arch_8ngel | 1,597 Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 1 minute ago, Californication said: The whole premise does not make sense. They did not want an open, direct war. Iran was not bargaining for anything. They were asking not to be attacked which is a sovereign right. The U.S. said they wanted to go to war. The U.S. looked for provacation. If they shot down their own plane it would have to have an effect in addition to the firing of the missiles to make the U.S. want to walk away. I don't know how many different ways I have to say this. The U.S. has to be the one to walk away. They are the only party asking for open direct violence. There are more layers to this than simply "walking away". Answer this as a starting point: Do you think that Iran shooting down a civilian jet with 176 people on it (from a number of 3rd countries) puts Iran in a stronger or weaker position, related to any geopolitical bargaining going on? Or do you think it is wholly irrelevant to how other countries are going to participate in the on-going situation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloves | 11,846 Administrator · Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 1 minute ago, Californication said: If I am walking down the street and some guy says give me your money this a robbery, and I say please don't rob me and I break two of my fingers, how does that have any effect on whether the guy chooses to rob me. Honestly man if I was robbing someone and they were all "please no" and then openly broke two of their own fingers, I may actually consider walking away from that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arch_8ngel | 1,597 Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, Californication said: If I am walking down the street and some guy says give me your money this a robbery, and I say please don't rob me and I break two of my fingers, how does that have any effect on whether the guy chooses to rob me. In your example, are you going to be in a better, or worse, position to prevent yourself from being robbed once you've broken your own fingers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Californication | 1,490 Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 19 minutes ago, arch_8ngel said: There are more layers to this than simply "walking away". Answer this as a starting point: Do you think that Iran shooting down a civilian jet with 176 people on it (from a number of 3rd countries) puts Iran in a stronger or weaker position, related to any geopolitical bargaining going on? Or do you think it is wholly irrelevant to how other countries are going to participate in the on-going situation? I think it's irrelevant. I don't think Iran is holding it's breath waiting for Israel, the UK, or most of the other countrys that obey the ridiculous sanctions against them to side with them. Iran has Russia and China in its corner, more or less, and a downed plane is like spilled milk to these people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloves | 11,846 Administrator · Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 7 minutes ago, Californication said: I think it's irrelevant. I don't think Iran is holding it's breath waiting for Israel, the UK, or most of the other countrys that obey the ridiculous sanctions against them to side with them. Iran has Russia and China in its corner, more or less, and a downed plane is like spilled milk to these people. One thing I tend to hesitate to say, but historically it holds fairly true and aligns well with your spilled milk statement, is that political lives are worth more than civilian lives when it comes to waging wars. It's not you or me who gets to say "rally the troops we're going overseas", it's the high up dude. If my friend was on that plane (60+ Canadians on that downed plane, last I read) I'd get to say diddly about it. But I wonder if Trump's pals were on it how things would be handled (or any leader, really). I'm not out here reading newspapers or watching political news (or any news for that matter) on the daily, but I do hit up /r/all once a day to see if I should be buying guns or apocalypse supplies (by the time I read it it's too late), but I'm not seeing a lot of up in arms about 60+ Canadian civilians being killed in an "accident". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arch_8ngel | 1,597 Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Californication said: I think it's irrelevant. I don't think Iran is holding it's breath waiting for Israel, the UK, or most of the other countrys that obey the ridiculous sanctions against them to side with them. Iran has Russia and China in its corner, more or less, and a downed plane is like spilled milk to these people. Still worth paying attention to, in the context of the discussion of hostilities between USA and Iran, IMO. But it very well could encourage stronger international (sans Russia/China) support for those "ridiculous sanctions" if Iran doesn't properly assist with the accident investigation from the countries of the victims. EDIT: in the context of the original thread topic -- I personally don't think that Trump managing restraint following Iran's retaliation completely cancels out his behavior in the first place, but the right wing spin on this has been pretty fast and furious in its justifications on his behalf, so I suspect the average person may come to see it as a net positive if things don't spiral further. That said, there are probably a quite a few cyber threats in the hopper from Iran that won't be practical to retaliate against, so they will probably come out better in the "trade" of the USA having killed a general a few of his lackeys. Edited January 9, 2020 by arch_8ngel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintendo Historian | 43 Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 (edited) On 1/3/2020 at 11:53 AM, CodysGameRoom said: God doesn't exist. Provide factual evidence showing otherwise. Also, please review Separation of Church and State. Man did define marriage... marriage is a lawful union created by man... Nothing worse than people who bring up former presidents when discussing the shortcomings of current ones. I hope your own spelling and grammar on this forum is not indicative of your own speech patterns. Sigh, I don't even know why I'm replying to what is clearly a troll. First and foremost the THEORY of “Separation of Church and State “is just that a theory .Which most folks subconsciously “violate “that so-called “principal. 2nd ..Most people vote according to their particular religious convictions (or lack of ),whether they admit or not ..Because “Separation of Church and State “is a none working THEORY designed by Liberals to “create “their own morality .. 3rd :Man DID NOT “define marriage “,as it is evident even in ancient pagan /polytheistic religions ,which also define marriage between a Man and Woman .Or at least between Men and a woman ,which at least is marriage between opposite genders ..And even one is Atheist ,natural law dictates marriage is Between a Man and a Woman 4th :Only forks like you that have a distorted understanding of both Theology ,as well as science and reason to ATTEMP to justify their position on Atheism . 5th :lol ..Obama himself bought up the “short comings “of his 2 immediate predecessors to explain his own “short comings “(which he had many as president..Liberals like you are just too blinded by your Liberal propaganda to see the Objective truth in that .. 6th :There is nothing worse than a Liberal calling someone else names that does not agree with their position on things ,which in turn makes them a “troll “.Usually when one results to name calling it is a sign of weaknesses in their arguments /debating skills .. 7th :I see this site has some of the same folks with “tunnel vision “ as some of the folks on NA ,which makes me not want to even be a member here .. BTW: Please provide “FACTUAL evidence “God does not “exist “.. Any I will still have my great game collection /and knowledge with ,or without this site ..Lol PEACE ! Edited January 9, 2020 by NES CONNOISSEUR 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloves | 11,846 Administrator · Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 That was fun to read lol. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacepup | 2,412 Administrator · Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 17 minutes ago, NES CONNOISSEUR said: First and foremost the THEORY of “Separation of Church and State “is just that a theory .Which most folks subconsciously “violate “that so-called “principal. To messers. Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson, a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut. Gentlemen The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing. Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties. I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem. Th Jefferson Jan. 1. 1802. Library of Congresshttps://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/9806/danpre.html 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Br81zad | 629 Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodysGameRoom | 2,009 Posted January 9, 2020 Author Share Posted January 9, 2020 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Californication | 1,490 Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 1 hour ago, arch_8ngel said: Still worth paying attention to, in the context of the discussion of hostilities between USA and Iran, IMO. But it very well could encourage stronger international (sans Russia/China) support for those "ridiculous sanctions" if Iran doesn't properly assist with the accident investigation from the countries of the victims. EDIT: in the context of the original thread topic -- I personally don't think that Trump managing restraint following Iran's retaliation completely cancels out his behavior in the first place, but the right wing spin on this has been pretty fast and furious in its justifications on his behalf, so I suspect the average person may come to see it as a net positive if things don't spiral further. That said, there are probably a quite a few cyber threats in the hopper from Iran that won't be practical to retaliate against, so they will probably come out better in the "trade" of the USA having killed a general a few of his lackeys. I think you're right. I don't think Iran wants a direct confrontation, but they are going to f!$# with us behind the scenes. Having the restraint to not gonfurther than they did was highly intelligent. They must be very politically savy. Did you hear that Iran is one of the greatest beneficiarys of the war in Iraq. They have somehow managed to take advange of the chaos we've created over there to increase their power in the region. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulpa | 3,537 Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 30 minutes ago, NES CONNOISSEUR said: 4th :Only forks like you that have a distorted understanding of both Theology ,as well as science and reason to ATTEMP to justify their position on Atheism . I'll have you know good sir, that he is actually a spoon. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodysGameRoom | 2,009 Posted January 9, 2020 Author Share Posted January 9, 2020 1 minute ago, Tulpa said: I'll have you know good sir, that he is actually a spoon. Did you just assume my gender? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PineappleLawnchair | 88 Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 Blaming Liberals for the Separation of Church and State. I really hope he is just pretending to be stupid, because my god. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulpa | 3,537 Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 Just now, CodysGameRoom said: Did you just assume my gender? I'm sorry, is the correct term spork? I'm not up on my utensil identity terms. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintendo Historian | 43 Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 (edited) 36 minutes ago, spacepup said: To messers. Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson, a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut. Gentlemen The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing. Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties. I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem. Th Jefferson Jan. 1. 1802. Library of Congresshttps://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/9806/danpre.html I have read ^^this ..And I never wrote that it was not written in an Historical document,as I am very well versed in history of all sorts .I wrote that is a THEORY that is unworkable ,or at the very least A subconsciously violated principal in American ideology.. And “Separation of Church and State “was originally intended to get rid of any notion of having a “state church /or singular religion “,it was never intended to allow Congress to “re-define marriage “or any of other Liberal laws that recently have come into effect /existence ...Let’s take the notion of so-called “same sex marriage “that is a concept that did even exist 25 -30 years ago ,much less when Congress introduced “Separation of Church and State “into American Ideology over 200 years ago .. Edited January 9, 2020 by NES CONNOISSEUR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodysGameRoom | 2,009 Posted January 9, 2020 Author Share Posted January 9, 2020 17 minutes ago, NES CONNOISSEUR said: And “Separation of Church and State “was originally intended to get rid of any notion of having a “state church /or singular religion “,it was never intended to allow Congress to “re-define marriage “or any of other Liberal laws that recently have come into effect /existence ...Let’s take the notion of so-called “same sex marriage “that is a concept that did even exist 25 -30 years ago ,much less when Congress introduced “Separation of Church and State “into American Ideology over 200 years ago .. I'm not sure why you are going on and on about it... you've already made it clear to all of us that you subscribe to homophobic and bigoted ideologies. We get it man. We can move on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloves | 11,846 Administrator · Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 1 minute ago, CodysGameRoom said: I'm not sure why you are going on and on about it... you've already made it clear to all of us that you subscribe to homophobic and bigoted ideologies. We get it man. We can move on. No man, you tossed the crumbs! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed Rothchild | 9,599 Editorials Team · Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 Your Church has as much place in our laws as Allah, Xenu, Jim Jones, and the flying spaghetti monster Superstition is a personal thing. Not something forced on others. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintendo Historian | 43 Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 1 hour ago, PineappleLawnchair said: Blaming Liberals for the Separation of Church and State. I really hope he is just pretending to be stupid, because my god. Lol ..I really hope that your comment that I am “stupid “because of I am posting Objective facts does not make you truly as ignorant as you sound .And I never wrote “Liberals “are to blame for “Separation of Church and State “,I am implying Liberals are the leading cause of the mis-interpretation of a number laws and seemingly responsible for attempting to re-write “history “. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintendo Historian | 43 Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, CodysGameRoom said: I'm not sure why you are going on and on about it... you've already made it clear to all of us that you subscribe to homophobic and bigoted ideologies. We get it man. We can move on. Lol.I am not “homophobic “,nor am I “bigoted “.I just don’t support certain lifestyle choices that some individuals make ,that is not being a “bigot “.But your above statement just proves the hypocrisy of Liberalism you expert people of faith who DO NOT share your views to be tolerant of your Ideological position ,but you are intolerant of people who share my position on things . But you have the audacity to call me “bigoted “?Lol Man you are full of it !I will comment no further .. Edited January 9, 2020 by NES CONNOISSEUR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammerfestus | 3,892 Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 Damn. I’ll bet there’s enough room for an NWC in that closet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintendo Historian | 43 Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Reed Rothchild said: Your Church has as much place in our laws as Allah, Xenu, Jim Jones, and the flying spaghetti monster Superstition is a personal thing. Not something forced on others. Wow ..You all’s ignorance is showing it’s ugly head more and more ..A lot of this country’s “laws “are historically based on “my Church’s /religion “perception of things ..Lol Edited January 9, 2020 by NES CONNOISSEUR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulpa | 3,537 Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 Just now, NES CONNOISSEUR said: Wow ..You all’s ignorance is showing it’s ugly head more and more ..A lot of this country’s “laws “are historically based “my Church’s /religion “perception of things ..Lol Why are you putting words like laws in quotes all the time? It's like you don't believe they exist. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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