POLL: Who do you expect will win? (NOT who do you want to win)

[Tulpa | 3,488]

Looks like the Georgia recount is complete.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/georgia-recount-complete-and-biden-is-still-the-winner-01605831626

Wisconsin is still doing theirs, but it's unlikely to change, either.

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

50 minutes ago, phart010 said:

One thing he said that rang loudly to me and I’ll never forget is  “a plane crash is the easiest way to assassinate someone.”

Has this man heard of a gun?

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

2 hours ago, phart010 said:

I wonder whether they will actually pursue any charges on him. Even assuming they have damning evidence on him from a-z, I think the US government considers that would be a bad decision for US domestically and in foreign policy. It would send a bad message to the international community. What becomes the status of  international agreements that were made during the Trump administration? If we say Trump was a criminal and throw him in jail, do those agreements he made lose legitimacy??

What about legislation he signed. If he’s a criminal we have archived legislation that signed off and approved by a criminal. 
 

Assuming no twists with the electoral college and he peacefully leaves the White House, I think they let him walk and at worst try to stop him from being eligible for a second term. Joe Biden already said he’s not going to pursue any charges.

There are enough state-level charges against him that the federal government doesn't have jurisdiction to block that something is going to come his way.

 

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

1 hour ago, CodysGameRoom said:

Has this man heard of a gun?

I assume they're trying to say "easiest way to assassinate someone [without it looking like an assassination]"... but that is still pretty far from the truth.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,510]

This explains a lot

[Tulpa | 3,488]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/20/politics/georgia-certify-secretary-of-state-raffensperger/index.html

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/11/21/politics/federal-judge-dismisses-trump-pennsylvania-lawsuit/index.html

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/20/politics/nevada-election-results-republican-challenge/index.html

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/20/politics/michigan-house-speaker-will-meet-trump/index.html

Edited November 22, 2020 by Tulpa

[Tulpa | 3,488]

Oh, and so we don't leave Wisconsin out...

https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-joe-biden-donald-trump-wisconsin-elections-dcb7da95578fc7289122c6d372575a9b

[Reed Rothchild | 9,510]

Worst.  Kraken.  Ever.

[Link | 2,708]

On 11/19/2020 at 1:53 PM, arch_8ngel said:

And this is a genuine failure of the education system to turn out people capable of critical thought and able to identify obvious conspiracy theories.

(or possibly more fairly, just an indictment against the foolishness of people, in general)

I think it’s intentional, with tax cuts and other austerity measures, and the Texas textbook situation, undermining the public education system for decades.

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

11 hours ago, Link said:

I think it’s intentional, with tax cuts and other austerity measures, and the Texas textbook situation, undermining the public education system for decades.

People overseas are falling for the same kind of BS from their governments at surprisingly similar levels -- so I suspect it really is just a grim commentary on the gullibility of people in general.

Also have to consider how many Trump supporters were educated -- even college educated -- in a time decades ago when our schools were generally thought of as high quality.

To put an anecdote to it -- I know people that are well-educated career physicians, who I know had a private education from a top boarding school in the 70's, who supported Trump.

 

Then again -- maybe that is just a demonstration of how deep the indoctrination was in the 50's/60's/70's about the evils of communism, allowing Trump and the Republicans to tap into that fear as their most potent weapon against the Dems. (who in global geo-political terms are fairly centrist)

[Tulpa | 3,488]

I think a lot of it is the 24 hour news networks turning politics into a spectator sport. I mean, people (esp. Trump people) are supporting their candidate like they do their sports teams, with all the ugliness that accompanies it.

It doesn't help that the 24s are playing up emotions rather than actual news. Seriously, watch even the "hard news" segments with an objective eye. I mean, yes, all journalism does it to a degree, but it was never the sole reason for being before.

[guitarzombie | 924]

36 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

I think a lot of it is the 24 hour news networks turning politics into a spectator sport. I mean, people (esp. Trump people) are supporting their candidate like they do their sports teams, with all the ugliness that accompanies it.

It doesn't help that the 24s are playing up emotions rather than actual news. Seriously, watch even the "hard news" segments with an objective eye. I mean, yes, all journalism does it to a degree, but it was never the sole reason for being before.

Ive definitely said this in the past and IMO its a major problem.  A lot of times its 'as long as the other team doesn't win'.  It would be great to find a way to remove party affiliation for people running for president.  But then the candidates would be so spread out, you'd have a lot of unhappy people when theres 10 people running for office and the person that wins got 15% of the total vote.  If there was only a way to combine those two.  To keep it between 2 people (to keep the majority happy on their elected official, instead of a third happy) but being able to strip party affiliation to avoid people voting for the other team to lose.  If that makes any sense.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,510]

Ban political parties and limit everyone to single (but longer) terms in any given office.  Ban the filibuster, reform all lobby and campaigning, force mandatory attendance, and get rid of recess.

Obviously that opens up a million questions and complications, but that's the only way I know to make it work

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

1 hour ago, Reed Rothchild said:

Ban political parties and limit everyone to single (but longer) terms in any given office.  Ban the filibuster, reform all lobby and campaigning, force mandatory attendance, and get rid of recess.

Obviously that opens up a million questions and complications, but that's the only way I know to make it work

Agree with most of what you're saying -- but reducing the Senate to simple-majority is probably not good for long-staying-power legislation.

The idea of the filibuster is that only strongly supported (typically bipartisan) things can make it all the way through the process.

[Californication | 1,477]

2 hours ago, Reed Rothchild said:

Ban political parties and limit everyone to single (but longer) terms in any given office.  Ban the filibuster, reform all lobby and campaigning, force mandatory attendance, and get rid of recess.

Obviously that opens up a million questions and complications, but that's the only way I know to make it work

Or you could just get rid of money in politics.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,510]

2 hours ago, arch_8ngel said:

Agree with most of what you're saying -- but reducing the Senate to simple-majority is probably not good for long-staying-power legislation.

The idea of the filibuster is that only strongly supported (typically bipartisan) things can make it all the way through the process.

Then raise the number of needed votes

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

37 minutes ago, Reed Rothchild said:

Then raise the number of needed votes

That's what a filibuster is, basically.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,510]

9 minutes ago, arch_8ngel said:

That's what a filibuster is, basically.

I know, skip to the chase and avoid the potential to just waste time

[Tulpa | 3,488]

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/22/trump-campaign-sidney-powell-legal-439357

I guess "releasing the Kraken" means firing the attorney who coined the phrase.

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

10 hours ago, Tulpa said:

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/22/trump-campaign-sidney-powell-legal-439357

I guess "releasing the Kraken" means firing the attorney who coined the phrase.

My concern, on reading this, is that it is like the firing of Steve Bannon, which was really just letting them get arms-length from the president to continue to spout whatever BS they want to his followers.

[phart010 | 1,705]

19 hours ago, Californication said:

Or you could just get rid of money in politics.

Andrew Yang proposed “democracy dollars” to wash out the Financial influence of lobbyists. It’s actually a pretty good idea

[phart010 | 1,705]

21 hours ago, Reed Rothchild said:

Ban political parties and limit everyone to single (but longer) terms in any given office.  Ban the filibuster, reform all lobby and campaigning, force mandatory attendance, and get rid of recess.

Obviously that opens up a million questions and complications, but that's the only way I know to make it work

Not saying that Chinas one party system is the model we’d want to follow in the US, but in terms of long term planning China has something we don’t.

Since we have a 4 year election cycle, our Presidency has kind of devolved into a joke. You have people going around making special promises to special interest groups so that they can get the campaign financing needed to win. Then they spend 2 years fulfilling promises to special interests. Then they spend the next two years making short term policy decision they think will boost their popularity so they can hopefully get re-elected. When do they think about the long term of our country? Never. They are only thinking in the 4 year short term. Then the next president comes in and un-does all of the policy decisions of the previous president

Meanwhile in a country like China, they are making long term plans on a 20-30 year timeline. They may not look it right now, because their progress has only had a short run, but I can see China making big strides over the next few decades. I think our government sees it too, which is why they are doing things like tariffs and so on to try and slow China’s progress.

One thing China does not have that we do is variety of thought. This can keep us in check from going to extreme left or right, but can also bring progress to a halt when there’s no compromise.

[Californication | 1,477]

1 hour ago, phart010 said:

Andrew Yang proposed “democracy dollars” to wash out the Financial influence of lobbyists. It’s actually a pretty good idea

Agreed. That was the one proposal I liked from him.

[MrWunderful | 2,926]

12 hours ago, Tulpa said:

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/22/trump-campaign-sidney-powell-legal-439357

I guess "releasing the Kraken" means firing the attorney who coined the phrase.

You mean the elite strike force?

I hope these clowns get disbarred.
 

Looks like the FBI is looking back into Rudy’s Ukraine ties too. I am looking forward to the day that a real DOJ hammers all these losers, and destroys their legacy. 

[Link | 2,708]

On 11/23/2020 at 9:12 AM, phart010 said:

Then the next president comes in and un-does all of the policy decisions of the previous president

I don’t think I have observed this being the case prior to the current president. Could you point out some examples?