Jump to content
IGNORED

2022 VGS NES Weekly Contest Suggestions Thread!!!


Recommended Posts

Events Team · Posted

Hey everyone!

It's already this time of the year, when Bea and I get our old bones at work and try to organize another year of VGS NES Weekly Contest for everyone to enjoy! As always, we want to give the chance to everyone to say their piece about what they'd expect for this season. Any kind of discussions are fully welcome, be it to make games/rules suggestions, offer any kind of idea about the structure of the season, the tournament, the point system and ranking etc., criticisms of whatever you feel could be better for the contest, anything you feel like getting off your chest before Bea's reign of discipline comes into play!

So let's put our collective brains at work and see what kind of juice we can squeeze out of this thread for the glory of the 2022 season!

  • Thanks 1
  • Love 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess I'll start with the code stuff. I agree that there probably should be rules around it at the very least.

I think the best comprise that someone mentioned is that everyone is free to reverse engineer the code, but whatever they find needs to be immediately shared in the thread. Does anyone have any different ideas?

How about using things like scripts to help out as long as they are completely external (like what I did for Golf)? IDK if it would actually be useful in games other than Golf, but might as well bring it up in case.

Also, does anyone think we should ban RNG manipulation or is that fair game? I can't remember if anyone actually objected to me using that, but I can see the case against it. Still, it is a technique that everyone could use without knowing anything about the code. Although, it's mostly only useful for puzzle games and it seems no one else cares enough about puzzle games to spend the time learning a fixed seeded route.

At some point I'll put together a games suggestion list, but my brain is too fried tonight.

  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, 0xDEAFC0DE said:

I guess I'll start with the code stuff. I agree that there probably should be rules around it at the very least.

I think the best comprise that someone mentioned is that everyone is free to reverse engineer the code, but whatever they find needs to be immediately shared in the thread. Does anyone have any different ideas?

How about using things like scripts to help out as long as they are completely external (like what I did for Golf)? IDK if it would actually be useful in games other than Golf, but might as well bring it up in case.

Also, does anyone think we should ban RNG manipulation or is that fair game? I can't remember if anyone actually objected to me using that, but I can see the case against it. Still, it is a technique that everyone could use without knowing anything about the code. Although, it's mostly only useful for puzzle games and it seems no one else cares enough about puzzle games to spend the time learning a fixed seeded route.

At some point I'll put together a games suggestion list, but my brain is too fried tonight.

I personally don’t mind someone with code reading skills whipping my ass. Worst it can do is make someone mad. Best it can do is make someone learn something to “get good”.

I wanna get good? I better learn some shit! 
 

 

  • Agree 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

#1: give us our charms for 2021 and 2020... puhrease!!!

#2: The code issue is tough, but what can you do?  I'm against code peaking, but having the individual share vital intel (especially competition-breaking stuff) would be a step in the right direction, I suppose...

As for games, Micro Machines, Adventure Island, Bomberman, maybe some games you never choose because they have no score and then do a distance contest, like you did with Holy Diver...

I also suggest giving the weekly winner something more than just a single point over second place - make winning meaningful... 🙂

Edited by Dr. Morbis
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Events Team · Posted

I am considering reviewing the points system this year. We used the same point system from before to make @Reed Rothchild's life easier when compiling the archives and hall of fame, but that is on the past now, so it is a good time and place to change it.
I am considering the following point structure:

1st: 20
2nd: 16
3rd: 13
4th: 10
5th: 8
6th: 6
7th: 4
8th: 2
9th and onward: 1

This gives a bigger incentive for people to try and secure a top 3 standing during the contest weeks.

Regarding code peeking, I am completely for allowing it as long as the information is shared.

About RNG manipulation... is there anyone who doesn't do it for speed runs and to try to get the best patterns in action or puzzle games? Why would anyone even consider banning this. That is nonsense!

With the experimental rules of Holy Diver and Batman being successful last year, we will be bringing some acclaimed and beloved games to the line up to freshen things up. Expect games like Megaman, Castlevania, Bomberman or other series where we had trouble with scoring to show up this year.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Events Team · Posted
11 minutes ago, BeaIank said:

I am considering reviewing the points system this year. We used the same point system from before to make @Reed Rothchild's life easier then compiling the archives and hall of fame, but that is on the past now, so it is a good time and place to change it.
I am considering the following point structure:

1st: 20
2nd: 16
3rd: 13
4th: 10
5th: 8
6th: 6
7th: 4
8th: 2
9th and onward: 1

This gives a bigger incentive for people to try and secure a top 3 standing during the contest weeks.

Regarding code peeking, I am completely for allowing it as long as the information is shared.

About RNG manipulation... is there anyone who doesn't do it for speed runs and to try to get the best patterns in action or puzzle games? Why would anyone even consider banning this. That is nonsense!

With the experimental rules of Holy Diver and Batman being successful last year, we will be bringing some acclaimed and beloved games to the line up to freshen things up. Expect games like Megaman, Castlevania, Bomberman or other series where we had trouble with scoring to show up this year.

awesome, look forward to it if I can be around, if nothing else, gives me a reason to try some new games!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm with @BeaIank on the code peeking thing...go ahead, but share anything useful that's found.  But writing a script like @0xDEAFC0DE did for Golf should be disallowed.  Even if it's completely external, it gives an unfair advantage to the person using it that is not available in-game.

As for games, I'd like to see games that have rarely, if ever, been used.  I'm partial to The Punisher because, well, that game is my jam, and I can beat it in my sleep, but there's a ton of others that would be great fun.  And since we've proven that a distance run can easily be doable (like with Batman), I'd like to see one or two of those.  Don't overdo it, but a couple of them would be a nice way to change up the pace.

One thing I'd like to see though would be to make the genre leaderboards matter.  I'm not sure how exactly, but I think winning a genre should be a bigger deal than it is at present.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i got to say my peace. I can’t stand the looking at code and share bearing. When I look in the thread and see others excited to share code or techniques it bothers me to the point I lose interest.


I am not at all asking, certainly not expecting, anyone to sacrifice their happiness via the way they approach, play and interact in the contest. 

but for me I can’t even look through the thread in order to talk shit without stumbling upon spoilers. I don’t want to know the code or techniques. I want to figure that out on my own with a console, controller, cartridge and crt.
 

Edited by docile tapeworm
  • Like 1
  • Agree 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Member · Posted

I'm fine with people with disassembling skillz to do what they can to learn about games AND not share it.  I mean, it'd be nice to learn about those details after the game, but I like the element it adds.  I also somewhat understand this is extra information that others can't get, but IMHO, that's just a way one can hone their craft to be better at something.  It's like a crazy cyclist I use to know that spent a lot of money on top tier gear and then would still drill holes into certain parts of his bike frame just to reduce weight.  Whatever you can do to get that extra edge, so long as you're not hacking the game in this case, or using external tools to play is fair in my game.

I didn't catch what DEAF did when he "scripted" something for golf.  IMHO, you shouldn't use anything that plays the game for you, modifies the game for you or gives you extra information about what's going on on the CPU or in RAM.  The distinction in this and my former comment is that you can learn all about a game and how it works, but once you crack open the box while you're playing, I don't see it as "fair".

This also may have been suggested before but I would like to see a tournament of a combo of the absolutely worst and broken games, plus unlicensed titles only.  This would mean that there could be some good games, they just aren't "legit", and then there might be some Nintendo-official titles, but they are gonna suuuuuuuck.

Edited by RH
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Member · Posted

Bayou Billy

Double Dragon 2

I'm an excellent Bump n Jump high score player, but I discovered a glitch that can be abused, which bothers me. Too bad it's so janky.

Adventure Island

Palamedes

Rad Racer

BreakThru

Kung Fu game A with looping allowed.

Jackal

Contra

 

Edited by mbd39
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@RHso with the cyclist analogy… it’s not necessarily the best cyclist but the best cyclist with access to the best equipment.

can you look at code without a computer? That’s my other issue so now i need a computer and learn how to look at code to be on the same field? 

Am I the only one who would like to have everyone on the same field? The sandlot. Wouldn’t it be nice if everyone was essentially playing the game with a controller and a screen, nothing else? 

  • Like 1
  • Angry 1
  • Agree 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, BeaIank said:

About RNG manipulation... is there anyone who doesn't do it for speed runs and to try to get the best patterns in action or puzzle games? Why would anyone even consider banning this. That is nonsense!

With the experimental rules of Holy Diver and Batman being successful last year, we will be bringing some acclaimed and beloved games to the line up to freshen things up. Expect games like Megaman, Castlevania, Bomberman or other series where we had trouble with scoring to show up this year.

I think I remember that the main category in Dr. Mario doesn't allow resets or Gameovers in the middle of the run because they can be used to manipulate RNG. But I think most other speedruns allow it.

If we do more speedruns like Batman, we should come up with more solid rules for what counts as a submission. Like Moribus said, it's kinda disheartening to be beaten by a picture of a timer as opposed to a full video. But, I do understand that recording a video isn't the most accessible thing and will likely lead to lower participation. 

Also when I make my list I'll be sure to add Zelda again like I added last time. I think it would be fun.

33 minutes ago, docile tapeworm said:

but for me I can’t even look through the thread in order to talk shit without stumbling upon spoilers. I don’t want to know the code or techniques. I want to figure that out on my own with a console, controller, cartridge and crt.

I'll put what I find in spoilers if it helps.

33 minutes ago, RH said:

I didn't catch what DEAF did when he "scripted" something for golf.  IMHO, you shouldn't use anything that plays the game for you, modifies the game for you or gives you extra information about what's going on on the CPU or in RAM.  The distinction in this and my former comment is that you can learn all about a game and how it works, but once you crack open the box while you're playing, I don't see it as "fair".

The gist of it is I wrote a script that let you enter the wind speed, direction, and hole, and it would tell you what clubs/direction/power/curve to hit the ball at. I had to reverse engineer the code to figure out how the ball physics work, but when running it doesn't use any extra information about what's going on in RAM (I was still playing on my real NES). Given that most people in the contests don't write code professionally, the script could be seen as an unfair advantage.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Member · Posted
1 hour ago, 0xDEAFC0DE said:

The gist of it is I wrote a script that let you enter the wind speed, direction, and hole, and it would tell you what clubs/direction/power/curve to hit the ball at. I had to reverse engineer the code to figure out how the ball physics work, but when running it doesn't use any extra information about what's going on in RAM (I was still playing on my real NES). Given that most people in the contests don't write code professionally, the script could be seen as an unfair advantage.

I see what you're talking about.  To me, this is like using a calculator on a math test.  Problem is, are we 10 years old in this analogy or are we 18?  A 10 year old needs pencil and paper (no assistance) but an 18 year old can use a calculator because they are more advanced (this would be a more technical, anything goes that's not "hacking" tournament.)

Yeah, I wouldn't consider that cheating in the last set of rounds, but I understand the suggestion.  Personally, I applaud that effort.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@mbd39

i love adventure island, rad racer and kung fu. i enjoy the high score one loop rule. I understand some games get more difficult as the loops progress but trying to max points out of a single loop is more enjoyable imo. I would suggest capping the loops to the most difficult. If contra maxes in the fifth loop make that the cap.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Member · Posted
6 minutes ago, docile tapeworm said:

@mbd39

i love adventure island, rad racer and kung fu. i enjoy the high score one loop rule. I understand some games get more difficult as the loops progress but trying to max points out of a single loop is more enjoyable imo. I would suggest capping the loops to the most difficult. If contra maxes in the fifth loop make that the cap.

I understand. It's just that now that I can loop the score in Kung Fu I'd like to see a return to the old rules.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Member · Posted

Skinny, I've been playing a lot of Dragon Spirit lately and hope to beat it soon. You were right, it's great.

I understand this game is easy for people who are good at shooters, but it's a decent challenge for me. That ice stage took me a while to figure out and I'll still die there, and then those snake heads that pop up near the end of the under water stage...

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, 0xDEAFC0DE said:

I'll put what I find in spoilers if it helps.

I was just gonna say that...it's probably the "best of both worlds" option - you publicly disclose any information, but for those who don't want to know about it, it's hidden from view and won't ruin their experience.

And yeah, that Golf script was balls.  No way that should be legal going forward...while it's not cheating outright like a Game Genie would be (you at least have to actually execute correctly based on the info the script provided), it does take the bulk of the challenge away from the gamer.  At the time there was no precedent for such a thing, so I'm okay with how that round went, but it definitely shouldn't be legal going forward.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...