POLL: Who do you expect will win? (NOT who do you want to win)

[Tulpa | 3,492]

5 minutes ago, The Strangest said:

So foreign interference in the last election was fine but counting all of the votes is where we draw the line when it comes to fraud

You see, it's like this...

2016: Well, maybe Russia tried something, but the Ukraine did, too, and Hilary had Benghazi and what not. It's really better that we elected Trump.

2020: MY GUY DIDN'T WIN!! FRAUD!!! *throwing things*

 

Simple.

Edited November 7, 2020 by Tulpa

[ThePhleo | 2,184]

18 minutes ago, Gloves said:

I use Opera.

Ah, the classiest of web browsers.

 

17 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

I'm using Firefox and I see them just fine.

...oh

What kind of ghetto-ass Firefox am I using then?

[Tulpa | 3,492]

Mine's 82.0.2, using Windows 10.

[phart010 | 1,707]

The disputed states really need to get triple counted and sent up to the Supreme Court for a final decision. Think about how many Republicans are in disbelief right now. We can’t have a united country for the next four years while a large portion of the population believes that the president won by cheating.

If it gets properly vetted, there will no longer be any room for people to disagree with the findings and we can accept the decision and get on with our lives.

[Strange | 1,700]

20 minutes ago, phart010 said:

The disputed states really need to get triple counted and sent up to the Supreme Court for a final decision. Think about how many Republicans are in disbelief right now. We can’t have a united country for the next four years while a large portion of the population believes that the president won by cheating.

If it gets properly vetted, there will no longer be any room for people to disagree with the findings and we can accept the decision and get on with our lives.

I agree. Let it be counted three times so it can be cemented that the American people rejected Trump. 

Kinda iffy on the Supreme Court thing. If the recounts show no errors then there’s no need. We have a flawed Supreme Court right now that is heavily biased toward Trump. Having a country with a portion of the people believing the president cheated for the next 8 years isn’t nearly as bad as a country where everyone knows the election was stolen from us by our current farce of a Supreme Court for the next 4 years.

EDIT: clarity

Edited November 7, 2020 by The Strangest

[Tanooki | 4,933]

I'd agree, anything under 40k or so votes needs a hard overly strictly monitored recount.  Just because the election was Tuesday legally they don't even without court interference certify for awhile yet, and even further to select those electors too.  There's no issue holding back until it's all said and done.

All that to the side for a moment, PA is a curious one whatever your side may be.  The state constitution doesn't allow for election ballot deadline extension and would require an act of state congress which didn't happen, a rando judge decided on his own to get involved.  In turn the US Supreme COurt had all those ballots put to the side, counted, but segregated if the vote got way too close for either side as a 'win.'  Trump or Biden if I were their camp I'd demand the SC step in and do something to knock it down.  Either make the law stick, and the late ones don't count, or allow that shit, and set a potentially scary precedent allowing it to happen every 2-4 years anyone gets too close going forward. The lawyers would love that.

Given current gaps on these states I hope they are required to hard check all this: GA (8K),PA (37K), WI (20K), NV (26K), and AZ (21K) a they're just too close to allow insane behavior and stupid antics.

 

 

Also phart: I don't think this alone would help as I'm agreeing with you in my post, but there's another problem.  The left and the media weaponized the hell out of the virus to win too. The amount of sleazy baseless attack ads, media rantings, double talking two faced comments based on the time frame also cost votes to Trump too whether you're a fan or not, it was wrong.  Running on 'Did someone you know die, Trump killed them' as a message is bullshit.  He said some dumb and reckless stuff, but he didn't physically stop things from happening either, even early on he got called a racist and xenophobe for closing airport traffic, then when it turned out to be a good idea, he then got shit on for not being fast enough.  People remember that crap who paid attention and didn't just drink the kool-aid.  I think a good number of those close states wouldn't have been close at all with that, and Biden would have easily lost with similar EC in the 300s had the virus never occurred at all.  With record unemployment and underpayment for the black and latino community, negotiating middle east peace with 3 countries to date with Isreal, and not getting us engaged into another war kind of made him look not all that bad around his insane twitter crappings.

Edited November 8, 2020 by Tanooki

[Tulpa | 3,492]

34 minutes ago, phart010 said:

The disputed states really need to get triple counted and sent up to the Supreme Court for a final decision.

 

No, there's no need for the SCOTUS to get involved. It's not in their purview without an actual suit being filed first, anyway. Keep the government running as was laid out in the Constitution.

Do the recounts if the state law mandates it. It's usually 0.5%.

Let the states have their rights to the election, and let's not be making shit up on the fly.

Edited November 8, 2020 by Tulpa

[Tulpa | 3,492]

6 minutes ago, Tanooki said:

Given current gaps on these states I hope they are required to hard check all this: GA (8K),PA (37K), WI (20K), NV (26K), and AZ (21K) a they're just too close to allow insane behavior and stupid antics.

It's not about the amount, it's the percentage. Most states have it around 0.5% difference. More than that, usually no recount.

[Tabonga | 2,317]

3 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

It's not about the amount, it's the percentage. Most states have it around 0.5% difference. More than that, usually no recount.

 

That is for automatic recounts - which the host state would pay for.

They can be requested (I assume by anyone with standing) - some states have a higher percentage for that than than the automatic recount while some don't seem to have any requirement at all*.  The requester has to pay for it though.

*It is not clear (at least where I looked) whether the states have to grant this or not in this situation.

[Tulpa | 3,492]

Suffice it to say, I don't see any recount happening except Georgia, and that wouldn't change anything.

Plus, with the Trump campaign broke, I don't see them footing the bill for any.

Edited November 8, 2020 by Tulpa

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

2 hours ago, ThePhleo said:

Nope :V

 

Then again I'm one of only like...10 people on the planet still using Firefox because I hate google.

Mine's broken in the exact same way, and I'm also using the newest (82.0.2, 64-bit) under Windows 10, just like Tulpa, @Gloves.  I am using an ad blocker by default (Adblock Plus), but it doesn't block these types of quotes/inserts anywhere else that I travel, FYI.  @ThePhleo, you're not alone!

[Tabonga | 2,317]

13 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

Suffice it to say, I don't see any recount happening except Georgia, and that wouldn't change anything.

Plus, with the Trump campaign broke, I don't see them footing the bill for any.

Whether they actually occur or not is different than if they could* occur. 

*Which was my point.

Edited November 8, 2020 by Tabonga

[Quest4Nes | 376]

If this is true, then this election is just straight up questionable to me. People want to claim its because people hated trump, but i mean if thats the case then why did more minorites vote for him this time over last time and as im typing he received 8-9 million more votes so far than he did last election. Looks like the senate will probably stay red. Red team gained in the house. Not one single state legislature seat was flipped in this entire country from red to blue. I just find it very odd this election played out the way it did. Every indication is the incumbent president would coast to a victory with these factors. Biden isnt a very appealing candidate and yet he gets the most votes in the history of this country? Out performing nationally barack "jesus christ 2" obama?

 

No matter the outcome here, Im not going to act like a baby about it, and ill move on. But I just have to say. This is very weird and Id like to see some of the irregularities exposed so maybe we can fix them in the future. I am sick of the "where is the evidence" crowd. It takes time to investigate things. I know this will bring to light system problems that need to be corrected and procedural corrections for the future. We basically learned what not to do in the future. Mass Mail Balloting just leads to skepticism and sows doubt. Next election better be a return to being at the polls.

Edited November 8, 2020 by Quest4Nes

[phart010 | 1,707]

3 hours ago, The Strangest said:

I agree. Let it be counted three times so it can be cemented that the American people rejected Trump. 

Kinda iffy on the Supreme Court thing. If the recounts show no errors then there’s no need. We have a flawed Supreme Court right now that is heavily biased toward Trump. Having a country with a portion of the people believing the president cheated for the next 8 years isn’t nearly as bad as a country where everyone knows the election was stolen from us by our current farce of a Supreme Court for the next 4 years.

EDIT: clarity

I disagree with the notion that the Supreme is iffy. You can’t get into the Supreme Court if you have biases. That why it’s the highest court. Too much scrutiny on every decision you make and your decision as a justice is justified in writing for people to review. Sure there are people that are more liberal or conservative. But in their decisions they will always separate their personal inclinations from their interpretations of the law.They get nominated based on their track record of good unbiased judgement. 

SC Justices are there for life and they dont have to worry about displeasing ANYBODY or getting fired. Also loyalties to any special interests don’t get them any special treatment, they already have a the highest position they can possibly get and they have it permanently. So there’s no reason for a justice to have biases towards a party or president, they’ll still hold their position long after both of these guys running for office have died of old age.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,521]

31 minutes ago, Quest4Nes said:

Next election better be a return to being at the polls

Well, 2020 was rather extraordinary circumstances...

And people can be pissed about this all they want.  But the simple truth is, if Trump had tried to give the pandemic the slightest amount of credance, if he hadn't spent 4 years spewing diarrhea on twitter, if he hadn't tried to demonize and divide our country, if he had tried to be a LEADER, his reelection would have been a slam dunk.

[phart010 | 1,707]

3 hours ago, Tulpa said:

No, there's no need for the SCOTUS to get involved. It's not in their purview without an actual suit being filed first, anyway. Keep the government running as was laid out in the Constitution.

Do the recounts if the state law mandates it. It's usually 0.5%.

Let the states have their rights to the election, and let's not be making shit up on the fly.

There are allegations of voter fraud being made. People are building the cases at this very moment.
 

Who cares whether you are for Trump or Biden, these are serious accusations. People are questioning the integrity of the election process. If people don’t stand down (and doesn’t look like they are going to) it is starting to look like it could turn into a civil war. 

For something that has big consequences like this, I can’t see it NOT getting appealed to the highest court. Whatever decision they court comes up with, people should just accept it, and move on with life.

[Californication | 1,477]

25 minutes ago, phart010 said:

I disagree with the notion that the Supreme is iffy. You can’t get into the Supreme Court if you have biases. That why it’s the highest court. Too much scrutiny on every decision you make and your decision as a justice is justified in writing for people to review. Sure there are people that are more liberal or conservative. But in their decisions they will always separate their personal inclinations from their interpretations of the law.They get nominated based on their track record of good unbiased judgement. 

SC Justices are there for life and they dont have to worry about displeasing ANYBODY or getting fired. Also loyalties to any special interests don’t get them any special treatment, they already have a the highest position they can possibly get and they have it permanently. So there’s no reason for a justice to have biases towards a party or president, they’ll still hold their position long after both of these guys running for office have died of old age.

The supreme has pretty much lost its legitimacy. It's a political tool and has been for a long time. 

Almost every sentence in this paragraph is wrong.

1. You can't get on the supreme court if your biased. - wrong

2. They get nominated based on their track record of good unbiased judgement. - wrong

3.loyalties to special interests dom't get them special treatment - wrong

4. There's no reason for a justice to have biases towards a party or president. - wrong.

The 2000 election was stolen by the supreme court. And three of the people that helped with that theft are now on the supreme court. And the republicans have had the majority of the supreme court picks even though the democrats have won the most votes in six of the last seven elections. It's an illegitimate part of the govt.

Edited November 8, 2020 by Californication

[Californication | 1,477]

3 minutes ago, phart010 said:

There are allegations of voter fraud being made. People are building the cases at this very moment.
 

Who cares whether you are for Trump or Biden, these are serious accusations. People are questioning the integrity of the election process. If people don’t stand down (and doesn’t look like they are going to) it is starting to look like it could turn into a civil war. 

For something that has big consequences like this, I can’t see it NOT getting appealed to the highest court. Whatever decision they court comes up with, people should just accept it, and move on with life.

They have allegations with no evidence. They are wasting time and trying to steal an electiom.

They were making allegations of voter fraud before any votes were cast to disenfrachise hundreds of thousands of people across the country. 

 

[phart010 | 1,707]

18 minutes ago, Californication said:

They have allegations with no evidence. They are wasting time and trying to steal an electiom.

They were making allegations of voter fraud before any votes were cast to disenfrachise hundreds of thousands of people across the country. 

 

We will see. True, there were broad baseless allegations before the election. Now there are specific allegations from named individuals against other named individuals. I would say that testimonials are evidence. And if there is anything to be found out, then there will be a smoking gun. 
 

Whether or not any of this is credible is to be found out by investigators and scrutinized by the court system. If you don’t trust in the courts, then I don’t know what to tell you.

Doesn't matter if they are wasting time, Biden can’t assume office until 2021 anyways. I think at the end of the day, if you get enough eyes on matters like this, nobody can steal it, your either going to find that allegations were false and Biden moves forward in 2021 or allegations were true and they adjust the count.

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

Anyone who thinks any lawsuits Trump brings are legit are straight kidding themselves. 
 

Ben Ginsberg has said they have no chance. No real legit lawyers are even bothering. Who does trump have leading the charge? Rudy and pam bondi? LOL

 

 

They held their press conferences at a landscape supply next to a porn shop :

https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-end-of-the-line-for-trumpland-is-a-poorly-rated-sex-shop-in-north-philly

 

 

 

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

11 minutes ago, phart010 said:

We will see. True, there were broad baseless allegations before the election. Now there are specific allegations from named individuals against other named individuals. I would say that testimonials are evidence. And if there is anything to be found out, then there will be a smoking gun. 
 

Whether or not any of this is credible is to be found out by investigators and scrutinized by the court system. If you don’t trust in the courts, then I don’t know what to tell you.

Doesn't matter if they are wasting time, Biden can’t assume office until 2021 anyways. I think at the end of the day, if you get enough eyes on matters like this, nobody can steal it, your either going to find that allegations were false and Biden moves forward in 2021 or allegations were true and they adjust the count.

What could’ve possibly happened that would cause tens of thousands of votes to get overturned across multiple states?

 

Who are the named individuals?

[attakid101 | 267]

45 minutes ago, phart010 said:

We will see. True, there were broad baseless allegations before the election. Now there are specific allegations from named individuals against other named individuals. I would say that testimonials are evidence. And if there is anything to be found out, then there will be a smoking gun. 
 

Whether or not any of this is credible is to be found out by investigators and scrutinized by the court system. If you don’t trust in the courts, then I don’t know what to tell you.

Doesn't matter if they are wasting time, Biden can’t assume office until 2021 anyways. I think at the end of the day, if you get enough eyes on matters like this, nobody can steal it, your either going to find that allegations were false and Biden moves forward in 2021 or allegations were true and they adjust the count.

When this investigation eventually turns up no impropriety, Trump will then deny the validity of the investigation.

There’s no reality where Trump concedes graciously. He’ll go to his grave claiming that this election was stolen—undermining the mechanics of our democracy.

And why? Because he doesn’t want to give up power. I suppose it’s possible that he has sincere love for this country and genuinely believes he’d do a better job serving as president, so maybe in his mind the ends justify the means.

Even still, what he’s doing is dangerous. 

And he set us all up for it.

He knew—EVERYONE KNEW—that dems would vote predominantly via mail in ballots. And he knew that because of this, votes would take longer to count so the final results would take days, if not longer. So he urged his supporters to vote in person. Because he knew Biden would have to wait for his votes. He knew that if Biden was going to gain ground it wouldn’t be until after Tuesday night. And so his supporters had been sufficiently prepped to accept the “stolen election” narrative. 

On Tuesday night Trump’s re-election looked like a foregone conclusion. Then slowly (and predictably) Biden’s mail-in ballots overtook him. But Trump had already sown the seeds of doubts in his voter’s minds. It’s fucking genius really.

And now tens of millions of citizens believe that democracy failed.

And this is goddamn America. AMERICA. The beacon of representational governance. Disgraceful.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 8, 2020 by attakid101

[Optomon | 65]

I wouldn't call it genius. It's just a cowardly and despicable machination to cling to power that works. Sinfully easy card to play once you have power.

[phart010 | 1,707]

37 minutes ago, MrWunderful said:

What could’ve possibly happened that would cause tens of thousands of votes to get overturned across multiple states?

 

Who are the named individuals?

What could have happened? I don’t know. That’s why we should look into the allegations to see if there’s any substance. Maybe it’s all BS. Maybe there’s something there. 
 

I don’t have a horse in this race. I actually voted libertarian. Your reply sounds like you are invested in the outcome. If I spend the time to lookup names of people, is it really going to make a dent with you? If you really care to know, you can easily google it. 
 

It’s important to treat this stuff seriously because if you don’t, half the country will feel that their complaints were ignored. They will reject the new president and we will never be united. Look into this stuff, even if you know it’s complete BS just to put the other half of the country at ease.

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

4 minutes ago, phart010 said:

What could have happened? I don’t know. That’s why we should look into the allegations to see if there’s any substance. Maybe it’s all BS. Maybe there’s something there. 
 

I don’t have a horse in this race. I actually voted libertarian. Your reply sounds like you are invested in the outcome. If I spend the time to lookup names of people, is it really going to make a dent with you? If you really care to know, you can easily google it. 
 

It’s important to treat this stuff seriously because if you don’t, half the country will feel that their complaints were ignored. They will reject the new president and we will never be united. Look into this stuff, even if you know it’s complete BS just to put the other half of the country at ease.

I have been following very closely, including looking into the specific suits that are ongoing. Havent seen anything about “named persons” so I was curious what information you had. 
https://time.com/5908505/trump-lawsuits-biden-wins/

^here is a list of current lawsuits^ So not sure what you are referring to.

And who isnt taking it serious? Me, or the judges that are throwing the cases out because they have no merit? Or The state attorney generals calling the suits “absurd”  ?

I want every legal vote counted. Everyone does. 
 
Trumps entire career is built on frivolous garbage lawsuits, this is just more of the same. Except this time you arent ripping off contractors that you didnt pay.