American Politics / Current Events Thread

[RegularGuyGamer | 2,021]

He had remdesivir and another experimental drug that is in phase 3 which includes 2 antibodies for COVID. I think with the treatments available to him and how early he was admitted / diagnosed it'll be had for him to see the worst of the virus. 

Edit: he's also on high doses of vitamin D, zinc, melatonin and pepcid. 

Edited October 4, 2020 by RegularGuyGamer

[Tulpa | 3,579]

1 hour ago, Rhino said:

Do we know what Trump's real current status is?

They've been pretty cagey about it. I don't think he's dead or on a ventilator right now, but I also don't think he's doing as well as his doctor says he's doing. Too much contradictory info, and others are saying other things.

Apparently he had a big drop in oxygen saturation on Friday and spiked a fever of 103. He got supplemental oxygen at the White House before going to Walter Reed. He was close to "going off the cliff," which is COVID speak for heading for the really nasty symptoms. 

The thing with this virus is that it is wildly unpredictable, especially in the early stages. He's not out of the woods. The treatment he got is only to ease symptoms. There's still no cure, and he could suffer a repeat of Friday. If he ends up on a ventilator, it could be game over for him. 

And of course no one talks about the potential permanent lung damage that many survivors get from this. Imagine going through the rest of your life feeling out of breath.

 

Edited October 4, 2020 by Tulpa

[Californication | 1,490]

On 10/2/2020 at 1:32 PM, Tulpa said:

He had the world watching when Wallace asked him point blank to condemn those groups and he whiffed. Doesn't speak highly of him.

I have heard something similar on the news. I think Brian Kilmeade called it a whiff. My critique is that when I think of "whiff" I think it implies a failure in trying to do something akin to an accident. Trump made a calculated decisions to not denounce the hate groups when asked because he doesn't want to lose any support. So based on Trump's decision, he was successful because he did the opposite of lose support, he excited the hate groups.

Edited October 4, 2020 by Californication

[Californication | 1,490]

On 10/1/2020 at 10:21 AM, RegularGuyGamer said:

Yeah I definitely agree with your statement. They are young movements but radical nine the less. John Brown Gun Club was doing armed patrol of the CHAZ and they are ANTIFA idealist (? idk words). 

However, to say ANTIFA isn't specific enough is still a silly notion. Everyone who follows politics knows the sentiment that is being put forth, just like white nationalist, and is really arguing semantics instead of the issue.

The issue is there are fringe groups on the right and left that oppose the center's ideas of what life in this country should look like. They should both be condemed and labeled as threats. 

Only one side murders people year after year and the FBI only named one side an impending threat. To equate the two sides is not fair or  rational.

[RegularGuyGamer | 2,021]

20 minutes ago, Californication said:

Only one side murders people year after year and the FBI only named one side an impending threat. To equate the two sides is not fair or  rational.

You don't think anyone committed a murder this year who possessed the ideals of ANTIFA or belong to an organization that operated under the framework of ANTIFA?

Edit: and I'm not equating the two. That is a logical fallacy. Two things can both be bad and one be worse.

Hurricanes and tornadoes are both bad natural disasters. Hurricanes cause more damage but that doesn't mean you should ignore the threat loses by tornadoes. 

Edited October 4, 2020 by RegularGuyGamer

[Californication | 1,490]

32 minutes ago, RegularGuyGamer said:

You don't think anyone committed a murder this year who possessed the ideals of ANTIFA or belong to an organization that operated under the framework of ANTIFA?

I'm sure they have. There was the one guy that the police went and murdered who had killed somebody, not sure if he was actually Antifa or if he killed to defend himself, but I think he was. 

My point is that White hate groups kill people on a regular basis, year after year. In 2018 every domestic terrorist attack was linked to a white hate group.

The other big difference is Antifa is more of an idea than a group. There is no leader, ranking, or structure, it is not an organization, it is people who say they don't like fascists and want to oppose them. So each of these people is acting independently. And some may be more violent than others, but overall they aren't killing people like white hate groups are. For the longest time there were zero deaths associated with people who say they are Antifa.

These White Hate groups plan to murder people on a regular basis, they have a structure and create plans to pull off violent acts. People want to work their way up the ladder and commit acts of violence to gain recognition. Some of these white hate groups are becoming police officers and military to not only get the training but to have positions of power to exercise their hate. These people have long term plans to be violent.

Do you think the two groups are the same?

Edit: As of July Antifa was associated with zero deaths. 

https://www.voanews.com/usa/race-america/antifa-protester-implicated-killing-trump-supporter-oregon

Edited October 4, 2020 by Californication

[RegularGuyGamer | 2,021]

28 minutes ago, Californication said:

Do you think the two groups are the same?

Edit: As of July Antifa was associated with zero deaths.

I said I didn't. See above.

Also, saying ANTIFA wasn't associated with any deaths is observing them as an organization, which according to you, and others they arent.

So logically, if it is not an organization it cannot have murders associated with it. Which is why I worded my question the way I did.

[Californication | 1,490]

12 minutes ago, RegularGuyGamer said:

I said I didn't. See above.

Also, saying ANTIFA wasn't associated with any deaths is observing them as an organization, which according to you, and others they arent.

So logically, if it is not an organization it cannot have murders associated with it. Which is why I worded my question the way I did.

Sorry, I missed your edit.

When you said, "The issue is that there are fringe groups on the right and left that oppose the center's idea of what life in this country should look like. They should both be condemned and labeled as threats," it sounded like you were saying the sides were equal. 

Sorry my english was not good enough to correctly answer the question. That does not change the fact that the FBI, (whose job it is to protect us domestically) has said that Antifa is "an ideology not an organization." 

Edited October 4, 2020 by Californication

[RegularGuyGamer | 2,021]

43 minutes ago, Californication said:

Sorry my english was not good enough to correctly answer the question. That does not change the fact that the FBI, (whose job it is to protect us domestically) has said that Antifa is "an ideology not an organization." 

Not a problem. Its just that an ideology can't kill people since people are the ones who commit crimes. If a person who holds the ideology of ANTIFA kills someone then that death doesn't go under the umbrella of deaths committed by ANTIFA since they aren't label as an organization.

That is why the question was did someone who has the ideology of ANTIFA commit murder. 

Do you see the disconnect? It's misleading to say ANTIFA had no deaths associated with it since it's not an organization. Of course an idea can go around killing people. 

The wording is deceiving. But of course white supremacists are a much more serious threat, at this time and historically. There is a real sentiment to fight fire with fire from the left which does worry me considering the fire they're up against is responsible for the largest mass genocide in the history of the world.

That's why I genuinely believe both groups need to be taken seriously and condemned. People cant give any extremist groups an excuse. 

[Californication | 1,490]

3 hours ago, RegularGuyGamer said:

Not a problem. Its just that an ideology can't kill people since people are the ones who commit crimes. If a person who holds the ideology of ANTIFA kills someone then that death doesn't go under the umbrella of deaths committed by ANTIFA since they aren't label as an organization.

That is why the question was did someone who has the ideology of ANTIFA commit murder. 

Do you see the disconnect? It's misleading to say ANTIFA had no deaths associated with it since it's not an organization. Of course an idea can go around killing people. 

The wording is deceiving. But of course white supremacists are a much more serious threat, at this time and historically. There is a real sentiment to fight fire with fire from the left which does worry me considering the fire they're up against is responsible for the largest mass genocide in the history of the world.

That's why I genuinely believe both groups need to be taken seriously and condemned. People cant give any extremist groups an excuse. 

You lost me. People with the ideology Antifa may have one death assosiated with it as they were engaging in political acts. Why does it need to be condemned? Also your calling Antifa a group again isn't that wrong by your own logic? 

Edit: Wait a minute. Did you say that if someone who believes in Antifa kills someone the govt. media, etc. Won't count it as someone that Antifa has killed?

So you are saying there are almost no murders etc. associated with people that follow Antifa because of a loop hole?

Wow. Just wow. Lmao. Or it could be because they aren't killing people. 

Edited October 5, 2020 by Californication

[RegularGuyGamer | 2,021]

11 hours ago, Californication said:

Wow. Just wow. Lmao. Or it could be because they aren't killing people. 

Considering a man who gunned down one of the Proud Boys in the street identified himself 100% ANTIFA makes that statement false. 

There were several more those year and if you had the desire, they are easy to find unless all you do is browse Reddit and WAPO for news.

[Californication | 1,490]

2 hours ago, RegularGuyGamer said:

Considering a man who gunned down one of the Proud Boys in the street identified himself 100% ANTIFA makes that statement false. 

There were several more those year and if you had the desire, they are easy to find unless all you do is browse Reddit and WAPO for news.

Yes, I believe that is the same death I have mentioned multiple times.

You are saying they are killing people? Who have they killed list some names/locations with source. Conservative are attributing all kinds of stuff to Antifa including the California Wild Fires. It really does seem like the conservatives are projecting the murders, and violence associated with the Republican White Supremacists onto Antifa, but if I am wrong, I would like to know.

If I don't hear from you I am going to assume you didn't find anything.

[RegularGuyGamer | 2,021]

1 hour ago, Californication said:

Yes, I believe that is the same death I have mentioned multiple times.

You are saying they are killing people? Who have they killed list some names/locations with source. Conservative are attributing all kinds of stuff to Antifa including the California Wild Fires. It really does seem like the conservatives are projecting the murders, and violence associated with the Republican White Supremacists onto Antifa, but if I am wrong, I would like to know.

If I don't hear from you I am going to assume you didn't find anything.

I've seen them. I'm not here to win a court case on the internet. If YOU want to know the YOU can seek the information. It's also like, to be completely informed a person must intentionally seek information that goes against their world views. 

Again, you're saying that one is worse than the other, and it is but BOTH ARE BAD. You can smoke cigarettes and smoke crack. Both are bad. One is worse. BUT YOU SHOULDN'T SUPPORT EITHER. 

To say ANTIFA is ok bc they're not as bad as white supremacists aka fascist is not a logical statement. There have been several individuals that have killed in the name of ANTIFA this year alone. 

Idk why it's so hard to condemn a left wing extremist group. Sound familiar? 

It's easy for me to condemn both. That's the benefit of being intentionally on the center and reading extensively from both view points. 

[Californication | 1,490]

1 hour ago, RegularGuyGamer said:

I've seen them. I'm not here to win a court case on the internet. If YOU want to know the YOU can seek the information. It's also like, to be completely informed a person must intentionally seek information that goes against their world views. 

Again, you're saying that one is worse than the other, and it is but BOTH ARE BAD. 

To say ANTIFA is ok bc they're not as bad as white supremacists aka fascist is not a logical statement. There have been several individuals that have killed in the name of ANTIFA this year alone. 

You are pretty confident for someone that can only point to one partial data point. 

It is a fools errand to look for murders/deaths associated with Antifa because they aren't real. I wouldn't call yourself informed for repeating propoganda with no basis in reality. Really, you should probably do some introspection and try and figure out why you believe something with no factual evidence. 

You are treating both sides like they are similar when they are nothing alike. The problem with repeating this nonsense is that it prevents us/the public from putting pressure on the govt. to actually resolve the situation by putting resources into preventing these right wing terrorist plots before they happen.

Edited October 5, 2020 by Californication

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

37 minutes ago, Californication said:

You are treating both sides like they are similar when they are nothing alike. The problem with repeating this nonsense is that it prevents us/the public from putting pressure on the govt. to actually resolve the situation by putting resources into preventing these right wing terrorist plots before they happen.

You seem to be treating it as if you have to pick either extreme to support, but you don't.

I can support neither extreme, and still think that the government should be putting its focus into actively policing the more problematic of the two (i.e. cracking down harder on white supremacist groups).

[Californication | 1,490]

1 hour ago, arch_8ngel said:

You seem to be treating it as if you have to pick either extreme to support, but you don't.

I can support neither extreme, and still think that the government should be putting its focus into actively policing the more problematic of the two (i.e. cracking down harder on white supremacist groups).

I am responding to the situation as an either/or because of the paradigm that has been created by the federal government.

I don't give a shit about Antifa. I don't know anyone who says they are Antifa and I don't have any ties to Antifa.

My issue is that month after month when people go to the president and ask him about white supremacist violence the president changes the subject and scape-goats Antifa. My issue is that the DOJ is not trying to stop white supremacists but is instead going after the specter Antifa. The president and Bill Barr via the Department of Justice are making claims and expending resources after people who are not killing people as is being reported in conservative circles. And yet month after month, year after year, we have to read about more people from these conservative right wing circles are killing people.

Trump and Barr's false claims about Antifa are repeated and exagerrated on Fox News, Breitbart, Reddit, Facebook, etc. and conservatives and Trump supporters repeat these false claims never getting near the real issue of why we are seeing an uptick in violence which is the presidents support of white supremacy.

Then on the individual level, conservative voters hear the terms Antifa and White Supremacist synonymously and are less likely to feel ashamed for voting for people who promote white supremacy and violence.

 

[Kguillemette | 1,567]

On 10/4/2020 at 10:41 AM, Tulpa said:

They've been pretty cagey about it. I don't think he's dead or on a ventilator right now, but I also don't think he's doing as well as his doctor says he's doing. Too much contradictory info, and others are saying other things.

Apparently he had a big drop in oxygen saturation on Friday and spiked a fever of 103. He got supplemental oxygen at the White House before going to Walter Reed. He was close to "going off the cliff," which is COVID speak for heading for the really nasty symptoms. 

The thing with this virus is that it is wildly unpredictable, especially in the early stages. He's not out of the woods. The treatment he got is only to ease symptoms. There's still no cure, and he could suffer a repeat of Friday. If he ends up on a ventilator, it could be game over for him. 

And of course no one talks about the potential permanent lung damage that many survivors get from this. Imagine going through the rest of your life feeling out of breath.

 

It's reporting that he's going back to the WH tonight. He is saying that the virus is nothing to fear and we should all live our lives.

Of course, most of us cannot afford a 3 night hospital stay and many of those who can will not have access to experimental treatments.

[Silent Hill | 276]

48 minutes ago, Californication said:

2 hours ago, arch_8ngel said:

You seem to be treating it as if you have to pick either extreme to support, but you don't.

I can support neither extreme, and still think that the government should be putting its focus into actively policing the more problematic of the two (i.e. cracking down harder on white supremacist groups).

I am responding to the situation as an either/or because of the paradigm that has been created by the federal government.

I don't give a shit about Antifa. I don't know anyone who says they are Antifa and I don't have any ties to Antifa.

My issue is that month after month when people go to the president and ask him about white supremacist violence the president changes the subject and scape-goats Antifa. My issue is that the DOJ is not trying to stop white supremacists but is instead going after the specter Antifa. The president and Bill Barr via the Department of Justice are making claims and expending resources after people who are not killing people as is being reported in conservative circles. And yet month after month, year after year, we have to read about more people from these conservative right wing circles are killing people.

Trump and Barr's false claims about Antifa are repeated and exagerrated on Fox News, Breitbart, Reddit, Facebook, etc. and conservatives and Trump supporters repeat these false claims never getting near the real issue of why we are seeing an uptick in violence which is the presidents support of white supremacy.

Then on the individual level, conservative voters hear the terms Antifa and White Supremacist synonymously and are less likely to feel ashamed for voting for people who promote white supremacy and violence.

What percentage of violence, arson, destruction of property, etc. done over the last ~6 months has been done by white supremacist groups? And which of Trump's statements have encouraged these white supremacist groups to perpetuate the violence? 

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

34 minutes ago, Kguillemette said:

It's reporting that he's going back to the WH tonight. He is saying that the virus is nothing to fear and we should all live our lives.

If true, way to completely squander his last best opportunity to regain some semblance of credibility with respect to the handling of the pandemic.

"Oh, I just had a weekend of the best treatment available on the planet, and I still had to go on supplemental oxygen -- you plebes will be just fine".

 

I mean, I'm well insured and well capitalized enough to demand the necessary treatment if I get sick... but a "yuge" portion of his base is going to be shit out of luck if they are similarly obese or old as the president and get sick like he did.

 

EDIT TO ADD: and out of his inner circle that he decided he'd recklessly infect, I'll be genuinely surprised if Christie pulls through.

Edited October 5, 2020 by arch_8ngel

[CodysGameRoom | 2,009]

18 minutes ago, Silent Hill said:

And which of Trump's statements have encouraged these white supremacist groups to perpetuate the violence? 

lol

[Tulpa | 3,579]

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/10/don-jr-thinks-trump-is-acting-crazy-presidents-covid-joyride-has-family-divided

Something's brewing.

[Kguillemette | 1,567]

1 hour ago, Tulpa said:

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/10/don-jr-thinks-trump-is-acting-crazy-presidents-covid-joyride-has-family-divided

Something's brewing.

He'll get back in line and deny this report. Nothing will come from this.

[Rhino | 105]

7 hours ago, Californication said:

You are pretty confident for someone that can only point to one partial data point. 

It is a fools errand to look for murders/deaths associated with Antifa because they aren't real. I wouldn't call yourself informed for repeating propoganda with no basis in reality. Really, you should probably do some introspection and try and figure out why you believe something with no factual evidence. 

You are treating both sides like they are similar when they are nothing alike. The problem with repeating this nonsense is that it prevents us/the public from putting pressure on the govt. to actually resolve the situation by putting resources into preventing these right wing terrorist plots before they happen.

I'll just leave this right here for anyone who thinks there aren't left wing terrorists. 

Between 2010 and 2016, 53 percent of terrorist attacks in the United States were carried out by religious extremists — 35 percent by right-wing extremists and 12 percent by left-wing or environmentalist extremists, according to a University of Maryland-led consortium that studies terrorism. https://www.nytimes.com/article/what-antifa-trump.html

 

[Californication | 1,490]

12 hours ago, Rhino said:

I'll just leave this right here for anyone who thinks there aren't left wing terrorists. 

Between 2010 and 2016, 53 percent of terrorist attacks in the United States were carried out by religious extremists — 35 percent by right-wing extremists and 12 percent by left-wing or environmentalist extremists, according to a University of Maryland-led consortium that studies terrorism. https://www.nytimes.com/article/what-antifa-trump.html

 

And since Antifa started in 2017 that report is completly irrelevant with the conversation which is violence from Antifa.

Edit: If you are trying to make a point about non-Antifa related left wing violence v. right wing violence this report is not proving your point. 

1. They are calling anti-abortion terrorism - "religious" terrorism and not right wing terrorism. So they are dividing right wing terrorism to make it look smaller, then;

2. Their terrorist attack data points include "Threatened use of violence." I've never heard of a non-violent terrorist attack before.

Edited October 6, 2020 by Californication

[Hammerfestus | 3,963]