jonebone | 1,307 Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 Gotta call this to attention, something I've noticed over the last week. Their Complete in Box prices are bogus on almost anything. Literally, pick any title you want and look at the price for CIB that it is quoting. Then go into the details and all of the recent sales will be much less. Complete manipulating, as if they are trying to implement some new algorithm that blends cart and Sealed prices. Complete example at random. NES Adventures of Lolo 3 CIB, shows as $121.94. Click into the details, last sales were $59, $69.99, $105, $74.99, $100 and the finally a $145. Bogus N64 Goldeneye 007 CIB, shows as $118.82. Click into details, sales were $59.99, $60, $68.24, $20, $75, $65, then finally a $220. Bogus again. They are completely manipulating the market here now. Do not trust this site anymore unfortunately. What a joke and what a shame. 4 1 2 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mega Tank | 962 Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 But, but, there has to be a logical explanation! Waiting for @Magus 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Morbis | 2,089 Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 (edited) There IS a logical explanation: they are owned by GoCollect, a douche (or number of douches) trying to use game collecting as a new speculative market to bank some major coin... Edited September 3, 2020 by Dr. Morbis 3 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonebone | 1,307 Posted September 3, 2020 Author Share Posted September 3, 2020 10 minutes ago, Dr. Morbis said: There IS a logical explanation: they are owned by GoCollect, a douche (or number of douches) trying to use game collecting as a new speculative market to bank some major coin... Yeah I try to give people a benefit of the doubt but no way here. They have modified the algorithm to heavily skew towards the highest sales point in the history of the item. It's a complete and utter joke. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedy_NES | 102 Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 It seems that for some (Cheetahmen II, Bubble Bath Babes), stated value reflects the highest sold data point from the last 5 years, and for others (like your examples), they are more blended. Can't see any consistency really, unless they implemented a rule if less than X sales, use single highest sale value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RegularGuyGamer | 2,013 Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 Just now, Speedy_NES said: use single highest sale value. I think the rule is just the second part. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedy_NES | 102 Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 I've also noticed that changes in their value calculation were not (always) retroactive, meaning that one really cannot compare month to month. Their graphs are therefore misleading. I also noticed that values (at least previously) took past values into account, which, for the aforementioned point, leads to skewed data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonebone | 1,307 Posted September 3, 2020 Author Share Posted September 3, 2020 3 minutes ago, Speedy_NES said: I've also noticed that changes in their value calculation were not (always) retroactive, meaning that one really cannot compare month to month. Their graphs are therefore misleading. I also noticed that values (at least previously) took past values into account, which, for the aforementioned point, leads to skewed data. They aren't even week to week! Why I'm noticing this, I priced out a list last week that I wanted to buy, was around $3500 from a seller. Seller went on vacation and got back today, priced out the list at $4600!!! Now I gotta try to explain this manipulation, ugh. What a joke man. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Startyde | 175 Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 (edited) 39 minutes ago, jonebone said: Gotta call this to attention, something I've noticed over the last week. Their Complete in Box prices are bogus on almost anything. Literally, pick any title you want and look at the price for CIB that it is quoting. Then go into the details and all of the recent sales will be much less. Complete manipulating, as if they are trying to implement some new algorithm that blends cart and Sealed prices. Complete example at random. NES Adventures of Lolo 3 CIB, shows as $121.94. Click into the details, last sales were $59, $69.99, $105, $74.99, $100 and the finally a $145. Bogus N64 Goldeneye 007 CIB, shows as $118.82. Click into details, sales were $59.99, $60, $68.24, $20, $75, $65, then finally a $220. Bogus again. They are completely manipulating the market here now. Do not trust this site anymore unfortunately. What a joke and what a shame. Im assuming it's factoring in some predictor? I noticed something similar in collection tracker. You can add a game as new and its value is X. You add as VGA graded and it's now X + some even if there are no sales, as in it anticipates it will go for more if graded? Maybe some kinda extrapolation logic being used on CIB as well if complete. Edited September 3, 2020 by Startyde Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonebone | 1,307 Posted September 3, 2020 Author Share Posted September 3, 2020 4 minutes ago, Startyde said: Im assuming it's factoring in some predictor? I noticed something similar in collection tracker. You can add a game as new and its value is X. You add as VGA graded and it's now X + some even if there are no sales, as in it anticipates it will go for more if graded? Maybe some kinda extrapolation logic being used on CIB as well if complete. Yeah but a price site is supposed to give us data based historicals, not some bullshit algorithm that is predicting future theoretical value based on the highest recorded sale. What crooks, and of course, just sweep it under the rug instead of having the balls to call it out. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Startyde | 175 Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 1 minute ago, jonebone said: Yeah but a price site is supposed to give us data based historicals, not some bullshit algorithm that is predicting future theoretical value based on the highest recorded sale. What crooks, and of course, just sweep it under the rug instead of having the balls to call it out. Oh for sure, I guess my thesis is I thought people knew it was ding this haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePhleo | 2,185 Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 I said this months ago here on the forums, it might have even been on the GVN thread. it was plainly obvious. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePhleo | 2,185 Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 Also, let me add this: I’m tired of bringing attention to it, but when I bought my “Big Boy Game” (that’s a good substitute name) they had it listed at $30,000, maybe even $35,000. Then they switch the theme over and a week later it’s at $40-something-thousand. No sales happened between that time and I didn’t disclose my purchase price so there’s no way the market price changed between then. Plain manipulation. 5 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richardhead | 2,813 Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 Has anyone told Jeff about this? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RegularGuyGamer | 2,013 Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 5 minutes ago, Richardhead said: Has anyone told Jeff about this? I haven't talked to him yet. I'll let his mom know and tell her to pass it along to him. 1 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richardhead | 2,813 Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 4 minutes ago, RegularGuyGamer said: I haven't talked to him yet. I'll let his mom know and tell her to pass it along to him. Okay, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePhleo | 2,185 Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 This is really bugging me. Looking in hindsight, it was foolish to trust these kind of lists to begin with. Even with VGPC they had incentive to inflate prices and even had conflicting interests. But it never felt like they were blatantly inflating prices. I should be jumping for joy because the prices are going up especially since I have about 90% of what I want to keep in my permanent collection and a backlog of doubles I need to sell too. But instead I’m pissed off. Also, even if a competing website comes out with an open algorithm what are sellers going to use to begin with? Duh...the more we’ll known name with the higher prices. Total BS. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magus | 169 Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Mega Tank said: But, but, there has to be a logical explanation! Waiting for @Magus This was nothing more than a bug/unexpected side effect from a change made this week , and it was just fixed.......but continue to bust out the pitchforks and conspiracy theories lol. I should have noticed it sooner myself i admit, but tbh i am in the middle of buying a house and have been spread a little thin this week. There is no secret algorith of future sales or price manipulation. Take all 15 of the CIB sales from Lolo 3, add them up and divide by 15 if you don't believe me. You get $95.03...which is what is currently showing. This was fixed across the board, but if you see any prices that look "inflated" let us know. @ThePhleo If you want to PM me which game, i can maybe try and figure out what happened here and why the price changed as much as you say it did. Edited September 3, 2020 by Magus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JVOSS | 1,762 Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 This is why any price site is subjective the provide BS pricing to make them look good. i remember back when MTG was getting started and how SCRIB/Becket was do the same to the card values. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Code Monkey | 2,011 Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 It seems like I'm the only one that doesn't understand the problem here. Weighting is always used in algorithms, do you want them to aggregate data from the last 35 years of sales? No, more weight is put on more recent sales and sometimes you even remove sales that deviate too far from the mean. I'm not saying the algorithm they're using is totally correct but while you're trying to figure out where more weight should be placed, you're going to get some incorrect numbers along the way. Also, they're getting sales data from Heritage Auctions but it isn't displaying as a clickable sale result so there are sales happening which you cannot see. You can buy just about any game on eBay, send it to WATA for grading and then sell it on Heritage for twice as much so if you think a game is worth $100 and that's what it sells for on eBay, it probably sells for $200 - $300 on Heritage Auctions. A beat up (7.5), late print (oval seal, REV-A), opened copy of Mike Tyson's Punch Out!! sold for $2640 USD, you would never see that on eBay. However, if you go through latest sales on Game Value Now, all you have is eBay sold auctions for $300, they don't link to Heritage. After saying all that, it appears today they have committed the cardinal sin of annoying web development. They have placed a popover on every page of their site that doesn't go away when you click outside it. This is an inexcusable action and will be the sole reason for me to avoid that website starting now. That's way worse than manipulating sales data. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OptOut | 8,886 Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 Well, I know I don't get MY investment advice and top buying tips anywhere else! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Centroid | 79 Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 Well this thread aged well. 2 hours ago, Magus said: This was nothing more than a bug/unexpected side effect from a change made this week , and it was just fixed.......but continue to bust out the pitchforks and conspiracy theories lol. I should have noticed it sooner myself i admit, but tbh i am in the middle of buying a house and have been spread a little thin this week. There is no secret algorith of future sales or price manipulation. Take all 15 of the CIB sales from Lolo 3, add them up and divide by 15 if you don't believe me. You get $95.03...which is what is currently showing. This was fixed across the board, but if you see any prices that look "inflated" let us know. @ThePhleo If you want to PM me which game, i can maybe try and figure out what happened here and why the price changed as much as you say it did. I take it that no one in this thread asked you what was going on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Code Monkey | 2,011 Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 2 hours ago, Magus said: This was nothing more than a bug/unexpected side effect from a change made this week , and it was just fixed.......but continue to bust out the pitchforks and conspiracy theories lol. I should have noticed it sooner myself i admit, but tbh i am in the middle of buying a house and have been spread a little thin this week. There is no secret algorith of future sales or price manipulation. Take all 15 of the CIB sales from Lolo 3, add them up and divide by 15 if you don't believe me. You get $95.03...which is what is currently showing. This was fixed across the board, but if you see any prices that look "inflated" let us know. @ThePhleo If you want to PM me which game, i can maybe try and figure out what happened here and why the price changed as much as you say it did. Please make it so the popover disappears when you click outside it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloves | 11,783 Administrator · Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 3 hours ago, Magus said: This was nothing more than a bug/unexpected side effect from a change made this week , and it was just fixed.......but continue to bust out the pitchforks and conspiracy theories lol. I should have noticed it sooner myself i admit, but tbh i am in the middle of buying a house and have been spread a little thin this week. There is no secret algorith of future sales or price manipulation. Take all 15 of the CIB sales from Lolo 3, add them up and divide by 15 if you don't believe me. You get $95.03...which is what is currently showing. This was fixed across the board, but if you see any prices that look "inflated" let us know. @ThePhleo If you want to PM me which game, i can maybe try and figure out what happened here and why the price changed as much as you say it did. FYI this is not WCAG/ADA compliant: The white on yellow text is not accessible, and come Jan 2021 if GC doesn't start following WCAG guidelines they're liable to be charged A LOT of money for non-compliance. This will vary by country and indeed state in the US, but here in Ontario: "A person and unincorporated organizations can be fined up to $50,000 dollars for each day the violation continues. A corporation that does not comply can be fined up to $100,000 per day. Directors and officers of a corporation with fiduciary responsibility are liable for a fine of up to $50,000 a day." All it takes is someone reporting them for non-compliance; charges have already been laid against various big brands over this in the States. 1 4 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austin532 | 467 Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 Does @Hogie have any say so in this or does GoCollect completely own the site now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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