WATA Finally Getting Sued?

[ExplodedHamster | 404]

On 10/25/2023 at 8:26 AM, CIB_Wholesale said:

 

 

I guess so. lump sum payments are overrated it usually ends badly check out all the lottery winners

 

just FYI if i ever get 1.5M for something i paid 500 bucks for it's likely to get reinvested in games

 

guy has 0 feedback on VGS

 

 

I don't really buy/sell on VGS (though I did quite a bit on NA back in the day), but trust me when I say far too much of the money has gone back into games. If you don't believe me, ask my wife.

We all have the same sickness, brother. 

 

Edited October 31, 2023 by ExplodedHamster

[Scrobins | 1,727]

37 minutes ago, ExplodedHamster said:

Regarding the lawsuit, something Pat I think got wrong is that in a Motion to Dismiss, a judge is looking solely at the complaint filed and has to take the claims by the plaintiff(s) to be true as a matter of law. Then a judge will say, assuming this is all true as claimed, could a reasonable jury make a finding of X. Surviving a Motion to Dismiss is almost automatic provided the lawyer filing it is competent.

Discovery does not begin until after a Motion to Dismiss is dealt with. After Discovery, there will usually be a filing for Summary Judgment, and that is the point in time a judge will no longer assume claims are true, but apply evidence from Discovery. So when Pat says "a judge must have seen something in the evidence," I don't believe that can be true, at least at this point in time. Rejecting a Motion to Dismiss predates Discovery, and in fact is what triggers it. 

Anyway, we'll see what happens. I know covid backed up courts all around the country, so it's taken a long time and probably will continue to do so, but maybe something happens within the next 6 months or so. I believe the next step would be conclusion of Discovery and then the Motion for Summary Judgment. If it survives that, that's when there would be either a trial or settlement. 

This is not correct or at least confusingly imprecise wording. Claims are a legal term and shouldn’t be conflated with factual allegations. Matters of law refer to how the law is applied.

While I’m not watching this matter, there are several grounds for filing a motion to dismiss, a prominent one known as a 12(b)(6) motion, referring to the relevant federal rule of civil procedure, claiming the plaintiff fails to state a claim for which relief can be granted. In such a motion, the argument is that even if all the facts are true, there is no legal cause of action justifying the lawsuit.

[ExplodedHamster | 404]

27 minutes ago, Scrobins said:

This is not correct or at least confusingly imprecise wording. Claims are a legal term and shouldn’t be conflated with factual allegations. Matters of law refer to how the law is applied.

While I’m not watching this matter, there are several grounds for filing a motion to dismiss, a prominent one known as a 12(b)(6) motion, referring to the relevant federal rule of civil procedure, claiming the plaintiff fails to state a claim for which relief can be granted. In such a motion, the argument is that even if all the facts are true, there is no legal cause of action justifying the lawsuit.

Sorry if my wording was imprecise, but I think what you said is what I was trying to say. The main point is that, in the Motion to Dismiss, the judge is likely looking within the Complaint only. Thus, when Pat says "the judge saw X and Y from Discovery and decided the case needs to go on," I believe that would be incorrect, as the judge would be looking solely within the four corners of the Complaint made by the Plaintiffs, and I think this usually happens prior to Discovery being initiated. 

Am I wrong on that point? 

Not trying to be snarky, legitimately curious. 

Edited October 31, 2023 by ExplodedHamster

[Scrobins | 1,727]

1 minute ago, ExplodedHamster said:

Sorry if my wording was imprecise, but I think what you said is what I was trying to say. The main point is that in the Motion to Dismiss, the judge is likely looking within the complaint. Thus, when Pat says "the judge saw X and Y from Discovery when denying the motion," I believe that would be incorrect, as the judge would be looking solely within the four corners of the Complaint. 

Am I wrong on that point? 

Not trying to be snarky, legitimately curious. 

Like most things in law, it depends. There are circumstances in which a motion of this type could be made after discovery, but the point is that such a motion is a legal rather than a factual argument, since it assumes the truth of all the factual allegations (i.e. best case factual scenario). I think though you’re right, and while having not followed this case, would guess Pat is making bad assumptions about how the legal system works.

[ExplodedHamster | 404]

5 minutes ago, Scrobins said:

Like most things in law, it depends. There are circumstances in which a motion of this type could be made after discovery, but the point is that such a motion is a legal rather than a factual argument, since it assumes the truth of all the factual allegations (i.e. best case factual scenario). I think though you’re right, and while having not followed this case, would guess Pat is making bad assumptions about how the legal system works.

Yes, I should not have used the term "Facts." I meant complaint/allegations. It's one of those things where assuming something is true and "fact" aren't the same thing in legal terminology, whereas in layman's terms it could be conflated that way. I kind of waffled back between legal terminology and layman terminology. My bad, Counsel . 

Edited October 31, 2023 by ExplodedHamster

[CIB_Wholesale | 418]

16 hours ago, ExplodedHamster said:

I don't really buy/sell on VGS (though I did quite a bit on NA back in the day), but trust me when I say far too much of the money has gone back into games. If you don't believe me, ask my wife.

We all have the same sickness, brother. 

 

 

 

nobody's buying it brother

 

 

i'd like to enter into evidence that i didnt get rich in 2018-2021, but you did

 

 

case closed

Edited November 1, 2023 by CIB_Wholesale

[fcgamer | 4,750]

36 minutes ago, CIB_Wholesale said:

 

 

nobody's buying it brother

 

 

i'd like to enter into evidence that i didnt get rich in 2018-2021, but you did

 

 

case closed

I'd like to enter into evidence my sealed John Madden was suddenly said to be a reseal, whilst the owner of another profited hugely off if his testimony regarding that

[CIB_Wholesale | 418]

9 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

I'd like to enter into evidence my sealed John Madden was suddenly said to be a reseal, whilst the owner of another profited hugely off if his testimony regarding that

i love how it's common knowledge that with increased demand comes increased supply but HA/wata was complaining they didnt have new inventory coming in

 

so there is 10x demand and 1/2 supply?????

 

and the titles and conditions just got worse from the inception they had to spread out their grails  further and further. I heard they were canceling weeklys or something

 

it's the opposite of math. if HA makes 100k sale with 20k in fees then i should be able to spend 20k-25k in advertising to get 80k for the same game

 

 

however my 85+ sonic 1 was estimated at about 3k after one sold for almost half a million

Edited November 1, 2023 by CIB_Wholesale

[fcgamer | 4,750]

5 minutes ago, CIB_Wholesale said:

i love how it's common knowledge that with increased demand comes increased supply but HA/wata was complaining they didnt have new inventory coming in

 

so there is 10x demand and 1/2 supply?????

 

and the titles and conditions just got worse from the inception they had to spread out their grails  further and further. I heard they were canceling weeklys or something

 

it's the opposite of math. if HA makes 100k sale with 20k in fees then i should be able to spend 20k-25k in advertising to get 80k for the same game

 

 

however my 85+ sonic 1 was estimated at about 3k after one sold for almost half a million

If you aren't part of the group, you can't enter into it, period. That's my thought anyways. If I had my druthers, anyone who made tens of thousands in wata , I'd investigate into them too as being involved in the scam.

[CIB_Wholesale | 418]

1 minute ago, fcgamer said:

If you aren't part of the group, you can't enter into it, period. That's my thought anyways. If I had my druthers, anyone who made tens of thousands in wata , I'd investigate into them too as being involved in the scam.

 

 

i'm not too upset because they're showing their midriff thru comics. they cant do the scam with comics anymore because the comics were manufactured to achieve this same modus operandi. im sure the comic investors are exhausted with it

 

 

[fcgamer | 4,750]

4 minutes ago, CIB_Wholesale said:

 

 

i'm not too upset because they're showing their midriff thru comics. they cant do the scam with comics anymore because the comics were manufactured to achieve this same modus operandi. im sure the comic investors are exhausted with it

 

 

Well I'm not too upset either, as each dog must have it's day. You mess with a man and tens of thousands if not millions, then well...I pity anyone screwing someone over for more than a pittance.

[CIB_Wholesale | 418]

1 minute ago, fcgamer said:

Well I'm not too upset either, as each dog must have it's day. You mess with a man and tens of thousands if not millions, then well...I pity anyone screwing someone over for more than a pittance.

the person most screwed over was whoever consigned the high end NES near the beginning of the whole thing

they have a huge case for consigning under false pretenses

[ThePhleo | 2,185]

I've kept my opinions about this whole thing in a "quantum state" of supportive-critic for a while, and I want to let a little of the mystery go.

I know a lot of the people in the 0.1% of 0.1% of the hobby, even before the infamous $100k SMB1 sale, and I chat with many of them fairly frequently. They're almost all just nerds and dweebs like you and me, but they have a lot more expendable cash and can afford to have a particular taste that many of us don't generally care about.

There's a few people who aren't like us that walk amongst us, but they're a very slim minority. "The Dentist" is one of them, and NerdyGirl is one too (although, I applaud her for not passing herself off as "one of us" and being open about what her role is in our hobby cross sections. If you're reading this NerdyGirl, you rock despite us not seeing eye to eye on some things)

@ExplodedHamster you don't need to defend yourself, you're an OG sealed guy from NA, and I know as a fact that as many millions as you've made off 'Tendo Tapes, you've also spent back into. I understand the concept of "easy come easy go" when it comes to fueling your hobby. I think if I sold my entire collection tomorrow I'd be lucky to break even, and that's after 12 years of collecting.

--

As for my personal opinions on Wata?

Wata clearly benefited from some amazing luck in timing, and networking and I don't think Deniz could have possibly fathom how fast the business would grow, even in his wildest dreams.

Wata was just founded as a NintendoAge project with intentions to compete with VGA, and be a small niche.

• Luck Factor 1: Securing seed capital
• Luck Factor 2: Working with Jim Halperin
• Luck Factor 3: NA Being bought out
• Luck Factor 4: COVID lockdowns
• Luck Factor 5: Free TRILLIONS from J. Powell
• Luck Factor 6: Being bought out

Wata was never supposed to be big business. It was just meant for super-nerds and things got out of hand, and you'd be an idiot not to just keep rolling with it. I can't say I wouldn't take the same path Deniz did if I were in his position.

Deniz is good people who dreamed of making it to the big leagues, and sort of stumbled in by good fortune. Without Covid, Wata would have been just another VGA competitor.

[RH | 4,965]

I'd take issue with calling Luck Factors 2 and 6 being labeled as "luck".  You only sell out with reason and Halperin is a snake.  Full stop. 

Either he was unlucky that Halperin sniffed him out at the wrong time or the fact that he got involved with a shady auction house that specifically pedals in high-end collectibles speaks a lot to his intentions.  I'm not sure which but I don't know how you could see it as being lucky in any way.

Edited November 1, 2023 by RH

[ThePhleo | 2,185]

6 hours ago, RH said:

I'd take issue with calling Luck Factors 2 and 6 being labeled as "luck".  You only sell out with reason and Halperin is a snake.  Full stop. 

Either he was unlucky that Halperin sniffed him out at the wrong time or the fact that he got involved with a shady auction house that specifically pedals in high-end collectibles speaks a lot to his intentions.  I'm not sure which but I don't know how you could see it as being lucky in any way.

The luck factor is actually convincing a man in his position that "There's gold in them thar hills". Everyone has a million dollar idea, but few people ever get an audience that can back them up.

Also, prior to the Karl Jobst expose, I've never heard of Jim Halperin. I guess I would do some background research if I was entering a big deal with someone too, but no one is perfect and it's hard to say no to someone who can make your dreams come true, especially at Deniz's age at the time.

I'm not trying to defend Deniz either here, I have some harsh criticisms for him abandoning the community, but I GET IT. He sacrificed his hobby for business, and he had to "put his childish things away".

[CIB_Wholesale | 418]

 

 

12 hours ago, ThePhleo said:

 

Also, prior to the Karl Jobst expose,

 

 

 

have you seen these points about the FTC act?

 

I still dont understand why they shouldnt have to disclose those relationships during the ad

Edited November 2, 2023 by CIB_Wholesale

[Gulag Joe | 584]

Of course Pat got it wrong. He’s not a lawyer. He’s a YouTube content creator. And it’s no secret that the amount of clicks he gets on his content is much, much higher when the topic is sealed video game conspiracies.

[ThePhleo | 2,185]

9 hours ago, CIB_Wholesale said:

 

 

 

 

 

have you seen these points about the FTC act?

 

I still dont understand why they shouldnt have to disclose those relationships during the ad

What ad?

Pawn Stars is a reality tv show and Wata is not the producer, editor, or creator of the show.

[CIB_Wholesale | 418]

33 minutes ago, ThePhleo said:

What ad?

Pawn Stars is a reality tv show and Wata is not the producer, editor, or creator of the show.

u know i was going to go into a big paragraph about those details but you're just going to ding and microflap everything

I'm sure that'll happen in the lawsuit too. and it'll get thrown out or minimized or the prezident will pardon everyone

 

real collectors know this one is better than the 9.8 mario 1.56

 

and when we both take the skirts off and make valuations with the eyes all the collectors will prefer this one

 

not because u can directly tell but because none of the other 90s. --- i mean 0 (zero, none, nada, not 1) 90s i have ever seen--- have holes, waterstains and damage like this tomb raider 9.8 does. many other examples too

 

so it's the reputation of VGA 90 that makes this one so much better than the 9.8 that sold for millions. not really the particulars of the individual games themselves. im confident any collector that values condition will know it too

 

no amount of money is going to fix that problem

 

 

 

[ThePhleo | 2,185]

>_> wat.

[DefaultGen | 5,427]

I dunno what we're talking about now but I just want to argue. Counterpoint: This VGA 90 from 2 weeks ago is ugly afff

[BlackVega | 583]

Finally those racist bastards are getting sued

[CIB_Wholesale | 418]

34 minutes ago, ThePhleo said:

>_> wat.

do you think 9.8 is better than 90

[CIB_Wholesale | 418]

12 minutes ago, DefaultGen said:

I dunno what we're talking about now but I just want to argue. Counterpoint: This VGA 90 from 2 weeks ago is ugly afff

that loooks 1,000x better than the tomb raider

[DefaultGen | 5,427]

Yeah but that Tomb Raider has an A+ seal which stands "Eyyy plus your money up and buy a better seal grade". Damn I'm good with wordplay.