NESfiend | 1,515 Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 I am so dejected. Had that bastard Rocking Rob on the ropes last night. One shot away from beating him 2 games out of 3 to put break time on the completed list. Sank the 9 ball, but put just a little too much english on it and it spun back jusssssst fast enough to roll into the corner pocket. Loss. God knows how many games I will have to sit through before another opportunity like that comes up. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_wizard_666 | 1,325 Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 6 hours ago, Gaia Gensouki said: I didn't know that we were allowed to turn down the difficulty. I thought that at least normal was a must. I remember Burai Fighter being pretty difficult back then. Changing difficulty is fine for most games, but on games where part of the game is locked out, like Double Dragon II or Little Samson, there will be a difficulty requirement listed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khromak | 770 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 Just beat bubble bobble (good ending). The boys treated me pretty well this time, and I even had to beat him twice because I couldn't figure out the stealing lives thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khromak | 770 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 Gremlins 2 is done, quite easy, I'm surprised nobody went after it thus far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarzombie | 927 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 1 hour ago, Khromak said: Just beat bubble bobble (good ending). The boys treated me pretty well this time, and I even had to beat him twice because I couldn't figure out the stealing lives thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PII | 1,890 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 3 hours ago, NESfiend said: I am so dejected. Had that bastard Rocking Rob on the ropes last night. One shot away from beating him 2 games out of 3 to put break time on the completed list. Sank the 9 ball, but put just a little too much english on it and it spun back jusssssst fast enough to roll into the corner pocket. Loss. God knows how many games I will have to sit through before another opportunity like that comes up. You've just gotta ask yourself one thing: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NESfiend | 1,515 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 Break Time: National Pool Tour is finally done. All credit goes to the above inspiration from @PII. Really cool that the congratulations screen tells me to now move on and win the WORLD pool championships. When that doesnt exist on this cart, nor was it later released on a different one. All that effort, and the game tells me its not impressed in so many words. Good times. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PII | 1,890 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 37 minutes ago, NESfiend said: WORLD pool championships Nice goin ! I've been meaning to get into these pool games for a while now. One of these years.... Also, will hafta keep my eyes peeled for a "Break Time: World Pool Tour" or "Break Time: World Pool Championship" Prototype.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NESfiend | 1,515 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 6 minutes ago, PII said: Nice goin ! I've been meaning to get into these pool games for a while now. One of these years.... Also, will hafta keep my eyes peeled for a "Break Time: World Pool Tour" or "Break Time: World Pool Championship" Prototype.. Start with Side Pocket and make that your preferred proto. Basics are the same, but side pocket is a lot cooler, a lot more fun, and with no opponents, you can get a lot more practice in without staring at thinking screens forever. Or clicking through endless prompts that say "Its Rob's turn," or "Rob can now put the cue ball anywhere he likes" on breaks or shots following a scratch. Side Pocket also has an 'aiming line' (can't think of a better term) that often extends to the rails for bank shots, and that really helps you learn NES pool where all the games require the balls to be hit in numerical order. Break time doesn't have that and my side pocket experience paid off a lot there, especially with break time having larger pockets to target. The grind can get long fast trying to beat these things because there is so much repetition, but they are fun to dive into. My fatigued bitching aside, I would recommend checking them out some as you are clearly into pool. Its funny, my NES pool game and my real one look pretty similar - always using way more high english than at all necessary and always ready to attempt a crazy combo on the 9. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Morbis | 2,091 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 I find it really counter-intuitive to the concept of "completing" a game that you guys are all so perfectly fine with skipping large portions of games and then calling them beaten. It makes me wonder about all of the games that mention in the manual how to choose your level before starting: by the rules of this project, I've listed all of the one-level-completions that I can think of that you guys should be totally fine with: -Gyromite- select final phase on the menu screen and complete it and you've "beat the game." -Wrecking Crew- select final stage on the menu screen and complete it and you've "beat the game." -Ice Climber- select final mountain on the menu screen and complete it and you've "beat the game." -Guerilla War- select second last stage on the menu screen and complete the final two levels and you've "beat the game." There are probably a bunch more that I can't think of, but is this how you guys are actually "beating" these games every year for this project - skipping the entire games just because it says how to do it in the manual??? If so, I guess I'm living in a different world than the rest of you NES players, but that's okay; as Kurt said in '91, "Oh well, whatever, nevermind..." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_wizard_666 | 1,325 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 10 minutes ago, Dr. Morbis said: I find it really counter-intuitive to the concept of "completing" a game that you guys are all so perfectly fine with skipping large portions of games and then calling them beaten. It makes me wonder about all of the games that mention in the manual how to choose your level before starting: by the rules of this project, I've listed all of the one-level-completions that I can think of that you guys should be totally fine with: -Gyromite- select final phase on the menu screen and complete it and you've "beat the game." -Wrecking Crew- select final stage on the menu screen and complete it and you've "beat the game." -Ice Climber- select final mountain on the menu screen and complete it and you've "beat the game." -Guerilla War- select second last stage on the menu screen and complete the final two levels and you've "beat the game." There are probably a bunch more that I can't think of, but is this how you guys are actually "beating" these games every year for this project - skipping the entire games just because it says how to do it in the manual??? If so, I guess I'm living in a different world than the rest of you NES players, but that's okay; as Kurt said in '91, "Oh well, whatever, nevermind..." The goal is to get the ending, not fully complete each game. With Wrecking Crew and Ice Climber, it says to beat all the levels, though it doesn't say it has to be in one game. Thus the level select could be used as a "continue" system, which is reasonable. Gyromite doesn't say in the Pastebin, just to beat both modes, but I assume it's the same thing as those two. As for Guerilla War, I didn't realize that you could choose levels. The questionable stuff for me would be things like Spy vs Spy, where you choose a level to play from the start, and the Pastebin says to beat any level. To me, that should fall as being similar to Godzilla 2 or Desert Commander, where every scenario should be beaten to call it a win, even though you technically get the ending after each individual scenario (though I concede that seeing the ending is the primary goal in this thread). We've also said difficulty only matters when it's a requirement for the ending. This is pretty clear cut in the case of Double Dragon II, where you only get the ending on the highest difficulty, but becomes questionable on something like Little Samson, which still gives an ending (though a distinctly lesser one) by playing on easy. To be fair, I don't have an issue with warps. I use them when I beat games, and don't see it as a lesser completion (though a warpless run is an awesome accomplishment on many games, it isn't something that's necessary for the purpose of this thread). But I do agree that there are some backwards ways of checking some games off the list, while making others exceedingly difficult to the point of being unreasonable. Additionally, the Pastebin is woefully out of date, both with requirements (many of the Koei games still list scenario requirements that are no longer considered as necessary), as well as absences that should be there (the aforementioned Godzilla 2 and Desert Commander). Hell, looking at World Champ on there, it says "Compete in all events and get the gold medal in each" as though it's a tournament game. To be clear, it's a boxing game, and has an ending that is unrelated to medals or events. The entry is clearly a mistake. Taking all of this in mind, I also think it's unfair to dump another load of work onto @scaryice in order to get that updated. He has a ton on his plate as it is, what with his statistics tracking and all that fun stuff. I also don't think it's right to change requirements mid-year to address any issues at this point. But I think that maybe the lot of us should work together to work on what should and should not constitute a win for the purposes of this thread in future years. With the exception of @Crabmaster2000, I don't think there's a person who's active here that has played through every game, but I think there's enough experience in the thread that we can put together something that addresses completion requirements that would be fair, reasonable, and most importantly, fun. Because at the end of the day, that's what this should be - fun. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scaryice | 589 Posted February 8 Author Share Posted February 8 Stinger 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scaryice | 589 Posted February 8 Author Share Posted February 8 (edited) I've been trying Pinbot for the last week and I can't seem to do much with that one. I think my best was 7 million. So anyway, here's Commando: Edited February 8 by scaryice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nerdynebraskan | 356 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 6 hours ago, the_wizard_666 said: The goal is to get the ending, not fully complete each game. With Wrecking Crew and Ice Climber, it says to beat all the levels, though it doesn't say it has to be in one game. Thus the level select could be used as a "continue" system, which is reasonable. Gyromite doesn't say in the Pastebin, just to beat both modes, but I assume it's the same thing as those two. As for Guerilla War, I didn't realize that you could choose levels. [...] Taking all of this in mind, I also think it's unfair to dump another load of work onto @scaryice in order to get that updated. He has a ton on his plate as it is, what with his statistics tracking and all that fun stuff. I also don't think it's right to change requirements mid-year to address any issues at this point. But I think that maybe the lot of us should work together to work on what should and should not constitute a win for the purposes of this thread in future years. With the exception of @Crabmaster2000, I don't think there's a person who's active here that has played through every game, but I think there's enough experience in the thread that we can put together something that addresses completion requirements that would be fair, reasonable, and most importantly, fun. Because at the end of the day, that's what this should be - fun. Wrecking Crew, Ice Climber, and Gyromite are all endless arcade-style games that can be looped for high scores. Gyromite just has itwo completely different game modes, so both are required. When there is no clear ending, we play one full loop and break the built-in high score. The established rules are quite consistent for this type of game. And yes, I also consider the level select on the title screen to be a primitive continue menu. I have never seen an option to skip levels in Guerrilla War. Is that activated with a cheat code? On the latter paragraph, I'll also tag @Tablew/chairs as someone I think has beaten at least the entire set of licensed North American NES games. But there are many others like myself who have done at least 1/3 to 1/2 of the library, and it's not like we have the same blind spots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nerdynebraskan | 356 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 12 hours ago, Khromak said: Gremlins 2 is done, quite easy, I'm surprised nobody went after it thus far I was trying to work on it right as I got busy. I was last trying stage 4-1. I grew up with the game, and found nothing easy about it beyond the Stage 1 levels and the first boss. Am I missing something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khromak | 770 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 (edited) 1 hour ago, nerdynebraskan said: I was trying to work on it right as I got busy. I was last trying stage 4-1. I grew up with the game, and found nothing easy about it beyond the Stage 1 levels and the first boss. Am I missing something? IDK, there are some frustrating points like some of the places where you have to jump over a pit and fire at an enemy, or make some awkward shots, but it's very deterministic so you can practice a technique for each enemy. It also helps that you can restart from the same level every time. The bosses can all be beaten by just keeping away from them and plugging damage when possible. I think I killed them all on the first try except the last one. One other thing is a lot of times it's easiest to skip as many enemies as you can, especially those bastards who spin in whirlwind and throw garbage at you; I think I only killed like 1 or 2 of them in the whole game. Since this has no timer, you can take it really slow and be very careful/thoughtful about each jump, each enemy, and your overall strategy. Buying health or an extra life can make up for any mistakes you made, and once you make it to the boss you should be pretty much home free, just keep away from them and get a hit in when you can. The electric guy would stay in place and I could hit him a whole bunch of times from a great distance, then when he gets close I run away and try to get some distance, then spam again. Edited February 8 by Khromak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarzombie | 927 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 9 hours ago, Dr. Morbis said: I find it really counter-intuitive to the concept of "completing" a game that you guys are all so perfectly fine with skipping large portions of games and then calling them beaten. It makes me wonder about all of the games that mention in the manual how to choose your level before starting: by the rules of this project, I've listed all of the one-level-completions that I can think of that you guys should be totally fine with: -Gyromite- select final phase on the menu screen and complete it and you've "beat the game." -Wrecking Crew- select final stage on the menu screen and complete it and you've "beat the game." -Ice Climber- select final mountain on the menu screen and complete it and you've "beat the game." -Guerilla War- select second last stage on the menu screen and complete the final two levels and you've "beat the game." There are probably a bunch more that I can't think of, but is this how you guys are actually "beating" these games every year for this project - skipping the entire games just because it says how to do it in the manual??? If so, I guess I'm living in a different world than the rest of you NES players, but that's okay; as Kurt said in '91, "Oh well, whatever, nevermind..." Whats with the attitude? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nerdynebraskan | 356 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 Casino Kid is done. Also, I just looked at the Guerrilla War manual. I had no idea they'd hidden that menu there. I wonder why SNK didn't just put that out openly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tablew/chairs | 250 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 3 hours ago, nerdynebraskan said: On the latter paragraph, I'll also tag @Tablew/chairs as someone I think has beaten at least the entire set of licensed North American NES games. But there are many others like myself who have done at least 1/3 to 1/2 of the library, and it's not like we have the same blind spots. That’s right and I didn’t do the unlicensed games because they don’t count! (joking) Although I started at least a year before I joined NA i did use the conditions here as my rules the only questionable thing I’d say I did was the helicopter glitch in the fourth stage of Ikari warriors. So yes I don’t think using continues is fair for what we’re trying to do here, in fact I don’t like that emulating is allowed but that’s because I spent just as long collecting the carts as I did beating them. Anyway with this many games there’s gunna be some gray areas but I think scary has done a fabulous job considering there has to be a line drawn somewhere. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tablew/chairs | 250 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 23 hours ago, Gaia Gensouki said: I tried my hands at Time Lord, but I can't beat the boss in the wild west level. Somehow this dude can take an insane amount of bullet and just won't die. I even lost my patience and tried with save states, but even after getting the in-game timer to July this dude just doesn't die. Does he maybe regenerate health and you need to shoot as fast as if you had a turbo controller? There’s is definitely something off about it, you must shoot fast and it has to be almost nonstop but if I remember correctly sometimes he’d go down relatively quickly and if not i’d just reset Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khromak | 770 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 12 hours ago, Dr. Morbis said: -Gyromite- select final phase on the menu screen and complete it and you've "beat the game." -Wrecking Crew- select final stage on the menu screen and complete it and you've "beat the game." -Ice Climber- select final mountain on the menu screen and complete it and you've "beat the game." -Guerilla War- select second last stage on the menu screen and complete the final two levels and you've "beat the game." To be clear: I think you bring up some good points and it's a worthy discussion to have. I see your perspective and I think you have some valid ideas, but I'm not sure I agree with these specific scenarios. I think the difference between a level select code in a manual and a continue code in a manual is you're still experiencing the levels if you use a continue code (Adventure Island, 3d Worldrunner, etc.), you're just given more lives/attempts to do it. To me, the difference between a continue code in a manual and one that isn't (Ikari Warriors) is that one is a cheat code and the other is a mechanic. The Konami code isn't explicitly told to you and must be discovered, therefore it's a cheat code. If the game tells you to press A to continue, that just means they didn't choose to have a "continue" "restart" menu option and opted for a button combination instead, IMO. The same cannot be said for a code that was not available to a kid who bought the game (Konami code, ABBA). The difference between a level select code in a manual and a warp zone in a game, is the latter is a programming/design decision. They decided you get to skip from world 1 to 1-2-3 in SMB3, they decided you can skip from world 1 to the turbo tunnel in Battletoads, and that you could skip from world 4 to 6 in SMB2. They obviously put these in here with the intent that players would use them for a specific skip, for being creative enough to find them. It's all arbitrary, of course, but where do you draw the line? If you say you have to beat every level of every game to experience the whole thing, what about the next guy who says you haven't truly beaten a game unless you've maxed out the score? Gotten every collectible? Collected every coin? Gone down every pipe? Played it single-player and multi-player? Played through it with every character? Completed in 1CC, or even 1 life? It's truly endless, and I think for this contest the goal is basically "get the credits" or "get to the end". Where there aren't credits, we have to make something up and the rules are pretty consistent across those games, I think. I haven't beaten even close to a majority of the games for this contest so others will have to fill in the gaps, but these are the distinctions/logic I see behind the way these decisions were made and I think I agree with all the decisions I've encountered thus far. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NESfiend | 1,515 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 12 hours ago, scaryice said: I've been trying Pinbot for the last week and I can't seem to do much with that one. I think my best was 7 million. So anyway, here's Commando: Damn - I had this one popped in the NES to work on tonight. May be for the best. I need a break after the billiard grind. Seems like great progress this year. I hesitate to ask how it compares to previous years. Seems like whenever I think we are ahead, it turns out we are in pretty much same place as previous years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nerdynebraskan | 356 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 @NESfiend This time of year is pretty euphoric. The first 500 or so really do go quick. It's the last 100 or so that are really brutal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_wizard_666 | 1,325 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 6 hours ago, guitarzombie said: Whats with the attitude? That's his personality. He's always harping on me because on my personal list I don't use the hardest difficulties, use warps, etc. It's just the difference between someone who is content to see the ending (me) and someone who demands near mastery (him). He's even lamented that he'll never beat Chessmaster because he won't count it unless it's on the highest settings, and won't resort to a chess solver to do it that way. Given that his chess skills are average on a good day, that's gonna be an albatross for him. And to be fair, for the purposes of this thread, some games have a lower bar than even I would use. I would never count a golf game as beaten unless I at least tie the par score, except in the case of black box Golf, since it has a built in high score that's significantly more achievable for a golf noob. My personal best of +2 on Bandai Golf would be enough to count it here, but I would never consider that for my personal score. At the end of it, I think he's more confused that a code he deems "acceptable" for his own use is not deemed so for this list, when in so many other metrics, the bar here is significantly lower than on his list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NESfiend | 1,515 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 42 minutes ago, nerdynebraskan said: @NESfiend This time of year is pretty euphoric. The first 500 or so really do go quick. It's the last 100 or so that are really brutal. Last year we beat 600. That leaves 77 unbeaten. Seems like a lot of tough titles that went unbeaten last year are already down. Even if we aren't ahead pace wise, gotta be looking good as far as last years unbeaten games goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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