Game Debate #44: Metal Gear Solid

[Reed Rothchild | 9,526]

[spacepup | 2,404]

I gave it a 9, but I debated for a moment on a 10.  It's just a fantastic game with excellent music, gameplay, characters, story - I mean the whole package is just amazing.  It's definitely a classic game for me that is up there with some of my favorite games ever.  

I really enjoyed the NES entries that opened up this universe, but Metal Gear Solid just took that to a whole new level and did it super super well.  

I also enjoyed some of the later entries, PS2 and beyond, but I still just love the original MGS.  Fantastic game.  

[fox | 1,667]

Brought the stealth genre into the 3D world the same way Mario 64 did with platformers.

Engaging story and characters.  Solid stealth mechanics.  Fantastic soundtrack and voice work.  Graphics are a bit rough, but the art direction is good and makes it work.

[Gloves | 11,777]

11

[RH | 4,903]

I have never played an MGS title, but I've always wanted too.  This is a shame.  I should probably pick up a copy.

[Tanooki | 4,933]

I gave it an 8.  The writing, set pieces, atmosphere were excellent.  The stealth mostly worked pretty well too.  The game really sucked you into it, but it wasn't perfect.  The stealth got checkered at times, annoying really, and the controls at times, just sucked, camera too.  The later Windows port of the refined Integral version Japan had only previously got really made the game special, this is the version I had and finished, got the PS1 later and it felt worse.  Also I've got Twin Snakes, almost a remake how refined that is, so I can't base the review on that.

 

To me it's a shame most the later games were just kind of garbage, 2 was a let down, 3 wasn't too bad, but the one I really did end up finding pretty nice was peacewalker on PSP.

[kell | 102]

At the time, this was one of the best gaming experiences. Not sure if I'd feel the same way playing it today, but this goes down as one of my all time favorites.

[Webhead123 | 675]

So...here's the thing...

One must keep in mind that I did not have my own Playstation in the 90's. The only real glimpses I got of playing on the system was a demo unit that I regularly visited at my local Sears and a friend's console on the infrequent occasion when I'd visit him at home.

So, most of my experience with MGS was reading about it in gaming mags and (fortunately) getting to play about 30 minutes of the opening at my friend's the weekend that he rented it. I was always well-aware of all the praise it received then and since and I was forced to merely look on in envy.

When I eventually acquired a Playstation in the mid-00's, I managed to find a second-hand copy of MGS for pretty cheap and I snatched it up with the intent to one day experience it properly for myself. I finally decided to start that journey about 6 months ago.

So, I have to say...I can see why it was kind of a big deal in its day and I have no doubts why it became an instant classic with so many people. However, since I'm operating from the modern point-of-view, without any real nostalgia to build a crutch with...MGS has not aged well at all.

Honestly, I'm approaching the point of just giving up on this one because making any kind of progress in this game has been sickeningly frustrating for me. Most of the problem is down to the limited viewing angle/lack of camera control, the very fussy control scheme and a serious lack of clarity on how and with what parts the player can interact with the environment. Seriously, it took me probably 15 deaths and 40 minutes to figure out how to progress past the first main area after getting off the lift. Only to find out that there's a small, muddy cluster of black pixels that is apparently some sort of vent that Snake can crawl through.

Anyway, you get the picture. I appreciate the game but I can't say that I think anyone but the returning fans would get more fun than frustration out of firing up this one today.

6/10

Edited April 9, 2021 by Webhead123

[Sumez | 2,950]

I might have to replay this game again some time soon.

It's one of those games I remember as being pretty good, but every time I've revisited it, I've been pretty surprised by just how entertaining the game is.

I liked MGS2 as well, but since then the series has been going pretty rocky. MGS4 especially is a complete trainwreck. I wouldn't mind another game like MGS again.

I'm going to trust my memory on this one and go 8/10

[fox | 1,667]

@Webhead123

Doing the VR training really helps you get a handle on the control and mechanics.  The game wants you to play around with the different tools to solve each area, so there is a learning curve.  It isn’t really a pick up and play kind of game if you never played it before, you have to play by its terms.  You can’t see all areas at all times, so you really need to keep an eye on the mini map, seeing where all the enemies are and their cones of vision.

[Bearcat-Doug | 5,105]

One of the best games on the Playstation and that's saying something. 10/10.

[TDIRunner | 2,737]

10.  Amazing game and it still holds up well today in my opinion.  My only major complaint with the game was the forced backtracking to help pad the game length, but that was super common during that era.  It was always my favorite MGS game until 4 came out.  MGS 2 and 3 were amazing as well, but I never quite liked them as much.  MGS4 took everything that worked from the first 3 games and perfected it.  

Twin Snakes is amazing as well, but I still prefer the original.  My complaints with Twins Snakes come from the re-recorded voices.  I was super happy they brought back the original cast and used the same script, but unfortunately, much of the dialogue felt rushed.  Also, the GC controller was awful for this type of game.  This game is one of the reasons why I'm in the camp that hates the GC controller.  Lastly, while the first person view is an interesting add-on, it also sort of breaks some of the boss battles.  Of course, you could always chose not to use if if you don't like it.  At the end of the day, I will just stick with the original.  

Edit:  To clarify, my vote of 10 is specifically for the PS1 version.  I would rate Twin Snakes a 9.

Edited April 8, 2021 by TDIRunner

[captmorgandrinker | 1,649]

Never played it.   Almost did before I sent my copy to Gloves.

[Tanooki | 4,933]

1 hour ago, Webhead123 said:

So, I have to say...I can see why it was kind of a big deal in its day and I have no doubts why it became an instant classic with so many people. However, since I'm operating from the modern point-of-view, without any real nostalgia to build a crutch with...MGS has not aged well at all.

Honestly, I'm approaching the point of just giving up on this one because making any kind of progress in this game has been sickeningly frustrating for me. Most of the problem is down to the limited viewing angle/lack of camera control, the very fussy control scheme and a serious lack of clarity on how and with what parts the player can interact with the environment. Seriously, it took me probably 15 deaths and 40 minutes to figure out how to progress past the first main area after getting off the lift. Only to find out that there's a small, muddy cluster of black pixels that is apparently some sort of vent that Snake can crawl through.

Anyway, you get the picture. I appreciate the game but I can't say that I think anyone but the returning fans would be more fun than frustration out of firing up this one today.

6/10

You know if you look back to what I said (don't) just before your post when I hit it with an 8, your point about not aging well.  Age wasn't a factor, bad design oversight was.  The issues you bring up as being a problem there like the poor camera, the angles to move, tanky janky control, etc.  This was fixed in the version I was first exposed to, the Win9X/XP release which was the revised version of the game called MGS Integral that up until PC, Japan only got.   Not only was that fixed, they added in a first person mode to more accurately hug a wall and specifically nail targets with your weapon which is just so helpful and fun to use.  That muddy pixel spot, I recall what you're thinking of, I had the same problems in that opening space when I tried that version, not the PC one.  You know, Konami a few months ago put Integral up on GOG.COM for around $10 or less.  Might be worth your time.

It was criticized overseas, they took to it, and made the game better for it.  I didn't own a PS1 until 2001 when I got the combo unit when I was at Midway, and even then I realized the old PS1 game wasn't as good.  I'd have given it a 6 too based on that version, but I based mine on Integral which was the definitive version of the game, much like how FF7 was better in the states, so Japan got FF7 International smoothing out some dumb choices there too Square did.

[Hammerfestus | 3,844]

10. Duh.  Every part of this game was awesome.

[Tanooki | 4,933]

Found it, if anyone wants to grab this for $10.

https://www.gog.com/game/metal_gear_solid

 

Greatest version of the original game.  Don't own it?  Try and review.

[Sumez | 2,950]

8 minutes ago, Tanooki said:

Greatest version of the original game. 

No love for Twin Snakes?

[TDIRunner | 2,737]

8 minutes ago, Sumez said:

No love for Twin Snakes?

Great game, but not better than the original.

[Tanooki | 4,933]

11 minutes ago, Sumez said:

No love for Twin Snakes?

No I said it was great too, but honestly, it's more of a remake as it just doesn't play the same.  Visuals aside, it is the lesser game to Integral.

[AstralSoul | 502]

I never liked this game, never liked the series, but acknowledge that it's a good game. I see the value in it but it's just not for me, hence why I gave it a 5.

[asmikace | 68]

A solid 10. Even if it’s a PlayStation game with 3d graphics and later MGS games are more refined, the game is a classic with all the design and quirks that make the game fun and unique. 

[a3quit4s | 4,097]

I went with an 8. It's a great game but the real value in this game is it leads to MGS4 and The Phantom Pain which are straight up 10 for me. It's really not a fair fight to compare games across that many generations but this is the way it goes. 

This was written, produced, directed, paid for, and edited by Hideo Kojima

[Brickman | 3,984]

10 but would also go to 11 if possible. Psycho mantis is still one of my favourite battles in any game.

[Sumer | 221]

I gave it a 7...but haven't played it in close to 20 years.  I need to replay it sometime.  It may be notched up to an 8.  Definitely my favorite of the MGS games I have played...which is only 2 and then 3.  I can't remember really anything about 2, so not very memorable.  For #3, everyone seems to rave about it, but it just seemed too tedious to me.  I have played any of them after #3.

[TDIRunner | 2,737]

56 minutes ago, Sumer said:

I gave it a 7...but haven't played it in close to 20 years.  I need to replay it sometime.  It may be notched up to an 8.  Definitely my favorite of the MGS games I have played...which is only 2 and then 3.  I can't remember really anything about 2, so not very memorable.  For #3, everyone seems to rave about it, but it just seemed too tedious to me.  I have played any of them after #3.

I really recommend trying out 4.  As I mentioned before, 2 and 3 were great games, but I never enjoyed either as much as 1.  But when 4 came out, it blew everything out of the water for me.