Help me settle a debate: Is a cheesesteak a sub?

[CodysGameRoom | 2,009]

Interesting result so far...

So a philly cheesesteak is definitely not a sub. 

The "its on a sub roll" argument is completely invalid. IF you use the same bun on a hamburger and a chicken sandwich does that make a chicken sandwich a hamburger? No. The bread is irrelevant. 

I challenge any one of you who said yes, it is a sub, to find one single source on the internet that says a philly is a sub. 

On Wikipedia's list of notable sandwiches, submarine and philly cheesesteak and listed separately. On the Wikipedia page for Sub, the words philly or cheesesteak and not mentioned once, not even in related articles. On the Wikipedia page for phillys, subs are not mentioned once. I understand Wikipedia is crowd sourced information and not always reliable, but in this case I think it's pretty safe.

So, if anyone wants to back up their claim, I'll be waiting. Until then, I think it's quite clear that a philly cheesesteak is clear as day, not a sub. 

[drxandy | 3,245]

Never been to Philly, never had a real cheesesteak.

Always have I gone with the bastardized version with peppers and mushrooms too, but never from subway.

Thanks for the philly food education.

[phart010 | 1,710]

1 hour ago, The Count said:

I feel like it's not a sub unless it's made by Subway. A Philly is in it's own category of sandwich regardless of the bread vessel.

But they do make Phillies at Subway. Although when they make it, they can add lettuce, tomatoes, pickles etc.

Edited May 7, 2021 by phart010

[Khromak | 787]

Yeah it's definitely a sub. To mirror what other people are saying, if it's on a sub roll you can put whatever you want in there, it's still a submarine sandwich. You can talk about how good or bad they are but it's fundamentally a sub. You can't add parmesan cheese to a pizza and say it's no longer a pizza because it's super awesome and you're proud of your local innovative chefs for coming up with a brilliant idea.

[The Count | 545]

27 minutes ago, phart010 said:

But they do make Phillies at Subway. Although when they make it, they can add lettuce, tomatoes, pickles etc.

Right, I know that, I meant a Philly is a sub when made by Subway, but not when made elsewhere.

[fcgamer | 4,792]

1 hour ago, CodysGameRoom said:

IF you use the same bun on a hamburger and a chicken sandwich does that make a chicken sandwich a hamburger? No. The bread is irrelevant

This is actually a really bad example

In Taiwan and China, the word "hanbao" is used for "hamburger", and for chicken burgers they call them "jirou hanbao", "chicken hamburgers". I've heard tons of adults say this over the years, in English, and we've had some heated discussions in my classes about it before.

I know in the States / English we have a very different concept, but it just really made me laugh when I read your example.

Very interesting argument you make though, I need to look into it more.

Edited May 7, 2021 by fcgamer

[phart010 | 1,710]

27 minutes ago, Khromak said:

Yeah it's definitely a sub. To mirror what other people are saying, if it's on a sub roll you can put whatever you want in there, it's still a submarine sandwich. You can talk about how good or bad they are but it's fundamentally a sub. You can't add parmesan cheese to a pizza and say it's no longer a pizza because it's super awesome and you're proud of your local innovative chefs for coming up with a brilliant idea.

At what point can you call it a pizza and not a sub?
 

[Khromak | 787]

4 minutes ago, phart010 said:

At what point can you call it a pizza and not a sub?
 

Open-faced sub. Very shallow bread bowl soup. I think we should just move to the cube food theory:

https://cuberule.com/

[CodysGameRoom | 2,009]

44 minutes ago, Khromak said:

if it's on a sub roll you can put whatever you want in there, it's still a submarine sandwich

If you put a chicken patty on a hamburger bun is it a hamburger?

The answer is no, it's a chicken sandwich. Completely different type of sandwich despite the same type of bread.

[CodysGameRoom | 2,009]

18 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

This is actually a really bad example

In Taiwan and China, the word "hanbao" is used for "hamburger", and for chicken burgers they call them "jirou hanbao", "chicken hamburgers". I've heard tons of adults say this over the years, in English, and we've had some heated discussions in my classes about it before.

That's just incorrect nomenclature becoming common. It happens all the time. It's like saying "hand me a kleenex" when its not Kleenex brand. It's not a kleenex, it's just a tissue. It's technically wrong, but it's so common that it's accepted.

[fcgamer | 4,792]

7 minutes ago, CodysGameRoom said:

That's just incorrect nomenclature becoming common. It happens all the time. It's like saying "hand me a kleenex" when its not Kleenex brand. It's not a kleenex, it's just a tissue. It's technically wrong, but it's so common that it's accepted.

No, in Chinese language it's correct. I presume you don't speak Chinese, and my apologies if you do, but if you look at the phrases in the attached pictures, the translation (in literal English) would be "hamburger" and "chicken meat hamburger" for the one that might be referred to as a chicken sandwich, chicken burger, chicken patty, etc.

It's not particularly relevant to this conversation, as we are talking about USA English usages, rather than Chinese language usages, but that still doesn't change the fact that for one part of the world's population, chicken sandwiches are indeed hamburgers, something that I know all too well.

Don't want to sidetrack your topic further, but the example you gave really did make me lol quite a bit, given the above context, so thanks for that, and you can just file it away under useless information to retain for a rainy day 

[phart010 | 1,710]

23 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

This is actually a really bad example

In Taiwan and China, the word "hanbao" is used for "hamburger", and for chicken burgers they call them "jirou hanbao", "chicken hamburgers". I've heard tons of adults say this over the years, in English, and we've had some heated discussions in my classes about it before.

I know in the States / English we have a very different concept, but it just really made me laugh when I read your example.

Very interesting argument you make though, I need to look into it more.

Furthermore, the original hamburgers were actually called “hamburger sandwich”.. the term Hamburger was specifically referring to the meat inside the sandwich. Nowadays the term hamburger tends to refer to the entire sandwich, so I can see why they would say chicken hamburger.

Its kind of like how the model names of cars evolved. Like for example Honda Civic used to have a variation called Civic CRX. At some point they dropped Civic and just called the model CRX. Then they made a CRX variant called CRX del sol or Civic del sol. Then they dropped everything and just called it Honda del sol. 
 

There’s lots of examples like this in cars where variants became their own models outright, like Subaru Impreza WRX STI, Toyota Celica Supra, etc

[phart010 | 1,710]

16 minutes ago, CodysGameRoom said:

That's just incorrect nomenclature becoming common. It happens all the time. It's like saying "hand me a kleenex" when its not Kleenex brand. It's not a kleenex, it's just a tissue. It's technically wrong, but it's so common that it's accepted.

This is how language evolves. People say things that may be incorrect. If it catches on with enough people, then it gets called slang. If slang becomes widespread enough, it gets put in the dictionary. By the time it’s in the the dictionaries,  autocorrect and spellcheck are validating it, and everyone is using it, it officially becomes part of the language 

[Khromak | 787]

18 minutes ago, CodysGameRoom said:

If you put a chicken patty on a hamburger bun is it a hamburger?

The answer is no, it's a chicken sandwich. Completely different type of sandwich despite the same type of bread.

Well no, but that's because a hamburger isn't defined by the bun. You can put pulled pork on a "hamburger bun" and it won't be a hamburger, because a hamburger is a piece of ground beef on a bun, not "anything between these two buns." A submarine sandwich is "anything you put in this style of bread" more or less.

You have a bunch of veggies and cheese in a sub roll? It's a sub. Chicken fingers, lettuce, and onion in a sub roll? Sub. Meatballs and mozzarella in a sub roll? Sub. Cold cuts and cheese in a sub roll? Sub. Chopped steak, cheese, and onions in a sub roll? Sub.

That's the way (American) society has decided to label things. Sorry if you don't feel that way or you think your sub has transcended subhood, but the rest of us disagree and when it comes to matters of language and labelling, majority rules sucka.

[Hammerfestus | 3,921]

Purist Cheesesteaks are a waste of my time.  If that sub doesn’t have mushrooms you can get that trash out of here.

[phart010 | 1,710]

13 minutes ago, Khromak said:

Well no, but that's because a hamburger isn't defined by the bun. You can put pulled pork on a "hamburger bun" and it won't be a hamburger, because a hamburger is a piece of ground beef on a bun, not "anything between these two buns." A submarine sandwich is "anything you put in this style of bread" more or less.

You have a bunch of veggies and cheese in a sub roll? It's a sub. Chicken fingers, lettuce, and onion in a sub roll? Sub. Meatballs and mozzarella in a sub roll? Sub. Cold cuts and cheese in a sub roll? Sub. Chopped steak, cheese, and onions in a sub roll? Sub.

 

What if you dipped the sub roll in eggs, fried it and put powdered sugar and cinnamon inside.. French toast or sub?

[Jeevan | 9,024]

This is on the internet, u might even have one in your location, idk, but it's a good place to eat.

Anytime I goto PENN STATION, EAST COAST SUBS, I get the Philly with onions, banana peppers, and spicy brown mustard.  It is from a sub shop......ergo it is a sub.........

[Jeevan | 9,024]

also, to note, genos Philly cheesesteaks are pretty tasty.  I have had them before and omg, fuggin amazing.

[Jeevan | 9,024]

And one more thing, you don't call a sub a sub sandwich, u call it a sub.  u don't call a Philly a sub, u call it a Philly or a Philly cheesesteak.  just because it isn't commonly called that doesn't mean that this sandwich is not a sub.

[phart010 | 1,710]

I just did some further research. This may be throwing a big wrench into things.

I have read that the original Philly Cheesesteak was invented by a hot dog cart vendor and it was actually served on a hotdog bun, not on a sub roll. Boom  

[JamesRobot | 5,844]

So if this is a sub,

 

...then what is this?

 

 

 

 

 

[phart010 | 1,710]

While we are getting technical with the semantics side of things, Philly Cheesesteaks were popularized by Pats and Genos in Philly. They made the sandwiches with cheese whiz, not provolone. If it’s not made the way they make it in Philly can you really call it a “Philly cheese steak”? Why not just call it a cheese steak instead??

[Jeevan | 9,024]

1 minute ago, JamesRobot said:

So if this is a sub,

 

...then what is this?

 

 

 

 

 

stomach issues!

[Tabonga | 2,363]

18 minutes ago, JamesRobot said:

 

...then what is this?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

15 hours ago, Ninja Warriors said:

Usually Cheesesteaks are a separate category from Cold cut Subs (Hoagies)

If you want to split those hairs, wouldn't a cheesesteak be a type of "grinder"?  (i.e. a meat-based hot sub)

 

All still subs, though