Analogue Update: Duo ($250; Ships 2023) and Pocket ($200; Ships 2023) Available for Preorder

[Tanooki | 4,933]

33 minutes ago, Californication said:

I want one of those Duo's bad. Like Indiana Jones four bad.

Means you must really like the thought of owning one and want it a lot.  Can't blame you, Duo is fantastic and how they'd do it takes it to another level.

 

Also keep in mind of about this week, that GTA trilogy news with the added tidbit it could be out even tomorrow or this month, next if not, supposedly.

Edited October 15, 2021 by Tanooki

[Californication | 1,477]

10 minutes ago, Tanooki said:

Means you must really like the thought of owning one and want it a lot.  Can't blame you, Duo is fantastic and how they'd do it takes it to another level.

 

Also keep in mind of about this week, that GTA trilogy news with the added tidbit it could be out even tomorrow or this month, next if not, supposedly.

You know, I saw the GTA stuff in passing, but haven't thought about it. Are people excited?

[DoctorEncore | 3,691]

Friendly reminder that this announcement comes tomorrow morning. I expect a preorder time/date to be announced, but you never can tell. Might be a good idea to set an alarm.

[TDIRunner | 2,735]

29 minutes ago, DoctorEncore said:

Friendly reminder that this announcement comes tomorrow morning. I expect a preorder time/date to be announced, but you never can tell. Might be a good idea to set an alarm.

Good advice.

Odds are tomorrow morning is simply an announcement of the next date of something big.  In other words, it's not likely that anything will be available to order tomorrow morning, but just in case, it doesn't hurt to be ready if you are interested in such things.  

[Tanooki | 4,933]

20 hours ago, Californication said:

You know, I saw the GTA stuff in passing, but haven't thought about it. Are people excited?

Seems so, a good base of NIntendo people or at least Switch owners seem to be pretty jacked about having some definitive hd quality version on a hybrid they can carry around with them(or dock) that you can just sleep, play, avoid the load times and stuff of the old disc versions.  I mean I could see it given how old they are now, story wise and areas they were unmatched and I can even see the appeal and I'm 100% beyond burned out on sandbox due to that companies push for it for so long and the road they took it down.  If these were done like C&C remastered was and a few others, gameplay/AI left alone, upgrade all the other assets with some light touch of quality of life checks and balances I think they'd do fantatic.  It will come down to pricing, if it's a jerky split physical/download abuse or not, etc.  It's up to them if it succeeds.

[Tanooki | 4,933]

WOW so we're not discussing this?  Analogue OS and it only works with legacy carts/new legacy style carts!  Seems they're very well implying the FPGA won't allow ROMs to be loaded, nor seemingly can you use bootleg carts and/or flash kits because they're not legacy carts.  This I think is going to be a bit of a sticking issue with people.

 

The OS seems nice, almost seems a bit like a ripoff of the one the Epilogue Operator uses, and perhaps this was their idea to add to the Pocket unit due to the chip shortage and delays it caused?  I think this is going to backfire.

[avatar! | 1,811]

22 minutes ago, Tanooki said:

WOW so we're not discussing this?  Analogue OS and it only works with legacy carts/new legacy style carts!  Seems they're very well implying the FPGA won't allow ROMs to be loaded, nor seemingly can you use bootleg carts and/or flash kits because they're not legacy carts.  This I think is going to be a bit of a sticking issue with people.

 

The OS seems nice, almost seems a bit like a ripoff of the one the Epilogue Operator uses, and perhaps this was their idea to add to the Pocket unit due to the chip shortage and delays it caused?  I think this is going to backfire.

I definitely would be worried if you can't use say EverDrive - can you? Also, when can you actually pre-order Pocket?

[TDIRunner | 2,735]

1 hour ago, Tanooki said:

WOW so we're not discussing this?  Analogue OS and it only works with legacy carts/new legacy style carts!  Seems they're very well implying the FPGA won't allow ROMs to be loaded, nor seemingly can you use bootleg carts and/or flash kits because they're not legacy carts.  This I think is going to be a bit of a sticking issue with people.

 

The OS seems nice, almost seems a bit like a ripoff of the one the Epilogue Operator uses, and perhaps this was their idea to add to the Pocket unit due to the chip shortage and delays it caused?  I think this is going to backfire.

I haven't had time to read the post outside of a quick glance.  But they have rarely, if ever, officially supported ROMs on anything they sell.  It's probably more legal wording than anything.  If ROMs and flash carts aren't supported at least unofficially, I would be surprised.  

 

Edit:  After reading through it, I see where they say it won't paly copyrighted ROM files.  Again, I will be surprised if this isn't just for legal purposes and getting around that will probably be pretty easy for those people who want to wish to do so.  

Edited October 16, 2021 by TDIRunner

[Tanooki | 4,933]

@avatar! Wish I knew still, at this rate, depending on what antics they institute using their new operating system.

@TDIRunner I read it, re-read it, then read the actual site for the OS and all the fine details to the bottom.  Unless it is just a cover your ass thing, it is far more clearly leaning towards acting like Hyperkin's Retron5 and later derivatives do, NO flash kits, no pirated copies. no self made bootlegs, no nothing but legit as they said copyrighted ROMs.

I would be surprised, if they hadn't wrote it as such as they never clearly before said their systems won't use unlicensed stuff or flash kits, they never even fuzzily inferred it either.  But now with them peddling some new multiple system OS platform for their FPGA cores, I think they are going to block anything but legit CRC checked games or something of the sort to filter out the illegal things.  For all we know they may have some deal brewing to peddle that OS onto some other hardware and need it to be entirely above board for contractual purposes to get financing and partners.

 

As much as I wanted the Pocket, now I'm not so certain.  If this OS is going into their future systems, which means the Duo likely will get it too as it was put off as well to some random future date, it's not good.  I could really see them do it on there due to the optical drive trying to block all those burned discs and everdrives or other converter things too if for any reason to appease Konami on that one.  What better way to build industry and developer side trust than to make an amazing OS with a lot of excellent features that also blocks bootlegs and flash kits.  It makes too much sense.

[DoctorEncore | 3,691]

Well that was underwhelming. They knew people were expecting a preorder and instead they drop a few tidbits about an OS. This could've been an email.

[TDIRunner | 2,735]

54 minutes ago, Tanooki said:

@TDIRunner I read it, re-read it, then read the actual site for the OS and all the fine details to the bottom.  Unless it is just a cover your ass thing, it is far more clearly leaning towards acting like Hyperkin's Retron5 and later derivatives do, NO flash kits, no pirated copies. no self made bootlegs, no nothing but legit as they said copyrighted ROMs.

 

Honestly, I don't know, so it's difficult to say for sure.  But if what you say it true, it's a huge departure from what they've done in the past, and that seems unlikely to me.  We will find out for sure in the future.  

[TDIRunner | 2,735]

42 minutes ago, DoctorEncore said:

Well that was underwhelming. They knew people were expecting a preorder and instead they drop a few tidbits about an OS. This could've been an email.

I was going to make a post with a list of the most likely topics for today's announcement, but I was too lazy to do it.  However, if I had done that, today's announcement wouldn't have made the top ten for me. 

I'm sure it goes without saying, we were all expecting an official pre-order date for the Duo.  

[Tanooki | 4,933]

14 minutes ago, TDIRunner said:

Honestly, I don't know, so it's difficult to say for sure.  But if what you say it true, it's a huge departure from what they've done in the past, and that seems unlikely to me.  We will find out for sure in the future.  

I know it is, and I hope I'm wrong, but it just reads like a standard corporate we are going in a new direction, a new ideal for the future style product release.  They seem highly focused on this adaptive OS of theirs which maybe they can peddle to others doing FGPA based systems.  The more they'd lean into that they'd have to stay on a more vanilla clean side of things not so scare off interested parties.  They don't have a real vested reason to allow for running ROMs, I mean officially supported(kind of I guess) they only went for it on their first, the NES $600 beast of a system they no longer sell.  Their other hardware since doesn't, you need someone to hack the firmware to JB it, while before kevtris if not them direct put cores for other consoles right in their own doorstep.  SO I really don't feel it's that big of a departure, but a more forward facing blocking of the sketch.

[DiamanteLoco | 3]

if this is the future of analogue (not allowing roms to be played on their new console releases) I'm really glad I didn't preorder a Pocket...and I'll be sure to check on Super NT updates to make sure they aren't pushing that kind of stuff out to it.

[Tanooki | 4,933]

@DiamanteLoco That's 100% my concern right now.  I want to know what they're really up to because at face value that IS what they're saying.  Future hardware will be 100% above board, no gray area, they want legit games only and that's that.  I kind of question why, but the only conclusion I can come up with would be larger wider plans.  Why care unless you're going to cater to basically third party developers who would get pissed at the warez possibilities.  Maybe they want to be some new engine for third party companies to peddle FPGA mini systems that uses their cute engine and gui?  No one would take them seriously or give them any slack if it was openly there to play bootlegs of any sort.

[DoctorEncore | 3,691]

I think it will be fine as long as they are focusing on retro hardware. Releasing emulators has never been illegal and they've never officially supported ROMs. I think the goal here is to standardize their future work to save time and money.

[a3quit4s | 4,097]

9 hours ago, DoctorEncore said:

I think it will be fine as long as they are focusing on retro hardware. Releasing emulators has never been illegal and they've never officially supported ROMs. I think the goal here is to standardize their future work to save time and money.

100% this. I think they are also attempting to follow the ecosystem model to get users into their products and make it hard for them to get out. I think I saw somewhere that Ana OS won’t be available for SG NT or Super NT so they may be lining up to have the OS for their next line of products. I’ll be the first to say that if the OS is going to be the selling feature of their next release products I’m happy to stick to what I’ve got. 

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

Maybe its because im a filthy casual, but I am ok with it just playing actual media. 

[Tanooki | 4,933]

12 hours ago, a3quit4s said:

...so they may be lining up to have the OS for their next line of products. I’ll be the first to say that if the OS is going to be the selling feature of their next release products I’m happy to stick to what I’ve got. 

While I do agree with MrWunderful there too, I don't like having my personal choice taken away either.  I have a handful of games that probably would detect as bootlegs despite them being unofficial releases, homebrew, or just fun stuff on an unofficial cart.  And yeah I have a few multis too, a few custom jobs, and my flash kits.  I should have my right to use them as clean or gray area as I wish.  It does seem to be a selling point, and if that is the case, I'm suddenly feeling very GOOD about not getting the pocket missing out on that, and getting out of NEC stuff so I don't need the Duo either.  They can take their control over my property and stuff it.

[a3quit4s | 4,097]

4 minutes ago, Tanooki said:

While I do agree with MrWunderful there too, I don't like having my personal choice taken away either.  I have a handful of games that probably would detect as bootlegs despite them being unofficial releases, homebrew, or just fun stuff on an unofficial cart.  And yeah I have a few multis too, a few custom jobs, and my flash kits.  I should have my right to use them as clean or gray area as I wish.  It does seem to be a selling point, and if that is the case, I'm suddenly feeling very GOOD about not getting the pocket missing out on that, and getting out of NEC stuff so I don't need the Duo either.  They can take their control over my property and stuff it.

I agree with Wunderful as well, I always just use the original media to play on my Analogue systems but I can totally understand why this would rub people the wrong way. I also agreed with DoctorEncore that Analogue never did and really can’t publicly support ROMs but they probably won’t stop people from creating jailbreak firmware. 

[Tanooki | 4,933]

I agree they're not obliged to do it, never were.  The rub here is specifically for the first time blatantly calling out saying only supporting legit games.  That means that whether you know you have a fake cart or not, know you have one, a multicart, flash kit, perhaps non-CRC checkable homebrew or personal pet project -- it looks like they'll block it.  That's the only issue here I see, otherwise the OS is fine.  And we don't know if this new OS will be open to jailbreak, they may go all hardcore on locking it down, but like Apple(iOS) it's not like it can't get cracked but they can make it a chore easily if they so choose to do that.

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

On 10/20/2021 at 9:45 AM, Tanooki said:

I agree they're not obliged to do it, never were.  The rub here is specifically for the first time blatantly calling out saying only supporting legit games.  That means that whether you know you have a fake cart or not, know you have one, a multicart, flash kit, perhaps non-CRC checkable homebrew or personal pet project -- it looks like they'll block it.  That's the only issue here I see, otherwise the OS is fine.  And we don't know if this new OS will be open to jailbreak, they may go all hardcore on locking it down, but like Apple(iOS) it's not like it can't get cracked but they can make it a chore easily if they so choose to do that.

Guess that also means you can't use their hardware to play/test prototypes, preview/demo copies handed out to press, or any other release that they don't happen to have a catalogued CRC for.  I imagine that would probably shut out folks who happen to own legitimate but rare(r) software versions of some games, where a bugfix or other update replaced that run's copies wholesale.

Hopefully it's just saber rattling on their part, and not some sort of actual software snooping, lockout policy that they've intentionally included in their new OS.

I love cycling through my physical copies of stuff, but past a certain point, throwing in your flash or multi cart and just picking what you want to play from a menu on real hardware is where it's at.

[DoctorEncore | 3,691]

I really wouldn't be worried. They have been extremely helpful to the emulation communities with semi-official jailbreaks and I'd be shocked if they didn't continue to do so. Their reputation is built on high quality, highly customizable products. If anything, I see this as the first step on the road to a unified ecosystem. While that could lead to a store with official ROMs for purchase, I don't think it will inhibit modding. I'd be willing to bet they'd reject a store partner before agreeing to lock their hardware.

[TDIRunner | 2,735]

This is an awful lot of complaining for something that has an extremely low chance of actually occurring.  Reading these complaints is like watching people plan out how they will spend their lotto winnings after buying a ticket.   

[DoctorEncore | 3,691]

11 minutes ago, TDIRunner said:

This is an awful lot of complaining for something that has an extremely low chance of actually occurring.  Reading these complaints is like watching people plan out how they will spend their lotto winnings after buying a ticket.   

So you're saying I should play the lottery?