Sharedata Chiller NES Advertisement

[Dr. Morbis | 2,090]

7 minutes ago, the_wizard_666 said:

He posted some article snips earlier in the thread.  I quoted it on this page so you can see it.  I also have the NYT article he's mentioning.

That said, they point more to the financial state of the company long after the fact, and are pretty irrelevant to the Chiller debate (although I still love seeing it as it's gonna help fill some gaps).

@fcgamer, I'll be a bit blunt here.  Some of the stuff you post really comes off as a jumbled mess of thoughts.  There's definitely good information to be had there, but you aren't exactly presenting it in ways that are well thought out.  I admire your passion, but you might want to reread posts before making them, just to make sure everything is presented in the way you intend it to be perceived.

Also, to both of you, the hostility is counterproductive.  We really all want the same thing here - for the truth to come out.  Let's leave the personal shit out of it, and debate in a civil fashion.  You don't change minds by screaming "you're wrong" and bonking someone on the head.  You do it by framing well thought out arguments, putting facts and sources on the table, and working to debunk theories instead of just being argumentative.  It's hard enough to piece this together with all the data being drowned out by chaff.

Agreed on all points.  Here's some important data for you:

17 minutes ago, Dr. Morbis said:

-Five known copies
-eprom boards while production run was mask roms
-100% of cart owners in this thread (representing ~40% of overall worldwide owners) acquired from inside source

Draw your own conclusions; I've already drawn mine...

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

1 minute ago, Dr. Morbis said:

Agreed on all points.  Here's some important data for you:

Draw your own conclusions; I've already drawn mine...

I'm taking all points, and refining as necessary.  My current theory (aka not to be taken as fact in any way) would be that:

ShareData planned to release the game.  They took out the ads, and in the month or two before it hit the press, they were working with Color Dreams to manufacture their games.
Color Dreams made some Chiller carts for ShareData to use.
Meanwhile, ShareData was, for indeterminate reasons, forming AGCI to publish their NES games.
This part is unclear - were the carts sent back to Color Dreams?  Were they used to fill orders that popped up before AGCI was created?  The circumstantial evidence we do have points to the former.
Strangely, aside from the shells and front labels, and using mask ROMs, AGCI Chiller is otherwise manufactured using Color Dreams stock, implying that ShareData/AGCI used their parts, at least until they could source their own AGCI branded boards.  I'd have to double check this, but the back labels also appear to be Color Dreams stock.
Some Color Dreams employees kept (or possibly made) Chiller carts  for themselves.  This may have been done without ShareData's knowledge.

So the odds here are that they were NOT released at a retail level, though nothing can be definitively proven one way or another.  As it sits now, there is no way anyone could add it to the retail release list without more information.  Start scouring the archives folks!

[fcgamer | 4,729]

25 minutes ago, Dr. Morbis said:

Thanks for the lesson!

Now to put it all in perspective:

-Five known copies
-eprom boards while production run was mask roms
-100% of cart owners in this thread (representing ~40% of overall worldwide owners) acquired from inside source

Come on, guys!  Literally the only reason on planet earth that this thread even exists is because of the professional looking labels.  Take away those labels, and the other 99999999 thousand facts surrounding this cart point directly to it being a demo/proto.

GO DO SOME RESEARCH AND THEN COME BACK WITH NEW INFO RATHER THAN THE HAIL MARY THEORIES YOU KEEP PRESENTING OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER......   please?

You are starting to get a bit irritating, and I have the patience of a saint.

I just got done looking at a sampling of Color Dreams games on the boot god website. From what I can tell, Color Dreams' switch from blue shells to black shells also corresponds pretty much spot-on with their switch from the old PCBs with eproms to their new PCBs with mask ROMs.

I mention this as it would have been mid to late 90s, I suspect, which would have also been the time American Game Cartridges switched PCB designs to their own PCBs, which ultimately just are a copy of the second version of Color Dreams' PCBs.

On the Boot God site, for the Chiller entry, it also has the following text, for what it's worth: "Est First Run May 1990"

 

[fcgamer | 4,729]

Another thing I noticed: in the ShareData chiller, the chip codes are scratched off.

From my understanding, Color Dreams had done thus themselves, as this was relating to the lockout chip bypass mechanism that they created.

Not really sure why they would scrub the code from a demo cartridge not leaving the company's hands, but whatever.

[Dr. Morbis | 2,090]

54 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

You are starting to get a bit irritating, and I have the patience of a saint.

I just got done looking at a sampling of Color Dreams games on the boot god website. From what I can tell, Color Dreams' switch from blue shells to black shells also corresponds pretty much spot-on with their switch from the old PCBs with eproms to their new PCBs with mask ROMs.

I mention this as it would have been mid to late 90s, I suspect, which would have also been the time American Game Cartridges switched PCB designs to their own PCBs, which ultimately just are a copy of the second version of Color Dreams' PCBs.

On the Boot God site, for the Chiller entry, it also has the following text, for what it's worth: "Est First Run May 1990"

 

That's okay, you've been irritating since 2006, right around the time this photo was taken

EDIT: Picture removed by the request of a very irritating VGS member.

Look, the only thing even hinting at this being a retail release is the top quality label.  Literally all the rest of the circumstantial evidence on the planet points towards this NOT being "released."

Edited October 30, 2021 by Dr. Morbis

[fcgamer | 4,729]

6 minutes ago, the_wizard_666 said:

Some Color Dreams employees kept (or possibly made) Chiller carts  for themselves.  This may have been done without ShareData's knowledge.

I would like to disbute this claim, with all due respect.

The latter half has no facts to back it up, and the earlier half feels a bit shaky too.

It'd be better to just present the facts, imo.

[fcgamer | 4,729]

@Dr. MorbisReported, no need to post personal photos / information of people without their consent.

That's a low you didn't have to stoop to.

[Dr. Morbis | 2,090]

8 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

You are starting to get a bit irritating, and I have the patience of a saint.

 

...And out of curiosity, why would you be irritated by my posting of three distinct facts directly related to the topic at hand?  wouldn't it be a little more irritating to have to read random theories about Color Dreams chips being scrubbed, which have no bearing whatsoever on the topic at hand ?????

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

3 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

You are starting to get a bit irritating, and I have the patience of a saint.

I just got done looking at a sampling of Color Dreams games on the boot god website. From what I can tell, Color Dreams' switch from blue shells to black shells also corresponds pretty much spot-on with their switch from the old PCBs with eproms to their new PCBs with mask ROMs.

I mention this as it would have been mid to late 90s, I suspect, which would have also been the time American Game Cartridges switched PCB designs to their own PCBs, which ultimately just are a copy of the second version of Color Dreams' PCBs.

On the Boot God site, for the Chiller entry, it also has the following text, for what it's worth: "Est First Run May 1990"

 

That's some solid info.  It could be that this answers why AGCI made their own carts in the first place. 

 

2 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

Another thing I noticed: in the ShareData chiller, the chip codes are scratched off.

From my understanding, Color Dreams had done thus themselves, as this was relating to the lockout chip bypass mechanism that they created.

Not really sure why they would scrub the code from a demo cartridge not leaving the company's hands, but whatever.

 

If they were sending copies to ShareData, then they were leaving the company's hands...

 

Just now, fcgamer said:

I would like to disbute this claim, with all due respect.

The latter half has no facts to back it up, and the earlier half feels a bit shaky too.

It'd be better to just present the facts, imo.

First, I said at the start of that post that it was not intended to be taken as fact, but as my ruminations on the subject based on the evidence provided so far.  That said, Phil Mikkelson is potentially the source of one cart, and he was a Color Dreams employee at the time.  Thus at least one CD employee ended up with a ShareData Chiller cart.  Clearly, this means he kept the cart - whether or not it was made for him specifically or if he took one from what was to be sent to Sharedata, either way he ended up with a cart that he probably shouldn't have had.  So the statement stands.

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

...is that a Game Axe Color?  So, there's at least two of us here that own(ed) one?

[Dr. Morbis | 2,090]

4 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

@Dr. MorbisReported, no need to post personal photos / information of people without their consent.

That's a low you didn't have to stoop to.

You personally called me irritating... you    YOU    YOU!!!!!

EDIT... and you did so while quoting a post that was 100% on topic and had valid, pertinent info.  Plus I got the pic off NA... I can't even validate who it is....

Edited October 30, 2021 by Dr. Morbis

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

2 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

@Dr. MorbisReported, no need to post personal photos / information of people without their consent.

That's a low you didn't have to stoop to.

To be fair, he probably found that picture through a public entity.  Granted he shouldn't be reposting it, but in fairness you let that picture out into the public record.

1 minute ago, Dr. Morbis said:

...And out of curiosity, why would you be irritated by my posting of three distinct facts directly related to the topic at hand?  wouldn't it be a little more irritating to have to read random theories about Color Dreams chips being scrubbed, which have no bearing whatsoever on the topic at hand ?????

The chips being scrubbed do have bearing though.  It shows that they didn't want to just give trade secrets to ShareData...like, y'know, who their suppliers were and whatnot.  It's actually very relevant data.

[Dr. Morbis | 2,090]

1 minute ago, the_wizard_666 said:

To be fair, he probably found that picture through a public entity.  Granted he shouldn't be reposting it, but in fairness you let that picture out into the public record.

The chips being scrubbed do have bearing though.  It shows that they didn't want to just give trade secrets to ShareData...like, y'know, who their suppliers were and whatnot.  It's actually very relevant data.

I collect arcade games and pcbs and chip scrubbing is/was very common practice in the industry, dating back to Pong. This is nothing unusual or out of place, especially for an unlicensed company...

[fcgamer | 4,729]

@the_wizard_666The New York Times article I sent you is contemporary with the GamePro adverts, being printed towards the end of March of 1990.

Perhaps the article is a bit messy since it references November and December and stuff like that, but the references are to the previous year, in 1989.

Therefore the blurb about the new NES venture definitely relates to this topic - ShareData was struggling financially, and it appears that's possibly the reason for them moving to NES games.

I found another article later mentioning that after AGCI filed for bankruptcy or whatever, ShareData was one of the companies involved trying to get money or whatever. I don't remember the specifics as I saw it late last night, around 3 AM. It was behind a paywall though so I couldn't read the whole thing.

Between both articles, I personally got the feeling that ShareData set up AGCI as a way of removing financial liabilities from themselves during their own financial troubles, but at this point it's just my personal speculation.

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

2 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

Between both articles, I personally got the feeling that ShareData set up AGCI as a way of removing financial liabilities from themselves during their own financial troubles, but at this point it's just my personal speculation.

Based on the injunction Nintendo got against them basically immediately following the public revelation that Sharedata was planning to release unlicensed games for the NES, I'd wager it was also to quickly bypass any further hurdles Nintendo might want to throw their way.  Pretty hard to stop Sharedata from releasing NES games if they're actually having their subsidiary do it for them.

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

5 minutes ago, Dr. Morbis said:

I can't even validate who it is....

You are a terrible liar dude.  Just edit the picture out, it's entirely unnecessary, and clearly he doesn't want it out there.

 

1 minute ago, Dr. Morbis said:

I collect arcade games and pcbs and chip scrubbing is/was very common practice in the industry, dating back to Pong. This is nothing unusual or out of place, especially for an unlicensed company...

Yeah, but it's NOT common in the NES realm.  Color Dreams was manufacturing these carts for ShareData.  If I were ShareData, I'd be trying to glean every bit of info that I could off of it so I could source the parts directly instead of through a middleman.  And if I were Color Dreams, I would do everything I could to make that as difficult as possible.  It's pertinent data that would hint at the purpose of the carts.  If you weren't just blindly hostile to the person who posted it, you might've seen that connection yourself.

 

3 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

@the_wizard_666The New York Times article I sent you is contemporary with the GamePro adverts, being printed towards the end of March of 1990.

Perhaps the article is a bit messy since it references November and December and stuff like that, but the references are to the previous year, in 1989.

Therefore the blurb about the new NES venture definitely relates to this topic - ShareData was struggling financially, and it appears that's possibly the reason for them moving to NES games.

I found another article later mentioning that after AGCI filed for bankruptcy or whatever, ShareData was one of the companies involved trying to get money or whatever. I don't remember the specifics as I saw it late last night, around 3 AM. It was behind a paywall though so I couldn't read the whole thing.

Between both articles, I personally got the feeling that ShareData set up AGCI as a way of removing financial liabilities from themselves during their own financial troubles, but at this point it's just my personal speculation.

I haven't actually read through the NYT article yet, although I did a bit of editing to make it readable (copy/pasted into Word and deleted the adverts).  I was referring to the other snippets you'd posted.  Or were they from the same article?  That may be part of the confusion on my part

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

Just now, darkchylde28 said:

Based on the injunction Nintendo got against them basically immediately following the public revelation that Sharedata was planning to release unlicensed games for the NES, I'd wager it was also to quickly bypass any further hurdles Nintendo might want to throw their way.  Pretty hard to stop Sharedata from releasing NES games if they're actually having their subsidiary do it for them.

It does make me wonder why the ad was kept up for four months, including a revision after the first two. Gonna have to dig through some court records and shit I guess.

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

6 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

I found another article later mentioning that after AGCI filed for bankruptcy or whatever, ShareData was one of the companies involved trying to get money or whatever. I don't remember the specifics as I saw it late last night, around 3 AM. It was behind a paywall though so I couldn't read the whole thing.

FYI (and for anybody else who's interested), most online paywalls that aren't truly paywalls ("You've reached your maximum articles," "subscribe to see more," etc. versus truly seeing nothing before logging in) can be defeated quickly by a browser plugin called "Disable Javascript."  I use Firefox and it puts a little iPhone-esque green button slider in my top task bar which I just slide to "off" (red) whenever I run into something like NYT, my local paper, etc., that tries to prevent me from reading something they've otherwise put up for public consumption.

[fcgamer | 4,729]

8 minutes ago, the_wizard_666 said:

That's some solid info.  It could be that this answers why AGCI made their own carts in the first place. 

 

If they were sending copies to ShareData, then they were leaving the company's hands...

 

First, I said at the start of that post that it was not intended to be taken as fact, but as my ruminations on the subject based on the evidence provided so far.  That said, Phil Mikkelson is potentially the source of one cart, and he was a Color Dreams employee at the time.  Thus at least one CD employee ended up with a ShareData Chiller cart.  Clearly, this means he kept the cart - whether or not it was made for him specifically or if he took one from what was to be sent to Sharedata, either way he ended up with a cart that he probably shouldn't have had.  So the statement stands.

I think it's more likely that Color Dreams handled the assembly / production of the blue Chillers, and that ShareData had nothing to do with it in that aspect. This type of scenario happens all the time in manufacturing.

Regarding Mikkelsen, he was involved at Color Dreams and at American Video Entertainment. People in his sphere had industry connections to AGCI, ShareData, Tengen, Sachen, IdeaTek, C&E, etc - all the unlicensed big names of the time.

This is quite normal, industry folks don't live in a bubble. My point is that he found the cart in a box of his junk from his NES game dev days, who knows why he had it, but I'd honestly imagine that it's more likely it was just lying around randomly when he packed his bags.

[Dr. Morbis | 2,090]

2 minutes ago, the_wizard_666 said:

Yeah, but it's NOT common in the NES realm.  Color Dreams was manufacturing these carts for ShareData.  If I were ShareData, I'd be trying to glean every bit of info that I could off of it so I could source the parts directly instead of through a middleman.  And if I were Color Dreams, I would do everything I could to make that as difficult as possible.  It's pertinent data that would hint at the purpose of the carts.  If you weren't just blindly hostile to the person who posted it, you might've seen that connection yourself.

Well, if you're intent on turning over every single rock in your quest for new information, then take this chip scrubbing and run with it   I hope we learn a lot from your research, but my only fear is that you will "have" to find proof of this game's release in order to validate said research, at which point you will have lost sight of what you were even searching for to begin with:  THE TRUTH.

Also, if you never find proof of this game's "release," how will you ever know when to stop?  How deep will you dig?  When will you give up?  Hell if I know, but I hope you uncover some cool new information in your travels...

Peace

[fcgamer | 4,729]

16 minutes ago, darkchylde28 said:

...is that a Game Axe Color?  So, there's at least two of us here that own(ed) one?

Yeah it is a Game Axe Color. Nice to know I'm not the only one here who had one

[fcgamer | 4,729]

17 minutes ago, Dr. Morbis said:

You personally called me irritating... you    YOU    YOU!!!!!

EDIT... and you did so while quoting a post that was 100% on topic and had valid, pertinent info.  Plus I got the pic off NA... I can't even validate who it is....

Remove the pic, I already reported you for harassment BTW. 

As mentioned earlier, no need to sink to that level of posting personal pictures of members from 20 years ago.

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

Just now, fcgamer said:

I think it's more likely that Color Dreams handled the assembly / production of the blue Chillers, and that ShareData had nothing to do with it in that aspect. This type of scenario happens all the time in manufacturing.

Regarding Mikkelsen, he was involved at Color Dreams and at American Video Entertainment. People in his sphere had industry connections to AGCI, ShareData, Tengen, Sachen, IdeaTek, C&E, etc - all the unlicensed big names of the time.

This is quite normal, industry folks don't live in a bubble. My point is that he found the cart in a box of his junk from his NES game dev days, who knows why he had it, but I'd honestly imagine that it's more likely it was just lying around randomly when he packed his bags.

So tell me how exactly my statement is wrong?  He kept a cart.  It's not known whether Sharedata knew he did, but odds are they didn't.  I suggested that he (and probably other) CD employees may have had carts made for them to keep because there is always a possibility that this was done.  It's technically theft, so there won't be any evidence about it, but the possibility is there.  I think it's more likely that they're Sharedata rejects, but there's no way to know that for certain.

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

2 minutes ago, the_wizard_666 said:

It does make me wonder why the ad was kept up for four months, including a revision after the first two. Gonna have to dig through some court records and shit I guess.

I'm also wondering if their injunction might not be pseudo-related to their action(s) against Atari over the Tengen business with Tetris.  Jeopardy, Wheel of Fortune, etc., were being published on the NES by GameTek (IIRC), so perhaps Nintendo was just creating precedence for their position in the Tetris case where they had the console rights but Atari had different video game rights.  Sharedata clearly had the personal computer rights to those titles, and had for many years at that point, so why not cut them off at the knees before they could publish a competing product without license and potentially muddy the waters for Nintendo's plans to sue the pants off of Atari?  Pure speculation, but it lines up time-wise in regard to them beginning to build a case.