WATA Finally Getting Sued?

[CIB_Wholesale | 418]

Just now, a3quit4s said:

but the people who bought them to hold long term…well sucks for them. 

depends on what games.

every system had games that sold out with lines going around the block

 

or crap that had overstocked hundreds of cases at the end of the initial release

 

it was weird to see junk surpass mario 3 and pokemon red prices

 

 

[OptOut | 8,884]

9 minutes ago, a3quit4s said:

Well the people who had the graded games at the beginning and sold them for 10x what they are worth now are certainly not dumb-fucks but the people who bought them to hold long term…well sucks for them. The whole graded market is speculative at best anyways 

Well yeah of course, I don't hold anything against innocent parties who made a buck during the bubble, good on them indeed. But, the truth is that without the initial conspiracy, the manipulation of media-channels to spread hype, and the dummy sales wash-trading between the scammers, no WAY we would have seen those prices blow-up like we did.

And after everything, a lot of those dumb-fucks are in fact VICTIMS of the WATA/HA conspirators, even if it is their own greed that led them to make those purchases. The fault lies with WATA/HA IMO.

[Tyree_Cooper | 755]

The real news is that I'm sueing OptOut for indecent thumb photos, but nobody's talking about that.

[CIB_Wholesale | 418]

8 minutes ago, Tyree_Cooper said:

The real news is that I'm sueing OptOut for indecent thumb photos, but nobody's talking about that.

the real news is that @DefaultGen has more content to work with

[CIB_Wholesale | 418]

On 5/1/2022 at 9:33 PM, ExplodedHamster said:

 

 

shake it on?

Edited October 24, 2023 by CIB_Wholesale

[Scrobins | 1,726]

5 hours ago, a3quit4s said:

Interesting use of RICO here, generally I hear that and think of like Mafia type stuff @Scrobins

It was created to prosecute the mob, but it's become an effective tool for many other conspiracies and interconnected schemes.

[Code Monkey | 2,010]

10 hours ago, OptOut said:

Well yeah of course, I don't hold anything against innocent parties who made a buck during the bubble, good on them indeed. But, the truth is that without the initial conspiracy, the manipulation of media-channels to spread hype, and the dummy sales wash-trading between the scammers, no WAY we would have seen those prices blow-up like we did.

And after everything, a lot of those dumb-fucks are in fact VICTIMS of the WATA/HA conspirators, even if it is their own greed that led them to make those purchases. The fault lies with WATA/HA IMO.

The manipulation of media channels for spreading hype is literally every day advertising. They're allowed to post anything they want anywhere they want as long as it's not a lie, how people interpret that is up to them.

Using your logic, the fault is with Apple if people lose money buying their stock.......that doesn't make sense. If people buy something as an investment, it's on them if that investment loses money, not anyone else.

[OptOut | 8,884]

1 hour ago, Code Monkey said:

The manipulation of media channels for spreading hype is literally every day advertising. They're allowed to post anything they want anywhere they want as long as it's not a lie, how people interpret that is up to them.

Using your logic, the fault is with Apple if people lose money buying their stock.......that doesn't make sense. If people buy something as an investment, it's on them if that investment loses money, not anyone else.

Yeah, but in this case the initial hype was generated by co-founders of WATA themselves, by wash-trading a copy of Super Mario Bros.

Jim Halpern, who was an original board member of WATA, bought that Super Mario Bros off of Bronty, who was also an original board member of WATA.

The price was 100,105, an INSANELY inflated value compared to any other game ever sold, and WATA and HA were able to leverage the media using the story to launch their pump and dump scheme.

That's not just regular mass-media marketing, that's outright market manipulation.

[Hammerfestus | 3,846]

31 minutes ago, OptOut said:

 

Jim Halpern, who was an original board member of WATA, bought that Super Mario Bros off of Bronty, who was also an original board member of WATA.

 

I have not been following this at all because it’s stupid so this is the first I’m hearing this .  So Bronty is evil now?  Huh.   

[OptOut | 8,884]

19 minutes ago, Hammerfestus said:

I have not been following this at all because it’s stupid so this is the first I’m hearing this .  So Bronty is evil now?  Huh.   

To my knowledge, Bronty id not a named defendant in the ongoing civil litigation against WATA/Collector's Universe.

However, it was always known that Bronty was the one who sold the Mario, and it was always known that Jim Halpern (owner of Heritage Auctions) was one of the three co-purchasers of that game.

What we didn't know at the time of the sale (but came out later on) was that they BOTH were founding members of WATA's board at the time of that purchase.

Bronty stood to gain an IMMENSE amount of money for not only selling that game, but also the vastly inflated value of the rest of his collection.

Heritage Auctions obviously gained tons of publicity for their new EXCLUSIVE partnership with WATA, auctioning off WATA grades games.

And, of course WATA themselves gained massively on the publicity of their grading service, which was immediately overrun with customers.

Classic scam.

[fcgamer | 4,723]

Nice video

[CIB_Wholesale | 418]

7 hours ago, OptOut said:

Bronty stood to gain an IMMENSE amount of money for not only selling that game, but also the vastly inflated value of the rest of his collection.

 

there is a HUGE difference between the sticker sealed mario and the 3rd print

 

I wouldnt call that a gain at all . the biggest slip in sealed game history

 

 

[OptOut | 8,884]

4 minutes ago, CIB_Wholesale said:

there is a HUGE difference between the sticker sealed mario and the 3rd print

 

I wouldnt call that a gain at all . the biggest slip in sealed game history

 

 

Perhaps, although perhaps not. If this contrived sale never went through, it's possible we may never have seen those massively inflated prices thereafter, which were directly ballooned by the hype of that sale. This is in fact the entire CRUX of the ongoing litigation.

Let's just put it this way, in 2018, a year before WATA and before the crazy sealed boom, would Bronty have got over a hundred grand for that Mario? Absolutely he wouldn't. It is only BECAUSE of that wash-trade and the WATA/HA conspiracy that the rest of the overhyped, overinflated prices could have been achieved.

Sealed game collecting and grading was a thing WAY before WATA started. It's only after their shenanigans every baseball card/comic book collector and his dog wanted a piece of the action.

So, yeah, I stand by what I said, Bronty stood to gain (and in fact massively did gain) from his participation in that wash-trade.

[CIB_Wholesale | 418]

4 minutes ago, OptOut said:

 

would Bronty have got over a hundred grand for that Mario? Absolutely he wouldn't.

 

agree with wat u said except this part. He would have gotten more. that's what's weird about the 2M mario because it's like 44,000x less rare

 

 

 

ya i didnt know about all the founding  stuff i thought he just sold it using their service

 

8 minutes ago, OptOut said:

Sealed game collecting and grading was a thing WAY before WATA started.

 

ya it was pretty much dain , rb, bronty and 2 or 3 others

 

I dont think Dain and Bronty realize by covering their connections what an impact it had on other resellers

[OptOut | 8,884]

5 minutes ago, CIB_Wholesale said:

agree with wat u said except this part. He would have gotten more. that's what's weird about the 2M mario because it's like 44,000x less rare

What do you mean the 2 million dollar Mario was weird? It wasn't weird, the company that bought it, or rather the dullards contributing to the asset-share scheme that bought it, were duped by the WATA/HA hype scheme.

That's the whole point of this class-action lawsuit. WATA conned a bunch of people into buying shit for massively overinflated prices. That Mario is not and NEVER WAS worth 2 million. It was a con, up and down.

[SNESNESCUBE64 | 541]

Dunno how I missed this topic but without reading anything (even this whole thread) or looking into this at all, suddenly my crackpot conspiracy theory that wata grading is being used for money laundering finally has some credibility.

Edited October 25, 2023 by SNESNESCUBE64

[CIB_Wholesale | 418]

my favorite part of the whole thing is the 1.56M mario seller going around promoting

 

like whoa cant u hire it out to be less obvious?

[OptOut | 8,884]

3 minutes ago, CIB_Wholesale said:

my favorite part of the whole thing is the 1.56M mario seller going around promoting

 

like whoa cant u hire it out to be less obvious?

As far as I am aware he is not a part of the conspiracy.

He's just one lucky fuck, lol!!! 

[CIB_Wholesale | 418]

3 minutes ago, OptOut said:

As far as I am aware he is not a part of the conspiracy.

He's just one lucky fuck, lol!!! 

 

 

I guess so. lump sum payments are overrated it usually ends badly check out all the lottery winners

 

just FYI if i ever get 1.5M for something i paid 500 bucks for it's likely to get reinvested in games

 

guy has 0 feedback on VGS

 

 

[CIB_Wholesale | 418]

8 hours ago, OptOut said:

To my knowledge, Bronty id not a named defendant in the ongoing civil litigation against WATA/Collector's Universe.

However, it was always known that Bronty was the one who sold the Mario, and it was always known that Jim Halpern (owner of Heritage Auctions) was one of the three co-purchasers of that game.

What we didn't know at the time of the sale (but came out later on) was that they BOTH were founding members of WATA's board at the time of that purchase.

 

 

 

 

its actually funny because this email Bronty sent me states he has no relationship with video games

 

or the video game hobby

 

 

QUOTE FROM SEPTEMBER 1st 2019

'You may not realize this but I haven't given much of a shit about
collecting games for 11 years now.    Since that time I've been
collecting the art used to make the boxes.   I know that you're still
very into the games but if I don't trade much its because I basically
keep what I have unless somebody approaches me with a really good
offer to buy something.    Its just that simple.    The time I spend
collecting I spend on art.' ----BRONTY  SEPTEMBER 2019
 

so bronty sent me this email about not being in the hobby while he was on the board of wata?

Edited October 25, 2023 by CIB_Wholesale

[OptOut | 8,884]

5 minutes ago, CIB_Wholesale said:

 

 

 

its actually funny because this email Bronty sent me states he has no relationship with video games

 

or the video game hobby

 

 

QUOTE FROM SEPTEMBER 1st 2019

'You may not realize this but I haven't given much of a shit about
collecting games for 11 years now.    Since that time I've been
collecting the art used to make the boxes.   I know that you're still
very into the games but if I don't trade much its because I basically
keep what I have unless somebody approaches me with a really good
offer to buy something.    Its just that simple.    The time I spend
collecting I spend on art.' ----BRONTY  SEPTEMBER 2019
 

so bronty sent me this email about not being in the hobby while he was on the board of wata?

[CIB_Wholesale | 418]

 

1 minute ago, OptOut said:

it's not just that the people who 'werent involved' were involved but they took a lot of steps to tell everyone they werent involved while being involved

[RH | 4,904]

10 hours ago, Code Monkey said:

The manipulation of media channels for spreading hype is literally every day advertising. They're allowed to post anything they want anywhere they want as long as it's not a lie, how people interpret that is up to them.

Using your logic, the fault is with Apple if people lose money buying their stock.......that doesn't make sense. If people buy something as an investment, it's on them if that investment loses money, not anyone else.

Marketing is intended to persuade, not manipulate.  There's a fine line between the two, and the law makes generous allowances in the direction of manipulation because of that whole foundational tenant of our government that your "innocent until proven guilty."  One man's manipulation is another man's persuasive argument as to why you need, or should want, to buy a product.

However, Wata and HA used their internal connections and their businesses to falsify a demand that was not there.  Or rather, they falsified a demand that was not as high or as valuable as it realistically was.  Speculation in markets is a real thing, and creating a fake demand to manipulate a market is illegal.   Flip the perspective and ask yourself if a company did this to a stock, how do you think congress would have responded?  They would have thrown the book at that company (unless they were a company like  Black  Rock, but that's a different story) and they would have been heavily fined.  You can't take a small cap stock, accumulate, say 50% of the shares.  Post some fake, hype articles about the small cap company and then dump your shares over time on a hyped-up order book.  This is called a pump-and-dump and it's illegal.

It is unethical, and illegal, to hype and pump up markets  through internal manipulation.  It's like the opposite of insider trading.  Actually, it is insider trading, but you're then manufacturing, or providing nothing, of real value to the external investors other than a smoke-and-mirrors view that the investment has potential value when nothing has changed. 

You can manipulate, in a sense, peoples opinions of the need for an item, but you can't manipulate markets to impress upon people that demand is high, so they will invest.  It's wrong in the corporate sector, and it's wrong in the private sector as well.

9 hours ago, OptOut said:

Yeah, but in this case the initial hype was generated by co-founders of WATA themselves, by wash-trading a copy of Super Mario Bros.

Jim Halpern, who was an original board member of WATA, bought that Super Mario Bros off of Bronty, who was also an original board member of WATA.

The price was 100,105, an INSANELY inflated value compared to any other game ever sold, and WATA and HA were able to leverage the media using the story to launch their pump and dump scheme.

That's not just regular mass-media marketing, that's outright market manipulation.

I've mostly followed this over the years, but this was the first I learned about Bronty being involved directly with Wata.  That's a shame.  I liked him, and he helped me a little in trying to track down some game art (although I never located it.)

9 hours ago, Hammerfestus said:

I have not been following this at all because it’s stupid so this is the first I’m hearing this .  So Bronty is evil now?  Huh.   

I still hope he's a bit of a patsy.  I know he was on the board, or an original founder but  hopefully it was more that he invested early in the company and Jim simply reached out to him and gave him "an offer he couldn't refuse".  I mean, that's probably not true but I can hope that's what it amounted too.

[RH | 4,904]

15 minutes ago, CIB_Wholesale said:

 

 

 

its actually funny because this email Bronty sent me states he has no relationship with video games

 

or the video game hobby

 

 

QUOTE FROM SEPTEMBER 1st 2019

'You may not realize this but I haven't given much of a shit about
collecting games for 11 years now.    Since that time I've been
collecting the art used to make the boxes.   I know that you're still
very into the games but if I don't trade much its because I basically
keep what I have unless somebody approaches me with a really good
offer to buy something.    Its just that simple.    The time I spend
collecting I spend on art.' ----BRONTY  SEPTEMBER 2019
 

so bronty sent me this email about not being in the hobby while he was on the board of wata?

You posted this while I was posting my above response.  This was the exact, general response I got from him.  I'm not going to paint Bronty as a saint here.  I just don't know his actual motives and intents.  However, back in that time frame, it was well obvious who the big collectors were back at NA and you can also sense when a collector has "finished" their general game collecting because if you have the collecting bug, like Bronty  (and others) you move on to other niche collectibles within the space.

I'm sure he was watching his words because he was working with a new company but yes, it wouldn't suprise me at all if Deniz and/or Jim reached out to him to see if he'd be interested in selling some of his collection and that's how those relationships started.

[CIB_Wholesale | 418]

1 minute ago, RH said:

I just don't know his actual motives and intents.  However, back in that time frame, it was well obvious who the big collectors were back at NA

ya wouldnt you say that having 2 of them start marketing their 'consignments with nothing attached' would have an impact on the other 4 sealed collectors?