Heritage Auctions Thread

[tidaldreams | 654]

1 minute ago, OptOut said:

Honestly, I can't even tell if these prices are supposed to be good, lol!

I'm still buying sealed games for like ten bucks a pop over here, different world!!! 

 according to my maths its lost ~85% from its all time highs  i dont think it can go much lower than that

buy the fukkkking dip 

[OptOut | 8,892]

Just now, tidaldreams said:

 according to my maths its lost ~85% from its all time highs  i dont think it can go much lower than that

buy the fukkkking dip 

You see my recent XBOX purchase in my sealed XBOX thread? You would be SICK if you knew the average cost per game on that nice little lot!

[tidaldreams | 654]

i had to like triple check this thing to make sure it wasn't part of that boxed set

[OptOut | 8,892]

2 minutes ago, tidaldreams said:

i had to like triple check this thing to make sure it wasn't part of that boxed set

I mean those GTA: Stories games are pretty late release PS2 games, of a tremendously popular series!

Anyone spending hundreds or even thousands of dollars on that game, but somehow NOT aware of how easy it is to find this game in good, new condition, DESERVES to lose money, IMO!

[tidaldreams | 654]

oh can't forget about all dem gem mint 10s!!!!  

[Driftwood | 209]

 

[ExplodedHamster | 404]

Not much new,, mostly a re-hash, other than some of the Haspel stuff previously discussed here. The Haspel stuff has always been the worst look for WATA imo. Karl coulda pushed it back a few days and edited the pop report part, but my guess is it’s not really something he wants to highlight because it undercuts some of his prior comments.

As to the actual auction, you could already see the effects of the pop report. Batman took a bit if a hit, while the pop 3 basketball game prob went 3-4X what it would have two days ago.

Edited December 1, 2021 by ExplodedHamster

[OptOut | 8,892]

17 minutes ago, ExplodedHamster said:

As to the actual auction, you could already see the effects of the pop report. Batman took a bit if a hit, while the pop 3 basketball game prob went 3-4X what it would have two days ago.

Very good, this is the way it should be! Higher information buyers making better informed decisions is a massive step forward for the long-term health of this market IMO!

Let's hope this movement continues, for the good of buyers and sellers alike!

[WalterWhiteJr. | 1,169]

WE ARE BACK ON FOLKS. JIMMY HALPS DENIZ AND DEM WATA BOYZ WHERE WE AT

[WalterWhiteJr. | 1,169]

[WalterWhiteJr. | 1,169]

We need @karljobst and @Null aka Seth back up in here STAT

[WalterWhiteJr. | 1,169]

[DefaultGen | 5,436]

Got a cameo

[karljobst | 242]

4 hours ago, ExplodedHamster said:

Karl coulda pushed it back a few days and edited the pop report part, but my guess is it’s not really something he wants to highlight because it undercuts some of his prior comments.
 

Unfortunately the video had to come out today because of sponsor obligations. Though I would have loved to talk more about the population report release as IMO it's likely a result (at least in part) to the public's reaction to my first video. I'm not sure how it would undercut anything I said. 

I would celebrate and encourage any positive actions.

[Gulag Joe | 584]

14 minutes ago, karljobst said:

Unfortunately the video had to come out today because of sponsor obligations. Though I would have loved to talk more about the population report release as IMO it's likely a result (at least in part) to the public's reaction to my first video. I'm not sure how it would undercut anything I said. 

I would celebrate and encourage any positive actions.

This topic is by far the most reach you've ever had out of any video you've ever made. Who's sponsoring you to say these things about Wata?

[karljobst | 242]

2 minutes ago, Gulag Joe said:

This topic is by far the most reach you've ever had out of any video you've ever made. Who's sponsoring you to say these things about Wata?

My Wata video is my 17th most viewed video. Other videos have had far more reach, even in terms of gaming news. You don't understand how youtubers derive income from youtube evidently. I'd make far more money making several shorter videos each with sponsors than devoting a lot of time on one shorter video. Sponsors have no creative control over my videos at all, aside from what date range they can be released in.

[OptOut | 8,892]

12 minutes ago, Gulag Joe said:

This topic is by far the most reach you've ever had out of any video you've ever made. Who's sponsoring you to say these things about Wata?

Who's sponsoring YOU to suck WATA's chub all the live long day?! 

[Gulag Joe | 584]

10 minutes ago, karljobst said:

My Wata video is my 17th most viewed video. Other videos have had far more reach, even in terms of gaming news. You don't understand how youtubers derive income from youtube evidently. I'd make far more money making several shorter videos each with sponsors than devoting a lot of time on one shorter video. Sponsors have no creative control over my videos at all, aside from what date range they can be released in.

You didn't answer my question.

[MinusWorlds | 193]

30 minutes ago, karljobst said:

Unfortunately the video had to come out today because of sponsor obligations. Though I would have loved to talk more about the population report release as IMO it's likely a result (at least in part) to the public's reaction to my first video. I'm not sure how it would undercut anything I said. 

I would celebrate and encourage any positive actions.

Hey Karl,

The pop report was coming. It always has been. I’ve seen many people trying to give you credit for that, or saying high-end sealed/graded collectors don’t want it. As we discussed in the video we did, we’ve always  wanted it. It’s a key piece to our hobby and is a helpful and educational tool for collectors. I made it a point to call that out in our video. Every collector/reseller I know has wanted it. 
 

Maybe your original video helped speed it up, I don’t know. But, this is progress, and while not ideal, it’s a big step in the right direction. But, it was coming regardless. 
 

I’d also like to note that after watching your second video I’ve changed/tweaked my feelings on some of the actions of the Wata team. Thank you for this video, I found it very grounded as compared to the first.

[jonebone | 1,307]

51 minutes ago, karljobst said:

Unfortunately the video had to come out today because of sponsor obligations. Though I would have loved to talk more about the population report release as IMO it's likely a result (at least in part) to the public's reaction to my first video. I'm not sure how it would undercut anything I said. 

I would celebrate and encourage any positive actions.

Honest question here, are you actually trying to get to the bottom of anything or just looking to attack the parties involved? Because you are so pointedly biased in many of your accusations that it's a bit hard to watch.  Let me break down a few of the obvious ones.

Point 1) Valuing 100k Mario, Around 17:00.  You said the game sold for $100k and 10 days later Deniz valued it at $3.21M.  He certainly didn't, he just speculated that future values could hit that range based on an analogy of collectability, rarity and desirability.  You  immediately lead into Pawn Stars where he put a value of $300-$350k on it, so obviously you knew you embellished with your original comment.  And any of us in the market knew it had at least doubled by then regardless, so $200-$250k was certainly fair and reasonable.  So for one, he's not lying, it's just that you have taken offense to him being a value spokesperson based on his connections.  Yet you go here and are basically outright lying with the word selection that you so carefully chose I assume.

Point 2) NintendoAge, Around 27:30.  Who are you to know anything about NintendoAge?  It was absolutely a forum and marketplace first and foremost.  It had origins as a database but the daily active users (who which donated to the site for the most part, myself included), were there for forums and Buy / Sell / Trade.  A deal posted there was gone in minutes, yet we had to beg for volunteers to upload into the database.  We're not going to split hairs about what percentage of visitors spent there time where, but it absolutely was the socially connected marketplace for retro gaming. Other sites like DigitPress had rarity guides and bare bones databases too, it wasn't NintendoAge exclusive.  Though NA became the premier database site, it was not that feature driving daily traffic.

Point 3) Jeff Reaching Out, Around 28:45. You've made time to talk to all of these various social media personalities and youtubers, yet you can't make time to talk to the guy you're accusing over the last 3 months? When he's making himself available to you? Are you kidding me?  You have so many pointed comments and accusations toward him, yet haven't spoken to him, but have made plenty of time to gossip with various internet personalities.  This tells me you have little interest in solving anything, and more interest in blasting the people you've targeted.

Point 4) HA Wata Partnership instead of VGA, Various Times. The key factor you seem to miss is that the Wata cases were designed as tamperproof where VGA is not.  And I say that as a guy with 150+ VGA games.  I think the tamper argument probably affects .01% of VGA games and is more of a scapegoat scare tactic, but it is a valid criticism if you have a lot of money and no eye for authenticity.  Then you want to know you are buying an authentic product and a tamperproof case is a must.  Furthermore, anyone plugged into the scene knows that Deniz and Ken were experts in variants and NES collecting especially, much more so than VGA.  VGA was first to market and are definitely experts, but they have let fakes slip through the cracks and have made absolutely zero effort to innovate or market their product until recently.  Wata capitalized on that, took the marketing to a new level, made a better and more tamper proof case, and that was the motivating factor between getting their products to market at an auction house while VGA could not.  You can argue that it's money which is definitely a contributing factor, but that was not the causation as you imply.  Same applies to collecting.  Ask any collector what their motivating factor is and it's usually owning the nostalgic end items or thrill of the hunt.  You can argue that money is a contributing factor, but it's not the driving force or you'd just trade stocks / crypto / etc. to make money.  It's the product and nostalgia that you love, and here it was the tamper proof case that made HA align with Wata over VGA.

As someone who is plugged in all over the scene with experience all over, glad to answer any genuine questions you have that aren't just targeted accusations.

Edited December 1, 2021 by jonebone

[karljobst | 242]

22 minutes ago, jonebone said:

Honest question here, are you actually trying to get to the bottom of anything or just looking to attack the parties involved? Because you are so pointedly biased in many of your accusations that it's a bit hard to watch.  Let me break down a few of the obvious ones.

Point 1) Valuing 100k Mario, Around 17:00.  You said the game sold for $100k and 10 days later Deniz valued it at $3.21M.  He certainly didn't, he just speculated that future values could hit that range based on an analogy of collectability, rarity and desirability.  You  immediately lead into Pawn Stars where he put a value of $300-$350k on it, so obviously you knew you embellished with your original comment.  And any of us in the market knew it had at least doubled by then regardless, so $200-$250k was certainly fair and reasonable.  So for one, he's not lying, it's just that you have taken offense to him being a value spokesperson based on his connections.  Yet you go here and are basically outright lying with the word selection that you so carefully chose I assume.

Point 2) NintendoAge, Around 27:30.  Who are you to know anything about NintendoAge?  It was absolutely a forum and marketplace first and foremost.  It had origins as a database but the daily active users (who which donated to the site for the most part, myself included), were there for forums and Buy / Sell / Trade.  A deal posted there was gone in minutes, yet we had to beg for volunteers to upload into the database.  We're not going to split hairs about what percentage of visitors spent there time where, but it absolutely was the socially connected marketplace for retro gaming. Other sites like DigitPress had rarity guides and bare bones databases too, it wasn't NintendoAge exclusive.  Though NA became the premier database site, it was not that feature driving daily traffic.

Point 3) Jeff Reaching Out, Around 28:45. You've made time to talk to all of these various social media personalities and youtubers, yet you can't make time to talk to the guy you're accusing over the last 3 months? When he's making himself available to you? Are you kidding me?  You have so many pointed comments and accusations toward him, yet haven't spoken to him, but have made plenty of time to gossip with various internet personalities.  This tells me you have little interest in solving anything, and more interest in blasting the people you've targeted.

Point 4) HA Wata Partnership instead of VGA, Various Times. The key factor you seem to miss is that the Wata cases were designed as tamperproof where VGA is not.  And I say that as a guy with 150+ VGA games.  I think the tamper argument probably affects .01% of VGA games and is more of a scapegoat scare tactic, but it is a valid criticism if you have a lot of money and no eye for authenticity.  Then you want to know you are buying an authentic product and a tamperproof case is a must.  Furthermore, anyone plugged into the scene knows that Deniz and Ken were experts in variants and NES collecting especially, much more so than VGA.  VGA was first to market and are definitely experts, but they have let fakes slip through the cracks and have made absolutely zero effort to innovate or market their product until recently.  Wata capitalized on that, took the marketing to a new level, made a better and more tamper proof case, and that was the motivating factor between getting their products to market at an auction house while VGA could not.  You can argue that it's money which is definitely a contributing factor, but that was not the causation as you imply.  Same applies to collecting.  Ask any collector what their motivating factor is and it's usually owning the nostalgic end items or thrill of the hunt.  You can argue that money is a contributing factor, but it's not the driving force or you'd just trade stocks / crypto / etc. to make money.  It's the product and nostalgia that you love, and here it was the tamper proof case that made HA align with Wata over VGA.

As someone who is plugged in all over the scene with experience all over, glad to answer any genuine questions you have that aren't just targeted accusations.

I do believe your bias is clouding your judgement here. You completely overlook all of the obvious illegal activity and try to scrape the barrel of potential small inconsistencies with what I'm saying. Totally ignoring the point of the video. But I'll address some of these things.

1) Kahn did imply the value of the was in the millions. On pawn stars he did not value the game at $300k, he said there were turned down offers of that much (implying the value is higher) and the value 'had no ceiling'. Besides this, what he did was illegal. But in your eyes for some reason the exact dollar amount he put on it is more important than the deceptive marketing.

2) Other users and contributors to NA disagree with you. NA was set up as a database. The forum evolved and grew over time. It seems you have more issue with my lack of expertise rather than Meyer's obvious lies about what NA was.

3) I emailed Jeff a couple of weeks ago to try and meet up. He was on holiday all week and by the time he was available it was too late. I did make an effort to catch up. My effort was late, but it was there and we would have caught up if he was available. I can't 'solve' anything. I am not the FTC, or the SEC. What I am supposed to 'solve' in your opinion? It's not my responsibility, nor my duty to solve anything. I'm calling out illegal and unethical practices. Jeff talking to me now does nothing to undo any federal regulation breaches that happened in the past.

4) Heritage and Wata had an agreement upon Wata's launch. Whatever you're talking about in regards to Wata 'capitalising' on anything has no bearing. Heritage aligned with a grading company that had no history, or track record of grading games in the market. And Halperin was an investor, and that relationship was never disclosed. I just don't believe your story. Even if your rationalisation were true (which it could be), I believe Wata would need experience in the industry to prove that the product was good over extensive testing in the actual market before its credibility could be established. And not just the case, but their rating consistency and ability to run a business well.

You accuse me of just making targeted accusations, which is true because obviously I care about the illegal practices of these companies and that's the entire point of the video. But on the flipside, you don't seem to care at all about that, and just want to defend them over irrelevant, minute details.

Edited December 1, 2021 by karljobst

[jonebone | 1,307]

11 minutes ago, karljobst said:

I do believe your bias is clouding your judgement here. You completely overlook all of the obvious illegal activity and try to scrape the barrel of potential small inconsistencies with what I'm saying. Totally ignoring the point of the video. But I'll address some of these things.

1) Kahn did imply the value of the was in the millions. On pawn stars he did not value the game at $300, he said there were turned down offers of that much (implying the value is higher) and the value 'had no ceiling'. Besides this, what he did was illegal. But in your eyes for some reason the exact dollar amount he put on it is more important than the deceptive marketing.

2) Other users and contributors to NA disagree with you. NA was set up as a database. The forum evolved and grew over time. It seems you have more issue with my lack of expertise rather than Meyer's obvious lies about what NA was.

3) I emailed Jeff a couple of weeks ago to try and meet up. He was on holiday all week and by the time he was available it was too late. I did make an effort to catch up. My effort was late, but it was there and we would have caught up if he was available. I can't 'solve' anything. I am not the FTC, or the SEC. What I am supposed to 'solve' in your opinion? It's not my responsibility, nor my duty to solve anything. I'm calling out illegal and unethical practices. Jeff talking to me now does nothing to undo any federal regulation breaches that happened in the past.

4) Heritage and Wata had an agreement upon Wata's launch. Whatever you're talking about in regards to Wata 'capitalising' on anything has no bearing. Heritage aligned with a grading company that had no history, or track record of grading games in the market. And Halperin was an investor, and that relationship was never disclosed. I just don't believe your story. Even if your rationalising were true (which is could be), I believe Wata would need experience in the industry to prove that the product was good over extensive testing in the actual market before its credibility could be established.

You accuse me of just making targeted accusations, which is true because obviously I care about the illegal practices of these companies. But on the flipside, you don't seem to care at all about that, and just want to defend them over irrelevant, minute details.

I appreciate the response at least.  Let me clarify I'm not giving them a free pass or anything, I'm just not a lawyer and not qualified to speak on any of that.  But on the flipside, when you use fallacies in your logic or borderline lies, then that seems to be slander and libel, which civil lawyers could go after.  I'm all about transparency and facts, not as much about speculative rambling.  I appreciate factual points you have made, not so much the opinionated interjections.

Don't want to go tit for tat with you, so just a couple minor comments.  I had 25,000+ posts at NA and 1,000+ transactions, was easily in the top 5 on each category and a part of me died when that website went down.  Other than other mods or Dain himself, losing that site affected me as bad as anyone.  So yes, please forgive me when some youtuber waltzes in and tells me what that site was meant to me.  

Personal opinion, if you want to get to the bottom of something then you delay a video until you have spoken to the proper parties.  Not take a paycheck from a sponsor to meet a deadline.  Again, if you want to get some real informed opinions on something, talk to the people who are plugged in.  You seem dismissive of the points I have made, but to each their own and your bias is clouding your judgement as well.  I do admit that have bias from being involved in graded games, yet I collect VGA and Wata both (so I am not affiliated with one company), and I've been doing this for 13+ years with roots in ungraded collecting.  So I'm certainly not as biased as someone who only does graded, someone who only does Wata, or someone who just showed up in the last 2 years with no recollection of times past.

[karljobst | 242]

2 minutes ago, jonebone said:

I appreciate the response at least.  Let me clarify I'm not giving them a free pass or anything, I'm just not a lawyer and not qualified to speak on any of that.  But on the flipside, when you use fallacies in your logic or borderline lies, then that seems to be slander and libel, which civil lawyers could go after.  I'm all about transparency and facts, not as much about speculative rambling.  I appreciate factual points you have made, not so much the opinionated interjections.

Don't want to go tit for tat with you, so just a couple minor comments.  I had 25,000+ posts at NA and 1,000+ transactions, was easily in the top 5 on each category and a part of me died when that website went down.  Other than other mods or Dain himself, losing that site affected me as bad as anyone.  So yes, please forgive me when some youtuber waltzes in and tells me what that site was meant to me.  

Personal opinion, if you want to get to the bottom of something then you delay a video until you have spoken to the proper parties.  Not take a paycheck from a sponsor to meet a deadline.  Again, if you want to get some real informed opinions on something, talk to the people who are plugged in.  You seem dismissive of the points I have made, but to each their own and your bias is clouding your judgement as well.  I do admit that have bias from being involved in graded games, yet I collect VGA and Wata both (so I am not affiliated with one company), and I've been doing this for 13+ years with roots in ungraded collecting.  So I'm certainly not as biased as someone who only does graded, someone who only does Wata, or someone who just showed up in the last 2 years with no recollection of times past.

I am dismissive of your points because they are irrelevant in relation to the legality of Wata's actions. It doesn't matter if Kahn valued the game in the millions (which he did) or in the hundreds of thousands. Doing it for investors in his company without disclosing that is illegal.

Wata's actions in relation to the Carolina Collection was illegal. I don't need to speak to Jeff about that. Me speaking to Jeff is a courtesy, not a requirement for me 'getting to the bottom' of anything. 

In my opinion the difference between you and I is that I'm focusing on companies breaking the law, and your focusing on quibbling over the fact that I haven't spoken with Jeff Meyer, or whether or not Nintendoage was a forum or a database.

[karljobst | 242]

8 minutes ago, jonebone said:

I appreciate the response at least.  Let me clarify I'm not giving them a free pass or anything, I'm just not a lawyer and not qualified to speak on any of that.  But on the flipside, when you use fallacies in your logic or borderline lies, then that seems to be slander and libel, which civil lawyers could go after.  I'm all about transparency and facts, not as much about speculative rambling.  I appreciate factual points you have made, not so much the opinionated interjections.

Don't want to go tit for tat with you, so just a couple minor comments.  I had 25,000+ posts at NA and 1,000+ transactions, was easily in the top 5 on each category and a part of me died when that website went down.  Other than other mods or Dain himself, losing that site affected me as bad as anyone.  So yes, please forgive me when some youtuber waltzes in and tells me what that site was meant to me.  

Personal opinion, if you want to get to the bottom of something then you delay a video until you have spoken to the proper parties.  Not take a paycheck from a sponsor to meet a deadline.  Again, if you want to get some real informed opinions on something, talk to the people who are plugged in.  You seem dismissive of the points I have made, but to each their own and your bias is clouding your judgement as well.  I do admit that have bias from being involved in graded games, yet I collect VGA and Wata both (so I am not affiliated with one company), and I've been doing this for 13+ years with roots in ungraded collecting.  So I'm certainly not as biased as someone who only does graded, someone who only does Wata, or someone who just showed up in the last 2 years with no recollection of times past.

You are the expert when it comes to NA. You are the expert when it comes to collecting.

When it comes to marketing, endorser obligations. I am an expert. And on top of that, I've spoken with lawyers about it and done a lot of research. When it comes to my analysis on the legality of Wata and Heritage's actions I'm very confident. I'm happy to concede any less important point (i.e What NA was) because ultimately I don't really care about that. I brought it up in the video because I believe that Jeff was lying, and it was just to point that out.

[MinusWorlds | 193]

6 minutes ago, karljobst said:

I do believe your bias is clouding your judgement here. You completely overlook all of the obvious illegal activity and try to scrape the barrel of potential small inconsistencies with what I'm saying. Totally ignoring the point of the video. But I'll address some of these things.

1) Kahn did imply the value of the was in the millions. On pawn stars he did not value the game at $300, he said there were turned down offers of that much (implying the value is higher) and the value 'had no ceiling'. Besides this, what he did was illegal. But in your eyes for some reason the exact dollar amount he put on it is more important than the deceptive marketing.

2) Other users and contributors to NA disagree with you. NA was set up as a database. The forum evolved and grew over time. It seems you have more issue with my lack of expertise rather than Meyer's obvious lies about what NA was.

3) I emailed Jeff a couple of weeks ago to try and meet up. He was on holiday all week and by the time he was available it was too late. I did make an effort to catch up. My effort was late, but it was there and we would have caught up if he was available. I can't 'solve' anything. I am not the FTC, or the SEC. What I am supposed to 'solve' in your opinion? It's not my responsibility, nor my duty to solve anything. I'm calling out illegal and unethical practices. Jeff talking to me now does nothing to undo any federal regulation breaches that happened in the past.

4) Heritage and Wata had an agreement upon Wata's launch. Whatever you're talking about in regards to Wata 'capitalising' on anything has no bearing. Heritage aligned with a grading company that had no history, or track record of grading games in the market. And Halperin was an investor, and that relationship was never disclosed. I just don't believe your story. Even if your rationalising were true (which is could be), I believe Wata would need experience in the industry to prove that the product was good over extensive testing in the actual market before its credibility could be established.

You accuse me of just making targeted accusations, which is true because obviously I care about the illegal practices of these companies. But on the flipside, you don't seem to care at all about that, and just want to defend them over irrelevant, minute details.

Karl,

I don’t want to go down the rabbit hole too much on some of this, but Jonas (jonebone) does bring up some fair points. He’s also one of the most educated and knowledgeable collectors in our hobby. He has also been critical of Wata when he has issue with some of their practices. So he’s def not a Wata lemming either. 
 

I do agree that NA was first and foremost a forum/marketplace. I think you would have a very difficult time getting any of the regulars there to state otherwise. I 100% agree the data is valuable and it’s a shame it’s mostly unusable now, but it was never a pricing guide tool or a database first and foremost.  Heck, Jonas and I and many others poured hours upon hours into creating educational content there. We were gutted too. 
 

I also noticed the lawyer in your video uses a lot of words like “maybe, possibly, could have” etc. That’s hardly saying there were 100% FTC violations. I totally get the desire to shed light on the situation, but we’re a long way from subpoenas and hearings. 
 

I applaud you for trying to get it right. I do. I’ve told you that before, but you also need to understand that even “little” inaccuracies to those who built this hobby and live it everyday and know all the minute details are going to take exception to incorrect statements. No matter how small they seem to be.