Game Debate #150: Super Mario Bros. 3 (super cereal this time)

[Jynx | 140]

I think part of my problem when I play Mario 3 is that the world map is designed to let you pick your own way through the worlds, but even though I always say the game is too long and too easy, I always want to play every stage for full completion. I should try playing the game again soon and not playing every stage. It would probably be much shorter, though still easy.

Maybe players don't need to save if they just pick the shortest paths. I'll try that next time.

[cj_robot | 557]

30 minutes ago, Link said:

And Mario 3 was released well before batteries were "standard" in "long platformers".

Ok, but plenty of games had password systems, like Mega Man and Castlevania.

[Estil | 1,282]

13 minutes ago, cj_robot said:

Ok, but plenty of games had password systems, like Mega Man and Castlevania.

Well the whistles were sort of like a password system; as long as you knew where the first two were you could easily play in whatever World you felt like...that's what I did back in the day.

[RH | 5,062]

1 hour ago, Estil said:

Well the whistles were sort of like a password system; as long as you knew where the first two were you could easily play in whatever World you felt like...that's what I did back in the day.

And people did.  I feel like they distributed details for at least the first two whistles through multiple channels and not just Nintendo Power.  Finding those whistles in the first level were easy.  

[Tanooki | 4,975]

20 minutes ago, RH said:

And people did.  I feel like they distributed details for at least the first two whistles through multiple channels and not just Nintendo Power.  Finding those whistles in the first level were easy.  

He's right, as are others as that is what they're there for.  And you are right too.  Nintendo blew this fact out repeatedly.  Nintendo Power tips sections more than once, and then the obvious one, the shift to monthly where for four months they filled the off month with a guide, one guide being Super Mario Bros 3.  That one spells out and ruins/covers every secret from the obvious to the insanely obscure like the white treasure ship.  You had to have no magazine or no friends with a magazine to miss all three whistles.

The game is very specifically setup early on to queue you up for having the ability to survive whatever world you romp into by the mid-castle of World 1.  1-3 gives you a whistle, the castle then gives you a whistle.  But before that 1-2 gives you a shot at an easy 50 lives within the time limit just jumping on endless goombas right near the start if you have the tail.

 

And enough with calling the game easy.  It is not.  It's middle of the road with some harder moments.  No it's not Ghosts n Goblins, and it's neither Duck Tales easy either.  We're just being close minded and jaded because most of us here are old enough to have got it new or inherited from an older sibling as the hand me down console they moved on from.  We've got hundreds of hours on this game easily, that's why it's easy, in particular if you kept up playing it off and on over time.

[the_wizard_666 | 1,329]

13 hours ago, Tulpa said:

Wait until @the_wizard_666 votes. He'll plunge it down.

Honestly, I voted 4.  Personal taste aside, the game isn't horrible...but it's very overrated imo.  I think a 4 acknowledges it's technical prowess, but shows there's better alternatives out there.

Edit to add that I'm surprised I'm not the only one who gave it a 4.  Wonder who it was...

Edited April 21, 2023 by the_wizard_666

[Tulpa | 3,583]

24 minutes ago, the_wizard_666 said:

Edit to add that I'm surprised I'm not the only one who gave it a 4.  Wonder who it was...

cartman

[Sumez | 3,042]

9 hours ago, Brickman said:

Maybe you just had to be there but I don’t ever recall anyone complaining about there been no save feature in SMB3.

It’s a NES game, barely any games saved outside of RPGs. I think this must be a modern gamer complaint because if you grew up with the NES no one was talking about games needing batteries.

This place is honestly the first time I’ve ever heard people complain about no save battery. There’s a whistle or the SNES version if you’re really struggling with the game.

Yeah, it's not so much that the issue comes up at all, but it's kinda hilarious how much it comes up every single time SMB3 is mentioned on this forum particularly.

Like @Brickman I've never heard anyone complaining about it previously, and especially not back in the day.
Saving your game to avoid replaying stages you've already completed is a modern convenience to mitigate games you didn't really enjoy playing in the first place and just want to get over with.  

[AirVillain | 505]

15 hours ago, JeremiahJT said:

I gave it an 8, almost a 9.  I like the original Super Mario Bros. more, but I prefer this one to Super Mario World.

 

As far as leaving your NES on all night, I do not think I ever did that.  Outside of accidentally doing it, I do not think I have done that with any system ever.

You gotta live for once, man!!!

Leave the system on.

14 hours ago, Jynx said:

I think part of my problem when I play Mario 3 is that the world map is designed to let you pick your own way through the worlds, but even though I always say the game is too long and too easy, I always want to play every stage for full completion. I should try playing the game again soon and not playing every stage. It would probably be much shorter, though still easy.

Maybe players don't need to save if they just pick the shortest paths. I'll try that next time.

Yeah, give it a shot! You've played through every stage before so it's not like you're "missing" anything at this point if you don't play every level, haha. Just grab the whistles and warp to 8 whenever you feel like it. 

Or, sometimes what I do if I want to play a certain world is just warp to that world and play it. Most times I do this with World 5 because I love the Tanooki Suit and cloud levels. 

Rock me some Tanooki suits then shut 'er down. Whatever... if I feel like going to World 8 after that, cool, if not whatever, I've had some fun and I'm good. 
 

11 hours ago, Tanooki said:

He's right, as are others as that is what they're there for.  And you are right too.  Nintendo blew this fact out repeatedly.  Nintendo Power tips sections more than once, and then the obvious one, the shift to monthly where for four months they filled the off month with a guide, one guide being Super Mario Bros 3.  That one spells out and ruins/covers every secret from the obvious to the insanely obscure like the white treasure ship.  You had to have no magazine or no friends with a magazine to miss all three whistles.

The game is very specifically setup early on to queue you up for having the ability to survive whatever world you romp into by the mid-castle of World 1.  1-3 gives you a whistle, the castle then gives you a whistle.  But before that 1-2 gives you a shot at an easy 50 lives within the time limit just jumping on endless goombas right near the start if you have the tail.

 

And enough with calling the game easy.  It is not.  It's middle of the road with some harder moments.  No it's not Ghosts n Goblins, and it's neither Duck Tales easy either.  We're just being close minded and jaded because most of us here are old enough to have got it new or inherited from an older sibling as the hand me down console they moved on from.  We've got hundreds of hours on this game easily, that's why it's easy, in particular if you kept up playing it off and on over time.

Given the fact that the warp whistles were so easily available, and Nintendo freely told us about them (Peach tells you about the 3rd one IN the game), I think it's entirely possible that the save battery was left out on purpose/never considered. 

Also, the reason why I call the game "easy" is because never once as a child did myself, or my brother, or my friends, consider it a "hard" game. NEVER once did we sit around and talk about how hard SMB3 was. I can't even recall it being "difficult". 

Games like Contra, Punch-Out!, Mega Man, and Battletoads were HARD and we had/played/enjoyed all of those games. 

So... we were able to breeze through SMB3 and actually beat it when we were 10-12..... something we were NOT able to do with those (and many others) games mentioned. That's why I call SMB3 "easy". 

 

I think there's a huge clarification that would help this discussion:

1) Did Nintendo PURPOSEFULLY leave out the Save battery (assumingely to make the game more challenging/never considered b/c why the fuck would you do that in a Mario game)???

Edited April 21, 2023 by AirVillain

[G-type | 2,673]

 

[wongojack | 236]

11 hours ago, the_wizard_666 said:

Honestly, I voted 4.  Personal taste aside, the game isn't horrible...but it's very overrated imo.  I think a 4 acknowledges it's technical prowess, but shows there's better alternatives out there.

Edit to add that I'm surprised I'm not the only one who gave it a 4.  Wonder who it was...

We are on the same side here.  I don't really enjoy playing this game or this series, but I gave it a 6.  I can't really in good conscience give it a below average score because I recognize how much work went into making it a great experience.  It is just not my genre.  So, while I'd rank the personal amount of fun I've had with this game all the way at the bottom of the scale, I can't really say the game deserves a score below 5.  It is simply too objectively good.

[mbd39 | 2,041]

11 hours ago, Sumez said:

Yeah, it's not so much that the issue comes up at all, but it's kinda hilarious how much it comes up every single time SMB3 is mentioned on this forum particularly.

Like @Brickman I've never heard anyone complaining about it previously, and especially not back in the day.
Saving your game to avoid replaying stages you've already completed is a modern convenience to mitigate games you didn't really enjoy playing in the first place and just want to get over with.  

Super Mario World, Donkey Kong Country, Yoshi's Island, Kirby's Adventure, etc. are modern games? The convenience of being able to save was already becoming the norm for longer platformers by the early 90s.

 

[cj_robot | 557]

To tell the truth, I couldn't care less if SMB3 had any kind of save feature or not. I've honestly barely played the game in decades. Ever since Sonic the Hedgehog came out the following year, I found that game to be a far more enjoyable experience.

[patiently awaits permaban]

[Estil | 1,282]

2 hours ago, G-type said:

 

Oh wow...I feel very sorry for all the gamers who were not around to see this and the rest of the SMB3 hype.  I mean didn't it take almost a couple years for the game to get released in the US (2/12/90) after it's JP release?  Remember there was no internet in those days.  So this movie was quite literally most Americans' first and only preview of the game!  I still can't believe it didn't even get one Oscar nomination...   But Siskel and Ebert gave it two thumbs up at least...right?

[Link | 2,818]

 

[Tulpa | 3,583]

38 minutes ago, Estil said:

 I still can't believe it didn't even get one Oscar nomination...  

That's okay. It won the Oscar the previous year when it was titled Rain Man.

[Link | 2,818]

1 hour ago, mbd39 said:

Super Mario World, Donkey Kong Country, Yoshi's Island, Kirby's Adventure, etc. are modern games? The convenience of being able to save was already becoming the norm for longer platformers by the early 90s.

This is a red herring. Those games are on a different console except for the last one, which is long pre-dated by the other platform. 

[mbd39 | 2,041]

5 minutes ago, Link said:

This is a red herring. Those games are on a different console except for the last one, which is long pre-dated by the other platform. 

Do I have to keep pointing out that I'm replying to people saying that saves are a modern gaming luxury when they've been standard for games that are Mario 3 length since the early 90s? So what if it's another console? Super Mario World has battery save and it came out a year after SMB3 in the US. Wow, what a fucking modern game.

 

 

[Link | 2,818]

More modern? Is that a better distinction? If you're not backing up the notion there should have been a battery, I don't see that it matters. 

[mbd39 | 2,041]

19 minutes ago, Link said:

More modern? Is that a better distinction?

No, because I think the attitude being conveyed is that it's only spoiled younger modern gamers who think that SMB3 should have a save feature and us hardened old school gamers grew up just fine without it, and that not having save is awesome.

The truth is, SMB3 was one of the last such platformers to not have save. Soon after, Nintendo decided that platformers around that length should save. If everyone loved the no save thing then why wasn't Super Mario World made just like SMB3? Maybe SMB3 being no save was just a cost cutting measure and not a great old school feature to be praised, and that it would've been better with it, just like all the platformers that came right after it.

 

 

Edited April 21, 2023 by mbd39

[wongojack | 236]

58 minutes ago, mbd39 said:

No, because I think the attitude being conveyed is that it's only spoiled younger modern gamers who think that SMB3 should have a save feature and us hardened old school gamers grew up just fine without it, and that not having save is awesome.

The truth is, SMB3 was one of the last such platformers to not have save. Soon after, Nintendo decided that platformers around that length should save. If everyone loved the no save thing then why wasn't Super Mario World made just like SMB3? Maybe SMB3 being no save was just a cost cutting measure and not a great old school feature to be praised, and that it would've been better with it, just like all the platformers that came right after it.

 

 

I understood your point on the last page.  Just wanted to let you know you aren't crazy and you've made it very clearly.  Saves aren't just for "modern" games.

[Sumez | 3,042]

2 hours ago, mbd39 said:

Super Mario World, Donkey Kong Country, Yoshi's Island, Kirby's Adventure, etc. are modern games?

None of those games changed people's expectations towards smb3

[Estil | 1,282]

7 hours ago, Tulpa said:

That's okay. It won the Oscar the previous year when it was titled Rain Man.

I don't get it...

[Link | 2,818]

of course

[Tanooki | 4,975]

Again I'm not saying SMB3 is hard, I'm saying it is a game with challenging parts to it, and also saying it's not easy either.  It's a middle of the road game with some ouch moments in stages (usually more the deeper you get beyond world 5.)  My point stands we're either all used to it, or mentally used to how we used to manhandle the game from 100s of kid hours at it.  it's not hard, it's just not easy is all.  That's why you didn't get kids complaining it was a hard mean game, but they sure did moan about various parts just being a pain or getting stuck.  Enough of world 7 is as bad or worse than 8.