4 does? Grading IS subjective, well until AI and robots get involved and then we can take out the human factor completely. Shouldn’t be long. 44 minutes ago, GPX said: 1. If you don’t think there is any relevance to who is the director/board member/buyer/seller/journalist, then perhaps I can paint 2 scenarios: i). seller of an expensive item is the brother of the buyer of said item. The buyer then let it sell via an auction house owned by their uncle. The winning bidder happens to be the son of the uncle. The rapid rise in value of such an expensive item is leaked to a journalist who was first to do a news article. The journalist was the mother of the cousin. ii). seller A sold rare item to seller B, which then gets auctioned at an auction house owned by C. Winning bidder was D. Journalist E hears about this amazing chain of events and wrote an article. A,B,C,D,E are not related and have never communicated before prior to these sequence of events. Which scenario would gain more of your trust out of the 2? Or you don’t think it really matters? 2. Glad you’re saying you want the hobby to thrive. Though I believe there is a misconception that more money is being chucked into the hobby means the hobby is thriving. If the hobby is in the direction that it brings in 100 potential new collectors but ends up potentially losing 1000 collectors, then is the hobby actually “thriving”? Any chance you can paint a much clearer scenario, because I’m looking at a Rembrandt and finger painting is much more my speed. And, It’s not irrelevant, but I’ve asked a sincere question about what the potential ramifications of such a structure could be and the only answer I got was Wata may have given out a pedigree people didn’t feel it deserved. Yeah, so? Who's dog was hit by a car because a pedigree was given? And, the Indiana Collection already makes the point moot. That is a ridiculous and absurd pedigree yet it happened, so how is the Carolina Collection any different when that certainly presents a much better case to have a pedigree? Pedigrees for the most part are dumb and pointless. That’s the only answer I’ve gotten so if you have a better gripe with the structure and the potential conflicts that could arise please let me know, but dumb it down a little. I don’t want to have to call in Will Hunting to help me understand the issue. At the end of the day you still need a buyer for the hyped item. And, again, how many people collect graded games? We are talking about a ridiculously small portion of the hobby. Yet everyone is screaming foul with zero stake in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinusWorlds | 193 Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 9 minutes ago, Rman said: Hit the nail right on the head. A game owner lets a grading company use a game to hype their company and his game, which is then purchased by an investor of that grading company and the owner of an auction company, that starts to sell videogames graded exclusively by that grading company..... Not to mention they created a news story about it to hype the sale, wata games, and Heritage.... Again, so what? Why is that a problem? Who forced a group of people to pay $100k for a sealed game? I mean if they were forced to do it against their will then yes maybe we should look into that. But, until I see a video with a guy getting slammed in the face repeatedly with a thick ass Wata case until they hand over their wallet I don’t see the point. If people drop $25k on a graded game because they want to, let them. Nobody is making them buy them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captmorgandrinker | 1,649 Administrator · Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 3 hours ago, m308gunner said: Yup. And on behalf of said group I'd just like to voice my genuine (and ultimately futile) objection to the price of said items. I'm not fine with it, but seeing as there's nothing I can do but flail online in impotent nerd-angst... Not supper mad either, 'cause capitalism+freedom=awesome, but would REALLY like to snag decent (not even mint!) CIBs that don't make me wince. Sell high now and buy low in a few years? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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