Star Keeper - General Collector’s Discussion

[RetroX85 | 64]

Kind of glad this Homebrew is getting some attention lately. Mainly thanks to Eugene for figuring out how to implement the code. I tried the code and had a good time with the game again without the usual frustration lol.  It will be a blessing for those who want a better chance at finishing the game since it is very challenging.  Also, good luck to whoever bids on the one currently listed on eBay.  This game is a treasure and I hope it keeps its place in the homebrew community as a player favorite. 

[fcgamer | 4,724]

I personally think the reason this hasn't been dumped yet I'd because of investment purposes, okay there I said it

[RegularGuyGamer | 2,013]

9 hours ago, ecmyers said:

I didn't say I was going to dump it or release the ROM, just that someone has been bugging me to do so over on my YouTube post. I'm aware that 87Arts does not want it to be released publicly, so of course I wouldn't share the ROM even if I could. I assumed it was OK to share pics of the PCB though, since I haven't seen them documented anywhere else.

Every time I list obscure homebrews on eBay, I get messages asking me to dump them. I even had people tell me they'll send me their dumper and pay me $20 for the ROMs. There's a reddit thread somewhere that has basically every homebrew ROM to download so resistance is ultimately futile. 

[a3quit4s | 4,101]

Shit I was at $805, someone got me in the last 10 seconds!

Edited April 27, 2022 by a3quit4s

[RetroX85 | 64]

2 minutes ago, a3quit4s said:

Shit I was at $805, someone got me in the last 10 seconds!

Damn That sucks! I hate it when that happens. I feel your pain. 

[a3quit4s | 4,101]

Just now, RetroX85 said:

Damn That sucks! I hate it when that happens. I feel your pain. 

I swear the timer had 5 seconds when I was putting in $825 but it didn’t let me get in a last bid

[Scrobins | 1,726]

14 minutes ago, a3quit4s said:

I swear the timer had 5 seconds when I was putting in $825 but it didn’t let me get in a last bid

For me I've noticed the mobile app is more accurate than off my laptop.

[a3quit4s | 4,101]

29 minutes ago, Scrobins said:

For me I've noticed the mobile app is more accurate than off my laptop.

Meh I would have been happy to get it but not upset that I didn’t spend $825 today lol

[Tanooki | 4,934]

There's a reddit with the various homebrews on it?  I know of the roms one that kind of slides around, don't recall seeing it on that one, but largely I find sticking to the web archive is better.

[Dr. Morbis | 2,088]

16 hours ago, Orab Games said:

Since when has VGS turned into an illegal homebrew warez forum? I'm pretty sure it goes against the developer's wishes to have this dumped and released to the public. He even said as much when he discussed not wanting his hard work lumped in with cheap Chinese clones. If someone uses their personal copy to create a backup and document the mapper, I see no ethical issues with that. However, I would be terribly disappointed in the homebrew collecting community if this rom was made public just because a few people feel entitled to own a rom.

I agree with you 100% in principle, but can you honestly tell me you haven't booted up an NES ROM that you downloaded for free on your PC even one single time in the last twenty years?  Because if you have - even once - then you're a pretty big hypocrite.  What percentage of NES ROMs available for free on the internet right now have the blessings of the rights holders?  If it's not zero percent then it's gotta be damn close to it.  I'd like to know why it's okay to pirate Super Mario 3, or whatever games you've emulated on your pc, but it's not okay to pirate Star Keeper?

Once again, I agree with you in principle 100% that piracy of games against the ip owner's wishes is completely wrong, but this wholier than thou attitude you've got going on really is a joke if you seriously think that homebrewer's rights are somehow more important than the rights of larger companies.

PS - this is the internet era - Star Keeper will be dumped at some point and made available to everyone for free - it's not a question of if but when.  I remember going through all this shit when the NWC 1990 owners swore up and down that their game would never be dumped; well, a couple of years passed and suddenly a ROM magically showed up on the internet.  Weird.......

Edited April 28, 2022 by Dr. Morbis

[Orab Games | 97]

In my opinion, there is a big difference. What I may have done or haven't done doesn't justify promoting stealing other people IPs.

- The Konamis and SNKs of the world are no longer making games for you guys to play on the NES, so put that in whatever gray area category that clears your conscience. Current devs are making new games for you on the NES and want to make more.

- The money you spend on old NES games no longer supports the original developer. The money you spend on homebrews does support current developers.

- Supporting current devs only increases the quality of the games being made as you encourage them to give up their free time to make better games. Nearly every dev has an normal 8-5 like you plus many of them have families to support. You can buy many of the roms now for just a few bucks straight from the dev and continue to support them.

- The profit made on homebrews are already slim and piracy hurts current devs.

- You personally know many of the devs and talk directly with them, so support them.

- This is a labor of love done in the dev's free time that takes hundreds of hours. Then you see your work stolen, that can be demoralizing.

- Nintendo has a team of lawyers who can protect their IP from being stolen. Most homebrewers can't afford the money or time to work with a lawyer to protect their IP. So, we count on community trust and support.

- Just because the game isn't being sold now doesn't mean it may not be released. We have seen this on numerous occasions. I know a few people have tried to reach out to zdxplay to help rerelease Star Keeper. Who knows, it may return!

- Eventually, stolen roms of quality homebrews end up becoming reproductions sold on the internet. I've seen numerous homebrew repros being sold on AliExpress, eBay, and Etsy.

- Homebrew fans are already a pretty niche group. Trying to expand on that is tough enough, let alone if everyone can just find these games for free.

If you want to spend time hunting down homebrew roms across the Internet, then that is your business, I really don't care what you do. I don't want anyone's throat for pirating roms and I really care what your feelings about piracy and pircacy laws are.  All I can do is advocate for and support the homebrewers who wish for their IPs to remain protected. I am fully aware that many of these games are already dumped and out there and eventually, all will be. But VGS is supposed to be a forum that supports and welcomes homebrewers, not promote piracy of their work and then tell them how to they should feel about their IP being stolen just because you feel entitled to their work.

[OptOut | 8,884]

20 minutes ago, Orab Games said:

- Homebrew fans are already a pretty niche group. Trying to expand on that is tough enough, let alone if everyone can just find these games for free.

I have no skin in this discussion whatsoever, but I found this particular statement pretty contradictory... How is limiting the distribution of Homebrew games to incredibly scarce and highly expensive releases supposed to help expand interest in Homebrew games?

I personally don't have much experience with any homebrew games, specifically BECAUSE I have very few avenues to obtain them, they are not on my radar whatsoever. I would have thought having at least the ROMs of homebrew games floating around freely out there would INCREASE the interest in them, not decrease it?

 

Other than that, I have really no input on this discussion, I just thought that was an odd argument.

[fcgamer | 4,724]

3 hours ago, Orab Games said:

In my opinion, there is a big difference. What I may have done or haven't done doesn't justify promoting stealing other people IPs.

- The Konamis and SNKs of the world are no longer making games for you guys to play on the NES, so put that in whatever gray area category that clears your conscience. Current devs are making new games for you on the NES and want to make more.

- The money you spend on old NES games no longer supports the original developer. The money you spend on homebrews does support current developers.

- Supporting current devs only increases the quality of the games being made as you encourage them to give up their free time to make better games. Nearly every dev has an normal 8-5 like you plus many of them have families to support. You can buy many of the roms now for just a few bucks straight from the dev and continue to support them.

- The profit made on homebrews are already slim and piracy hurts current devs.

- You personally know many of the devs and talk directly with them, so support them.

- This is a labor of love done in the dev's free time that takes hundreds of hours. Then you see your work stolen, that can be demoralizing.

- Nintendo has a team of lawyers who can protect their IP from being stolen. Most homebrewers can't afford the money or time to work with a lawyer to protect their IP. So, we count on community trust and support.

- Just because the game isn't being sold now doesn't mean it may not be released. We have seen this on numerous occasions. I know a few people have tried to reach out to zdxplay to help rerelease Star Keeper. Who knows, it may return!

- Eventually, stolen roms of quality homebrews end up becoming reproductions sold on the internet. I've seen numerous homebrew repros being sold on AliExpress, eBay, and Etsy.

- Homebrew fans are already a pretty niche group. Trying to expand on that is tough enough, let alone if everyone can just find these games for free.

If you want to spend time hunting down homebrew roms across the Internet, then that is your business, I really don't care what you do. I don't want anyone's throat for pirating roms and I really care what your feelings about piracy and pircacy laws are.  All I can do is advocate for and support the homebrewers who wish for their IPs to remain protected. I am fully aware that many of these games are already dumped and out there and eventually, all will be. But VGS is supposed to be a forum that supports and welcomes homebrewers, not promote piracy of their work and then tell them how to they should feel about their IP being stolen just because you feel entitled to their work.

Nice Code is making NES games for plug n play machines and other items, yet people keep buying, reverse engineering, and dumping the ROMs. The same thing happened when Nintendo released their DK ROM with one of their wii (?) machines a few years back. Aaand, this conversation has been going on since the Nintendo Age days, and back then companies like Waixing and Nanjing Tech were still releasing and selling Famicom games. Even Sachen was selling Famicom games up through 2007 or so.

Here are just a few random thoughts I had while walking home, for what they are worth:

1. I think a lot of these homebrew hobbyists are either terrible with marketing / business, or they don't care about the money. I keep hearing how they should get compensated for their work being tossed around, but if they cared about the money, why are most homebrewers only releasing games on one format (i.e. NES, not Famicom as well)? Back in the day the argument was because molds for shells were too expensive to make, but by now we have molds, we have PCBs, so it's literally just a conscious choice not to offer both formats. It would be like if I recorded music with my band and we only released our recordings on cassettes or records or something. Huge market that would be missed.

2. For these types of projects, people shouldn't be going into it "for the money". I mean, you can, and it's certainly a point to consider, but unless you're out of the 9-5 crowd, you should do it as a labor of love. On my Family Bits book for example, I'm only earning about $10 a book. I don't think I'll sell tons of them, as it's a very niche market, and although I would absolutely love for this to help me out financially, at the end of the day I made it because I felt it was something I wanted to do. Some of the old timer HB guys once said they made the games that they wanted to make. It's fine to take that approach if you're just doing it as a hobby, but if you're doing it for the money, then you gotta listen to what the customers want. Then again, I guess this goes back to point number 1.

3. We've seen the situation with digitalized movies and music, heck we even saw it with video games back in the late 80s and early 90s (well most of us haven't likely seen it, but folks in poorer countries where piracy was rampant did see it). People bootlegged, people downloaded, people used the items for free; however, they producer gained brand loyalty in exchange. By now, piracy of video games in Taiwan isn't really a thing, and I don't know anyone who downloads songs or movies illegally - people pay for Netflix or Spotafy or whatever, and are more than happy to do so.

Some people might download and play the games illegally, but it isn't going to hurt sales. At most, it's free publicity. Now I hear you barking big dog, but regarding the lost sale:

a. The person just "collects" ROMs and wouldn't have bought the game anyways, probably won't even play it

b. The person played the game, loved it, then decides to buy the real thing when / if the opportunity arises

c. The person played the game, hated it. Well they probably won't buy the real thing, but I honestly wouldn't want a dissatisfied customer either.

4. At the end of the day, gamers and collectors want  to buy games and support people in their community. I have an everdrive but I never use it. As a quick aside, I own a complete full set of Japanese Famicom games; I decided to collect these games solely because I had found a lot of bootleg versions locally, and felt that even if I weren't supporting the companies with my purchases, I could at least have enough respect for the developers to own legitimate copies too (I have about 1/3 of the licensed Famicom set in bootleg format too, single carts).

I bought some bootlegs of homebrew games on Aliexpress in Famicom format. If I want to play NES games, I can either use an adaptor with my Famicom (which would get nasty, with a cat that loves to race and tear around the apartment at night), or I could try to play them on my old toaster NES (which is a chore to get the games to run). That being said, if / when those games get official Famicom releases, I'll go back and purchase the real version as well, to help support the developer and community.

We're not a bunch of poor teenagers anymore who just want to play free games or listen to the latest rap album, downloaded illegally.

On a different note, the biggest turn off for me, by far, in the homebrew scene (and the homebrew scene is easily my favorite part of gaming by now) is the limited availability of games. If you even do so much as fart, you lose out. Then again I guess this goes back to my points about business sense and whether they're trying to make money or not.

[Orab Games | 97]

5 hours ago, OptOut said:

I have no skin in this discussion whatsoever, but I found this particular statement pretty contradictory... How is limiting the distribution of Homebrew games to incredibly scarce and highly expensive releases supposed to help expand interest in Homebrew games?

I personally don't have much experience with any homebrew games, specifically BECAUSE I have very few avenues to obtain them, they are not on my radar whatsoever. I would have thought having at least the ROMs of homebrew games floating around freely out there would INCREASE the interest in them, not decrease it?

 

Other than that, I have really no input on this discussion, I just thought that was an odd argument.

Want to know why most people have given up their collections? Because it got too expensive and got a raspberry pi with a bunch of illegal roms. When the avenue to free vs paid for is there, free will be chosen most often.

[fcgamer | 4,724]

5 minutes ago, Orab Games said:

Want to know why most people have given up their collections? Because it got too expensive and got a raspberry pi with a bunch of illegal roms. When the avenue to free vs paid for is there, free will be chosen most often.

Strongly disagree. I'd like to see evidence supporting this, as from every situation that I've seen, it hasn't been that way at all.

 

[Orab Games | 97]

1 minute ago, fcgamer said:

Strongly disagree. I'd like to see evidence supporting this, as from every situation that I've seen, it hasn't been that way at all.

 

Obviously I can't prove this and you know that. It is only my experience from those I know who sold their collections. I'm not here to toss their names out. Off the top of my head of those I personally know who did this, the count sits at 7 or 8. Used the money for something they really wanted to do and condensed their collection to a pi or powerpak. I honestly don't know a single person who sold their entire collection and don't have one of those options to still play.

[fcgamer | 4,724]

5 minutes ago, Orab Games said:

Used the money for something they really wanted to do and condensed their collection to a pi or powerpak. 

The people who went this route likely kept around a way of playing their favourite games, i.e. they aren't likely to be filling up the pi or powerpak with full sets of roms, and if they did,  I don't think the intention is there to be playing every game, and if they're that out of the game, so to speak, they aren't going to be wanting to play those homebrew games anyways. 

You said it yourself with your own words even, they moved on and priorized something else over having a bunch of physical objects. This has nothing to do with them wanting to use ROMs so they can play for free, and probably any that were still interested in games, would gladly just purchase a ROM of the game, when given the option.

 

[Orab Games | 97]

1 hour ago, fcgamer said:

Nice Code is making NES games for plug n play machines and other items, yet people keep buying, reverse engineering, and dumping the ROMs. The same thing happened when Nintendo released their DK ROM with one of their wii (?) machines a few years back. Aaand, this conversation has been going on since the Nintendo Age days, and back then companies like Waixing and Nanjing Tech were still releasing and selling Famicom games. Even Sachen was selling Famicom games up through 2007 or so.

Here are just a few random thoughts I had while walking home, for what they are worth:

1. I think a lot of these homebrew hobbyists are either terrible with marketing / business, or they don't care about the money. I keep hearing how they should get compensated for their work being tossed around, but if they cared about the money, why are most homebrewers only releasing games on one format (i.e. NES, not Famicom as well)? Back in the day the argument was because molds for shells were too expensive to make, but by now we have molds, we have PCBs, so it's literally just a conscious choice not to offer both formats. It would be like if I recorded music with my band and we only released our recordings on cassettes or records or something. Huge market that would be missed.

2. For these types of projects, people shouldn't be going into it "for the money". I mean, you can, and it's certainly a point to consider, but unless you're out of the 9-5 crowd, you should do it as a labor of love. On my Family Bits book for example, I'm only earning about $10 a book. I don't think I'll sell tons of them, as it's a very niche market, and although I would absolutely love for this to help me out financially, at the end of the day I made it because I felt it was something I wanted to do. Some of the old timer HB guys once said they made the games that they wanted to make. It's fine to take that approach if you're just doing it as a hobby, but if you're doing it for the money, then you gotta listen to what the customers want. Then again, I guess this goes back to point number 1.

3. We've seen the situation with digitalized movies and music, heck we even saw it with video games back in the late 80s and early 90s (well most of us haven't likely seen it, but folks in poorer countries where piracy was rampant did see it). People bootlegged, people downloaded, people used the items for free; however, they producer gained brand loyalty in exchange. By now, piracy of video games in Taiwan isn't really a thing, and I don't know anyone who downloads songs or movies illegally - people pay for Netflix or Spotafy or whatever, and are more than happy to do so.

Some people might download and play the games illegally, but it isn't going to hurt sales. At most, it's free publicity. Now I hear you barking big dog, but regarding the lost sale:

a. The person just "collects" ROMs and wouldn't have bought the game anyways, probably won't even play it

b. The person played the game, loved it, then decides to buy the real thing when / if the opportunity arises

c. The person played the game, hated it. Well they probably won't buy the real thing, but I honestly wouldn't want a dissatisfied customer either.

4. At the end of the day, gamers and collectors want  to buy games and support people in their community. I have an everdrive but I never use it. As a quick aside, I own a complete full set of Japanese Famicom games; I decided to collect these games solely because I had found a lot of bootleg versions locally, and felt that even if I weren't supporting the companies with my purchases, I could at least have enough respect for the developers to own legitimate copies too (I have about 1/3 of the licensed Famicom set in bootleg format too, single carts).

I bought some bootlegs of homebrew games on Aliexpress in Famicom format. If I want to play NES games, I can either use an adaptor with my Famicom (which would get nasty, with a cat that loves to race and tear around the apartment at night), or I could try to play them on my old toaster NES (which is a chore to get the games to run). That being said, if / when those games get official Famicom releases, I'll go back and purchase the real version as well, to help support the developer and community.

We're not a bunch of poor teenagers anymore who just want to play free games or listen to the latest rap album, downloaded illegally.

On a different note, the biggest turn off for me, by far, in the homebrew scene (and the homebrew scene is easily my favorite part of gaming by now) is the limited availability of games. If you even do so much as fart, you lose out. Then again I guess this goes back to my points about business sense and whether they're trying to make money or not.

You do you. We don't have to agree and I can honestly say, you and I are not going to agree with a lot on this. I can sit here and rebuttal back and forth until we are blue in the face, neither of us are budging from our stance. I can't control what options you choose to play games on as much as you can control what consoles devs release games for. Spend your money and time how you want, and devs will spend their money and time how they want.

You also missed the entire point that was being made. Either VGS is a platform that supports homebrewers or it isn't. Once people no longer feel supported or their wishes and opinions are not respected, they will eventually stop coming. So, if I see people going against the developers wishes, why would I support that? This developer chose not to release the rom, but from what I see, entitlement > dev's choice.

[Orab Games | 97]

2 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

The people who went this route likely kept around a way of playing their favourite games, i.e. they aren't likely to be filling up the pi or powerpak with full sets of roms, and if they did,  I don't think the intention is there to be playing every game, and if they're that out of the game, so to speak, they aren't going to be wanting to play those homebrew games anyways. 

You said it yourself with your own words even, they moved on and priorized something else over having a bunch of physical objects. This has nothing to do with them wanting to use ROMs so they can play for free, and probably any that were still interested in games, would gladly just purchase a ROM of the game, when given the option.

 

Many of these people literally said before or after selling "I already have all the games in rom format, why would I keep physical copies?" Please stop trying to manipulate what I heard with my very ears and saw with my very eyes. From the people I know, it was one of many factors in their decision, period. I don't see how you are even debating this. Just because my facts contradict your thoughts on the matter? You hate being wrong? Why keep beating the dead horse?

[fcgamer | 4,724]

8 minutes ago, Orab Games said:

I can't control what options you choose to play games on as much as you can control what consoles devs release games for. Spend your money and time how you want, and devs will spend their money and time how they want.

My point is two-fold:

A. Size and scope of the company shouldn't dictate whether "preservation" on modern productions is okay or not. Period.

B. If they are concerned about the money issue, they need to listen to customer feedback. If they tried to please the (small/niche) customer base, we wouldn't even be discussing 90% of this nonsense, as it wouldn't be an issue.

[Tanooki | 4,934]

7 hours ago, Dr. Morbis said:

I'd like to know why it's okay to pirate Super Mario 3, or whatever games you've emulated on your pc, but it's not okay to pirate Star Keeper?

Once again, I agree with you in principle 100% that piracy of games against the ip owner's wishes is completely wrong, but this wholier than thou attitude you've got going on really is a joke if you seriously think that homebrewer's rights are somehow more important than the rights of larger companies.

Thank you for not leaving me twisting in the wind alone on that.  The hypocrisy here on this is utterly laughable and insane.  Kind of like I said, guess it's ok to rip off the big bad corporation as the possible excuse, as if that makes it any better.  A company(or fan) of one/few is ok, but get a board room involved ARR matey.  Yeah...nope.

I'd like to see that question answered by anyone here saying it's not right to want Starkeeper or any of them publicly out there just because some amateur made it, it's a hypocritical double standard.  Any ip holders wishes should be cared about, but cares shouldn't end at some personally comfort self chosen line in the sand.

 

One funny thing I commonly see why it's ok to burn on the big companies is that well if they don't care to make it for sale or use(like switch classic services in their $20/yr acct) then fuck em, they deserve it.  Ok, then by that nature, since Starkeepers author refuses to make more copies to meet demand, and the only choice is to buy from a shark, then fuck that guy too?  Seems that would be the logical progression of it, if you can't get it for a price from the maker, then wild west tactics are on the table.

[Orab Games | 97]

8 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

My point is two-fold:

A. Size and scope of the company shouldn't dictate whether "preservation" on modern productions is okay or not. Period.

B. If they are concerned about the money issue, they need to listen to customer feedback. If they tried to please the (small/niche) customer base, we wouldn't even be discussing 90% of this nonsense, as it wouldn't be an issue.

Preservation is just a word thrown out by those that really mean "I WANT ROMZ, oMg!!" It's not preservation, it's theft. Real preservation respects the IP owner.

[Orab Games | 97]

5 minutes ago, Tanooki said:

Thank you for not leaving me twisting in the wind alone on that.  The hypocrisy here on this is utterly laughable and insane.  Kind of like I said, guess it's ok to rip off the big bad corporation as the possible excuse, as if that makes it any better.  A company(or fan) of one/few is ok, but get a board room involved ARR matey.  Yeah...nope.

I'd like to see that question answered by anyone here saying it's not right to want Starkeeper or any of them publicly out there just because some amateur made it, it's a hypocritical double standard.  Any ip holders wishes should be cared about, but cares shouldn't end at some personally comfort self chosen line in the sand.

 

One funny thing I commonly see why it's ok to burn on the big companies is that well if they don't care to make it for sale or use(like switch classic services in their $20/yr acct) then fuck em, they deserve it.  Ok, then by that nature, since Starkeepers author refuses to make more copies to meet demand, and the only choice is to buy from a shark, then fuck that guy too?  Seems that would be the logical progression of it, if you can't get it for a price from the maker, then wild west tactics are on the table.

Humans are hypocrites. Welcome to life. And welcome to capitalism as well? You are telling me that you wouldn't sell your possession for market value? See, everyone's a hypocrite! The seller didn't shark it, it went to auction and bought by the highest bidder. Should the seller message the winner and say "Hey man, I bought this for $60, so you only need to pay that much."?

Edited April 28, 2022 by Orab Games

[Tanooki | 4,934]

NO, you're making the assumption that it's the excuse for theft.  And it's a damned flimsy one at that you're using to justify a poor argument with holes in it.

Starkeeper if it were for sale right now, I'd buy it, from what I could see at least.  Usually I like to try before I buy, I'm not a bottomless well to spend on crap.  I've done this since ROMs trickled out in the 1990s (been online since 1995.)  If one thing I've been consistent, when I have questions, I go find the file and try it out, console, handheld, PC even.  Yup it's warez, but warez because there aren't any shareware(z) about it.  Because of this I could argue I've saved thousands of dollars, but it would be a half truth, because I've also tried out some assumed utter shite I saw in NP magazine in the day, or old videos and pics online and discovered they weren't crap, and I'd seek and acquire so it went both ways.

Anyone arguing it's ok for one way and not both is just making excuses to cover their shitty protectionist gate keeping attitude and needs to curb it.  You can't have it one way and not the other, they're in the same general market and same rules apply.  If you have a product, make it available, otherwise someone else will, end of story.  Create a wall, someone will tear it down. Starkeeper will get released, sooner than later would be my guess, since the author seems to not care a bit of making money on it and letting high dollar shenanigans ensue so I have no pity, mercy, or care about hurt feelings on that.  Whether it's that guy, or someone making cheap runs of Aerofighters SNES or Little Samson up on aliexpress for $10 are doing it because they can and because the supplier refuses to fill a hole and that makes any of them equally fair game.

 

 

And lately, not historically, I have been selling stuff locally for a good chunk off so called 'fair' value.  I'm fed up with ebay and the rest of the bs around it, so when I'm done, I'll pass a deal onto a local or on here through largely trades.  You're making stupid weightless comments to justify your own hypocrisy, shame on you entirely.

Edited April 28, 2022 by Tanooki

[Orab Games | 97]

57 minutes ago, Tanooki said:

NO, you're making the assumption that it's the excuse for theft.  And it's a damned flimsy one at that you're using to justify a poor argument with holes in it.

 

It's not an excuse, IT IS THEFT! It's literally written as a law. The only thing flimsy about it is the law doesn't fit your narrative on the matter and you are butthurt that you don't get free things. It's not gate keeping. No one is stopping you from buying homebrews or saying you can't. I would really like to have a 1966 Mustang, but since I can't go buy one new, I'm entitled to a free one because people are selling used ones higher than I want to spend? Just because I can't clone a Mustang doesn't make one more right than the other.

Edited April 28, 2022 by Orab Games