NES Completions thread 2024 - 662/677

[BriGuy82 | 797]

IRON SWORD

 

[Dr. Morbis | 2,092]

2 minutes ago, the_wizard_666 said:

Gauntlet 2 prompts you to continue, even playing it solo.  Iirc, so does Guerilla War.

Do they?  I don't think I've ever played either game solo in my life, so I wouldn't have ever seen a continue screen if they do.

8 minutes ago, the_wizard_666 said:

Kung Fu Heroes would be like ABBA in Ikari 1 and 2.

I don't think it's relatable to Kung-Fu Heroes at all since in Ikari you continue in game at the exact spot you game over'd just like Guerrilla War, whereas Kung-Fu Heroes goes back to the title screen where you have to hold A and press start.  Thinking about it now, Kung-Fu Heroes has the exact same continue mechanic as Super Mario Bros: hold A to continue on your current world.

But like I said, I'm cool with whatever the rules are here, as I played through Kung-Fu Heroes for my personal list first and foremost, it just never occured to me (or you either when we were playing the game on Saturday ) that continuing would be banned for this game here on vgs...

[BriGuy82 | 797]

That was my childhood copy of of Iron Sword finally being vanquished after 30+ years. And as an added bonus this was folded up with the game in the dust sleeve.

 

[Dr. Morbis | 2,092]

27 minutes ago, the_wizard_666 said:

Edit: I also want to add that not allowing continues is silly to me, and should be an exemption from the cheat codes rule.  The goal is to beat the games, not to master them.  I don't feel like continuing violates the spirit of the games in any way, unlike codes for extra lives or level selects do.

This is pretty much how I feel for my own completions; like I would never spend 500 hours trying to master Ikari 1 just so I could say I did it without continues; I just beat the game with as many continues as I needed many years ago and moved on with my life.  Different strokes for different folks, I guess...

EDIT: actually, the more I think about it, warping in action games and simulating games in sports games violates the spirit of a completions project like this one far more than using a one button continue code does.  I mean, I played through all 32 levels of Kung-Fu Heroes and conquered every single one, but Tecmo NBA basketball, a game with a full season mode and best of seven playoffs, was literally 98% simmed other than a couple of single games played manually at the end!  Which of those two games was actually "completed" here in 2024?!?  But what do I know...

Edited February 7 by Dr. Morbis

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

Regardless, The Adventures of Gilligan's Island is in the books.  Not a particularly good game, but not terrible either.  Pretty easy in all honesty, other than the final boss requiring an insane beating to take out.  I only got him because I got him trapped against a log and managed to get him in a loop where he'd stand up and get knocked down right away.  I could not figure out a way to stick and move like the other boss fights.  But yeah, that's another one down.

[Gaia Gensouki | 1,079]

Zoda's Revenge: StarTropics II is done.

[Daniel_Doyce | 477]

Glad to see there are still a few games left for me to try

I'll keep chugging through the Koei bolus by starting on Nobunaga's Ambition, 50 fiefs, highest difficulty.

[scaryice | 597]

1 hour ago, the_wizard_666 said:

Gauntlet 2 prompts you to continue, even playing it solo.  Iirc, so does Guerilla War.  Kung Fu Heroes would be like ABBA in Ikari 1 and 2.  It isn't mentioned, and wouldn't reasonably be assumed to exist either within the game or by reading the manual.  That's the distinction.

Yes, that's always been the approach I've taken. Gauntlet 2 allows you add players to a game whenever, so it's easy to keep going forever in multiplayer. Can you continue even in a 1P game? I don't see how that works unless I'm missing something...

 

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

Well now yall are making me doubt it.  I'm not sure now.

[scaryice | 597]

1 hour ago, Dr. Morbis said:

I know codes aren't allowed for games, but does holding A when you press start on game over actually count as a code?  I don't use codes for my personal NES completions list, which was my reason for knocking this game out in the first place, and it didn't even occur to me to not count continues when it's just holding down A.

That explains why you were saying it was easier not to warp... It is a code, even though it's simple. So, I don't see how you could allow that without allowing every kind of code. I'll remove it from the list, but I'm sure you can do it without continues!

 

Quote

actually, the more I think about it, warping in action games and simulating games in sports games violates the spirit of a completions project like this one far more than using a one button continue code does.  I mean, I played through all 32 levels of Kung-Fu Heroes and conquered every single one, but Tecmo NBA basketball, a game with a full season mode and best of seven playoffs, was literally 98% simmed other than a couple of single games played manually at the end!  Which of those two games was actually "completed" here in 2024?!?  But what do I know...

It is kind of dumb to just simulate the season. But the logic is, the game lets you do it. That's why I at least play the first game of the regular season so I can feel like it's my team, before I start simming. I ended up playing 6/31 games (with the short season setting). I think that game feels weird because you can just change the setting for each team at any time (manual, coach, skip). If it was a game where you were locked into a single team for the entire franchise mode, it would probably be feel less weird to sim.

Edited February 7 by scaryice

[guitarzombie | 927]

Since no one said anything, I'm gonna assume I can beat Burai Fighter on the easiest difficulty?

[scaryice | 597]

1 hour ago, guitarzombie said:

Since no one said anything, I'm gonna assume I can beat Burai Fighter on the easiest difficulty?

Yes, that's fine.

[Dr. Morbis | 2,092]

2 hours ago, scaryice said:

It is kind of dumb to just simulate the season. But the logic is, the game lets you do it.

That's the same reason I used continues in Kung-Fu Heroes: the game lets you do it   I guess it boils down to us having an entirely different perspective on the matter, as I would never simulate any portion of a sports game and call it beaten for my personal list, nor would I ever use warps in an action game for a legit clear either, while I have no problem at all using continues for games that have them built in and are programed to be very simple to use.  But hey, to each his own

I'm actually trying to kill two birds with one stone here by beating games that are both unbeaten here on the VGS list and games that are also unbeaten on my personal list, so now that I've beaten Kung-Fu Heroes to a level that's satisfactory for me personally, I'm pretty much done with it.  I could probably do a 1CC if I wanted to sink hours and hours more into practicing it, but I don't, so I'll step aside and let someone else kill themselves over trying to scale that ungodly pillar.  Much of this has to do with the fact that I would be doing an actual full run if I did 1CC it (so that it would actually count as a 1CC by my personal standards), which is even more difficult than what you require since I wouldn't be skipping most of the game like whomever does end up "completing" this game to the satisfaction of this project.  I find it incredibly backwards that you will count completions that skip over large portions of a game while discounting runs that play through an entire game but use continues.

Anyway, I have major empathy for whomever is willing to tackle this job in the future, and even more for the poor bastard who is willing to take on Ikari; continues can't be used on a 100% playthrough of Ikari Warriors but sports games can be 90%+ simulated to be legit? Damn...

Edited February 7 by Dr. Morbis

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

4 hours ago, scaryice said:

Yes, that's always been the approach I've taken. Gauntlet 2 allows you add players to a game whenever, so it's easy to keep going forever in multiplayer. Can you continue even in a 1P game? I don't see how that works unless I'm missing something...

 

Well I'll be damned, I guess you can't continue solo.  Unless you bring a new player in right before you die I suppose.  That's just brutal!

[Crabmaster2000 | 502]

I've always felt that if the game, or manual tells you how to continue its legit. It neither does and there's some kind of secret input in order to continue that's a cheat code and shouldn't count. 

[Khromak | 770]

Ultimately all these rules are just arbitrary "what counts as beating a game". If a game has warps (Battletoads, SMB, SMB3, Kung-Fu Heroes, etc.) built into the game, I wouldn't say you didn't beat the game just because you didn't beat all the levels, because the devs put those warps in there and clearly intended for you to use them (for something). You could argue maybe it's a way to make it easier for you to "get back to where you were" after running out of continues or to make the game easier for people who aren't as skilled, or whatever you want, but you still got the credits.

I feel similarly about simulating games: the devs put it in there, it's fair game to use it. The goal isn't to 100% beat every piece of content in the game, just to get to the end/credits.

There are exceptions to this like Puzznic, Sesame street games, etc. where there are multiple game modes and you do have to experience 100% of the content, because there are fundamental differences between the content types, a finish line for each of them, and no way to skip any of it.

I think if a game gives you continues where you can just press start and continue, fair game. If there's a code you would have no way of knowing about, it's a cheat code, developer introduced or not. I think this distinction makes sense, even though it makes a few games hard as nails, it is what it is.

[nerdynebraskan | 356]

Khromak nailed it above, but I want to add two more points:

1) I think developers add cheat codes for different reasons, but if that code wasn't advertised there's a good chance it wasn't intended for consumer usage. I could see the continue code for Super Mario Bros (the closest analog to Kung Fu Heroes) or the 30 lives code in Contra being added by programmers testing the game who didn't have 100 hours to learn the game as intended but still needed to be sure nothing was broken when they released it. 

2) I really think being given the option to skip meaningless regular season games in the season mode of sports games is a weak comparison. In Tecmo Super Bowl, you have no direct control over the CPU's difficulty. It just ramps up gradually with every game you win. Skipping the regular season and choosing a top-2 playoff seed with 12+ wins is not just a way of putting yourself three wins away from the credits; it also throws you straight up against the most ferocious (and sometimes unfair) CPU difficulty with no time to acclimate. And that can be a nice challenge for experienced players. It's definitely analogous to using warps, where you're trading practice time for a chance to beat the game faster. 

[mbd39 | 2,030]

No cheat codes unless they're in the manual is part of the rules. The rules could be changed next year or at some point, but those are the current rules.

I would recommend using warps if you're trying to 1cc Kung Fu Heroes. No sense completing every stage unless you're really into that game. Most of the difficulty is at the end anyway.

EDIT: I remember one year that The Mexican Runner's completion of Kung Fu Heroes was disqualified because he used continues. TMR still considered it legit for Nesmania because he figured out how to continue for himself and nobody told him nor did he look it up. TMR beat other games such as Ikari Warriors without using any cheats.

 

 

Edited February 7 by mbd39

[Gaia Gensouki | 1,079]

I didn't know that we were allowed to turn down the difficulty. I thought that at least normal was a must. I remember Burai Fighter being pretty difficult back then.

Anyway, I beat Demon Sword. It's very rough around the edges, but you can get used to the jank. The final boss however was really tough for me, so I had to farm a lot of those red orbs that refill your health. After a while normal enemies don't respawn anymore and you have to fight against these pretty dangerous bone dogs that will quickly overwhelm you. I guess it's sort of like an enrage timer. But you can avoid this by walking around the level some more or by going through any of those doors. You have to fight a boss then, but once you do, you can go back to farming health power ups.

Also, sometimes you get a room with a big buddha statue in it. Usually there's a power up in hands, but sometimes it's seemingly empty. In those cases you can jump on top of the entrance to the left and slash at the wall a few times, until a power up appears. This will give you an extra live! I got this info from the strategy wiki and it was a big help. https://strategywiki.org/wiki/Demon_Sword/Items_(Demon_Sword)

[guitarzombie | 927]

I thought that I read that the developers put in the ABBA code for Ikari Warriors on purpose for people to actually find accidentally out of frustration.  I can't remember where but I know I didn't just make that up.

Finished Burai Fighter on easy.  Didn't take me that long but man that final boss takes a LOT of hits even on easy!

[nerdynebraskan | 356]

Ninja Crusaders is done.

[Gaia Gensouki | 1,079]

I tried my hands at Time Lord, but I can't beat the boss in the wild west level. Somehow this dude can take an insane amount of bullet and just won't die. I even lost my patience and tried with save states, but even after getting the in-game timer to July this dude just doesn't die. Does he maybe regenerate health and you need to shoot as fast as if you had a turbo controller?

[Khromak | 770]

IDK about any regenerating mechanic, but he definitely has a metric ton of health. Maybe you're spending too much time dodging? I was just standing still shooting at him the whole time since if enemies are being hit they can't damage you. The timing for this can be tough though and sometimes they will hit you when it seems unfair that they should hit you.

That's only the start of the torture with that game though, the WW1/WW2 level was brutal for me and what made me quit the game last year. I spent many, many lives trying to do a couple of those objectives and eventually decided it wasn't worth my stress for the points lol.

GL with it, I probably won't attempt it again any time soon, though I'd eventually like to tackle it, maybe with some save state practicing...

[Crabmaster2000 | 502]

3 hours ago, Gaia Gensouki said:

I tried my hands at Time Lord, but I can't beat the boss in the wild west level. Somehow this dude can take an insane amount of bullet and just won't die. I even lost my patience and tried with save states, but even after getting the in-game timer to July this dude just doesn't die. Does he maybe regenerate health and you need to shoot as fast as if you had a turbo controller?

He absolutely regenerates his health and does it SUPER fast. If you can button mashing quick enough he's a 2 second fight. If you give him any time to breath he'll fully regenerate his health.

Edited February 7 by Crabmaster2000

[bronzeshield | 293]

Star Voyager is done:

Picked it back up today after giving up my attempts earlier this year in frustration. This time I reset once about 4 minutes into the session, then made a second attempt and won with relatively little difficulty, despite having to search all 8 planets for the super items. I think the key to victory was a structural bottleneck that slowed down enemy progress -- I suspect that's the biggest factor in winning runs, more than anything else.

Edited February 7 by bronzeshield