Game Debate #44: Metal Gear Solid

[MegaMan52 | 2,440]

9/10 for both the PS1 original and the GameCube remake. The original's visuals are kind of outdated (though not bad for a PS1 game), but its soundtrack is superior in my opinion (especially the encounter/alert music, which absolutely should not have been taken out of the remake). Twin Snakes' soundtrack is inferior, but its visuals still hold up and I like that it has the added features from MGS2: Sons of Liberty.

[mbd39 | 2,017]

It might be fair to say that Metal Gear Solid was the first game to popularize stealth genre on consoles.

Computers had Castle Wolfenstein.

 

[peg | 370]

On 4/9/2021 at 3:27 PM, Gloves said:

Unfortunately I cannot simply ignore the errors in your post:

Otacon and his creepy relationship with his step mom.  Like seriously, what the fuck was the point of all that?

- Granted. xD

Ocelot having "Liquid's evil arm" grafted onto his body, something which takes over his entire body and even makes him sound exactly like Liquid Snake. 

- Ocelot was acting, in order to manipulate Solid Snake. He psychotherapied himself into believing he was Liquid, at least to a degree.

The ending where they reveal the patriots died 100 years ago or whatever?  Did they ever even address this or just brush it under the rug with a retcon?

- You're referring to two separate groups - "The Wise Men", who died around 100 years ago, and "The Patriots" (or the La Li Lu Le Lo) who were formed in the 1970s. The Wise Men were the original Philosophers, and held the Philosopher's Legacy. The Patriots were formed originally as a small group: Big Boss, Zero, Donald Anderson, and Dr. Clark.

I did like the ending of MGS4 with Snake and Big Boss, despite it making absolutely no sense at all.  The confrontation between the them was probably the only highlight of that entire game, and if the series had more of those moments and less "Liquid's evil arm" and "Big boss is a fraud" type bullshit those games could have been good.

- Are you referring to where Solid Snake goes to Big Boss' grave to commit suicide, only to be met by Big Boss himself after Solid fails to pull the trigger? There really wasn't much of a confrontation there, unless you count a really old man CQC'ing another old man, then giving him a hug.

 

1).  Liquid's evil arm is a fucking retcon, it was 100% originally intended that it was literally liquid snake taking over the body of Ocelot.  How can Ocelot be "acting" and somehow mimic his voice 100% perfectly?   It's literally the same actor that does liquid snake does the voice when the stupid evil arm takes him over.  It's fucking stupid and you know it, and even Kojima knew it was fucking stupid that's why they retconned it away with "oh he was just acting".

 

2).  The ending of Metal Gear Solid 2 specifically says that the Patriots died 100 years ago.  I was going off of memory when I made this statement so I figured I probably just remembered it wrong but I just went back and rewatched the ending of MGS2.  Snake specifically calls them the patriots ("Did you find the Patriots' List?") if you want the exact quote) and Otacon tells him they are all dead and died 100 years ago.  All of this is accompanied by a "shocking" music motif when he says it.  So yeah, another stupid Kojima retcon.

 

The first Metal Gear Solid had a pretty compelling story but Kojima had to fill up the sequels with a bunch of self-indulgent horseshit and plots that went nowhere or made no sense.

[doner24 | 1,195]

9/10 Second game I ever stayed home from school to play back in high school (earthbound was first). Haven’t played it since that time in the 90’s, but absolutely loved it, and it’s style of gameplay. 

[MagusSmurf | 577]

Spoiler

 

Ocelot was faking it in MGS4, sure; by that point he'd removed Liquid's arm and replaced it with a mechanical one so possession was presumably no longer actually possible.

I'm inclined to think the possession was genuine in MGS2. Ocelot being The Sorrow's son, it makes sense for him to have some innate talent at making Weird Ghost Stuff happen.

 

 

[tbone3969 | 304]

On 4/8/2021 at 4:42 PM, Tanooki said:

I gave it an 8.  The writing, set pieces, atmosphere were excellent.  The stealth mostly worked pretty well too.  The game really sucked you into it, but it wasn't perfect.  The stealth got checkered at times, annoying really, and the controls at times, just sucked, camera too.  The later Windows port of the refined Integral version Japan had only previously got really made the game special, this is the version I had and finished, got the PS1 later and it felt worse.  Also I've got Twin Snakes, almost a remake how refined that is, so I can't base the review on that.

 

To me it's a shame most the later games were just kind of garbage, 2 was a let down, 3 wasn't too bad, but the one I really did end up finding pretty nice was peacewalker on PSP.

Really.... I think three might be the best one ever.  I really like them all actually.  Love MGS and MGS3 the most.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,510]

1 minute ago, tbone3969 said:

Really.... I think three might be the best one ever.  I really like them all actually.  Love MGS and MGS3 the most.

Agreed.  Love 3.  Love 2's gameplay even if the story is off-the-rails crazy.

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

MGS with the gameplay/play-control of MGS2 would have been the perfect version of the game, IMO.

[CMR | 519]

MSG along with RE2, and Final Fantasy 7 made the Playstation one of the greatest consoles ever made for me.

[SpoonMan Abrams X | 697]

8/10

Man this is a great, wonderful game, but MGS2 and especially 3 did it way better. Still a testament to solid games that hold up more or less today.

Where is a MGS1 4k 120 FPS remake when you need it? lol

[SpoonMan Abrams X | 697]

On 4/13/2021 at 4:51 PM, arch_8ngel said:

MGS with the gameplay/play-control of MGS2 would have been the perfect version of the game, IMO.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_Gear_Solid:_The_Twin_Snakes

Ask and ye shall receive

Edited April 19, 2021 by SpoonMan Abrams X

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

54 minutes ago, SpoonMan Abrams X said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_Gear_Solid:_The_Twin_Snakes

Ask and ye shall receive

Fair enough -- that would be a nice refresh on the Switch.

[Gloves | 11,761]

[Deadeye | 1,595]

[Dr. Morbis | 2,088]

3 hours ago, Deadeye said:

Change "Metal Gear" to "Modern Games" and you'll be even more acurate...

[Ronmexico17 | 4]

I do love the original but there's too much hate for Twin Snakes.

The controls are way better as they are using the MGS2 controls.

The voice acting is slightly better for the sole reason that Naomi doesn't sound British (story wise never made sense) and Mei Ling doesn't have that stereotypical Chinese accent.

Cutscenes made Gray Fox more badass but made Snake way too superhuman unfortunately. I like that he's more grounded in the original

It's a shame that this version gets shunned harder than the Ninja Theory DMC game.

[TDIRunner | 2,726]

12 minutes ago, Ronmexico17 said:

The controls are way better as they are using the MGS2 controls.

 

Except that you have to use a GameCube controller, which ruins the experience for me.  

 

12 minutes ago, Ronmexico17 said:

The voice acting is slightly better for the sole reason that Naomi doesn't sound British (story wise never made sense) and Mei Ling doesn't have that stereotypical Chinese accent.

 

Yes, they fixed minor issues with the original recordings, but that gets overshadowed by the overall poor quality of the voice work.  If you haven't played the original, or if you only played it a few times, this might be easier to ignore, but for anyone who played it as much as I did, it's impossible to ignore.  

 

I'm glad you liked Twin Snakes, and obviously you are entitled to your opinion.  I just can't agree with it.