Elon and Twitter

[Link | 2,709]

18 hours ago, Tabonga said:

the Communists were every bit as violent and posed much the same threat to that government/society (albeit in a different manner)  as the Nazis.  If the Communists had prevailed the results would likely have been very similar - one only has to read about the abuses that Stalin inflicted on the Soviet people during his reign to understand/see that.

Authoritarianism is always bad. The communists did it and that was wrong. No cap. Doesn't mean communism is bad, only that implementation of communism. There is no good example of nazism.

13 hours ago, ThePhleo said:

Words like those will absolutely, definitely, directly lead to a civil war.

I will not accept denial and hatred towards the existence of any racial or sexual or religious or other immutable demographic. If people want to fight about that, yes I most certainly will stand against them. Yes, the right wing does co-opt the language of the oppressed as a hobby but that doesn't make their whining valid. 

 

14 hours ago, ThePhleo said:

And using any means necessary? That in and of itself is ironically, fascist ideology.

So what exactly is your opinion of Malcolm X? 

 

14 hours ago, ThePhleo said:

"Elon is charging for free speech"

Honestly I've never been able to operate on twitter and I just dont get it but no, he's not charging for free speech. He's charging for elevated status, and that's hilarious because now anybody can pose as whatever major entity they want for a small fee. Trust, the left is not complaining but rather finding this hilarious overall. 

[Tabonga | 2,317]

6 hours ago, Link said:

Authoritarianism is always bad. The communists did it and that was wrong. No cap. Doesn't mean communism is bad, only that implementation of communism. There is no good example of nazism.

There is not much in the way of examples of communism that have done well (in terms of their treatment of their own populations (let alone other populations once they get their hands on them) - maybe TIto (in that he kept the various groups who by and large hated each other from killing each other) but that went to hell after his death and in any event he was able to thrive only by playing in the cracks in the wainscoating between the East and the West in the cold war. And far far more people (historically) have died under the excesses of communist governments (either Russia or China alone demonstrate this) then the relatvely few fascistic governments.

IMHO most people make the mistake of viewing both forms of rule (it is a misnomer (again IMHO)  to really call them governments in the sense that the western democracies understand/practice them) as a linear continuum - they really are on a circular construct where difference in the exesses effectively meet at the backand become rather moot.  

Edited November 14, 2022 by Tabonga

[FireHazard51 | 2,043]

To help put it to rest, there will be no "Civil War" like we had in the past.  Experts have said that there is no way to "split" the US like the original Civil War.  Instead we'll have terrorist insurgencies from the "right wing militias" that will target the "government".  So basically we'll have a small group of American's declaring open war against the current government.  But the US isn't like Iraq.  The government will totally have tabs on the "right wing militias" and it will just be a mater of political pressure to crack down the insurgent groups.  Basically the US government will bust up militias and you know if that happen it will be more gas on the "right wing".  All in all it will be a bloody time and without a doubt we called a civil war.  

Spoiler

 

I'll be hoping that we can avoid all of this and just put it into the history books about the one time America came to the bring of a civil war again over xyz reasons.  AND like slavery, can agree that the reason for the civil war will be for the worst reason.  Or realistically just like today we can argue over what the REAL reason for the civil war was and some will put it in a light that isn't out right wrong. "The almost civil war was about preserving accurate voting and not a failed authoritarian coup attempt" 

[Link | 2,709]

36 minutes ago, Tabonga said:

There is not much in the way of examples of communism that have done well

You're not wrong, but let's also look at the ideals. I'd rather have a hypothetical communist system that does well than a hypothetical fascist system that does what it sets out to do.

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

Right wing leadership in my state want to take away the rights of my transgender teenager. They want to tell her what she can do with her own body. They want to take away medicine and pharmaceuticals that can help her. They want to take away sexual education so that she cannot understand how her body works. They want her to feel like she is not who she IS. They want her to feel less than human. 

This is what they have said publicly. Imagine if they had no opposition and could do whatever they want. I'm sure transgender people would be murdered in the streets. 

I will stand up for her in any way that I can. I will vote (a futile attempt in Nebraska) for the politicians who claim they will stand up for her. I will debate and disagree with anyone who thinks she is wrong. I will absolutely refuse to tolerate anyone who would insult, denigrate, or devalue her. And if someone came after her? Physically? If it came to blows, I would absolutely do whatever I can to defend her, as ANY parent should do for their child. 

So we can argue semantics over the use of the term nazi. That's fine. But it's not gonna stop me from doing whatever I can do to stand up for those less privileged than I. 

[Tabonga | 2,317]

2 hours ago, Link said:

You're not wrong, but let's also look at the ideals. I'd rather have a hypothetical communist system that does well than a hypothetical fascist system that does what it sets out to do.

I would much rather have neither - an even cursory look at history shows there are no (and never have been) societies that live up to all of whatever ideals they espouse (or maybe should espouse).   And riddle me this Batman - why do so many people want to come to this country (either legally or not) if it is so racist, homophobic, transphobic, whatever ic or ist you want to conjure up on top of the wealth being so unevenly distributed?  There is something going on here that people want to voluntarily participate in - unless they are just all deluded. 

 

Edited November 14, 2022 by Tabonga

[ThePhleo | 2,184]

12 hours ago, Link said:

Authoritarianism is always bad. The communists did it and that was wrong. No cap. Doesn't mean communism is bad, only that implementation of communism. There is no good example of nazism.

The word Nazi is literally a shortening of "National Socialist" in German. So we can't take labels literal...Antifa is the shortening of "Anti Fascist" but their actions prove to be more anarcho-capitalist...maybe that's the wrong label.

Speaking of capitalist, America is a capitalist-communist hybrid society, and working in any absolute social structure is dangerous (for an extreme and disgusting illustration of an example only: gang rape is a wholly democratic process)

America isn't a democracy either, its a democratic republic...meaning we democratically elect people to be our representative voices. There isn't a poll every day for every American to vote on...that's what a pure democracy looks like

 

 

12 hours ago, Link said:

I will not accept denial and hatred towards the existence of any racial or sexual or religious or other immutable demographic. If people want to fight about that, yes I most certainly will stand against them. Yes, the right wing does co-opt the language of the oppressed as a hobby but that doesn't make their whining valid. 

Easy words to say, but there's movements to add "MAP" to the LGBTQ+ spectrum. MAP's are "Minor Attracted Persons". I have a gay brother, I don't want pedophiles to be associated with him, and I bet he doesn't either.

 

 

 

12 hours ago, Link said:

So what exactly is your opinion of Malcolm X? 

I don't have any well informed opinions of him other than my shitty high-school drop out level public education that he was a civil rights activist, and leaned on the extreme side. Not sure how he's relevant to the conversation though?

 

 

 

12 hours ago, Link said:

Honestly I've never been able to operate on twitter and I just dont get it but no, he's not charging for free speech. He's charging for elevated status, and that's hilarious because now anybody can pose as whatever major entity they want for a small fee. Trust, the left is not complaining but rather finding this hilarious overall. 

Hilarious :V

I guess she gets a pass since she put "Lmao" at the start. If that's a workaround though then maybe Trump (may his political career rest in pieces) should have done the same. "LOL, take the streets and storm the capital. #justajoke"

Edited November 14, 2022 by ThePhleo

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

39 minutes ago, Tabonga said:

why do so many people want to come to this country (either legally or not) if it is so racist, homophobic, transphobic, whatever ic or ist you want to conjure up on top of the wealth being so unevenly distributed?

Because systemic racism has been designed to draw people here under the guise that this is still a melting pot and a land of opportunity like it was in the past, when really they just want them to come here so they have profit off of them. It's not hard to figure out if you pay attention. It's all about money.

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

3 minutes ago, ThePhleo said:

The word Nazi is literally a shortening of "National Socialist" in German. So we can't take labels literal...Antifa is the shortening of "Anti Fascist" but their actions prove to be more anarcho-capitalist?

Maybe we could stop arguing semantics over what to call who and instead focus on calling the people who are bad, BAD, and actually calling them out and doing something about it?

[ThePhleo | 2,184]

1 minute ago, CodysGameRoom said:

Maybe we could stop arguing semantics over what to call who and instead focus on calling the people who are bad, BAD, and actually calling them out and doing something about it?

Agreed. Just having a casual conversation though, no arguments.

[doner24 | 1,195]

2 minutes ago, CodysGameRoom said:

Because systemic racism has been designed to draw people here under the guise that this is still a melting pot and a land of opportunity like it was in the past, when really they just want them to come here so they have profit off of them. It's not hard to figure out if you pay attention. It's all about money.

Are you saying that the left is using systemic racism, because everyone knows that the right doesn’t want any immigrants here. 

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

32 minutes ago, doner24 said:

Are you saying that the left is using systemic racism, because everyone knows that the right doesn’t want any immigrants here. 

Yes they do. They want anyone here who they can take advantage of. They just don't want to see them. They lie through their teeth, come on. What they say and what they do are two different things all the time. 

[Tabonga | 2,317]

42 minutes ago, CodysGameRoom said:

Because systemic racism has been designed to draw people here under the guise that this is still a melting pot and a land of opportunity like it was in the past, when really they just want them to come here so they have profit off of them. It's not hard to figure out if you pay attention. It's all about money.

Or maybe it is simply that our society/system of governance has outperformed pretty much any other country economically  (and in so many other ways) in the world as of this time - and has from not long after the Civil War.   It is not all about money - there is also a much greater degree of freedom here than in the countries that people are trying to escape from.  And the people coming in want to profit from their labors - which they seem to - where the heck do you think the money for the large amount of remittances comes from?  While there a lot of overly wealthy people in this country there is a lot of wealth held by the rest of the populace - people come here because they get a larger slice of pie because that pie is so large that even if others have much larger slices they still get bigger ones (actual size wise) than the much more miniscule ones they were or were not getting from their homelands. 

I also don't see the people complaining about whatever leaving for the glorious utopias they think exist elsewhere.  A lot of celebs vowed to move to Canada if you know who became president - oops they almost all apparently didn't have the moral integrity to follow through on their "convictions". 

 

 

Edited November 14, 2022 by Tabonga

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

9 minutes ago, Tabonga said:

I also don't see the people complaining about whatever leaving for the glorious utopias they think exist elsewhere.  A lot of celebs vowed to move to Canada if you know who became president - oops they almost all apparently didn't have the moral integrity to follow through on their "convictions". 

Yea I mean 9 million people disagree, but keep spouting off random nonsense with zero source. 

https://www.renovatinglife.com/blog/americans-leaving-us

https://www.demilked.com/people-moving-from-america-to-europe/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/weary-from-political-strife-and-a-pandemic-some-americans-are-fleeing-the-country/2020/11/02/ee66038c-f840-11ea-89e3-4b9efa36dc64_story.html

[ThePhleo | 2,184]

49 minutes ago, doner24 said:

Are you saying that the left is using systemic racism, because everyone knows that the right doesn’t want any immigrants here. 

Hey not true!

At least for me, I just want people to come in through a vetting process for anyone looking to permanently immigrate here.

America does not have the infrastructure, money, or natural resources to handle the 660million+ Latin American people south of the border.

Personally, I believe the best way to solve the problems with the border and illegal immigration that the we have, is to help raise the standard of living in those other countries.

If things are good where you are, then you’ll have no reason to want to leave your home in the first place.

But, that’s a tough thing to say with the current “right” who loves to chant “America First” without realizing that giving assistance WOULD alleviate the issues they want to take care of first…that America First thing is probably the biggest thing keeping me from being a full time righty.

[Tabonga | 2,317]

25 minutes ago, CodysGameRoom said:

Yea I mean 9 million people disagree, but keep spouting off random nonsense with zero source. 

https://www.renovatinglife.com/blog/americans-leaving-us

https://www.demilked.com/people-moving-from-america-to-europe/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/weary-from-political-strife-and-a-pandemic-some-americans-are-fleeing-the-country/2020/11/02/ee66038c-f840-11ea-89e3-4b9efa36dc64_story.html

Particularly unhelpful - let's see one article has 20 Americans leaving (that is impressive), another article that states why some are leaving with with no concrete numbers (again impressive)  and one that simply says record numbers - with no actual number cited that I saw.  So one year 100 people leave and the next 102 - that is a new record!  

Lets look at it in this light - however many people are leaving - what is the percentage compared to the numbers coming in?  

And how many of those pesky celebs (and why does the public give a rat's ass about mostly goofy celebs anyway) actually graced Canada with their illustrious presence?

Edited November 14, 2022 by Tabonga

[G-type | 2,480]

59 minutes ago, ThePhleo said:

Agreed. Just having a casual conversation though, no arguments.

maybe take it to the politics club.

Lets just keep laughing at Twitter circling the drain.

[ThePhleo | 2,184]

Just now, G-type said:

maybe take it to the politics club.

Lets just keep laughing at Twitter circling the drain.

>_> oh…good idea lol

i don’t think I’m in that club though 

Wanna fight me about it though? HUH!?

Edited November 14, 2022 by ThePhleo

[Tabonga | 2,317]

5 minutes ago, G-type said:

maybe take it to the politics club.

 

Works for me:

 

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

22 minutes ago, ThePhleo said:

Hey not true!

@ThePhleo my apologies, as I'm not nor have been referring to you specifically. I'm referring directly to the right wing leadership in this country. 

 

23 minutes ago, Tabonga said:

Particularly unhelpful - let's see one article has 20 Americans leaving (that is impressive), another article that states why some are leaving with with no concrete numbers (again impressive)  and one that simply says record numbers - with no actual number cited that I saw.  So one year 100 people leave and the next 102 - that is a new record!  

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/18/the-top-reason-why-americans-abroad-want-to-dump-their-citizenship.html

"About 9 million U.S. citizens are living abroad, the U.S. Department of State estimates."

https://www.aaro.org/about-aaro/8m-americans-abroad

"8.7 million Americans (excluding military) live in 160-plus countries."

It just takes a simple Google search, it's really very easy to use. 

 

24 minutes ago, Tabonga said:

Lets look at it in this light - however many people are leaving - what is the percentage compared to the numbers coming in?  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emigration_from_the_United_States

"The United States does not keep track of emigration, and counts of Americans abroad are thus only available based on statistics kept by the destination countries."

25 minutes ago, Tabonga said:

And how many of those pesky celebs (and why does the public give a rat's ass about mostly goofy celebs anyway)

You just answered your own question on why I ignored your bit about celebrities. I don't care.

[Tabonga | 2,317]

2 minutes ago, CodysGameRoom said:

You just answered your own question on why I ignored your bit about celebrities. I don't care.

[Brickman | 3,983]

Wow this thread went weird. One moment I’m laughing at how much Elon is a tool and destroying Twitter.

Now it’s about Nazis and politics. It must be exhausting living in the US, everything always veers to left wing vs right wing 

[Tabonga | 2,317]

1 minute ago, Brickman said:

Now it’s about Nazis and politics. It must be exhausting living in the US, everything always veers to left wing vs right wing 

Unfortunately democracies (whether parlimentary or not) generally reach a clossed static two party system with a closely divided electorate.  Israel is really messed up in that manner. 

The Roman Republic originally had 4 chariot clubs (designated by the colors green, white, red and blues.

Over the centuries  two of the groups survived - green and blue. They expanded into basically political/religious parties and would have pitched battles all over the shrinking Roman Empire.   GD Romans were just weird......

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/blue-versus-green-rocking-the-byzantine-empire-113325928/

[ThePhleo | 2,184]

11 minutes ago, Brickman said:

Wow this thread went weird. One moment I’m laughing at how much Elon is a tool and destroying Twitter.

Now it’s about Nazis and politics. It must be exhausting living in the US, everything always veers to left wing vs right wing 

Welcome to the internet. This is what we call a forum.

given enough time, ANY topic leads to Hitler.

also the US ain’t bad…we have pizza bagels, and television!

Edited November 14, 2022 by ThePhleo

[Brickman | 3,983]

4 minutes ago, ThePhleo said:

Welcome to the internet. This is what we call a forum.

given enough time, ANY topic leads to Hitler.

also the US ain’t bad…we have pizza bagels, and television!

Yeah but there’s a political thread…go use that. Not everyone always wants to read about politics.

I know politics is an American sport but it gets exhausting having to read something I have no interest in, in a thread about Elon and Twitter.