Star Keeper - General Collector’s Discussion

[Tanooki | 4,934]

You're a fool, but I figured that out yesterday when you went textually hypocritical and ballistic.  I'm not butthurt in the slightest, but right now I have a feeling you need to be chugging some prep H yourself about all this.  It is 100% gate keeping, when a product that can be made available isn't, and you have white knights like yourself cool with a very limited pool of people jacking up the price to obscene levels just because, while getting shitty when someone else finds a way to get it out there is right on the mark about gate keeping.  Homebrewers do not get nor deserve special dispensation from actual company released titles.  Same rules apply, make the product open for consumption by some kind of means, or there will be consequences in the end, that's just how things are and have been whether those ends are legal or not.  You're a fool, and no amount of arguing will ever change that, I'm guessing there's some deeper seeded trauma there, but I'm not going to keep picking at you because as you said, no one is going to change anyones mind here.

When the author decides to make it for sale again I'll happily pay the price.  If it doesn't happen, what happens happens, and it's begging for whatever the result is whether you like it or not.   You can't compare cars to digital files, you sound like those pathetic gov't scare campaigns of the 90s... you wouldn't download a car so you better not download that floppy.  Thanks for the memories and the laugh on that one I do appreciate it (not sarcasm.)

I think fcgamer got tired of arguing with a brick wall, also it's a 12hrs difference there, and I don't blame him.  Have fun.  I'll be sure to say hi when this ends up on aliexpress for around $5-10 in a cart if I don't forget.  Rather give the maker that money but...that's there choice, and theirs (not yours) alone to make.

[JamesRobot | 5,800]

 

Joking aside, VGS shouldn't be and is not the place to advocate videogame piracy.  Do what you can to support brewers here.  If you need to jolly your Roger, go to reddit or wherever. 

Edited April 28, 2022 by JamesRobot

[Deadeye | 1,596]

10 hours ago, JamesRobot said:

Joking aside, VGS shouldn't be and is not the place to advocate videogane piracy.  Do what you can to support brewers here. 

^^ this is our stance on the matter.  VGS is not the place for that, support the developers and their projects.  

Regarding out of print homebrews, advocating for digital releases by the developers is all good, and has been turning around over the years.  As @Orab Gamesstated, several games that had been physical only, have been re-issued for sale on itch by the developers.  Furthermore, new releases are more commonly for sale digitally.

[nesmaster14 | 436]

Well, since this is a Star Keeper thread I'll share my thoughts as well haha, especially since most of the info has vanished from the original NA threads.  I've supported homebrew since Battle Kid was announced in 2008, and obviously this game as well.

It's a shame the original sale thread is missing most the posts. The dev's operation from initial interest check to post-sales was some of the finest I've seen, especially considering the language barrier. It wasn't overly limited either (many other homebrews had far smaller runs), and the price was very affordable.   Star Keeper was one of the cheaper priced homebrews I've ever seen (especially for the quality), and it was produced in sizable quantity and even multiple batches.  It wasn't some uber elite thing only 5 or even 50 people got. 

Also, where is the story of him not liking Famicom coming from?  I remember him saying he loved Famicom as a child and had fond memories with it.  I think the disconnect may have come from him mentioning western folks on forums sometimes believed Chinese made FC stuff was often thought to be dubious/clones.  That's probably why he wanted to release as NES, to help differentiate himself and appear more legit to western buyers. 

The Famicom homebrew scene, while active at that time, wasn't as rampant as NES was, so perhaps that was also a reason.  I don't think he had any negativity towards Famicom, quite the opposite.  Huang Di and some of the Waixing games are fun original games, but 87arts obviously was trying to do his own thing for a variety of reasons. Regardless man, it's the developer's choice to release on NES carts (the biggest homebrew market at that time), and if you don't like it then don't support it.  No need to cry about it.  If Star Keeper was released on FC, I still would have bought it, because I liked the dev's game and what he was doing and wanted to support.  

Lastly, I think it hasn't been dumped by entitled pirates because it's too difficult with its custom PCB.  To my eye, it has a few more custom chips and would be more than just a CHR/PRG dump to run properly.  Another kudos to the dev I'd say.  I'm not here to argue the ethics of game ROMs, but I do advocate the thought of supporting a niche market in the hobby.  Not every developer is going to work for months/years and release their stuff for free or an open-source license.  If you don't like that, don't feel entitled about it.  I'm not made of money either and I've had to pass on many homebrews and pick/choose my favorites to support. I'm not sore about it though nor feel entitled to pirate them.

And if the secondary market value has you annoyed, well, you weren't there supporting the developer originally when the game was priced fairly.   The game will probably end up on pirate express eventually, but at least I'll know there is a sizable group of people who actually supported/still support developers, the dev took measures to prevent piracy, and fans helped it come to fruition.  Lastly lastly (lol),  most homebrewers do this as a side-gig passion project.  They're not big manufacturing plants who can just instantly spin up another production 5 years after their initial product release; it's a big time investment regardless and they have lives, time and other interests to carry on.

Whew...

 

 

[spacepup | 2,404]

20 minutes ago, Deadeye said:

^^ this is our stance on the matter.  VGS is not the place for that, support the developers and their projects.  

Regarding our of print homebrews, advocating for digital releases by the developers is all good, and has been turning around over the years.  As @Orab Gamesstated, several games that had been physical only, have been re-issued for sale on itch by the developers.  Furthermore, new releases are more commonly for sale digitally.

Yes - this 100%.  @Orab Games and anyone else reading - please don't mistake one person's viewpoint (or a few) for any sort of representation that VGS supports piracy of homebrew.  I'm just catching up on this thread and can 100% confirm that what both James and Deadeye are saying, is our official stance.  Different users here will have different opinions on the matter, and I can't control those opinions, but we'll definitely monitor the site as we can, and put a stop to any direct piracy of homebrews, or encouragement of such, as we can.

We should all be self-aware of the 'entitlement' that does sometime get thrown around.  Why should I be 'entitled' to play Star Keeper for free, just because I want to play it?  There were times in the past when I would have loved a brand new, cutting edge version of photoshop to play with, but it was prohibitively expensive for me.  In no way was I entitled to get it just because that's what I wanted.  There are a lot of things in life we 'want' but can't get for some reason or another - whether it is due to cost, availability, or other factors.  

I support homebrew developers, and will always advocate for expanded releases, digital releases, etc.  But ultimately, it is up to the creators to decide how, when, and where they distribute their content.

It's interesting that preservation was brought up, because I consider myself a preservationist and am working very hard to preserve video game content - but there are many different types of 'preservationists' and some, yes, are all about sharing out roms.  My main goal is to see content protected and preserved for future generations, not necessarily for anyone who wants to play something now to be able to pirate / play it.  To that end, I'll continue to reach out to developers of all sorts, to see if they want to make any agreements to safely store their data, with an agreed upon timeframe for future availability (far in the future).  And if someone doesn't want to do that at all - that is their choice.

[Alder | 243]

My takeaway from this is that limited releases are a bummer for pretty much everyone involved . This game looks great and I'd love to have supported the developer, but my budget hasn't always lined up with homebrew releases over the years - and sometimes I'm just inactive for months because life happens. I'm personally uninterested in "owning" a ROM, and while the piracy discussion has nuance on both sides (and may be inevitable), I don't want to see VGS associated with it. I greatly appreciate the work that goes into publishing physical releases, but I don't like the FOMO that comes along with limited releases, homebrew or not, and would very much prefer to support a print-on-demand model.

[a3quit4s | 4,099]

Whoever created it, it’s their property. If they want to ROM it up and distribute, cool. If not, cool. 
 

Peoples entitlement issues are out of control these days. 

Edited April 28, 2022 by a3quit4s

[Orab Games | 97]

3 minutes ago, Alder said:

My takeaway from this is that limited releases are a bummer for pretty much everyone involved . This game looks great and I'd love to have supported the developer, but my budget hasn't always lined up with homebrew releases over the years - and sometimes I'm just inactive for months because life happens. I'm personally uninterested in "owning" a ROM, and while the piracy discussion has nuance on both sides (and may be inevitable), I don't want to see VGS associated with it. I greatly appreciate the work that goes into publishing physical releases, but I don't like the FOMO that comes along with limited releases, homebrew or not, and would very much prefer to support a print-on-demand model.

I really wish it was possible to print-on-demand but it is just not a feasible model for many factors. I tried to do this with Tailgate Party after the initial run and it was such a hassle in my life at the time.

[JamesRobot | 5,800]

Here's the original NA thread.  Unfortunately, only the first few and last few pages are available.  https://archive.nes.science/nintendoage-forums/nintendoage.com/forum/messageview79ae.html?StartRow=1&catid=22&threadid=125036

FWIW, 87 Arts didn't release Star Keeper in China because ha had no market (for a mere 100 copies).  His words (quoted by @Tulpa), "I did not find enough buyers and supporters in china."  I vaguely recall the interaction that lead to the statement; Kosmic Stardust was hounding him for a FC copy wondering why it wasn't produced in that format. 

[fcgamer | 4,723]

3 hours ago, spacepup said:

Different users here will have different opinions on the matter, and I can't control those opinions, but we'll definitely monitor the site as we can, and put a stop to any direct piracy of homebrews, or encouragement of such, as we can.

I shall also be monitoring the site very closely and be pointing out and reporting piracy and sales of pirated modern-made "repros" of Famicom exclusives, unlicensed games, etc.

Either we respect all IP holders, or we let it go, but enough is enough, the idea that some is more gray area or acceptable than others.

Actually, let's take it a step further. I think by doing such, we should denounce the dumping of ALL games, including prototypes, unreleased games, maybe even move into stuff like high-res scans of manuals and boxes, yeah that surely isn't legal either

Not trying to single anyone out or to be an ass, but there are so many misconceptions, so much fear steeped in misinformation, etc here that it's not even funny.

[fcgamer | 4,723]

And for funsies, did I ever show you guys these bad boys?

[Tabonga | 2,318]

7 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

And for funsies, did I ever show you guys these bad boys?

Made by:

 

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

25 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

I shall also be monitoring the site very closely and be pointing out and reporting piracy and sales of pirated modern-made "repros" of Famicom exclusives, unlicensed games, etc.

Either we respect all IP holders, or we let it go, but enough is enough, the idea that some is more gray area or acceptable than others.

Actually, let's take it a step further. I think by doing such, we should denounce the dumping of ALL games, including prototypes, unreleased games, maybe even move into stuff like high-res scans of manuals and boxes, yeah that surely isn't legal either

Not trying to single anyone out or to be an ass, but there are so many misconceptions, so much fear steeped in misinformation, etc here that it's not even funny.

You do realize this is a private site, and the owners/mod team can do what they want right? What are you gonna do if repros are sold? Nothing lol. Well I guess you can complain, but that happens anyways. 
 

They can 100% ban rom upload, and allow repros buy/sale. 

[fcgamer | 4,723]

6 hours ago, Orab Games said:

This developer chose not to release the rom, but from what I see, entitlement > dev's choice.

I always felt this way back on NA when I saw timewalk games and everyone else make "repros" of famicom exclusives, some possibly even profiting off fan translations as well.

Talk about entitlement on so many levels, where were the support to stop that?

[fcgamer | 4,723]

5 minutes ago, MrWunderful said:

You do realize this is a private site, and the owners/mod team can do what they want right? What are you gonna do if repros are sold? Nothing lol. Well I guess you can complain, but that happens anyways. 
 

They can 100% ban rom upload, and allow repros buy/sale. 

Well as our friend @Orab GamesGames said himself, such unwelcoming attitudes ultimately lead to people leaving the site and not contributing anymore.

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

3 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

Well as our friend @Orab GamesGames said himself, such unwelcoming attitudes ultimately lead to people leaving the site and not contributing anymore.

Bye Felicia!

[fcgamer | 4,723]

Friday morning fun.

Oh I don't need to do 8Bit Music Power though, westerners dumped it as soon as it was released as they felt entitled to have it on a different PCB...pricks.

Back to work though

[fcgamer | 4,723]

All we need is dumps, doo doo doo doo doo, all we need is dumps, dumps, dumps is all we need.

[Tabonga | 2,318]

16 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

All we need is dumps, doo doo doo doo doo, all we need is dumps, dumps, dumps is all we need.

 

[Tanooki | 4,934]

9 hours ago, Alder said:

My takeaway from this is that limited releases are a bummer for pretty much everyone involved . This game looks great and I'd love to have supported the developer, but my budget hasn't always lined up with homebrew releases over the years - and sometimes I'm just inactive for months because life happens. I'm personally uninterested in "owning" a ROM, and while the piracy discussion has nuance on both sides (and may be inevitable), I don't want to see VGS associated with it. I greatly appreciate the work that goes into publishing physical releases, but I don't like the FOMO that comes along with limited releases, homebrew or not, and would very much prefer to support a print-on-demand model.

That’s my problem. I wasn’t in NA at the time had no idea it existed. I’d have bought it. I want to and still do. But I won’t be punished paying some scum hundreds of dollars for it. That’s not entitlement it’s standing up for oneself. If it were legitimately reprinted by the maker sign me up. I’ve got a few others I’ve paid the makers for since getting since  here like khans lsl1 port, jim power, and Kira Kira Star night dx. They’re great and the right people got paid. The correct people got their money.  I don’t want to own a rom either. It’s digital fluff if I’m dropping coin I want tangibility of the item.  I don’t like the fomo either. Already regret my last three still sealed LRG buys I’d gladly trade or sell. Learned that lesson.  Ugh. 
 

@fcgamer  ooh.  Love to get my hands on that shooter in that one shot. Didn’t see it for sale anywhere including aliexpress.  What’s the one cart with the pilot on it?

[JamesRobot | 5,800]

42 minutes ago, Tanooki said:

That’s my problem. I wasn’t in NA at the time had no idea it existed. I’d have bought it.

 

Maybe you just don't remember.  It was 4/20...

Apr 20, 2014 at 6:23:29 PM

 

Tanooki (185) 

 

(The Wind Waker) < Bonk >

Posts: 17067 - Joined: 08/27/2010

 

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 Profile

I think your English is fine enough as you make sense. I know Chinese games get a bad wrap, a good bit for the poor hacks are deserved, but even during the famicom time a good many famicom pirates were made to copy real games in a new cartridge to save money and were well built and the multi-game cartridges were fun too.

Your game looks very good. It seems to control well. The graphics and the sound are good too. It reminds me a little of Kid Icarus in the very last stage when Pit is flying mixed with Choplifter since you return the stars to your base (house.)

People do put homebrew on ebay to sell, but it is usually people selling a copy they bought. I think the idea is that home brew people tend to keep it within a community, but you really do not need to do this if you wish to let a lot of people play your game and not a limited number. You can definitely sell it on ebay, there should not be a problem since you did not steal other licensed game graphics or audio. I think the Brewery would be great to show off the game and get people interested with updates, but the Seller's Forum would only be good to SELL the game because people go there to buy things. CIB means Complete in Box or Cartridge/Instructions/Box depending on who you ask. With your game I would suggest a game only sale, and a game/instructions/box setup for more dedicated collectors.

I've got to say you have one of the best home brew games I've seen so far.  The level of quality that went into the control, challenge, graphics, and audio seem to be very well thought out.  It doesn't appear to cut corners or come off as a mediocre unlicensed game of the 90s that would get overlooked and few homebrew have done this.

 

 

 

Edited: 04/20/2014 at 06:24 PM by Tanooki

[JamesRobot | 5,800]

1 hour ago, Tanooki said:

@fcgamer  ooh.  Love to get my hands on that shooter in that one shot. Didn’t see it for sale anywhere including aliexpress.  What’s the one cart with the pilot on it?

 

I have a Nintendo copy on my Homebrew Swap Meet table if you have anything interesting for trade.  They were available here in the VGS store for a minute. 

 

[Tanooki | 4,934]

9 hours ago, JamesRobot said:

 

I have a Nintendo copy on my Homebrew Swap Meet table if you have anything interesting for trade.  They were available here in the VGS store for a minute. 

 

I don't remember that one, funny, given the 4/20 side of it, and I don't even need to get baked to forget things.

I do remember because it was a decade long run of misery financially, but at that point my wife was making a few hundred a month and us racking debt.  Last August with various avenues of help, got her working at my employer and given all the benefits come from my check she's making net nearly what I do so we're slowly digging out.   I'd only buy at that rate what I could afford to trade/sell to get which was no secret with the b/s/t thing I had going and the rampant ebay dumping I ceased late last year.  That's why as long as i've been here/na I was choosy and pretty cheap about buying things online, thin margin, so I usually couldn't get in on those homebrews as they often were a bit much at that point due to the limited nature of them $50 wasn't easy and $100+ for the bundle things unobtainium.

I really should have seen that, but it was before I had the hardware, darius and mad stalker would have been nice.  I think that thread is dangerous seeing things I know out of reach like space invaders virtual boy.

 

Looks like you have Trophy though, read nothing but nice things about that one same with Haradius Zero.  I couldn't even find HZ up on aliexpress when I was poking around the last two nights to see what I could find with their sketchy search tool.

[Tanooki | 4,934]

Seriously, how did you find that.  I can't even pull that up from the burning ashes of gocollect or using a google search for old info as that's an 8 year old post and roughly about time I parted with that place too officially.

[JamesRobot | 5,800]

5 minutes ago, Tanooki said:

Seriously, how did you find that.  I can't even pull that up from the burning ashes of gocollect or using a google search for old info as that's an 8 year old post and roughly about time I parted with that place too officially.

https://archive.nes.science/nintendoage-forums/nintendoage.com/forum/index.html

Not in anyway complete, but still a nice resource.