Wreckage of submersible Titan found.

[Code Monkey | 2,011]

I'm appalled by some of the things written here. I imagine they would be written quite differently if you were forced to read them aloud to the families of the victims.

[Link | 2,715]

2 hours ago, spacepup said:

Moreso than the passengers, I think the CEO and company have a lot of blame in this, and clearly made some very bad decisions that put people's lives in danger.  Maybe the passengers should have seen the warning signs or made different choices, but the company sold a trip and seemingly did not take appropriate precautions, especially for something so dangerous.  I'm sure that in the coming weeks / months, even more will come out about safety signs that were disregarded.

100% in agreement here. 

No issue with the rest.

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

21 minutes ago, Code Monkey said:

I'm appalled by some of the things written here. I imagine they would be written quite differently if you were forced to read them aloud to the families of the victims.

Get off your high horse. The only person to feel sorry for is the teenager who didn't want to go. The rest of them knew what they were getting into and knew the risks. This is Darwin Awards material at its finest. 

[Strange | 1,700]

2 hours ago, spacepup said:

I think that is important to remember and discuss as well, absolutely.  As I said, I don't have *more* sympathy for the people involved in the sub incident.  I think both are tragedies.  The refugee boat situation even more so.  I still don't think anyone 'deserved' to die.

I definitely don’t interpret your posts as having more sympathy for the sub. But the valid concern for many is that there are plenty of people and entities who do have more sympathy for the sub. The media included. I think it’s very valid to be upset about that dichotomy and I don’t think it robs you of your humanity to be aware of that.

[spacepup | 2,405]

14 minutes ago, Strange said:

I definitely don’t interpret your posts as having more sympathy for the sub. But the valid concern for many is that there are plenty of people and entities who do have more sympathy for the sub. The media included. I think it’s very valid to be upset about that dichotomy and I don’t think it robs you of your humanity to be aware of that.

Tis a very fair point.  I get it completely.  There are obviously way more important atrocities and issues worthy of discussing and addressing, that don't get as much attention or discussion, and that is incredibly unfortunate.

I guess I believe one can be upset at that dichotomy, without saying things like they are glad those rich people died, or more 1%ers need to join sub expeditions, or "serves em right ha!" [sentiments I'm seeing in places, not so much here].

I don't really understand the *reveling* in people dying.  If there are issues more important to people, then let's discuss them.  Make a thread about the refugee boats, or the situation in Ukraine, or items that are important to people.  Let's work to highlight and bring attention to atrocities occurring that involve people with no choice in the matter - or people seeking a better life with no other option and suffering loss.  All that can be done without completely dismissing any particular individual situation of loss.

Of course there are lots of unpopular stories out there that we need to be talking about (broader scale / society, not specifically talking VGS here).  People with the passions for those areas should absolutely work to bring greater awareness to them.

[Strange | 1,700]

1 minute ago, spacepup said:

Tis a very fair point.  I get it completely.  There are obviously way more important atrocities and issues worthy of discussing and addressing, that don't get as much attention or discussion, and that is incredibly unfortunate.

I guess I believe one can be upset at that dichotomy, without saying things like they are glad those rich people died, or more 1%ers need to join sub expeditions, or "serves em right ha!" [sentiments I'm seeing in places, not so much here]

 

I’ve seen those types of comments too, yeah. But I also feel like I’m seeing a lot of attempts to equate the POV I described with being happy that they died (not from you or anyone else on this site). It just feels so disingenuous.

[spacepup | 2,405]

Yeah, I understand what you mean there.

Most of my frustrations aren't with things being said here on VGS.  But other comments elsewhere that are very very directly reveling in their deaths.  Not people pointing out the irony / inequity of what is being reported and what should matter to people.  Those complaints are certainly valid.

[Tabonga | 2,324]

I think it is erroneous to link interest in the story to having some overwhelming compassion for the deceased.  Yeah - it was stupid to be there in that contraption but the human race would be extinct if all people who did stupid things died as a result.  I found  it interesting because it was a mystery of sorts and as the information about the Titan filtered out it was pretty clear it had likely imploded.  It will just go down as an odd footnote in history,

I find it vaguely analagous to the mystery of the Mary Celeste.  While I feel sorry for whatever happened to the crew it is of more  interest in my mind to speculate on exactly what the chain of events was.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are always stories that garner  massive public attention for whatever reason  - when Timmy falls down a shaft of some sort and Lassie can't get him out there is likely going to be a story (no matter who Timmy is - rich/poor/in between, black/brown/white and there will be lots of news coverage and tremendous expense/effort to fish the kid out of the well (or whatever he/she got stuck in).

There was a famous case of a cave explorer named Floyd Collins who got trapped in a cave in Kentucky in 1925 and it got massive amounts of newspaper coverage.  The rescue effort failed and he died.*

https://blog.newspapers.com/the-near-rescue-of-floyd-collins/

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

The other problem is that certain stories seem to be largely ignored by just about everyone - even those who normally profess sympathy for people suffering for reasons more or less beyond their control.  Such as the Uyghurs in China - or this situation:

https://www.vaticannews.va/en/church/news/2023-04/over-50000-christians-killed-in-nigeria-by-islamist-extremists.html

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

*There was a now obscure movie made starring Kirk Douglas that was largely based on the story.  I haven't seen it  in a long time but it was one of Douglas's more interesting efforts IMHO.

 

Edited June 23, 2023 by Tabonga

[wongojack | 217]

There was a show about this once.  I think I have a screenshot.

[CMR | 521]

This was a tragedy, but I think there are more important things going on in the world.  This is just a distraction from those things.  It's easy for the media to latch onto because it's dramatic.

[Tenjikuronin | 1,738]

[G-type | 2,484]

On 6/23/2023 at 1:08 PM, spacepup said:

I guess I believe one can be upset at that dichotomy, without saying things like they are glad those rich people died, or more 1%ers need to join sub expeditions, or "serves em right ha!" [sentiments I'm seeing in places, not so much here].

Too many, the very existence of billionaires represent something that’s wrong with the world, so it’s hard to restrain that pent up resentment when they die in an accident that could only exist because of their incredible wealth and privilege, which is then compounded by the disproportionate amount of media coverage and resources expended for search and rescue relative to that of other incidents.

Edited June 25, 2023 by G-type

[Hammerfestus | 3,864]

 

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

6 hours ago, G-type said:

Too many, the very existence of billionaires represent something that’s wrong with the world, so it’s hard to restrain that pent up resentment when they die in an accident that could only exist because of their incredible wealth and privilege, which is then compounded by the disproportionate amount of media coverage and resources expended for search and rescue relative to that of other incidents.

Agree 100%, couldnt have said it better. 

[Tabonga | 2,324]

For those across America lamenting the news coverage and the resources* devoted to the Titan situation let's play a little contrast and compare.

When the soap opera that was the case of America's not-so-sweetheart Brittney Griner occurred that sucked up virtually all of the  oxygen in the media amd much of the American public's mind for what - 10 months?  God knows how many tragic occurences in Transylvania ((or wherever) - I exaggerate a bit but you get the drift) didn't get proper attention.  And I don't believe anyone totaled up how much money/time/effort the government put into this - and let's not forget  the freeing of a nasty criminal and whatever secret codicils the government likely hid from us.

While Brittney is not a billionaire by any stretch of the imagination she is getting a far far larger piece of the capitilist swag from society than I imagine anyone here (or most of the population) will ever see.  And she got put at the front of the bus ride home over other people (but  ignored by the governnent or anyone who does not know (or is related to) them)  currently incarcerated in Russia for far longer for much the same "crimes".   Princess got to go home but the commoners are still languishing.  

To be fair the Russians played the propaganda sob story masterfully - and the media and way too much of the public fell for it.

 

*If the goverment had copped right away to the fact that they knew what happened, when it happened and where it happened almost instantaneously most of the resources would not have been diverted to the search and possible rescue. Not to mention the widespread speculation in the press.

 

 

Edited June 25, 2023 by Tabonga

[Hammerfestus | 3,864]

1 hour ago, Tabonga said:

For those across America lamenting the news coverage and the resources* devoted to the Titan situation let's play a little contrast and compare.

When the soap opera that was the case of America's not-so-sweetheart Brittney Griner occurred that sucked up virtually all of the  oxygen in the media amd much of the American public's mind for what - 10 months?  God knows how many tragic occurences in Transylvania ((or wherever) - I exaggerate a bit but you get the drift) didn't get proper attention.  And I don't believe anyone totaled up how much money/time/effort the government put into this - and let's not forget  the freeing of a nasty criminal and whatever secret codicils the government likely hid from us.

While Brittney is not a billionaire by any stretch of the imagination she is getting a far far larger piece of the capitilist swag from society than I imagine anyone here (or most of the population) will ever see.  And she got put at the front of the bus ride home over other people (but  ignored by the governnent or anyone who does not know (or is related to) them)  currently incarcerated in Russia for far longer for much the same "crimes".   Princess got to go home but the commoners are still languishing.  

To be fair the Russians played the propaganda sob story masterfully - and the media and way too much of the public fell for it.

 

*If the goverment had copped right away to the fact that they knew what happened, when it happened and where it happened almost instantaneously most of the resources would not have been diverted to the search and possible rescue. Not to mention the widespread speculation in the press.

 

 

Did anyone actually pay any attention to this beyond periodically reading a sentence or two?  
 

“America's not-so-sweetheart Brittney Griner” what does this mean?  Because she’s black?  Or lesbian?  Or was it because she smoked the marijuana?

[Tabonga | 2,324]

4 minutes ago, Hammerfestus said:

Did anyone actually pay any attention to this beyond periodically reading a sentence or two?  
 

“America's not-so-sweetheart Brittney Griner” what does this mean?  Because she’s black?  Or lesbian?  Or was it because she smoked the marijuana?

"There are none so blind as those who will not see" - John Haywood - 1546.

Actually it was a reference to the fact that she did not engender universal support. I would have mentioned that she is black or lesbian if I thought it relevant.   And I was smoking weed long before you were even born - so I am not sure why you think that I would think it is of any relevance.  And I don't think she was popped by the Russians for possessing weed was she? (And if you can be bothered to read the whole post you will see I used "crimes" - why do you think I put it in quotes?)

Spoiler

Read into it what you will since you seem to have done that already.  Assuming of course you can be bothered to read this spoiler.

 

[spacepup | 2,405]

10 hours ago, G-type said:

Too many, the very existence of billionaires represent something that’s wrong with the world, so it’s hard to restrain that pent up resentment when they die in an accident that could only exist because of their incredible wealth and privilege, which is then compounded by the disproportionate amount of media coverage and resources expended for search and rescue relative to that of other incidents.

This isn't so much a response directly to you, but I feel like my point is being wildly missed.

I am not pro-billionaire, or pro-1%ers.  I do not "support" this event getting more attention than other things.  I completely agree with many comments about wealth disparity in the world and the problems it creates.  I understand the problem of privilege.  

My SOLE point, in any of this, is simply that I don't get any 'enjoyment' or feeling of gladness, that these people died.  That is my only point.

[Tabonga | 2,324]

25 minutes ago, spacepup said:

My SOLE point, in any of this, is simply that I don't get any 'enjoyment' or feeling of gladness, that these people died.  That is my only point.

Heads up!  Madame Defarge has her eye on you!  (j/k)

Edited June 25, 2023 by Tabonga

[FireHazard51 | 2,047]

1 hour ago, Tabonga said:

"There are none so blind as those who will not see" - John Haywood - 1546.

Actually it was a reference to the fact that she did not engender universal support. I would have mentioned that she is black or lesbian if I thought it relevant.   And I was smoking weed long before you were even born - so I am not sure why you think that I would think it is of any relevance.  And I don't think she was popped by the Russians for possessing weed was she? (And if you can be bothered to read the whole post you will see I used "crimes" - why do you think I put it in quotes?)

  Reveal hidden contents

Read into it what you will since you seem to have done that already.  Assuming of course you can be bothered to read this spoiler.

 

I also didn't get the "not-so-sweetheart" statement and I read your whole post.  "What about-ism" is not a good counter point to media coverage.  Arguing over what the news covers is pretty stupid since the answer is almost always, "it allows for more ad revenue if covered."  But if the US Coast Guard goes on a massive search for anyone, it'll likely make the news.  American news is very self centered and BARELY touches anything abroad.  Probably because there so much shit happening state side that there is no need to "fill the time" with a story in another country.  Listening to NPR and BBC Radio it's SUPER clear that if you don't live in America your news will cover a lot more than just what is happening in your country.

[Tabonga | 2,324]

12 minutes ago, FireHazard51 said:

I also didn't get the "not-so-sweetheart" statement and I read your whole post.  "What about-ism" is not a good counter point to media coverage.  Arguing over what the news covers is pretty stupid since the answer is almost always, "it allows for more ad revenue if covered."  But if the US Coast Guard goes on a massive search for anyone, it'll likely make the news.  American news is very self centered and BARELY touches anything abroad.  Probably because there so much shit happening state side that there is no need to "fill the time" with a story in another country.  Listening to NPR and BBC Radio it's SUPER clear that if you don't live in America your news will cover a lot more than just what is happening in your country.

Well now you know.  (At least you didn't (apparently) assume I was making a racist/homophobic statement.)

It wasn't so much a whataboutism as much as commentary on how news coverage if responded too  that commentary is dependent  on whose ox is being gored.  And someone wanted to talk about things not being covered because of other trending stories - the Griner story fits the bill well because it dragged on forever.

I can remember two other stories that also eclipsed other things.  The story of the Iran embassy  hostages played out forever with constant updates that weren't updates but reiterations that were told differently.

When Kennedy was assissinated the tv stations (most markets only had 4 at that time) played nothing but coverage of the related  until well after the funeral..  Virtually all of the kids I knew were bored to tears since tv was the only major media we had at that time - finally the independent tv station there started showing some cartoons - made us appreciate them a ot more!

 

There have been cases in the past where thing went on seemingly forever - 

[fcgamer | 4,732]

5 hours ago, FireHazard51 said:

Listening to NPR and BBC Radio it's SUPER clear that if you don't live in America your news will cover a lot more than just what is happening in your country.

Strongly disagree, maybe in some places but such generalizations are equally not going to hold true for a lot of locales too. You should check out the news here in Taiwan - it's primarily local issues, and believe me there's a ton of "slow" days with ridiculous filler.

[Tulpa | 3,520]

You know what's crazy? A largely forgotten 1980 movie had a scene about a submersible imploding while searching for the Titanic.

 

[Estil | 1,265]

That is so sad...and it looks like they made about the same mistakes that blew up the Challenger.  That sub implosion would have to have been beyond scary.

Edited June 26, 2023 by Estil

[CMR | 521]

12 hours ago, Estil said:

That is so sad...and it looks like they made about the same mistakes that blew up the Challenger.  That sub implosion would have to have been beyond scary.

Apparently it would have happened so fast they all would have died instantly.  Their nerves wouldn't even have had time to send the sensation to their brains.