Super Mario RPG... tOo HaRd?!?

[cj_robot | 543]

So I just learned that the new Super Mario RPG remake will have a new easy mode (called "Breezy"), and it just got me thinking.

I know that Easy Modes in video games has become somewhat of a contentious issue amongst gamers lately. I've seen people get downright nasty on both sides when talking about whether Dark Souls should or should not have one. Personally, including a seperate mode that I'm likely never going to touch doesn't bother me at all.

I'm just starting to wonder why people play video games at all, though. If I just want a story, there's plenty of more accessible options for that. I play games because I want to do something: conquer a challenge, solve a puzzle, outsmart or outperform my opponents, use my skills, use my reflexes, use my brain, etc. I don't get that at all when the stakes are zero and challenge is non-existent. It's a completely empty experience. It's not even like SMRPG was a difficult game to begin with.

Again, I have no problem with the option being there... I just don't understand why anyone would bother using it.

Thoughts?

[fox | 1,668]

It’s not for you and that is ok.

You know every game that comes out is going to be somebody’s first.  Going to be the first rpg for a lot of people, maybe the first Mario game for them too.

How many kids saw that Mario movie and are going to be opening this Christmas morning and this is going to be their gateway to Mario and/or RPGs?  Gotta learn to walk before you can run.

On the flip side, Maybe there will be a hard mode or NG+ for seasoned fans.

[a3quit4s | 4,103]

I play games on easy sometimes. I like playing games but I don't have the luxury of being stuck on a level or area for hours on end. Plus sometimes a game being overly frustrating will deter me from playing an otherwise great game. Elden Ring for example, a shinning example of what games should strive to be, played it probably 10 hours. Don’t have several hours in a sitting to learn a boss battle and execute it to perfection. 

If you play on hard and I play on easy and we both beat the game, why are you more satisfied? I still get a feeling of accomplishment and have gotten a good experience. I’m more for everyone should play whatever and however they want. Who cares and maybe you should consider why your getting hung up on it. 

[DefaultGen | 5,414]

I think difficulty settings can be a problem. Metal Gear Solid 2 has six difficulty settings. How on Earth is any player supposed to pick the correct difficulty? Even just adding an easy mode to SMRPG can lead to people making the wrong choice. I heard the boomers say this was a "retro game", does that mean this is "Nintendo hard?" I don't have time to play a hardcore SNES RPG like Wizardry V, I better set it to breezy mode. Those old games were all so poorly designed!

When Mulholland Drive came out, no one said "Man, they need to release a cut of the film that my mom can understand to make it more accessible!". They just went to see Ocean's Eleven because there's unlimited choice in media. I think Mulholland Drive would be perhaps a lesser work if it was released with "Film Bro", "Average Moviegoer", and "Mom Mode" difficulty settings rather than the singular cut it was intended to have.

Like whatever who cares if a Nintendo game has an easy mode and SMRPG isn't Mulholland Drive but difficulty settings are still BS. If your game is a laid back action movie, make a laid back action movie. If it's a plodding third person shooter, make a plodding third person shooter. Why am I going to have to pick my difficulty setting when I play Uncharted 5? Just be whatever the best you is.

Edited November 8, 2023 by DefaultGen

[OptOut | 8,889]

19 minutes ago, DefaultGen said:

I think difficulty settings can be a problem. Metal Gear Solid 2 has six difficulty settings. How on Earth is any player supposed to pick the correct difficulty? Even just adding an easy mode to SMRPG can lead to people making the wrong choice. I heard the boomers say this was a "retro game", does that mean this is "Nintendo hard?" I don't have time to play a hardcore SNES RPG like Wizardry V, I better set it to breezy mode. Those old games were all so poorly designed!

When Mulholland Drive came out, no one said "Man, they need to release a cut of the film that my mom can understand to make it more accessible!". They just went to see Ocean's Eleven because there's unlimited choice in media. I think Mulholland Drive would be perhaps a lesser work if it was released with "Film Bro", "Average Moviegoer", and "Mom Mode" difficulty settings rather than the singular cut it was intended to have.

Like whatever who cares if a Nintendo game has an easy mode and SMRPG isn't Mulholland Drive but difficulty settings are still BS. If your game is a laid back action movie, make a laid back action movie. If it's a plodding third person shooter, make a plodding third person shooter. Why am I going to have to pick my difficulty setting when I play Uncharted 5? Just be whatever the best you is.

Just play on normal. 

[DefaultGen | 5,414]

4 minutes ago, OptOut said:

Just play on normal. 

As everyone should

[Brickman | 3,995]

32 minutes ago, DefaultGen said:

I think difficulty settings can be a problem. Metal Gear Solid 2 has six difficulty settings. How on Earth is any player supposed to pick the correct difficulty? Even just adding an easy mode to SMRPG can lead to people making the wrong choice. I heard the boomers say this was a "retro game", does that mean this is "Nintendo hard?" I don't have time to play a hardcore SNES RPG like Wizardry V, I better set it to breezy mode. Those old games were all so poorly designed!

When Mulholland Drive came out, no one said "Man, they need to release a cut of the film that my mom can understand to make it more accessible!". They just went to see Ocean's Eleven because there's unlimited choice in media. I think Mulholland Drive would be perhaps a lesser work if it was released with "Film Bro", "Average Moviegoer", and "Mom Mode" difficulty settings rather than the singular cut it was intended to have.

Like whatever who cares if a Nintendo game has an easy mode and SMRPG isn't Mulholland Drive but difficulty settings are still BS. If your game is a laid back action movie, make a laid back action movie. If it's a plodding third person shooter, make a plodding third person shooter. Why am I going to have to pick my difficulty setting when I play Uncharted 5? Just be whatever the best you is.

I read this in a classic Defaultgen rant mode and it made me laugh.

[OptOut | 8,889]

17 minutes ago, DefaultGen said:

As everyone should

Alright, Hitler, whatever you say. 

[TDIRunner | 2,744]

Sometimes I play games for the challenge.  Sometimes I do it because it's easy and relaxing.  I just finished playing through Captain Toad Treasure Tracker.  That is a relatively easy game to complete (meaning finish each level).  However, it's fairly challenging to complete all of the collectables and bonus objectives.  With this game, I decided to go for the challenging part and I ended up completing that except for the final two levels that I'm still working on.  For this game, I wasn't interested in an "easy mode."

However, sometimes I want to play through a long game and I don't want the challenge.  Since Super Mario RPG is a longer RPG, I would be less interested in the challenge, and more interested in the story and moving through the game.  I don't know yet if I will need the "easy mode" in Mario RPG, but if I find myself losing a lot and having to go back and play through the same areas over and over again, I will select Breezy and not think twice about it.  

I like having the option.  Sometimes I pick it and sometimes I don't.  

[RegularGuyGamer | 2,013]

Is there any grinding involved? It's gotta be bc 4 year olds are going to get it for Christmas when their aunt sees their gran got them Mario Wonder already. 

[jonebone | 1,307]

Surely you jest

[Bearcat-Doug | 5,105]

13 hours ago, a3quit4s said:

I play games on easy sometimes. I like playing games but I don't have the luxury of being stuck on a level or area for hours on end. Plus sometimes a game being overly frustrating will deter me from playing an otherwise great game. Elden Ring for example, a shinning example of what games should strive to be, played it probably 10 hours. Don’t have several hours in a sitting to learn a boss battle and execute it to perfection. 

If you play on hard and I play on easy and we both beat the game, why are you more satisfied? I still get a feeling of accomplishment and have gotten a good experience. I’m more for everyone should play whatever and however they want. Who cares and maybe you should consider why your getting hung up on it. 

Same here. I'll play on easy mode if I just want to play a casual game, but if I really like the game and want a challenge, then I'll up the difficulty.

[Tanooki | 4,939]

14 hours ago, cj_robot said:

So I just learned that the new Super Mario RPG remake will have a new easy mode (called "Breezy"), and it just got me thinking.

I know that Easy Modes in video games has become somewhat of a contentious issue amongst gamers lately. I've seen people get downright nasty on both sides when talking about whether Dark Souls should or should not have one. Personally, including a seperate mode that I'm likely never going to touch doesn't bother me at all.

I'm just starting to wonder why people play video games at all, though. If I just want a story, there's plenty of more accessible options for that. I play games because I want to do something: conquer a challenge, solve a puzzle, outsmart or outperform my opponents, use my skills, use my reflexes, use my brain, etc. I don't get that at all when the stakes are zero and challenge is non-existent. It's a completely empty experience. It's not even like SMRPG was a difficult game to begin with.

Again, I have no problem with the option being there... I just don't understand why anyone would bother using it.

Thoughts?

1) I've not seen people get a raging fit over that, I mean I can get why, but to be so utterly selfish with Dark Souls to not even allow it to be considered seems even more wrong.  Maybe someone wants to do the moves for the story and some interaction but not have a 3D ghosts n goblins nightmare, more of a chiller but not basic baby version of like Uncharted.  I'd be 100% on board with that.  Sometimes you're in the mood, largely when it's that bad, you're not.

2) Easy mode is fine if it doesn't harm the actual game, have it like the old EASY toggle in NES games Option menu, or setting lv 1-3 instead of default 4 in a MVS or SF2/Capcom style fighting game, no harm in it.

There's the point, you want a challenge, but one persons challenge is anothers cake walk.  Some people say like me, can't handle the scripted linear lame logic most advance wars/nectaris/fftactics/ogre battle games have and you just lose because you didn't do A B C in order over a 2-3hr set of turns...F'that, but others have this steel trap mind where even on max difficulty that's fun and not a hellscape.  Same with Street Fighter II, many are fine against the default AI, some get worked even at Lv1-2, and others find 7(max) bullshit, and need an unpredictable human of similar merit to be amused.

 

As to SMRPG not sure why it would need an easy mode, unless it takes out the timed hits stuff and just applies double damage and 1/2 received so you can just stock standard JRPG it.  It's not hard, but that can be an issue, it's an utter problem when paper mario came around since it was required and if you can't itme stuff well it's game over (why I *HATE* that game.)  SMRPG was optional 100% hit it or not you didn't get screwed as you could level (Paper Mario would lock you to earn 1xp per battle if you tried to grind.)

[RH | 4,922]

There's a myriad of ways to respond to this, but one perspective I'll give is that as one who use to have time in his life to level-grind in RPGs for hours on end, I still enjoy all of the other aspects of RPGs but cutting out grinding makes it easier to move onto the meat of some games.

One of the games that was high up on my list to play as a kid was FF IX, that I never got around too.  When it came out on the Switch a few years ago, I wanted to  double-back and play it just to see how it compared to FF VII.  I knew the two were vastly different and I even, maybe, put 2-3 hours into it originally.

Being and adult, with kids, and about 1 hour each night to play (if I'm lucky) I was glad to see they had modes and settings to quickly help characters.  You might say that if you can simply breeze through all of the battle so fast, what's the point?  Well there was the story and still the experience of exploration.  It was also a mainline FF title, and anyone who's familiar with the franchise knows that every new entry is always a combination of something old mixed with something very new.  Part of the fun of playing those games is both connecting with the old touchstones built into the series, while learning an entirely new game.  I played through FF IX in about 10 hours, I think.  If I had to grind all of that time, it might have taken me 3x that time.  I was more than satisfied with the resulting experience.

Regarding SM  RPG having an "easy mode", I find that ironic because if it's "for the kids", well, many of us feel like SM RPG already was a solid, entry level RPG.  It was enjoyable for the experienced RPGer, but it was also easy enough to be accessible to young children who are at a competent reading level.  I'm not sure what "easy mode" will look like on this game.  Maybe more generous XP and fewer random battles?

Edited November 8, 2023 by RH

[cj_robot | 543]

1 hour ago, RH said:

Regarding SM  RPG having an "easy mode", I find that ironic because if it's "for the kids", well, many of us feel like SM RPG already was a solid, entry level RPG.  It was enjoyable for the experienced RPGer, but it was also easy enough to be accessible to young children who are at a competent reading level.  I'm not sure what "easy mode" will look like on this game.  Maybe more generous XP and fewer random battles?

Yeah, that's what has me puzzled. Like, I get people wanting an easier Dark Souls, but what's the point with a game that is already easy to begin with? If you're just walking around, talking to townsfolk, and battles are reduced to just mashing the A button... I just don't see what enjoyment there is to be had there.

Edited November 8, 2023 by cj_robot

[cj_robot | 543]

2 hours ago, Tanooki said:

1) I've not seen people get a raging fit over that, I mean I can get why, but to be so utterly selfish with Dark Souls to not even allow it to be considered seems even more wrong. 

My stance is that if the developer doesn't want to include it, then they shouldn't have to. If somebody doesn't like Dark Souls the way it is, then play something else. It's not like there aren't a million other options when it comes to video games. If they want to add easy mode, then great and I'd never complain about it. But I'm not so entitled that I'm just going to start demanding stuff. Like I'm not getting pissed when The Bluey Videogame doesn't have an ultra-hard mode so that I can enjoy it.

[Tanooki | 4,939]

@cj_robot I wasn't going off on the developer to that, to those arguing about it in random threads that was directed at, the gamers pitching a fit.  Having come from that world, we're on the same page, if they (maker) doesn't want to, they don't have to, as they're catering to a niche that works for them.

Edited November 8, 2023 by Tanooki

[Sumez | 2,968]

20 hours ago, fox said:

You know every game that comes out is going to be somebody’s first.  Going to be the first rpg for a lot of people, maybe the first Mario game for them too.

Honestly, this is probably my only potential issue with such a mode existing.

Like you said, this game will be someone's first RPG, and for this reason they are probably likely to pick the super easy mode. And that's... kind of sad? Like you said, if the mode is appropriate for some people,  that's good for them - but no one is going to know that upfront going into the game!

Super Mario RPG is already a super well-balanced "my first rpg" introduction to the genre - and removing all kinds of engagement from the game's battles might actually rob them of that experience. 

Furthermore, if the battles are just reduced to a minor annoyance rather than an obstacle (already an issue in a lot of rpgs!), they might end up playing a worse game as well, without knowing it. 

Ultimately though, giving people options is rarely a bad thing. At least on paper. 

[Jeevan | 8,914]

I thought it was already in easy mode, just gotta star grind enemies outside of battle and way over level, not that hard .

[Reed Rothchild | 9,549]

3 hours ago, Jeevan said:

I thought it was already in easy mode, just gotta star grind enemies outside of battle and way over level, not that hard .

The only RPG that actively rewards you for dying by letting you keep your experience AND repopulating the auto-win free-for-all stars

[RegularGuyGamer | 2,013]

Fuck it. I'll play it on easy. For science. 

[G-type | 2,483]

No one likes having an asterisk on their accomplishments, but for many, they don't have the time or inclination to get gud. So its either play on easy mode or only see 5% of the game.

Edited November 21, 2023 by G-type

[TDIRunner | 2,744]

On a similar note, I just picked up the Metal Gear Solid Master Collection Vol. 1.  The original MGS includes the Integral version that was originally only released in Japan.  This version includes a "very easy" difficulty which is the same as easy, but it includes a silenced MP5 with unlimited ammo.  That weapon alone essentially allows you to go through the game and not worry about sneaking around enemies since you can kill them all silently without any alerts.  I read that it was designed for someone who was more interested in the story than playing the game.   

[cj_robot | 543]

36 minutes ago, TDIRunner said:

I read that it was designed for someone who was more interested in the story than playing the game.   

Maybe I'm the weirdo, but I just don't get it. If you're not interested in the game, but you want the story, just watch a YouTube video. It's free and as low effort as you can get. I just don't understand buying and playing a game if you're not interested in the game.

[phart010 | 1,707]

I like to play hard games with Game Genie