Heritage Auctions Thread

[Zach | 186]

9 minutes ago, Shmup said:

Agreed, we're just going around in circles now. They know they're backed into a corner and even if they know they're wrong they'll just keep misdirecting and brining up weird non facts. Hopefully one day they'll take off their WATA/HA goggles and actually see what is right in front of them.

All these old NA guys coming here and defending WATA and Deniz are doing it because they have a vested interest in the scam continuing. They've been doing it since before WATA even existed. Deniz could go on national television and say "you know what guys, he was right, this was all a big scam" and these people would STILL defend him. Think about it, these are people whose entire lives are defined by their video game collections. 

 

[John198X | 55]

6 minutes ago, Alder said:

I'm still sour about it all. I really enjoyed contributing scans and other info to the database. I don't have the money to be an archivist but I want to help preserve what I can. And now it's just gone.

What went down makes it especially disheartening to see sycophants and advocates for this cabal of scumbags.

[Zach | 186]

1 minute ago, Gloves said:

Video games were what, like $2-5 a pop at the time? It's not unheard of for a 15 year old to have a paper route or whatever. It's conceivable that on a part time job you could go to Yard sales in the 2000s and buy games regularly at what we'd today consider to be incredible steals.

I've been collecting games before he was even born and no that was absolutely not possible to acquire a collection like that via "hitting the garage sales". He has complete CIB sets of every Nintendo system, every store kiosk, gold NWC, every store display, you name it he has it. Theres no way some kid in the mid 2000s got all that from yard sales. 

[Gloves | 11,776]

1 minute ago, Zach said:

I've been collecting games before he was even born and no that was absolutely not possible to acquire a collection like that via "hitting the garage sales". He has complete CIB sets of every Nintendo system, every store kiosk, gold NWC, every store display, you name it he has it. Theres no way some kid in the mid 2000s got all that from yard sales. 

Ok sure, fine, let's assume you're right.

So?

What do you think the 17 year old was doing? His parents were buying him stuff?

So what? I'd have killed to have had nice parents like that, supporting my hobby. What's so wrong with that? Just seems like a weird thing to attack, considering, you know... all the rest of the stuff.

[BriGuy82 | 765]

18 minutes ago, John198X said:

This one is fun...

 

Yeah, that thread was a matter class in bullshit artistry by the wata advisory board that wanted so desperately to control the narrative. RIP bullshit thread. 

[Zach | 186]

5 minutes ago, Gloves said:

Ok sure, fine, let's assume you're right.

So?

What do you think the 17 year old was doing? His parents were buying him stuff?

So what? I'd have killed to have had nice parents like that, supporting my hobby. What's so wrong with that? Just seems like a weird thing to attack, considering, you know... all the rest of the stuff.

I didn't attack anything. I simply said it was weird for a 17 year old to have a collection like that then claim he found it all in the wild by himself. 

Clearly he didn't. 

I don't know what he was doing, hence my question. It's just another mysterious thing to add to the pile of fishy things going on 

Edited August 25, 2021 by Zach

[Gloves | 11,776]

2 minutes ago, Zach said:

I didn't attack anything. I simply said it was weird for a 17 year old to have a collection like that then claim he found it all in the wild by himself. 

Clearly he didn't. 

I don't know what he was doing, hence my question

Attack was the wrong word, just typing in between doing work. Harping on, I guess would be better.

Like yeah he probably didn't. But like, THAT line of questioning sounds like the jealous type. Of all the questions I've seen in the thread that one seems the most pointless I think. How he got his collection is really beside the point, considering he had at least the bulk of it prior to Wata being a thing. Just doesn't really seem relevant to the conversation at hand.

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

One thing that's stuck in my craw that I'm going to allow to rattle out, independent of any particular user or post within this thread.

To me, the number of people cropping up to state directly or indirectly that there's an issue with an expectation of ethics from people (self) assigning quality, value, and (indirectly, at their convenience) rarity to goods set up to be purchased is extremely disturbing.  To me, that speaks of a lack of ethics on their part, because without ethics on the part of the graders and auction houses, who knows what shenanigans folks could get up to?  (We now have a good idea, thanks to the infamous video that kickstarted a sudden, massive influx of discussion here.)

With that in mind, I think folks should take a few moments and reflect on that idea and consider again (I would have used "reconsider," but that carries certain implications that I'm not deliberately making here) who you do business with, on here, on the internet abroad, etc., as well as how "good a guy/gal" someone is who would throw shade at an expectation of solid ethics (preferably of the highest order) not solely, but especially when dealing with financial transactions of any sort.  "They knew what they were getting into," "the information was there," etc., are just excuses for being ok with a lack of ethics, and being more than able/willing to take advantage of such.  Almost guaranteed, the folks with no true code of ethics aren't going to be the ones holding the bag when this whole thing collapses, and almost guaranteed again, they'll be the ones with no real sympathy for anyone who did get caught up in the nonsense and all the "I told you so's."

[Zach | 186]

LOL 

They might as well have just said "yeah we're guilty" 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

9 minutes ago, Gloves said:

Ok sure, fine, let's assume you're right.

So?

What do you think the 17 year old was doing? His parents were buying him stuff?

So what? I'd have killed to have had nice parents like that, supporting my hobby. What's so wrong with that? Just seems like a weird thing to attack, considering, you know... all the rest of the stuff.

I think the inference there is the difference between what someone is claiming, ie: having done all the hard work to put something impressive together, versus what is implied to have really happened, ie: someone bought it all for them, probably in a few lump sums.

You can't deny that the community absolutely looks down differently on people who have legitimately spent their time at yard sales, flea markets, etc., to put together a massive collection versus somebody who clicked a link on eBay and hit "ok" for the PayPal transaction.  The end results are the same, perhaps even the love of the games is the same, but the journey and what it entailed is absolutely different, as is the amount of respect for that journey conveyed.

With that in mind, and mind you I don't know the guy and have no real thoughts about him one way or the other beyond the facts presented in the video that sparked off this hullaballoo, I can see folks being less than gracious at someone who is younger, and arguably less experienced in the hobby than they are, who (possibly/allegedly) had their entire collection handed to them, publicly proclaiming themselves again and again as the expert above the hobby that these folks have loved (in one case, for longer than said "expert" has been alive).

I don't share the bristling that we're potentially seeing here, but I absolutely understand how it could be there.

[BriGuy82 | 765]

23 minutes ago, Zach said:

All these old NA guys coming here and defending WATA and Deniz are doing it because they have a vested interest in the scam continuing. They've been doing it since before WATA even existed. Deniz could go on national television and say "you know what guys, he was right, this was all a big scam" and these people would STILL defend him. 

 

This is nothing, you should've seen what this argument was like on NA! There was zero objectivity because all these guys were in the background trying to start wata! It was like pissing in the wind. 

[Zach | 186]

1 minute ago, darkchylde28 said:

I think the inference there is the difference between what someone is claiming, ie: having done all the hard work to put something impressive together, versus what is implied to have really happened, ie: someone bought it all for them, probably in a few lump sums.

You can't deny that the community absolutely looks down differently on people who have legitimately spent their time at yard sales, flea markets, etc., to put together a massive collection versus somebody who clicked a link on eBay and hit "ok" for the PayPal transaction.  The end results are the same, perhaps even the love of the games is the same, but the journey and what it entailed is absolutely different, as is the amount of respect for that journey conveyed.

With that in mind, and mind you I don't know the guy and have no real thoughts about him one way or the other beyond the facts presented in the video that sparked off this hullaballoo, I can see folks being less than gracious at someone who is younger, and arguably less experienced in the hobby than they are, who (possibly/allegedly) had their entire collection handed to them, publicly proclaiming themselves again and again as the expert above the hobby that these folks have loved (in one case, for longer than said "expert" has been alive).

I don't share the bristling that we're potentially seeing here, but I absolutely understand how it could be there.

The insta-collectors are the one who always "get bored" and sell everything off 2 years later. These people tend to jack up prices for the rest of us because they reinforce higher prices by clicking every buy it now they can find. I don't really care either way, but someone else brought it up and I had the same thought about how does a 17 year old get a complete CIB NES set

[AdamW | 713]

10 minutes ago, darkchylde28 said:

One thing that's stuck in my craw that I'm going to allow to rattle out, independent of any particular user or post within this thread.

To me, the number of people cropping up to state directly or indirectly that there's an issue with an expectation of ethics from people (self) assigning quality, value, and (indirectly, at their convenience) rarity to goods set up to be purchased is extremely disturbing.  To me, that speaks of a lack of ethics on their part, because without ethics on the part of the graders and auction houses, who knows what shenanigans folks could get up to?  (We now have a good idea, thanks to the infamous video that kickstarted a sudden, massive influx of discussion here.)

With that in mind, I think folks should take a few moments and reflect on that idea and consider again (I would have used "reconsider," but that carries certain implications that I'm not deliberately making here) who you do business with, on here, on the internet abroad, etc., as well as how "good a guy/gal" someone is who would throw shade at an expectation of solid ethics (preferably of the highest order) not solely, but especially when dealing with financial transactions of any sort.  "They knew what they were getting into," "the information was there," etc., are just excuses for being ok with a lack of ethics, and being more than able/willing to take advantage of such.  Almost guaranteed, the folks with no true code of ethics aren't going to be the ones holding the bag when this whole thing collapses, and almost guaranteed again, they'll be the ones with no real sympathy for anyone who did get caught up in the nonsense and all the "I told you so's."

Let's be real here. The people holding the bag when at least some prices correct will be people who got in recently (or didn't get in yet) with the express intention of trying to get rich. I'll have about as much sympathy for them as I do for people who got burned buying crypto or GME, which is, "not much". I guess maybe why I'm so kinda meh on this whole controversy. Have HA and WATA been acting entirely as neutral brokers, detached from the market? Heck, no. Is that the most ethical way to act? Probably not. But it hasn't exactly been a secret, or if it was, it was a really badly-kept one. I find it pretty hard to believe anyone's been dropping five+ figures on video games without knowing about it, and if they have, then they're spending huge amounts of money without doing the most basic research, which seems like kinda dumb, greedy behaviour.

So, in a way, I guess I agree with you. It's fine to look at some of the stuff Karl talked about and say "wow, that's kinda shady, I don't want to get involved with these people". (And I guess that's actually what I'm doing, since I sure don't buy anything from HA and I don't have anything graded). I just, I dunno, don't feel a grand sense of outrage that it's going on, when I find it hard to believe there are any truly innocent saps in a shark tank of a market like this. I don't think there's anyone out there spending five figures on a graded Pokemon spinoff because it's their favourite game from childhood and they absolutely must have a WATA-graded copy to put on their shelf, is there? So...meh.

Edited August 25, 2021 by AdamW

[Zach | 186]

Just now, BriGuy82 said:

This is nothing, you should've seen what this argument was like on NA! There was zero objectivity because all these guys were in the background trying to start wata! It was like pissing in the wind. 

I was there dude. Back when NA was the only place to get really detailed info so you were forced to be subjected to the gaslighting from these "pillars of the community". Remember the guy who always bought prototypes and unreleased games and held them hostage, then said he wanted to punch Pat Contri in the face? Yeah funny how he never got banned for that. At least now their little circlejerk has been exposed and they can't BS their way out of this 

[WarMech | 82]

So................. anyone keeping their eyes on any particular games in the October Auction? A sealed DW7 for PS1 popped into it since I last checked and I wanna see what happens with it.

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

1 minute ago, WarMech said:

So................. anyone keeping their eyes on any particular games in the October Auction? A sealed DW7 for PS1 popped into it since I last checked and I wanna see what happens with it.

I think the general consensus right now is "pumped and dumped," lol.

[WarMech | 82]

Just now, darkchylde28 said:

I think the general consensus right now is "pumped and dumped," lol.

I'm more trying to get the debates and arguments to slow down in here if I'm being honest. This is getting hard to keep up on!

[avatar! | 1,809]

I love how they say "Mr. Jobst did not contact us to give us the opportunity to correct him."
By "correct him" I assume that means either have their lawyers destroy edit the article, or perhaps have their pals Smith & Wesson "correct" Mr. Jobst...

That was some seriously good amateur journalism that will definitely get a TON of attention, and the shite people at WATA/HA know it! Hence them paying big bucks to a crisis firm

SIGH, this has really made my day! I love cosmic karma kicking it tot he bad guys in the arse ...just like in those old video games

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

13 minutes ago, Zach said:

LOL 

They might as well have just said "yeah we're guilty" 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So this is a lie, Karl has screenshots of trying to get ahold of Deniz. 
 

But the bigger issue is this: “it’s a shame we didn’t have the opportunity to correct him”. Ok. Maybe it is. You have that opportunity now. So do it! Or can’t you? Riiiight…… 

[Alder | 243]

1 minute ago, Zach said:

The insta-collectors are the one who always "get bored" and sell everything off 2 years later. 

That might be generally true, but I've seen it the other way as well. I had a friend in 2008 who dropped a few thousand bucks on ebay buying 100+ game lots and within a few months had a solid 80% of the set finished. I rolled my eyes at the time, thinking that the fun was in the journey, and he missed out on it. I still think that's true, but he still has those games to this day and if I had the money back then, I'd now regret not having done the same.

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

Just now, WarMech said:

I'm more trying to get the debates and arguments to slow down in here if I'm being honest. This is getting hard to keep up on!

Oh, I understand.  I had like 10 pages of stuff to get through this afternoon to make it to the light at the other end...since yesterday afternoon!  Hopefully calling out the strident defenders of WATA/HA / opponents of the video to provide facts and figures to back up their stances will call a halt to the bulk of the aggressive discussions going on.  Because, really, exactly nobody has been able to show how the guy making the video didn't dot his i's and cross his t's in regard to facts and figures.  There's been shade thrown at the guy, but why he did what he did is immaterial to the rock solid result, which cannot currently be factually disputed.  Heck, even WATA went screaming off to get a PR firm to fight for them versus quoting chapter and verse on facts and figures.  To me, that's awfully telling.

[Rhapsody98 | 1,535]

27 minutes ago, Gloves said:

Ok sure, fine, let's assume you're right.

So?

What do you think the 17 year old was doing? His parents were buying him stuff?

So what? I'd have killed to have had nice parents like that, supporting my hobby. What's so wrong with that? Just seems like a weird thing to attack, considering, you know... all the rest of the stuff.

It speaks to his dishonesty.  If he can’t admit “Oh, I had some help from my parents.”  Something as simple to admit to as getting lots of great gifts from supportive parents, but he won’t admit it.  It speaks to what else he’s hiding.  

It reminds me of those people who want to tell people in poverty to just “pull yourself up by your bootstraps!”  When all along their parents bought them a house and paid for their college.   “You, too can find Stadium Events if you just get to the flea market early enough!”  When we all know thats BS.

[ICrappedMyPants | 302]

9 minutes ago, Gloves said:

Attack was the wrong word, just typing in between doing work. Harping on, I guess would be better.

Like yeah he probably didn't. But like, THAT line of questioning sounds like the jealous type. Of all the questions I've seen in the thread that one seems the most pointless I think. How he got his collection is really beside the point, considering he had at least the bulk of it prior to Wata being a thing. Just doesn't really seem relevant to the conversation at hand.

I’m not really interested in how he got his collection or claimed to have gotten it. I lurked at NintendoAge for years finding random info on questions I would have so I don’t know him. I can easily see your criticism of the line of thinking and it coming off as bitterness.

However, it could be relevant from the standpoint that if one has a track record of being dishonest, then you should be cautious trusting them in the future. I’m not claiming this is the case, nor do I really care to find out. I’m just saying that I can understand being skeptical about someone IF they have been dishonest in the past.

[WarMech | 82]

1 minute ago, darkchylde28 said:

Heck, even WATA went screaming off to get a PR firm to fight for them versus quoting chapter and verse on facts and figures.

That's what's bugging me most about this too. You don't need a PR firm to be transparent. Puts a new perspective and look towards what I want to do with some of my own collection going forward, and I was already indecisive on that to begin with. 

[WalterWhiteJr. | 1,162]