Help me settle a debate: Is a cheesesteak a sub?

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

1 hour ago, phart010 said:

What if you dipped the sub roll in eggs, fried it and put powdered sugar and cinnamon inside.. French toast or sub?

Both, and.

Sub is the form factor.  French toast would be the bread-type

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

3 hours ago, CodysGameRoom said:

Interesting result so far...

So a philly cheesesteak is definitely not a sub. 

The "its on a sub roll" argument is completely invalid. IF you use the same bun on a hamburger and a chicken sandwich does that make a chicken sandwich a hamburger? No. The bread is irrelevant. 

I challenge any one of you who said yes, it is a sub, to find one single source on the internet that says a philly is a sub. 

On Wikipedia's list of notable sandwiches, submarine and philly cheesesteak and listed separately. On the Wikipedia page for Sub, the words philly or cheesesteak and not mentioned once, not even in related articles. On the Wikipedia page for phillys, subs are not mentioned once. I understand Wikipedia is crowd sourced information and not always reliable, but in this case I think it's pretty safe.

So, if anyone wants to back up their claim, I'll be waiting. Until then, I think it's quite clear that a philly cheesesteak is clear as day, not a sub. 

Submarine sandwiches are a form factor (i.e. determined by bread style -- or at least, aspect ratio) with a huge variety of available fillings. (both cold and hot)

A "hamburger" is determined by the patty/meat -- it could be on a bun, it could be on sliced bread (i.e. a patty melt), etc.

 

Your attempt at set theory on this was misapplied

Edited May 7, 2021 by arch_8ngel

[phart010 | 1,705]

33 minutes ago, arch_8ngel said:

Submarine sandwiches are a form factor (i.e. determined by bread style -- or at least, aspect ratio) with a huge variety of available fillings. (both cold and hot)

A "hamburger" is determined by the patty/meat -- it could be on a bun, it could be on sliced bread (i.e. a patty melt), etc.

 

Your attempt at set theory on this was misapplied

Original Philly was on a hotdog bun.

Cmon man!

Edited May 7, 2021 by phart010

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

2 minutes ago, phart010 said:

Original Philly was on a hotdog bun.

Cmon man!

I don't think I've seen or had a philly on a hot dog bun in 30 years (back when my mom used to cook Steakums for weekend lunches)

But my earlier post in the thread pointed this out as the "real question" -- this is, a hot dog is definitely a type of sandwhich -- but does it meet the requirements of a sub?

If it does, then the question in the OP is clearly answered, as well.

[Naked Warrior | 288]

So, as someone who is not originally from Philly, but has lived in (near) Philly for the past 15 years, I can tell you this (from the prospective of Philadelphians):

1) The question should be "Is a cheesesteak a hoagie?" (Sub-sandwich is not in the vocabulary of a real Philadelphian) and
2) Hell no, it's not a hoagie.  You think I take the Schuylkill down to Center City to get a "hoagie" wizwit and watch The Birds whip the Giants' ass? What are you, stunad?

[phart010 | 1,705]

7 minutes ago, arch_8ngel said:

I don't think I've seen or had a philly on a hot dog bun in 30 years (back when my mom used to cook Steakums for weekend lunches)

But my earlier post in the thread pointed this out as the "real question" -- this is, a hot dog is definitely a type of sandwhich -- but does it meet the requirements of a sub?

If it does, then the question in the OP is clearly answered, as well.

I would have to say no. A bun is a type of bread, it doesn’t matter what the form factor is. It can be a hotdog bun a hamburger bun or just a regular bun, they’re all the same type of bread. The type of bread used in a sub is it more course type of bread.
 

But even then I would still argue that is sub typically has fresh cut garden vegetables in it. Meatball sub is called a sub in name only, but I don’t think that’s really a sub

[phart010 | 1,705]

1 minute ago, Naked Warrior said:

So, as someone who is not originally from Philly, but has lived in (near) Philly for the past 15 years, I can tell you this (from the prospective of Philadelphians):

1) The question should be "Is a cheesesteak a hoagie?" (Sub-sandwich is not in the vocabulary of a real Philadelphian) and
2) Hell no, it's not a hoagie.  You think I take the Schuylkill down to Center City to get a "hoagie" wizwit and watch The Birds whip the Giants' ass? What are you, stunad?

If anybody is considered the authoritative source to answer this question, I would say it is the people of and around Philly

[MagusSmurf | 577]

The opinions of Philadelphians might have some some relevance to what counts as an authentic Philly Cheesesteak but I don't see why what they might say about submarine sandwiches would matter even the slightest bit.

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

2 hours ago, Khromak said:

That's the way (American) society has decided to label things. Sorry if you don't feel that way or you think your sub has transcended subhood, but the rest of us disagree and when it comes to matters of language and labelling, majority rules sucka.

Ok, that's your opinion. Can you find a source? I'd just like to see one source on the internet. 

Majority does not rule. If you put 100 people in a room, and 90 of them think the earth is flat, that doesn't make them right.

2 hours ago, Jeevan said:

It is from a sub shop......ergo it is a sub.........

So my soda, chips, and cookie from Subway are a sub? That argument is invalid. Sub shops also sell sandwiches that are not subs. 

However, in your image, it does have the header of grilled subs, and then shows the cheesesteak. So far, that's the first and only instance I can find of a cheesesteak being classified a sub, officially.

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

2 hours ago, Jeevan said:

just because it isn't commonly called that doesn't mean that this sandwich is not a sub.

A sub and a philly are both sandwiches. You can call them a sandwich if you want, it's the classification. 

 

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

1 hour ago, arch_8ngel said:

Submarine sandwiches are a form factor (i.e. determined by bread style -- or at least, aspect ratio) with a huge variety of available fillings. (both cold and hot)

A "hamburger" is determined by the patty/meat -- it could be on a bun, it could be on sliced bread (i.e. a patty melt), etc.

 

Your attempt at set theory on this was misapplied

I'm not so sure. A hamburger is not defined by the patty. If you have a hamburger on a bun, it's a hamburger. If you have a hamburger on a bun with cheese, it's not a hamburger. It's a cheeseburger. Officially. Therefore, the contents of the sandwich have a direct effect on the name of the sandwich. It's not defined by the bread. It is defined by the contents.

[Bearcat-Doug | 5,104]

5 hours ago, CodysGameRoom said:

Interesting result so far...

So a philly cheesesteak is definitely not a sub. 

The "its on a sub roll" argument is completely invalid. IF you use the same bun on a hamburger and a chicken sandwich does that make a chicken sandwich a hamburger? No. The bread is irrelevant. 

I challenge any one of you who said yes, it is a sub, to find one single source on the internet that says a philly is a sub. 

On Wikipedia's list of notable sandwiches, submarine and philly cheesesteak and listed separately. On the Wikipedia page for Sub, the words philly or cheesesteak and not mentioned once, not even in related articles. On the Wikipedia page for phillys, subs are not mentioned once. I understand Wikipedia is crowd sourced information and not always reliable, but in this case I think it's pretty safe.

So, if anyone wants to back up their claim, I'll be waiting. Until then, I think it's quite clear that a philly cheesesteak is clear as day, not a sub. 

What is a cheesesteak?
A cheesesteak is made up of thinly sliced, sauteed rib eye beef and melted cheese on a long, crusty roll. Common toppings include fried onions, hot or sweet peppers, sauteed mushrooms and ketchup. A cheesesteak hoagie is a combination of a cold hoagie (as subs are called in the Philly area), and the traditional hot cheesesteak. These have lettuce, tomato and mayonnaise.

source: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxnews.com/food-drink/the-history-of-the-philly-cheesesteak.amp

Edited May 7, 2021 by Bearcat-Doug

[spacepup | 2,404]

@CodysGameRoom You asked for help to settle a debate, with a poll, presumably for people to share their opinions.  And then the overwhelming majority of them disagree with you and you basically say "you guys are wrong, show me proof."  I mean, do you have scientific publications stating it's not a sub?  

I don't really have a strong opinion on this either way, but generally stuff like this is sort of semantics and also just what people feel and think about a topic, usually in good fun.

 

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

8 minutes ago, Bearcat-Doug said:

What is a cheesesteak?
A cheesesteak is made up of thinly sliced, sauteed rib eye beef and melted cheese on a long, crusty roll. Common toppings include fried onions, hot or sweet peppers, sauteed mushrooms and ketchup. A cheesesteak hoagie is a combination of a cold hoagie (as subs are called in the Philly area), and the traditional hot cheesesteak. These have lettuce, tomato and mayonnaise.

source: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxnews.com/food-drink/the-history-of-the-philly-cheesesteak.amp

Re-read. This is talking about two separate food items, a cheesesteak, and a cheesesteak hoagie. Two different things. It is even saying a cheesesteak hoagie is a combination of a hoagie (aka sub) and a philly. How can it be a combination of itself? Debunked.

What is a cheesesteak?

A cheesesteak is made up of thinly sliced, sauteed rib eye beef and melted cheese on a long, crusty roll. Common toppings include fried onions, hot or sweet peppers, sauteed mushrooms and ketchup.

A cheesesteak hoagie is a combination of a cold hoagie (as subs are called in the Philly area), and the traditional hot cheesesteak. These have lettuce, tomato and mayonnaise.

 

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

6 minutes ago, spacepup said:

@CodysGameRoom You asked for help to settle a debate, with a poll, presumably for people to share their opinions.  And then the overwhelming majority of them disagree with you and you basically say "you guys are wrong, show me proof."  I mean, do you have scientific publications stating it's not a sub?  

I don't really have a strong opinion on this either way, but generally stuff like this is sort of semantics and also just what people feel and think about a topic, usually in good fun.

 

I am having a great time. Is anyone here not? If they aren't they don't have to participate. I'm pretty confused by this callout. Personally I'm greatly enjoying this debate. What is the issue here?

I have stated a few sources earlier. No, they are not scientific publications. But the proof is there on the internet with the lack of existence of any official source calling it a sub. And so far, with one exception of a restaurant menu, I haven't seen that yet. I am asking for definitive proof. Is that so much to ask?

[spacepup | 2,404]

Hahah, It's not a "callout" or attack or anything.  Just humorous.  I'm finding the conversation pretty entertaining as well.  Sorry if my tone came across like a "callout" but my point still stands ha

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

17 minutes ago, CodysGameRoom said:

I'm not so sure. A hamburger is not defined by the patty. If you have a hamburger on a bun, it's a hamburger. If you have a hamburger on a bun with cheese, it's not a hamburger. It's a cheeseburger. Officially. Therefore, the contents of the sandwich have a direct effect on the name of the sandwich. It's not defined by the bread. It is defined by the contents.

A cheeseburger is a type of hamburger.

Both are defined by having a beef patty -- the bread is irrelevant (in some parts of the world you eat a hamburger without a bun and use a fork and knife -- but the patty is more-or-less the same)

 

But a "sub" is broadly defined as pretty much any type of sandwich, hot or cold, that you can concoct on a sub-style roll.

If you want to get right down to it -- the McRib is probably "technically" a type of sub

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

44 minutes ago, Naked Warrior said:

So, as someone who is not originally from Philly, but has lived in (near) Philly for the past 15 years, I can tell you this (from the prospective of Philadelphians):

1) The question should be "Is a cheesesteak a hoagie?" (Sub-sandwich is not in the vocabulary of a real Philadelphian) and
2) Hell no, it's not a hoagie.  You think I take the Schuylkill down to Center City to get a "hoagie" wizwit and watch The Birds whip the Giants' ass? What are you, stunad?

It's not a "hoagie" because it's a type of "grinder"   (but both "hoagies" and "grinders' are types of submarine sandwiches)

Edited May 7, 2021 by arch_8ngel

[spacepup | 2,404]

Penn Station also says "Our menu features an array of mouth watering Grilled Penn Station submarine sandwiches, fresh-cut fries and hand-squeezed lemonade"

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

44 minutes ago, phart010 said:

I would have to say no. A bun is a type of bread, it doesn’t matter what the form factor is. It can be a hotdog bun a hamburger bun or just a regular bun, they’re all the same type of bread. The type of bread used in a sub is it more course type of bread.
 

But even then I would still argue that is sub typically has fresh cut garden vegetables in it. Meatball sub is called a sub in name only, but I don’t think that’s really a sub

Disagree - a meatball sub is a valid type of sub, which sets the precedent that "form factor" (i.e. a bun longer than it is wide) is generally what defines a sandwich as a "sub".

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

3 minutes ago, spacepup said:

Hahah, It's not a "callout" or attack or anything.  Just humorous.  I'm finding the conversation pretty entertaining as well.  Sorry if my tone came across like a "callout" but my point still stands ha

Ok phew, were all good. Maybe your status as an admin had me sweating a bit un-necessarily. "Like was I breaking rules?" lol 

Anyway, yea. This is all in good fun. Nice to be in a debate about something silly for once too.

 

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

3 minutes ago, spacepup said:

Penn Station also says "Our menu features an array of mouth watering Grilled Penn Station submarine sandwiches, fresh-cut fries and hand-squeezed lemonade"

Yes, we did establish Penn Station East Coast Subs as the first example I've seen (and only one).

 

[spacepup | 2,404]

Yeah, don't take that as "admin stepping in" - that was just me personally joining the conversation.

[Bearcat-Doug | 5,104]

8 minutes ago, CodysGameRoom said:

Re-read. This is talking about two separate food items, a cheesesteak, and a cheesesteak hoagie. Two different things. It is even saying a cheesesteak hoagie is a combination of a hoagie (aka sub) and a philly. How can it be a combination of itself? Debunked.

What is a cheesesteak?

A cheesesteak is made up of thinly sliced, sauteed rib eye beef and melted cheese on a long, crusty roll. Common toppings include fried onions, hot or sweet peppers, sauteed mushrooms and ketchup.

A cheesesteak hoagie is a combination of a cold hoagie (as subs are called in the Philly area), and the traditional hot cheesesteak. These have lettuce, tomato and mayonnaise.

 

I'm not really sure why they consider adding lettuce, tomato and mayo to be a variation, but they refer to it as a hoagie/sub so it should still qualify even without lettuce and tomato.

[spacepup | 2,404]

Just now, CodysGameRoom said:

Yes, we did establish Penn Station East Coast Subs as the first example I've seen (and only one).

 

I'd wager that a company specializing in subs, probably has a pretty valid opinion on the subject.