Heritage Auctions Thread

[ExplodedHamster | 404]

4 minutes ago, darkchylde28 said:

No way to be 100% factually certain without more information, but based on the documenation the guy presented when building his case, then the presentation of the screenshot when doubts were raised (obscuring the name/details of the folks who DID respond, presumably to respect their privacy on something that isn't on the public record), I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt.

It would be pretty easy for Karl to post a screenshot of the actual direct communication if he had it. What we are left with is hearsay from a blacked out third party.

[Zach | 186]

25 minutes ago, Gloves said:

 

 

I joined NA in 2017, and I became a staff member at the ass-end of it all collapsing. I have respect for the people I worked with to get VGS started.

You can bet your shiny metal ass though that I don't personally give anything resembling a single damn about "respected member of the community". I respect the people who I saw working hard to keep NA afloat when it was crumbling, with zero help from the dude who owned the site. 

That is to say, I dunno who's right or wrong here about this whole history of censoring or whatever. I can't say who I believe cuz I dunno what or who to believe in it. NA had a well-known history in other circles of being elitist, exclusionary, and censoring. I wish no such thing for VGS - if anyone thinks I or we are censoring things or shitting on people for their beliefs then lemme know, we'll try to sort it out.

I look at VGS as a fresh start for a gaming community that was on its last legs. This stands for people who were even banned or left NA for one reason or another. 

@Zach - to you specifically: I sense some history and bad blood. I'm fine with that. Heck, let it out man. I'm not stupid - you joined up this monday with the pretty clear intent to talk in this thread and probably, honestly, to shit on NA and members who you feel did you wrong in the past. Honestly? Cool man. You feel that this was all a long time coming and that this is maybe some sort of retribution or whatever. You're entitled to your thoughts, and I have no problem with you airing them out. Harassing people as I've said is pretty strictly not allowed, but you seem to have cooled it there, so cool.

All I can hope for is that maybe you're here doing it cuz you actually care about either gaming in general, or the community at large. Worst case, you're here to get your rocks off shitting on NA and get banned for harassing people. Or you can pivot and be part of the greater community when the dust settles. I'm always happy to see conflicting views, myself.

I'm doing it because I, and many others, were constantly harassed, gaslit, and bullied by these people for years. Just to give one example, I posted a story of how I scored a huge N64 lot at a yard sale and beat a local reseller by only a few minutes. I was banned for a week because one of the mods was a reseller for a living and told me I was "insulting his profession" (this guy works for WATA now btw). These people took a hobby that we all loved and shit all over it, then tried to tell us we were just "jealous" of them when we dared to speak up about it. You should see some of the insane shit RareBucky would say to people and the mods didn't care because he was their source for sealed games. The fact that Dain sold the entire site that we ALL contributed to without telling anyone just shows what kind of people these are. It was a clique full of elitists who tried to convince everyone else they weren't a clique full of elitists. This is the ultimate vindication for me and a lot of other people. The stuff they pulled was infuriating. 

[B.A. | 1,139]

57 minutes ago, Zach said:

I was there dude. Back when NA was the only place to get really detailed info so you were forced to be subjected to the gaslighting from these "pillars of the community". Remember the guy who always bought prototypes and unreleased games and held them hostage, then said he wanted to punch Pat Contri in the face? Yeah funny how he never got banned for that. At least now their little circlejerk has been exposed and they can't BS their way out of this 

Oh man I remember! Remember that guy who complained about the staff nonstop and how they banned everyone they didn't like. Funny how he never got banned either! Oh wait, that was you. 

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

Just now, ExplodedHamster said:

It would be pretty easy for Karl to post a screenshot of the actual direct communication if he had it. What we are left with is hearsay from a blacked out third party.

I'm thinking that @Jeevanwas probably spot on when he called it out as a Discord, so someone blacking out the name/server of a private Discord when he didn't get a response from the person he was reaching out to is warranted.  I'm still loving how folks keep throwing shit at this guy's motivations and what he shoulda/woulda/coulda but cannot factually refute any of the evidence he documented and provided, nor provide any facts that would show what the facts provided exposed in a different or better light.

[vb337 | 13]

1 minute ago, darkchylde28 said:

So, nothing to actually add to the conversation?  No actual, factual refutation?

I posted a list of six intelligent questions yesterday that were mostly ignored because they didn't suit your incredibly narrow view of the situation. I didn't need to resort to posting memes. But I'm done talking to little idiots like you anyway. I'll see myself out.

[Jeevan | 8,912]

1 minute ago, darkchylde28 said:

I'm thinking that @Jeevanwas probably spot on when he called it out as a Discord, so someone blacking out the name/server of a private Discord when he didn't get a response from the person he was reaching out to is warranted.  I'm still loving how folks keep throwing shit at this guy's motivations and what he shoulda/woulda/coulda but cannot factually refute any of the evidence he documented and provided, nor provide any facts that would show what the facts provided exposed in a different or better light.

not to mention it could be someone with a different username that does want to remain anonymous!

[Gulag Joe | 582]

1 minute ago, darkchylde28 said:

I'm thinking that @Jeevanwas probably spot on when he called it out as a Discord, so someone blacking out the name/server of a private Discord when he didn't get a response from the person he was reaching out to is warranted.  I'm still loving how folks keep throwing shit at this guy's motivations and what he shoulda/woulda/coulda but cannot factually refute any of the evidence he documented and provided, nor provide any facts that would show what the facts provided exposed in a different or better light.

The only factual information he provided is how everyone knew each other because they all work together and were friends prior to and during the Wata endeavor. But somehow, many of you translate that as being irrefutable evidence that they are all colluding and working together to bid up auctions on every video game auction in galaxy.

[ExplodedHamster | 404]

6 minutes ago, darkchylde28 said:

I'm thinking that @Jeevanwas probably spot on when he called it out as a Discord, so someone blacking out the name/server of a private Discord when he didn't get a response from the person he was reaching out to is warranted.  I'm still loving how folks keep throwing shit at this guy's motivations and what he shoulda/woulda/coulda but cannot factually refute any of the evidence he documented and provided, nor provide any facts that would show what the facts provided exposed in a different or better light.

I cannot speak to everything in the video, but I can absolutely refute general suggestions he’s made about all big sales being fake or whatever.

Edited August 25, 2021 by ExplodedHamster

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

1 minute ago, vb337 said:

I posted a list of six intelligent questions yesterday that were mostly ignored because they didn't suit your incredibly narrow view of the situation. I didn't need to resort to posting memes. But I'm done talking to little idiots like you anyway. I'll see myself out.

Man, thanks for giving me a wash of nostalgia.  I remember when I used to hang out on BBSs, polishing my "how to seem above it all, always be right, and always treat people like they're an asshole and I'm just doing my duty" skills.  Got older, wiser, and learned life isn't nearly as much fun when you spend all your time on that nonsense (even thought I've never quite gotten over being an asshole, deep down).  Ahh...the memories.

Anyway...bye!

 

[Zach | 186]

Remember when that guy found Stadium Events at a yard sale and the pillars of the community all made fun of him for being excited because it wasn't rare enough to their standards?

 

 

[WalterWhiteJr. | 1,162]

3 minutes ago, ExplodedHamster said:

I cannot speak to everything in the video, but I can absolutely refute general suggestions he’s made about all big sales being fake or whatever.

Oh god not again.

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

1 minute ago, ExplodedHamster said:

I cannot speak to everything in the video, but I can absolutely refute general suggestions he’s made about big sales being fake or whatever.

He showed that the one that got the ball rolling was, then provided testimony from a relative insider (son of someone who worked directly for the auction house) that specifically said he was certain they were shill bidding the hell out of stuff.  Not conclusive evidence on its own, but combined with the fact that Hertiage settled a similar suit brought against them out of court as quietly as possible (at first denying the shill bidder even existed, then admitting that they did and they knew them)...it starts looking fairly damning awfully quick.  With more substance to it than Deniz going on Pawn Stars as his own star expert.

[Rhapsody98 | 1,535]

8 minutes ago, ExplodedHamster said:

I cannot speak to everything in the video, but I can absolutely refute general suggestions he’s made about big sales being fake or whatever.

If I sell my cat to @darkchylde28for a million dollars, that would not be a fake sale.  He would have to give me the money.  The fact that the money has not changed households is a significant fact that should not be overlooked.  

But lets say that we release a press statement that Darkchylde has bought my cat.  We take pictures of him holding the cat, he shows off the bags of cat food and litter he's bought to care for the cat.  We make a big deal out of the fact that he is now the legal owner of said cat.  

 Then a week later, with no press release, I buy the cat back.  Neither sale has to be fake.   But the fact that in the meantime, he's gotten some sort of benefit of being the cats owner (at least temporarily), has to be pointed out.  

[DefaultGen | 5,407]

Oh boy. Not looking to insert myself into internet drama, but I'm the blacked out name on Discord. I sure didn't ask Karl to black me out like a mystery informant. Karl asked on Twitter one night if anyone knew anything about game collecting could join his Discord to talk about recent sales. Karl makes good videos, so I helped him understand a bit because he was literally at square zero (not recognizing for example that two games can be apart by $100k because on is players choice). He was hung up on Jeff and Dain being on the Wata SEC filing, which IIRC definitely came up on NintendoAge, but I obviously don't know the inner workings of Wata so I offered to try to put him in touch with Deniz, who ultimately decided not to reach out. Karl didn't attempt further himself, although I hope there's a follow up video if some of the players are willing to be interviewed. I wasn't involved in any part of part of the video's content besides some talking with Karl about understanding some crazy sales on Heritage.

[Rhapsody98 | 1,535]

16 minutes ago, vb337 said:

I posted a list of six intelligent questions yesterday that were mostly ignored because they didn't suit your incredibly narrow view of the situation. I didn't need to resort to posting memes. But I'm done talking to little idiots like you anyway. I'll see myself out.

[Zach | 186]

13 minutes ago, B.A. said:

Oh man I remember! Remember that guy who complained about the staff nonstop and how they banned everyone they didn't like. Funny how he never got banned either! Oh wait, that was you. 

It must really drive you nuts that you and your buddies can't control the narrative anymore 

[B.A. | 1,139]

3 minutes ago, Zach said:

Remember when that guy found Stadium Events at a yard sale and the pillars of the community all made fun of him for being excited because it wasn't rare enough to their standards?

 

 

That's not the way I remember it happening, but that video was pretty clever. 

I will let you in on a secret though. I actually agree with you about the particular old staff member, I didn't like the way he conducted himself either. However we were told by the boss in no uncertain terms that we had to keep him around because he wanted a "bad guy". 

[ExplodedHamster | 404]

6 minutes ago, DefaultGen said:

Oh boy. Not looking to insert myself into internet drama, but I'm the blacked out name on Discord. I sure didn't ask Karl to black me out like a mystery informant. Karl asked on Twitter one night if anyone knew anything about game collecting could join his Discord to talk about recent sales. Karl makes good videos, so I helped him understand a bit because he was literally at square zero (not recognizing for example that two games can be apart by $100k because on is players choice). He was hung up on Jeff and Dain being on the Wata SEC filing, which IIRC definitely came up on NintendoAge, but I obviously don't know the inner workings of Wata so I offered to try to put him in touch with Deniz, who ultimately decided not to reach out. Karl didn't attempt further himself, although I hope there's a follow up video if some of the players are willing to be interviewed. I wasn't involved in any part of part of the video's content besides some talking with Karl about understanding some crazy sales on Heritage.

Whatever you say, Deepthroat .

[osg | 52]

1 hour ago, Gloves said:

shit on NA

So. I think this counts as related, I changed my avatar on NA to the monopoly man because of the odd comments I would see of people valuing high-end stuff for prices they had never actually sold for, with the source being, "well it could sell for that" because irreverent humor is kind of my schtick.

Seems tangentially related, at minimum.

 

Also semi-related I came back just to read this thread.

[B.A. | 1,139]

4 minutes ago, Zach said:

It must really drive you nuts that you and your buddies can't control the narrative anymore 

Which buddies and which narrative? I must be nuts because I can't keep track of all the conspiracies you think I'm involved in. I'm not rich though, so I'm clearly not very good at it. 

[ThePhleo | 2,185]

Just now, B.A. said:

Which buddies and which narrative? I must be nuts because I can't keep track of all the conspiracies you think I'm involved in. I'm not rich though, so I'm clearly not very good at it. 

We know you've got a stack of sealed Bubble Bath Babes, and a Golden Girls prototype B.A...or would you have us forget your FORMER avatar.

 

[Brickman | 3,989]

23 minutes ago, Gulag Joe said:

The only factual information he provided is how everyone knew each other because they all work together and were friends prior to and during the Wata endeavor. But somehow, many of you translate that as being irrefutable evidence that they are all colluding and working together to bid up auctions on every video game auction in galaxy.

Man we're not trying to crack the Da Vinci Code here. If you can't see how the stuff presented in the video is ethically wrong and is backed up by government evidence of filings and a whistleblower then I really don't know what else to tell you. You're a lost cause at this point.

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

23 hours ago, vb337 said:

Wouldn't the Collector's Universe group have done their due diligence before acquiring WATA, PSA, and/or Goldin? These folks are far smarter and more well-versed in the business world than you or me.

In a world where "alternative asset" prices have skyrocketed across the board, is it really that surprising that a culturally relevant category like video games followed suit?

Why would Heritage risk their reputation doing shady shit when video games make up a TINY percentage of their overall sales?

Why didn't the Youtuber ask either Heritage or WATA for comment? That's investigative journalism 101.

If the trio bid $100,000 for the game, doesn't that mean there was another bidder willing to pay one bidding increment below that? Same question for the 1.5 million M64 sale.

Do gamers understand the difference between marketing and market manipulation? What are these people supposed to say? "Hi I'm Deniz and I think graded games are a terrible investment. That Mario belongs in the trash"

 

Just for you, boo! 

1.  Probably, but they also probably knew what was going on and did the purchase as their way in.  Due diligence in such a circumstance would primarily be geared toward "how likely are we to get caught" versus "are these two parties artificially pumping the hell out of a market we want to continue to do that with, and is that wrong?"

2.  As quickly as it did?  Yes, absolutely.  Will things get more expensive with people stuck indoors and bored?  Sure.  Will they go from $30K to $2M in a couple of months with only a couple of sales?  Not f'n likely.

3.  Because their co-chairman has done exactly that before, to great profit?  Because he apparently does the exact same thing with his comics on the regular, to raise the market so that his company will make more when more books finally come through?  Because $$$, that's why?

4.  He apparently did, he just didn't include that info in his video, nor make a big deal about it until other folks did, at which point he showed where he had, but protected his source on the revealed screenshot.  Then that source revealed himself.

5.  Not necessarily.  Remember the rumors, and documented court case (which they conveniently, and quietly settled out of court for an undisclosed sum) regarding shill bidding?  That's how that works.  You have some people legitimately bidding, then one guy you're controlling to get the price to where you want it before backing out.  At the top, they bought it themselves.  If someone else had been willing to go OVER $100K, I'm sure they'd have likely let that person legitimately win, but the newly pumping up market wouldn't bear that at the moment.

6.  Marketing is, "you should get these, they're really great!"  Manipulation is controlling the grading and valuation of said things, spurring off a purchase or two on your own dime to "show" that "the market" would bear those prices, then letting all the don't-give-two-shits-about-video-games investors climb all overthemselves to ride the bubble.  Hell, the dentist in the video touted as the biggest video game collector (despite admitting ON CAMERA in the same video that a few months ago he didn't even know about video games at all) says right up front that he wants to get in and ride THE BUBBLE.  You know, the one that's being pumped up artificially, and will burst all over the place eventually.

The facts in that video are laid out bare, and simply enough that any layman can pick up the facts and follow them to their ultimate conclusion--something isn't quite right about what's going on with those two businesses.

Hope I didn't ruin the rest of your life not responding to your questions as timely as you wanted!  Seeing as before this, you had one other post two weeks ago and then absolutely nothing posted on the site since March of this year, so I'm gonna guess that you're fluffing up how broken up you are about how such a peasant as myself deigned to breeze past such world shattering inquiries in the heat of it all.  In any case, have a good one! 

[John198X | 55]

With outside confirmation of attempted contact (that was in no way owed in the first place), are there any further defenses other than “the people that created this ‘market’ through unethical means brazenly and publicly totally didn’t do other unethical things that a YouTube video supposes they may possibly have also done.”

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

9 minutes ago, osg said:

So. I think this counts as related, I changed my avatar on NA to the monopoly man because of the odd comments I would see of people valuing high-end stuff for prices they had never actually sold for, with the source being, "well it could sell for that" because irreverent humor is kind of my schtick.

Seems tangentially related, at minimum.

 

Also semi-related I came back just to read this thread.

Oh, you mean like all of the undocumented "private" sales where all the NWC carts got pumped and pumped and pumped (and it seemed like some people would decide whether you were worthy of buying one or not), but nobody could or would ever disclose what anybody paid, despite it being "lots and lots?"  I 'member...