American Politics / Current Events Thread

[avatar! | 1,811]

From the NYT

Donald Trump has been attacking American democracy for much of his time as president.

He has told repeated lies about voter fraud, undermining people’s confidence in elections. He has defied parts of the Constitution. He has spent his final weeks in office pressuring other government officials to overturn the result of an election he lost. He has occasionally encouraged his supporters to commit violence.

Yesterday, hundreds of those supporters decided to take Trump literally.

They fought their way through armed police, smashed windows and stormed the U.S. Capitol to prevent Congress from certifying President-elect Joe Biden’s victory. They then spent several hours inside the building, vandalizing offices and the House floor. They injured at least 14 law enforcement officers. Vice President Mike Pence, members of Congress and others fled for their safety.

In the end, the rioters — and Trump — will fail in their effort to keep him in power. At about 3:45 a.m., Congress did confirm Biden’s victory. Thirteen days from now, he will take the oath of office and become president of the United States.

But a physical assault on the nation’s seat of government is no small thing. And it was not a onetime event. It was a logical extension of the message that Trump has long been telling his supporters — that American democracy is a fraud, that his opponents are traitors and that his allies need to fight back.

“We’re seeing more and more citizens expressing openness to violence,” Lee Drutman, a political scientist, told me almost three months ago, “as more and more partisan leaders engage in the kinds of dehumanizing rhetoric that paves the way for taking violent action.”

Trump, speaking to the protesters at a rally hours before they burst into the Capitol, referred to his political opponents as “bad people” and “the enemy of the people.” He described his allies as “warriors” and encouraged them to stop “fighting like a boxer with his hands tied behind his back.” He added, “We’re going to have to fight much harder.”

At the same rally, Rudy Giuliani said that Trump’s opponents should go to jail and added, “Let’s have trial by combat.” And Donald Trump Jr., addressing congressional Republicans who planned to split from his father, said: “We’re coming for you, and we’re going to have a good time doing it.”

After the violence, Trump himself wrote on social media, “These are the things and events that happen when a sacred landslide election victory is so unceremoniously and viciously stripped away from great patriots who have been badly & unfairly treated for so long.”

Trump’s efforts are failing in large part because a significant number of Republicans have refused to go along with him. But many other high-level Republicans have echoed and encouraged him. Josh Hawley, Ted Cruz and dozens of other members of Congress have fanned voters’ anger by promoting Trump’s lies about the election. (Here’s a list of Congress members who did so yesterday.) They have joined his attempts to undermine the American system of government.

“This is what you’ve gotten, guys,” Senator Mitt Romney, the Utah Republican, yelled as the rioters breached the Capitol yesterday. He was addressing his colleagues who have supported Trump’s efforts to overturn the results of the election.

Shortly afterward, uniformed police officers evacuated senators and reporters from the chamber to the basement, before rushing them through underground tunnels to a secure location in a Senate office building. There, Romney saw Jonathan Martin, a Times reporter, and called for Jonathan to come over and talk. In 15 years of covering him, Jonathan said he had never seen Romney so alarmed.

“This is what the president has caused today, this insurrection,” Romney, with fury in his voice, said.

[avatar! | 1,811]

 

Edited January 7, 2021 by avatar!

[fcgamer | 4,723]

Woke up this morning, saw the news. Definitely wasn't pleased. Y it at all, it's the type of thing that can't be justified.

With that said, I think that this should be a wake-up call for America as a whole. The election was quite close, no matter where you stood, and that doesn't even address the situation of pandemic politics and subsequently, possible irregularities.

I'm not going to waste my time discussing points that the (mostly left-leaning) VGS community will dismiss as lies, conspiracy theories, etc. We've all seen some of them. Whether there is truth to any of them or not, I don't want us to debate it, everyone can do his or her own fact checking and draw his or her own conclusions; however, as soon as weird stuff starts happening, it's only natural that a portion of people are going to suspect fraud or a rigged election. When half the country feels this way, it should come as no surprise that we've now progressed to storming the Capitol. It doesn't make the action right , or justifiable, yet similarly these folks believe they were legitimately screwed, and perhaps they were. If the cards were rigged in favour of Biden, then democracy was dead before this storming of the Capitol even kicked off, imo.

I'm not going to argue about who is right or wrong, whether the claims are baseless or not; however, it's imo a very bad situation our country is now in, so polarised thanks to our current president, biased media, racial divide, etc etc. I think that what happened today should serve as a wake-up call for all Americans that we should look within ourselves, and treat each other as brothers, no matter what our skin colour, class, or political beliefs. Enough with the finger pointing, we need to agree to disagree on somethings and just leave it at that, respecting each other.

What's really the other option? Another Civil War? 

 

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

39 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

Americans that we should look within ourselves, and treat each other as brothers, no matter what our skin colour, class, or political beliefs. Enough with the finger pointing, we need to agree to disagree on somethings and just leave it at that, respecting each other.

I've seen a lot of people saying this. It's a great idea in theory. I'd love it if this could happen. But we all know it can't. I guess it's fun to think about but really, what is the point of repeating it? we are ignoring reality. The reality is the nation will only get more and more divided. I doubt anything Joe Biden can do will bring us closer together.

[cartman | 195]

It's a shame people have lost their lives over this shit they never had a chance of getting any of their objectives through. I guess people in large crowds overestimate their capabilities thinking they're a force to be reckoned with when in reality it amounts to nothing. When these plans were brewing in different chatrooms and whatnot i would've opted the fuck OUT.

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

Nothing Will Stop Us," Tweeted Woman Before She Was Shot Dead At Capitol

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

1 hour ago, fcgamer said:

The election was quite close, no matter where you stood,

 

Electoral Votes -- Biden 306 / Trump 232

Popular Vote - Biden 81.2 million / Trump 74.2 million

Trump lost by a significantly wider margin than he won in 2016.  It was not "quite close", regardless of "where you stood".

Edited January 7, 2021 by arch_8ngel

[Silent Hill | 276]

20 hours ago, Tulpa said:

20 hours ago, Richardhead said:

I like how the Democrats are so quick to denounce the violence when it shows up at their doorstep. But stay quiet almost all summer while shits being  burned and destroyed.

The Democrats didn't tell the followers to storm the cities. Trump just did today.

Not defending Trump, or anyone who stormed the Capitol, but there were some Democratic leaders encouraging continued unrest over the Summer. Also, some declined assistance from the National Guard, which aided the continued riots. A couple quotes below and whether it was their intention or not, I'm sure some took it as a call to action (similarly to some far-right folks hanging on Trump's every word, context be damned)

 

 

Maxine Waters:

"“Let’s make sure we show up wherever we have to show up. And if you see anybody from that Cabinet in a restaurant, in a department store, at a gasoline station, you get out and you create a crowd. And you push back on them. And you tell them they’re not welcome anymore, anywhere"

 

Kamala Harris:

 

“They’re not going to stop. And everyone beware, because they’re not going to stop. They’re not going to stop before Election Day in November, and they’re not going to stop after Election Day. And that should be — everyone should take note of that, on both levels, that they’re not going to let up, and they should not, and we should not"

 

 

[Silent Hill | 276]

19 hours ago, Kguillemette said:

That's a lot of dusty white people. Did they get lost from their NASCAR tailgate party? The Richmond Raceway is an hour and a half south of DC. Can someone direct them to I95 southbound?

I'll take Racist Statements for $1000, Alex

Flip that statement to another race and you'd be crucified here. 

(RIP Alex Trebek)

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

3 minutes ago, Silent Hill said:

I'll take Racist Statements for $1000, Alex

Flip that statement to another race and you'd be crucified here. 

(RIP Alex Trebek)

White people aren't the minority/marginalized in the US, so by definition that's not a racist comment. Prejudiced maybe. 

[Tulpa | 3,494]

16 minutes ago, arch_8ngel said:

Electoral Votes -- Biden 306 / Trump 232

Popular Vote - Biden 81.2 million / Trump 74.2 million

Trump lost by a significantly wider margin than we won in 2016.  It was not "quite close", regardless of "where you stood".

Seriously.

 

And the courts have looked into the election, the DOJ has looked into it, there have been recounts, audits. The "process" played out, and it all points to Biden winning legitimately.

This storming of the capitol was people who were not willing to accept anything but a Trump victory. Since that wasn't possible, they decided to hold an insurrection.

They all need to be prosecuted.

 

[Tulpa | 3,494]

19 minutes ago, Silent Hill said:

Not defending Trump, or anyone who stormed the Capitol, but there were some Democratic leaders encouraging continued unrest over the Summer. Also, some declined assistance from the National Guard, which aided the continued riots. A couple quotes below and whether it was their intention or not, I'm sure some took it as a call to action (similarly to some far-right folks hanging on Trump's every word, context be damned)

 

It's a lot harder to call those an immediate call to action vs. a Trump rally being held right near the capitol and Trump telling them to march on said capitol, which they immediately did.

[spacepup | 2,404]

I don't believe the fraud theories will be dismissed here because "VGS is left."  I think the fraud theories are dismissed by myself and others because they have been LARGELY and overwhelmingly debunked in multiple manners, many of which Tulpa mentioned above.  

When even Republican-appointed / Trump-appointed judges have officially and publicly dismissed allegations as completely baseless and without merit, I believe that gives me enough credibility to say the allegations are, well, baseless and without merit.  I don't think it's a partisan opinion of mine, or a "left" opinion of mine, that the claims of widespread fraud and irregularities are baseless.  

Many people, even some here, defended and supported his legal right to question and challenge results of the election - and he did just that.  With dozens of lawsuits.  And those challenges failed overwhelmingly.  

The claims of widespread fraud, or "the deep state rigging the election," or whatever other conspiracy theories are out there, are false.  Misleading.  Untrue.  Period. 

[MagusSmurf | 577]

21 minutes ago, arch_8ngel said:

Electoral Votes -- Biden 306 / Trump 232

Popular Vote - Biden 81.2 million / Trump 74.2 million

Trump lost by a significantly wider margin than he won in 2016.  It was not "quite close", regardless of "where you stood".

Flip the results in Georgia (.2% margin), Arizona (.3% margin), and Wisconsin (.7% margin) and the electoral college would have tied. I'd call that close.

[cartman | 195]

25 minutes ago, CodysGameRoom said:

White people aren't the minority/marginalized in the US, so by definition that's not a racist comment. Prejudiced maybe. 

No that is a racist statement and the latter is a re-defining of the word. You don't have to be the minority you only have to be mistreated because of your race.

[spacepup | 2,404]

I do seriously also hope that we can take something good from this, as a sort of wake up call or breather to analyze how we are where we are and how we got to this point.  It's unsustainable for the division and animosity to continue to get worse, and I just hope that as the dust settles, that we see a lessening of the vitriol and inciting language and actions, from all angles.

[cartman | 195]

9 minutes ago, spacepup said:

I do seriously also hope that we can take something good from this, as a sort of wake up call or breather to analyze how we are where we are and how we got to this point.  It's unsustainable for the division and animosity to continue to get worse, and I just hope that as the dust settles, that we see a lessening of the vitriol and inciting language and actions, from all angles.

Maybe it's all cyclical and now was due for some ruckus times. People thinking they're at the brink of something extraordinary when really it's all been done before. I mean you did have a fucking civil war (and other wars before that), surely this is way lesser?

[Tulpa | 3,494]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/derrick-evans-west-virginia-us-capitol-video/?fbclid=IwAR2djBxVoChLLyEP7ZyO1mKdXxSLLBmQ8aA-1tZFgWDlCAIE-1bDyiGh5ME

 

West Virginia lawmaker records himself storming the U.S. Capitol: "We're in!"

A West Virginia state lawmaker recorded video of himself and fellow supporters of President Donald Trump storming the U.S. Capitol on Wednesday, triggering calls for his resignation. In the video by Republican Delegate Derrick Evans, later deleted from his social media page, he is shown wearing a helmet and clamoring at the door to breach the building after Congress met for an expected vote to affirm Democrat Joe Biden's election victory.

Edited January 7, 2021 by Tulpa

[JamesRobot | 5,800]

24 minutes ago, cartman said:

No that is a racist statement and the latter is a re-defining of the word. You don't have to be the minority you only have to be mistreated because of your race.

 

Maybe.  But still much less racist than:

On 11/6/2020 at 1:33 PM, cartman said:

Matt was getting Jewed by his bank today

 

[Reed Rothchild | 9,526]

23 minutes ago, spacepup said:

I do seriously also hope that we can take something good from this, as a sort of wake up call or breather to analyze how we are where we are and how we got to this point.  It's unsustainable for the division and animosity to continue to get worse, and I just hope that as the dust settles, that we see a lessening of the vitriol and inciting language and actions, from all angles.

That is very optimistic of you.  I think the damage is irrevocable. People have to "win" no matter the amount of cognitive dissonance.  The rationalizing has already begun, make no mistake.

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

34 minutes ago, cartman said:

No that is a racist statement and the latter is a re-defining of the word. You don't have to be the minority you only have to be mistreated because of your race.

You didn't have to make this statement for us to know that you don't understand the definition of racism. Previous posts have already shown that. I won't debate further because it's been done to death on this board numerous times.  

[cartman | 195]

4 minutes ago, JamesRobot said:

 

Maybe.  But still much less racist than:

 

 

But you're not refuting my point. The fact that a Jew joke would be deemed malicious doesn't refute that you could write a way about whites that you couldn't about blacks wich is what is what his original argument was.

 

[Silent Hill | 276]

1 hour ago, Tulpa said:

It's a lot harder to call those an immediate call to action vs. a Trump rally being held right near the capitol and Trump telling them to march on said capitol, which they immediately did.

March or breach?

[Tulpa | 3,494]

2 minutes ago, Silent Hill said:

March or breach?

Does it matter? He whipped them into a frenzy by saying the election was being stolen that very minute and then set them loose. You can use all the weasel words you want, but at some point it becomes inevitable.

 

[cartman | 195]

11 minutes ago, CodysGameRoom said:

You didn't have to make this statement for us to know that you don't understand the definition of racism. Previous posts have already shown that. I won't debate further because it's been done to death on this board numerous times.  

Racism is the belief that groups of humans possess different behavioral traits corresponding to physical appearance and can be divided based on the superiority of one race over another.^[1][2][3][4] It may also mean prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against other people because they are of a different race or ethnicity

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism

Key word being different. Not necessarily one that is or isn't a minority, just different. You're in the wrong wether you accept it or not.