Sharedata Chiller NES Advertisement

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

4 minutes ago, Dr. Morbis said:

Yeah, I can't disagree; I only bought them twenty years ago because of Etler's list, so they've always been grandfathered in.  But they probably should only count with an asterisk, much like the 32x for Genesis.  Bottom line, if you love collecting NES games, why not pick them up as a cool little oddity on the side?  Plus it's the only way to play 250 Star Fantastic Dizzy!

And the completely unique-to-the-Aladdin Dizzy the Adventurer!  I agree it's a cool thing to get, but again, it's an artifact of Etler's List and not something that should be counted as an "official" NES release.  That said, it's only in my collection because of said list, so yeah

[ThePhleo | 2,185]

6 minutes ago, OptOut said:

You're in the MS paint art, what more do you want?!

 

 

10 minutes ago, Dr. Morbis said:

98% of the ones in collectors hands today are/were sealed unsold inventory.  A small fraction were sold on Home Shopping Network around 1994 (assuming they made at least a single sale - which is a conclusion I'm willing to jump to), so technically they were a legit release available during the NES era.

Great, I was SUPPOSED to be going on vacation on the 29th but I guess I'll be watching old clips of HSN to see if this is true now. (Jokes aside, I gotta dig up something to verify that...I really want to see how true this is)

[Dr. Morbis | 2,089]

12 minutes ago, ThePhleo said:

 

 

Great, I was SUPPOSED to be going on vacation on the 29th but I guess I'll be watching old clips of HSN to see if this is true now. (Jokes aside, I gotta dig up something to verify that...I really want to see how true this is)

Gaming Historian has a short clip of footage at the 4:14 mark of this video:

EDIT - looks like the footage is just of regular Camerica releases, so I'll leave it up to you to find something more solid, as my 30 seconds of willpower to continue this search will not be enough

 

Edited October 27, 2021 by Dr. Morbis

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

I honestly don't think the Aladdin specifically WAS released.  Another Etler artifact if you will.  But I'd love to see evidence to the contrary.

[ThePhleo | 2,185]

15 minutes ago, Dr. Morbis said:

Gaming Historian has a short clip of footage at the 4:14 mark of this video:

EDIT - looks like the footage is just of regular Camerica releases, so I'll leave it up to you to find something more solid, as my 30 seconds of willpower to continue this search will not be enough

 

That very video explains that it probably never was released as well. He also states there are no known advertisements for it besides trade show stuff.

Also, I COMPLETELY forgot that one of the dizzy games have extra stars to collect making it technically a different game since it has expanded content.

So…that’s TWO unreleased games for the PLATFORM.

[Tulpa | 3,510]

1 hour ago, Dr. Morbis said:

In fact, I can't think of a single NES game that came via mail as a loose cartridge. 

 

(I know it's a special case, but I just want to watch the thread burn for twenty more posts. And it does fit your statement as written.)

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

7 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

 

(I know it's a special case, but I just want to watch the thread burn for twenty more posts. And it does fit your statement as written.)

I thought that was a prize in a Nintendo Power contest.   Thought the grey carts were the only ones actually sold...

[Tulpa | 3,510]

It was a prize, or a giveaway at least.

I thought the grays got into the wild by being given to the finalists in the Los Angeles NWC/Powerfest event, and a few others by NOA and event employees.

I also remember one guy on NA who claimed to have swiped one lying on a table at one of the regional NWC events.

[Dr. Morbis | 2,089]

2 hours ago, Tulpa said:

 

(I know it's a special case, but I just want to watch the thread burn for twenty more posts. And it does fit your statement as written.)

You got me, technically as written, but you know damn well I meant that I can't think of another NES release that came via mail as a loose cartridge! 

[Dr. Morbis | 2,089]

2 hours ago, the_wizard_666 said:

I honestly don't think the Aladdin specifically WAS released.  Another Etler artifact if you will.  But I'd love to see evidence to the contrary.

That's probably correct, and I don't have the drive to do any sort of research to prove otherwise, so, much like the Sharedata Chiller, it should be listed as unreleased unless and until solid evidence is put forth to prove otherwise...

[fcgamer | 4,729]

53 minutes ago, Dr. Morbis said:

You got me, technically as written, but you know damn well I meant that I can't think of another NES release that came via mail as a loose cartridge! 

The game was released via the contest

[fcgamer | 4,729]

Got so much to say, another two hours before I get off work...

[fcgamer | 4,729]

13 hours ago, Dr. Morbis said:

FACT #4 - Hundreds or Thousands of AGCI Chiller carts exist, many with boxes and manuals and majority with SHAREDATA TITLE SCREENS!!!!!

So the title screen wasn't changed to reflect the new publisher, big whoop, that's common in this unlicensed stuff.

Let's take another example, Shockwave. 

I'm going to post some other thoughts later tonight, stay tuned everyone

[fcgamer | 4,729]

About the Aladdin Deck Enhancer Games:

I actually think I would be on board with considering them their own separate thing, just as I do for the Famicom disk system games, the N64DD, etc. 

For comparison's sake though, here are some Japanese carts that require special peripheral plug in carts to play. The baseball game just updates stats, like an expansion pack or patch, whereas the others are actual games. There's also a karaoke device with carts that also act as expansion packs, requiring a special peripheral to run.

Japanese collectors consider all of these necessary as part of a licensed Famicom full set, from my understanding. For me personally, the karaoke and baseball carts really do operate like an expansion pack or patch would, so I have a really hard time as counting them as anything more than that, an extra that completionists might want.

With the Datach carts, I've always counted them, though like the deck enhancer, I think a case could easily be made that these carts are their own thing. All were done by a single company too, making the comparison to the deck enhancer basically 1:1.

Edit: Mario game is there just to demonstrate the size difference

Edited October 27, 2021 by fcgamer

[fcgamer | 4,729]

@Dr. Morbis Your problem is that you try to compare apples and oranges in your arguments, and similarly that clouds your judgement and makes you dismiss anything outside of your narrow and inaccurate viewpoint.

Let's take a look at another pair of game companies, which are similar to Sharedata and AGCI: BIC and Realtek

Bic was started by a Taiwanense guy, they licensed the Codemasters games for famicom, as well as Videomation, they also did the PCB production for Camerica.

Later , the same boss decided to found Realtek, they rereleased some Codemasters games on famicom, developed / created the game genie, and released more Codemasters games for famicom.

Sadly I traded away some carts in the below pictures to a friend, in exchange for some homebrew carts. The reason for the trade, the carts were identical, though the boxes were different so I kept them.

My point is, every game collector in Poland (where these carts are popular) makes a distinction between the bic and Realtek releases. The companies were far more incestous than Sharedata and AGCI even, yet the games count as different items, since technically they came from different companies, even if one likely was a shell for legal purposes.

[fcgamer | 4,729]

You need to stop applying your licensed standard on these unlicensed games.

Furthermore, as someone who is trying to run a start up company on a shoestring budget, I totally understand and recognise why companies would cheap out and skip packaging for a mail order game, etc, especially when testing the waters. Do you have some experience with this and can relate?

Hell, even nwc had no box, neither did the SMB/dh pack in. Then there's the screens thing, and I made the video to demonstrate why the conclusions you were drawing are bogus.

We can play this game all day, and I'll always be able to pull out numerous examples from unlicensed companies, like AGCI and Sharedata, which matches what they did. On the other hand, you can only make weak arguments, "Well licensed companies with huge budgets did XYZ so if this game was a true release, Sharedata would have done the same.." honestly, did you ever stop and listen and think how dumb that sounds? 

 

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

2 hours ago, fcgamer said:

We can play this game all day, and I'll always be able to pull out numerous examples from unlicensed companies, like AGCI and Sharedata, which matches what they did. On the other hand, you can only make weak arguments, "Well licensed companies with huge budgets did XYZ so if this game was a true release, Sharedata would have done the same.." honestly, did you ever stop and listen and think how dumb that sounds?

Have you ever stopped to listen to your own arguments about how the magazine ads somehow "prove" the Sharadata version had an actual, unique, boxed release?  I've (slowly, in spurts, sometimes painfully) read all the way through this thread, and @Dr. Morbis is spot on, although sometimes overly enthusiastic about the point.  While the discovered ad (then ads) is a neat point, and lends itself to some theories about what went on behind the scenes with the Sharedata release of Chiller, it offers exactly zero in the form of factual evidence, proof, etc., that those carts actually made it out the door, directly to consumers, in any way, shape, or form.

It's been since the NA days that I followed the conversation, so I might have missed some actual evidence that got introduced at the end of it, but I feel the exact same way about your and @ThePhleo's insistence that Sachen games got actual distribution within the United States, to the point where they would/should be considered what was released at retail during the original lifetime of the NES.  Where are the pics of these things hanging on pegs in any store?  Where are the receipts and meticulously saved shipping envelopes of obsessive collectors who mail ordered them during that time?  Beyond ThePhleo's self-admitted very fuzzy, and very possibly incorrect childhood recollection of those carts hanging on pegs and, IIRC, a Chinese language page and ad from a magazine that could have been distributed to people in one or more of the various "Chinatowns," all I've ever seen on this topic is rampant speculation and perpetual, circular "woulda' coulda'" arguments, which isn't proof at all.

The dismissal of the recollections of an actual employee for the company (someone who would be considered an expert witness in a court, who would know what they did and how they did it, whose testimony would only be considered hearsay if their statement was "Well, Bob that also worked there said...") to fuel turning these theories of how the FIVE Sharedata Chiller copies ended up in collector's hands into facts is both ridiculous and despicable.  Facts are facts, and folks, you don't have enough of them to show distribution of the oddball 5-off thing that you've been circularly discussion feverishly for three days.  Speculate all you want, but do not try to pass off those best guesses as facts until you actually have the solid evidence to support it.  A statement from the shipping or packing manager at Sharedata at that time validating your claims would be such evidence, BTW, something that's absolutely missing here, with the only employment testimony being that those carts shouldn't have ever gotten into customer hands via normal channels.  You've done some great postulating and sleuthing, but you still haven't produced any factual proof, so hang it up until you do.

[fcgamer | 4,729]

37 minutes ago, darkchylde28 said:

A statement from the shipping or packing manager at Sharedata at that time validating your claims would be such evidence, BTW, something that's absolutely missing here, with the only employment testimony being that those carts shouldn't have ever gotten into customer hands via normal channels.  You've done some great postulating and sleuthing, but you still haven't produced any factual proof, so hang it up until you do.

Let's step back for a moment and look at that statement from the employee, who said he thought these weren't released. 

Oh wait, we can't, as the statement where the employee makes this claim has never turned up.  its been referenced by someone here, but I honestly don't remember ever having read that statement, even back in the day, so essentially the naysayers are arguing that the game wasn't released due to a phantom quote made twenty years after the fact. 

The article posted at the beginning of this thread was written by the owner of NES World, btw, something that isn't particularly clear in the posting.

[fcgamer | 4,729]

If you go look at the NES World articles, or any NES articles from the time (tsr's, etc) they all fall into the trap of making large claims with little evidence to offer support. It's why people still believe that Action 52 was made by a guy in a Floridian basement somewhere.

While a valuable resource for the time, pioneers in the collecting world, there's a lot of misinformation out there on the same level as the Stadium Events recall that might be false, the FS2 being a rental exclusive, etc. Hell, even the dynamic of America Video Entertainment changes a bit when it comes to light that Macronix was a Taiwanense chip company, but it's something no one even thought about until this past year.

 

[fcgamer | 4,729]

Also, regarding the employee phantom quote:

1. If we use the same logic, the Wallybear AGCI version should definitely "count". I remember the Nolan's actually rang someone up in the NA days confirming it's release.

2. Regarding employees being wrong, or maybe not wanting to admit something and thus changing the story - Dan Burke from Color Dreams claimed he had no idea about or involvement in Miss Peach World, despite his name appearing on the title screen. However, the game was obviously licensed to Hacker by CD as prototypes were found at the Wisdom Tree for this game.

3. Along with point 2, there are inconsistencies between the CEO of Samurai's story and other evidence, regarding whether Samurai had been selling bootleg games or not.

To conclude, it appears that we only accept employee statements when we like what the statement says, even if we've never actually seen the statement firsthand. 

Furthermore, despite there being numerous known cases where the employees were wrong in what they said regarding obscure points, we should take it as gospel, should it align with the case we so desperately want to be true.

 

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

20 hours ago, fcgamer said:

Let's step back for a moment and look at that statement from the employee, who said he thought these weren't released. 

Oh wait, we can't, as the statement where the employee makes this claim has never turned up.  its been referenced by someone here, but I honestly don't remember ever having read that statement, even back in the day, so essentially the naysayers are arguing that the game wasn't released due to a phantom quote made twenty years after the fact. 

The article posted at the beginning of this thread was written by the owner of NES World, btw, something that isn't particularly clear in the posting.

Ok, fine, let's throw out the statement from the employee mentioned until more information to confirm that statement (date, time, who contacted them, screenshots of an email, etc.) can be produced.  That changes nothing in regard to you not being able to produce tangible evidence that the Color Dreams sheathed Sharedata version of Chiller was ever distributed through any normal channel, neither the mail order ad from various issues of GamePro that recently surfaced, nor hanging on pegs in a store.  So again, several of you have put together a somewhat compelling theory about how those copies got out into the wild, but nothing conclusive, which is the whole point that @Dr. Morbis has been going around and around with you about.  No need to get all defensive and try to shift the focus onto the worthiness of evidence that does not prove the point you were trying to make this whole time.

20 hours ago, fcgamer said:

If you go look at the NES World articles, or any NES articles from the time (tsr's, etc) they all fall into the trap of making large claims with little evidence to offer support. It's why people still believe that Action 52 was made by a guy in a Floridian basement somewhere.

This statement is kind of hilarious given all the shit Dr. Morbis has been given in this thread for pointing out and holding strong to the idea that you and others shouldn't be stating that it's factual that the five-odd Sharedata Chiller copies known to exist were distributed via official channels (either the mail order ad most recently discovered or via standard distribution channels of the day).  This is literally the exact situation that the argument that the blue Sharedata Chillers came from the mail order ad fall into--little evidence to offer support.  An ad was found that could indicate how they got out, but nothing in the ad actually points this out, and, based on reading this thread in its entirety, to date, there isn't anyone who has come forward to offer an account of them having received one (boxed or loose) via the mail order offer presented early on.  So, as I said at the conclusion of my post, it's really time to move on from trying to present this theory as fact.

19 hours ago, fcgamer said:

Also, regarding the employee phantom quote:

1. If we use the same logic, the Wallybear AGCI version should definitely "count". I remember the Nolan's actually rang someone up in the NA days confirming it's release.

So if that was a thing, and you're dead set on making that statement as fact, why not present it as such, showing that it actually happened?  I wasn't involved in that conversation, nor have any recollection of it, so you're actually one more level deep than the "phantom" statement that you're suddenly, inexplicably hellbent on destroying.  In that case, someone (Dr. Morbis, perhaps) said that they remembered an employee statement about whether the Sharedata Chillers were distributed.  In your example, it's you saying that you remembered another membersaying that they remembered someone else saying something.  I mean, shit, if we're just going to phone this in and telephone game it, I'll be happy to provide as much "proof" regarding the numbers and distribution of Stadium Events and Flintstones 2 as anyone would like.

19 hours ago, fcgamer said:

2. Regarding employees being wrong, or maybe not wanting to admit something and thus changing the story - Dan Burke from Color Dreams claimed he had no idea about or involvement in Miss Peach World, despite his name appearing on the title screen. However, the game was obviously licensed to Hacker by CD as prototypes were found at the Wisdom Tree for this game.

I believe this was referenced earlier on in this thread, IIRC, but context is key.  What was Dan Burke from Color Dreams credited with on the game that he says he doesn't have any recollection about?  It's possible that whatever the game you're referring to is simply used some bit of generalized software he'd written for them (game engine, level/sprite design suite, etc.) and didn't have any direct involvement with it whatsoever.  Also, there's a distinct difference between "I don't know/recall" and "I do remember, and this is absolutely how we did it."  In order to prove an employee wrong about something, you'd have to find more statements from other relevant people who were saying something different than what the first one said.  Someone throwing a guy's name up on a credits screen isn't proof positive that the named guy was actually involved--credit is given erroneously all the time, ask any person who works in an office environment about that.

20 hours ago, fcgamer said:

3. Along with point 2, there are inconsistencies between the CEO of Samurai's story and other evidence, regarding whether Samurai had been selling bootleg games or not.

Who?  What?

20 hours ago, fcgamer said:

To conclude, it appears that we only accept employee statements when we like what the statement says, even if we've never actually seen the statement firsthand.

There's probably more than a grain of truth to this, which is why I didn't choose to fall on my sword defending the aforementioned relayed statement of a Sharedata employee regarding distribution of the blue Color Dreams clothed Sharedata Chiller carts.  And whether that statement is good or not does fuck all to prop up your belief that it's factual that those carts were distributed via normal distribution (either the mail order ad presented early in this thread of regular retail distribution channels).

20 hours ago, fcgamer said:

Furthermore, despite there being numerous known cases where the employees were wrong in what they said regarding obscure points, we should take it as gospel, should it align with the case we so desperately want to be true.

Two.  You presented two points.  I wouldn't classify that as "numerous."  I don't have a dog in any of this fight, I'm just pointing out that you're beating a dead horse and straight up wrong in trying to present the idea that the blue carts escaped as part of the mail order ads or via regular distribution as fact since you don't have any actual factual evidence of that occurring.  The mail order ad is definitely interesting, and leads to some great theories as to how those carts might have gotten out to the public (all five of them, again, not what I'd consider numerous), but far, far, far from being fact.  There's an enormous difference between saying "This is the best idea of how we believe these got out into the wild" and "This is how these got out into the wild."  So, once again, hang it up insofar as trying to present this idea as fact.

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

@darkchylde28 You just hit the nail on the head there.  I spent time researching a theory about how it could've got out.  I do want to reiterate that it is in no way meant to be anything more than that.  I was merely trying to show a possibility through the evidence we have, so that someone with more resources, connections, and/or willpower could put the time into finding further data to either debunk it or to prove it.  Sometimes all we have is a credible theory, much like rental only F2 or SE being recalled.  Those may have been debunked, but only because a credible theory existed that people wanted to prove or disprove for certainty's sake.  That's what's needed here - but it also needs to be done in as unbiased a way as possible so as not to taint the results.  While the theory is plausible, and in my opinion likely, that doesn't make it evidence of reality.  And sadly, the more time passes, the harder it is to find the information we need to figure it out 100%.

[Dr. Morbis | 2,089]

Well, I didn't expect @darkchylde28 or anyone else to drop in here with some actual logic, but thanks for that.  I had decided to stop stoking the fire with @fcgamer because his posts were filled with endless examples of random unlicensed junk from the other side of the world that have no relevance whatsoever to the actual topic (which involves an American businessman doing his best to make money in an American business environment based on the American values and society he was raised and lives in).  Seriously FC, nobody cares how some backwater Taiwanese shit unlicensed companies did their business thirty years ago.... NOBODY!!!  (and if one of you smart Alecks rings in here to say otherwise, I swear to God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

@fcgamer , either present some facts for a Sharedata Chiller release or let the thread die, but whatever you do, do not give me one more God forsaken example of some shitty-ass Taiwanese pirate company doing things as ass backwards as an fcgamer trying to make a coherent point....... pulease!

Edited October 29, 2021 by Dr. Morbis

[fcgamer | 4,729]

5 hours ago, darkchylde28 said:

The mail order ad is definitely interesting, and leads to some great theories as to how those carts might have gotten out to the public (all five of them, again, not what I'd consider numerous), but far, far, far from being fact.  There's an enormous difference between saying "This is the best idea of how we believe these got out into the wild" and "This is how these got out into the wild."  So, once again, hang it up insofar as trying to present this idea as fact.

I browsed your above post quickly, I'm at work and can't respond properly; however, here's my thoughts on the above:

My issue with people like @Dr. MorbisIs that all of their arguments are just theories as well, going so far at one point to say "if you called the number, you would have gotten the gray AGCI cart.

What makes his theories and mine any different? The blue Chiller cart exists, as a seemingly retail / final cart.

The theories for camp Chiller Blue seem reasonable, despite little evidence, whereas the crap that Morbis keeps spewing out honestly are just his opinions, which keep getting disproved time and time again when compared to industry standards of that time. 

Did ShareData just decide to go greedy one day and up the price of the Gray AGCI carts by $10? It's possible, for example, but it seems like a large stretch. The other explanation, that they upped the price after making their own molds, boxes, etc seems much more likely.

[fcgamer | 4,729]

22 minutes ago, Dr. Morbis said:

Well, I didn't expect @darkchylde28 or anyone else to drop in here with some actual logic, but thanks for that.  I had decided to stop stoking the fire with @fcgamer because his posts were filled with endless examples of random unlicensed junk from the other side of the world that have no relevance whatsoever to the actual topic (which involves an American businessman doing his best to make money in an American business environment based on the American values and society he was raised and lives in).  Seriously FC, nobody cares how some backwater Taiwanese shit unlicensed companies did their business thirty years ago.... NOBODY!!!  (and if one of you smart Alecks rings in here to say otherwise, I swear to God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

@fcgamer , either present some facts for a Sharedata Chiller release or let the thread die, but whatever you do, do not give me one more God forsaken example of some shitty-ass Taiwanese pirate company doing things as ass backwards as an fcgamer trying to make a coherent point....... pulease!

AGCI PCBs were manufactured in Taiwan

It all ties in together bro , your idea if trying to compare what an unlicensed budget company does to top tier licensed companies just shows a bit of ignorance, total apples and oranges.

It becomes especially relevant as Sharedata themselves were even licensing their games out to South Korean company.

These companies were all involved together, so whether 60 pins or 72, these guys were all in bed together,