General Current Events/Political Discussion

[Link | 2,712]

40 minutes ago, MrWunderful said:

 

lol wtf is this? Is there a skinny solidarity thread somewhere?

 

[Reed Rothchild | 9,533]

@Tabonga Yep, we already discussed that.  But it was unclear how truly "nooselike" it was.

I don't know anything about NASCAR and random garages, but it would seem pretty coincidental to me that the token black driver got the garage.  Any experts can chime in and correct me.

[Tabonga | 2,318]

 

25 minutes ago, Reed Rothchild said:

@Tabonga Yep, we already discussed that.  But it was unclear how truly "nooselike" it was.

I don't know anything about NASCAR and random garages, but it would seem pretty coincidental to me.

Sorry - didn't read back through everything (nor did I particularly want to!).  From what I read NASCAR assigns garages on a point system generated from the current standing of the drivers, (I don't give a rat's you know what about racing so I am willing to believe this.) That long ago no one would have known who would get that garage today.

People that are mechanically inclined often have odd interests and ways of amusing themselves,  A good friend of mine in college was a theater techie and could whip up just about any knot instaneously - including nooses (which came in fairly handy for props on stage more often than you might think). One night (very late) I dropped by his room and he had indulged in some esoteric chemicals (i.e.he was orbiting Pluto or thereabouts) - he had taken a ball of string and attached everything in his room (lights, wall phone) so he could turn it on or off - in the case of the wall phone he could lift it off the cradle, bring it to his bed and then return it.   The mind can be a terrible thing.......

Edited June 27, 2020 by Tabonga

[Estil | 1,265]

1 hour ago, MrWunderful said:

Ive been to Oakland often. Its not really that bad. I mean it is kind of “inter city”. 

Anyone who vandalizes anything should be held to whatever the law is. When people vote things out legally, its much more powerful. 

Indeed, the mainstream Muslims/Islam as well as the mainstream right-to-life movement have no trouble at all with consistently and clearly denouncing the radical violent extremists who claim their label in doing so.  It is absolutely not too much to ask for BLM to do the same if they wish to be successful in the long run.  Honestly I could in fact agree with some of their general points/reforms but they really gotta call out and denounce the violent extremists.

[cartman | 195]

9 minutes ago, Reed Rothchild said:

@Tabonga Yep, we already discussed that.  But it was unclear how truly "nooselike" it was.

I don't know anything about NASCAR and random garages, but it would seem pretty coincidental to me that the token black driver got the garage.  Any experts can chime in and correct me.

I see now that the noose had apparently been there since 2019 and that it was not obvious that Bubba would have that garage. I was thinking that a noose could still be a general act of voicing dislike for him by hanging it in a NASCAR garage due to his stances around BLM and the Confederate flag but again, the noose was there from 2019 so way earlier than his stances.

It would seem very unlikely that a noose should appear at a black mans garage in the face of his recent statements + being the only garage of thousands controlled that had a noose without there being anything malicious behind it but that does seem to be what has happened. A freak coincidence. Either that or his team planting it there on purpose but again that doesn't solve that it dates back to 2019.

How the hell they could figured when a rope was placed at all i have no idea but i guess there is some forensic shit explaining it all.

[Estil | 1,265]

5 minutes ago, Tabonga said:

Sorry - didn't read back through everything (nor did I particularly want to!).  From what I read NASCAR assigns garages on a point system generated from the current standing of the drivers, (I don't give a rat's you know what about racing so I am willing to believe this.) That long ago no one would have known who would get that garage today.

People that are mechanically inclined often have odd interests and ways of amusing themselves,  A good friend of mine in college was a theater techie and could whip up just about any knot instaneously - including nooses (which came in fairly handy for props on stage more often than you might think). One night (very late) I dropped by his room and he had indulged in some esoteric chemicals (i.e.he was orbiting Pluto or thereabouts) - he had taken a ball of string and attached everything in his room (lights, wall phone) so he could turn it on or off - in the case of the wall phone he could lift it off the cradle, bring it to his bed and then return it.   The mind can be a terrible thing.......

Incidentally back in the 90s we used to live right next door to a local racetrack where a few NASCAR greats got their start...and one YT video even has our trailer (yes we lived in a trailer; deal with it  ) in the background!!  I'm half tempted to post the video so you can see it but I'm a bit paranoid/old fashioned about privacy concerns.

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

2 hours ago, Estil said:

Indeed, the mainstream Muslims/Islam as well as the mainstream right-to-life movement have no trouble at all with consistently and clearly denouncing the radical violent extremists who claim their label in doing so.  It is absolutely not too much to ask for BLM to do the same if they wish to be successful in the long run.  Honestly I could in fact agree with some of their general points/reforms but they really gotta call out and denounce the violent extremists.

Denouncing it is the same as any other pandering. Is it really worth anything? Not to me. 
 

Most reasonable people know that vandalism and destroying property is bad. Would a tweet be enough?

 

”We dont approve of people breaking things”

-BLM

[OptOut | 8,884]

I wonder if there are any OTHER white guys on this board who happen to live in Taiwan and could perhaps comment on white privilege in the country?

Alas, what are the chances of that? 

[Gloves | 11,779]

Just now, OptOut said:

I wonder if there are any OTHER white guys on this board who happen to live in Taiwan and could perhaps comment on white privilege in the country?

Alas, what are the chances of that? 

Do you happen to know any? Bonus points if they happen to be chummy with the only other white guy living in Taiwan. >_>

[OptOut | 8,884]

2 minutes ago, Gloves said:

Do you happen to know any? Bonus points if they happen to be chummy with the only other white guy living in Taiwan. >_>

Hey, I am certainly chums with Dave, but he'll tell you himself our political beliefs aren't particularly well aligned.

I'm not really a political guy tho, and it doesn't seem to affect our friendship any.

[OptOut | 8,884]

Anyway, I guess I should share my thoughts on the whole Taiwan situation.

First thing I will say is that basically all the examples @fcgamer gave about discrimination against white people in Taiwan is true. However, it's not the whole story.

White people do suffer discrimination on the basis of their race/nationality, and as @fcgamer described this is both at the level of individuals AND in terms of the systems and structures of the society (national and local governments, banks etc.). Because the discrimination IS structural, I believe this fits the technical definition of racism.

However, on the flipside, we also benefit from white privilege, in numerous ways. First and foremost, all the issues Dave discussed apply WAY worse to immigrants from East Asian countries, such as Indonesia, Philippines, Vietnam etc. And whereas a white guy can basically walk into a cram school and get a job overnight, Black people can't get a job anywhere near as easily.

So yeah Taiwanese are racist against white people, but they are WAY more racist against basically everyone else.

 

And being white actually has loads of benefits too, most important being the ease of getting a well paid job (even if there is ZERO career progression). We are treated as different, but often in a good way. People like to see us around and kids think we're super cool. Old people treat us a bit like children, which has its advantages because we can get away with shit that others would be chastised for. Even with police, for example, I've just been waived on through after traffic violations, because maybe they're too shy to speak English or something.

Also, in my own personal case, I don't suffer any where near as much as Dave with a lot of the beuracratic discrimination because I am married to a Taiwanese and I have way more support in such matters from my family. I can see how Dave living on his own would face WAY more difficulties due to his race than I do, I'm very sheltered from that by comparison.

 

So there you have it. Racism against white people IS a thing. But it can also be POSITIVE in some ways as well as negative. Which I believe is white privilege, although I'm not 100% on the technical definition of that term.

[OptOut | 8,884]

Satisfied @Gloves, or too chummy for ya?!

[fcgamer | 4,723]

21 hours ago, Link said:

 

If I was in South Africa? I would probably call them mixed race, until I was corrected by someone who knows the situation and then I would use the proper term. If I’m in America, I think I would stick to my local terminology, unless I was speaking extensively about South Africa, but I don’t presently have any reason to do that.

If you were to refer to black people in America as “coloured” because that is the right word for your friend in SA, it’s antiquated in America and you would do well to receive and accept an explanation that it’s bad form.

Well I presume you have not examined the links I posted earlier, or the other possibility is that you looked at them but refuse to accept it, as it goes against what you and others are posting here.

Coloured is the correct word for said people in South Africa, it's not just a one-off or something like that, and by looking into the history further, one can easily see why calling that group "black" (as someone here suggested) would be wrong and offensive.

I think we should move away from such an America-centric viewpoint and look with a broader viewpoint. 

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

1 minute ago, fcgamer said:

I think we should move away from such an America-centric viewpoint and look with a broader viewpoint. 

We were discussing the systemic racism in the United States police and legal systems. So it makes sense the conversation was US-centric. Since we were discussing the United States and all... I'm not really sure what the correct term to use on South Africans has to do with systemic racism inside the United States.

I'm happy to have a broader discussion on racism on the world's stage. 

 

[fcgamer | 4,723]

21 hours ago, Link said:

I’m sorry to hear you have experienced unfairness. MrWunderful already said the issues you face pale (heh) in comparison to what black people here do and based on what you’ve described I agree. But since you keep bringing it up I googled ‘white people in Taiwan’ and... I can’t say as I pity white people in Taiwan too much. 

Yeah, well are you for equality or aren't you? If you dismiss some the racial hardships some people are going through as nothing at all, all the while trying to present a convincing case about another group's hardships, it looks to me as though you are just picking and choosing. It's hard to take someone seriously who is not sincere in their efforts. Do you care about equality for everyone, and are against racism, or not? 

[fcgamer | 4,723]

1 minute ago, CodysGameRoom said:

 

I'm happy to have a broader discussion on racism on the world's stage. 

 

Okay well let's do that then, we have members here from all over the world.

[fcgamer | 4,723]

11 hours ago, OptOut said:

Anyway, I guess I should share my thoughts on the whole Taiwan situation.

First thing I will say is that basically all the examples @fcgamer gave about discrimination against white people in Taiwan is true. However, it's not the whole story.

White people do suffer discrimination on the basis of their race/nationality, and as @fcgamer described this is both at the level of individuals AND in terms of the systems and structures of the society (national and local governments, banks etc.). Because the discrimination IS structural, I believe this fits the technical definition of racism.

However, on the flipside, we also benefit from white privilege, in numerous ways. First and foremost, all the issues Dave discussed apply WAY worse to immigrants from East Asian countries, such as Indonesia, Philippines, Vietnam etc. And whereas a white guy can basically walk into a cram school and get a job overnight, Black people can't get a job anywhere near as easily.

So yeah Taiwanese are racist against white people, but they are WAY more racist against basically everyone else.

 

And being white actually has loads of benefits too, most important being the ease of getting a well paid job (even if there is ZERO career progression). We are treated as different, but often in a good way. People like to see us around and kids think we're super cool. Old people treat us a bit like children, which has its advantages because we can get away with shit that others would be chastised for. Even with police, for example, I've just been waived on through after traffic violations, because maybe they're too shy to speak English or something.

Also, in my own personal case, I don't suffer any where near as much as Dave with a lot of the beuracratic discrimination because I am married to a Taiwanese and I have way more support in such matters from my family. I can see how Dave living on his own would face WAY more difficulties due to his race than I do, I'm very sheltered from that by comparison.

 

So there you have it. Racism against white people IS a thing. But it can also be POSITIVE in some ways as well as negative. Which I believe is white privilege, although I'm not 100% on the technical definition of that term.

You've just had that cushy university job until opening your own business, you haven't seen or experienced the dark underbelly at all. Up until last year none of the foreign colleagues where I work got paid holidays or raises, every local gets 7 days starting, with additional days and raises every year. We threatened to all quit if this didn't change, so it gained us all one lousy paid day off a year, per year we worked at the school. And it's not just where I'm at now, it's every school. Can't even take a day off sick without being penalized.

Similarly, to set the record straight, I used to work with a coloured guy, my South African friend, and also worked with a Sri Lankan woman and a man from Ghana. We were all paid the same wages.

Yes, I agree that it's harder for darker skinned teachers to find a job here. This stems from the fact that most *parents* want to see blond hair, blue eyes, and therefore all managers bend over backwards to meet the desires of the parents, ie the customers. So yeah, I do have an advantage in that area, but after that, pay is the same, etc. On another note, there's also preference and discrimination based on age, being overweight, etc, to make one very complex picture.

To be 100% honest though, I'd personally rather be able to buy a house, than to get out of an occasional speeding ticket. Though I had a black colleague up north , he'd also get out of things due to "not speaking Chinese". So it's not even a race thing, rather just a language thing. Like I said before though, I'd love to buy a house here, but the systematic racism is preventing that...what to do, walk into the bank with a few briefcases of bills?  Maybe that's just me though. Like I said, I'd personally rather be able to buy a house, than to get out of an occasional speeding ticket.

Edit: Quoted from a friend of mine:

Tomorrow is the Dragon boat festival, it’s the first major festival after the covid crisis . We don’t have a lockdown and we have a 4 day holiday but people can’t go abroad . It’s so festive here, the market is full of people early morning,the freeway is full of cars , and we’ve been eating and giving each other zhong zi, it’s glutinous rice with meat , nuts and other ingredients wrapped in bamboo leaves and steamed
Plus , Employees get a bonus from employers"

Well, I know some locals who all got bonuses from their bosses, same with during Chinese New Year's . And I know all foreign staff did not.

Edited June 27, 2020 by fcgamer

[Gloves | 11,779]

3 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

You've just had that cushy university job until opening your own business, you haven't seen or experienced the dark underbelly at all. Up until last year none of the foreign colleagues where I work got paid holidays or raises, every local gets 7 days starting, with additional days and raises every year. We threatened to all quit if this didn't change, so it gained us all one lousy paid day off a year, per year we worked at the school. And it's not just where I'm at now, it's every school. Can't even take a day off sick without being penalized.

Similarly, to set the record straight, I used to work with a coloured guy, my South African friend, and also worked with a Sri Lankan woman and a man from Ghana. We were all paid the same wages.

Yes, I agree that it's harder for darker skinned teachers to find a job here. This stems from the fact that most *parents* want to see blond hair, blue eyes, and therefore all managers bend over backwards to meet the desires of the parents, ie the customers. So yeah, I do have an advantage in that area, but after that, pay is the same, etc. On another note, there's also preference and discrimination based on age, being overweight, etc, to make one very complex picture.

To be 100% honest though, I'd personally rather be able to buy a house, than to get out of an occasional speeding ticket. Though I had a black colleague up north , he'd also get out of things due to "not speaking Chinese". So it's not even a race thing, rather just a language thing. Like I said before though, I'd love to buy a house here, but the systematic racism is preventing that...what to do, walk into the bank with a few briefcases of bills?  Maybe that's just me though. Like I said, I'd personally rather be able to buy a house, than to get out of an occasional speeding ticket.

Serious question: What made you move to Taiwan in the first place?

[fcgamer | 4,723]

2 minutes ago, Gloves said:

Serious question: What made you move to Taiwan in the first place?

Taiwanese colleague and jobs within my field of study. Why do you ask?

As I mentioned earlier, a lot of the racism experienced isn't really of concern to someone that's coming over here for a year or two on a gap year. But if you live here for a long time, want to settle down, learn the language, etc it becomes apparent. I'd reckon the same situation holds true in Japan and Korea, though iirc in Korea blacks are treated better than whites  

[Gloves | 11,779]

Just now, fcgamer said:

Taiwanese colleague and jobs within my field of study. Why do you ask?

As I mentioned earlier, a lot of the racism experienced isn't really of concern to someone that's coming over here for a year or two on a gap year. But if you live here for a long time, want to settle down, learn the language, etc it becomes apparent. I'd reckon the same situation holds true in Japan and Korea, though iirc in Korea blacks are treated better than whites  

I ask just out of curiosity unrelated to the topic at hand, to be honest. Like personally when I think "where do I want to end up in life" Taiwan has never been a place I'd consider. Not saying you made the wrong call or anything, just legit curious what made you go "yeah, Taiwan is where I wanna be".

Do you ever regret it?

[fcgamer | 4,723]

8 minutes ago, Gloves said:

I ask just out of curiosity unrelated to the topic at hand, to be honest. Like personally when I think "where do I want to end up in life" Taiwan has never been a place I'd consider. Not saying you made the wrong call or anything, just legit curious what made you go "yeah, Taiwan is where I wanna be".

Do you ever regret it?

Not at all. I consider it my home now.

I know some people here probably think I'm trying to take the piss on the racism matter, but I'm genuinely not, I'm just trying to raise awareness that it happens everywhere, no matter what skin colour you are.

For some reason I didn't even think of this until now, but I have a good friend living in Norway, who is originally from Poland. He also experienced prejudice, white on white racism? at his workplace. It sounds odd to us, but it's true.

Sadly, people will always try to categorise others and point out their differences, I reckon it's usually to make them feel better about themselves. Skin, wealth, language, physique, mental capacity, physical capacity, etc.

Edit: Just want to throw thus out there as well: many of my Taiwanense friends ask me (in honest curiosity) why I continue to rent an apartment. They always offer up the advice that I should just buy a place, and then pay off the mortgage month by month, instead of paying rent to a slimy landlord. They literally don't understand that for foreigners, this isn't possible at all, unless married to a local, or walking in with a briefcase of cash like some gangster movie. I reckon this might be how I or other white people living in the USA see racism towards blacks, i.e. it's beyond our comprehension not because we are bad racist people, rather we just haven't seen it firsthand and therefore how can we understand it?

Edited June 27, 2020 by fcgamer

[Gloves | 11,779]

Just now, fcgamer said:

Not at all. I consider it my home now.

I know some people here probably think I'm trying to take the piss on the racism matter, but I'm genuinely not, I'm just trying to raise awareness that it happens everywhere, no matter what skin colour you are.

For some reason I didn't even think of this until now, but I have a good friend living in Norway, who is originally from Poland. He also experienced prejudice, white on white racism? at his workplace. It sounds odd to us, but it's true.

Sadly, people will always try to categorise others and point out their differences, I reckon it's usually to make them feel better about themselves. Skin, wealth, language, physique, mental capacity, physical capacity, etc.

 

The Norway/Poland thing makes some sense, in a similar fashion to Irish/Scottish. Whites can hate other whites easily enough, given an excuse.

[fcgamer | 4,723]

3 minutes ago, Gloves said:

The Norway/Poland thing makes some sense, in a similar fashion to Irish/Scottish. Whites can hate other whites easily enough, given an excuse.

Well since Polish people are central / "eastern" European, they of course are considered worth less than Nordic countries.

I mean, Slavic and Slave, shared etymology, need I say more?

[G-type | 2,482]

20 hours ago, Estil said:

Forget Hillary, these thugs/punks/whatever are the ones that really are well worth chanting "Lock them up, lock them up!" for!!!  Honestly any idiot who is this ungrateful for living in this great country that they feel the need to vandalize these statues/monuments as well as those who are burning/breaking stuff and hurting people for stupid political reasons/excuses, well, I think a few years in the clink as well as retribution and/or community service to help repair/clean the damage up is just what they deserve.

 

Incarceration in this country is already a huge problem.

People don't need to be grateful for being allowed to live where they were born. Grateful to who? You?

Confederate statues are an insult. I'm happy to see them torn down. 

[Bearcat-Doug | 5,105]

3 minutes ago, G-type said:

Incarceration in this country is already a huge problem.

People don't need to be grateful for being allowed to live where they were born. Grateful to who? You?

Confederate statues are an insult. I'm happy to see them torn down. 

That one is long overdue.