Dr. Morbis | 2,088 Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 6 minutes ago, Code Monkey said: Your delivery leaves a lot to be desired but good point. I'll tell you what probably happened: that ad garnered a lot of sales, and each of those kids received an AGCI Chiller, becaues that's what Sharedata had moved onto by the time the ad ran and they were ready to fill out the orders they had received... One aspect a lot of you guys are forgetting about is lead times - ever wonder why there's sometimes such a huge disconnect between boxart and manual text and actual gameplay? It's because of the necessary lead times to put it all together, and advertising is no different. That ad in the first post was probably composed and sent to GamePro before Sharedata decided to go the AGCI route with their entry into the video game market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePhleo | 2,184 Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 I think I get where you’re coming from now. I’ll bow out for now because you raise some good points. While I do *want* this to be added to the list desperately, I also don’t want my list to be flimsy. (It’s why I’ve ejected Cheetahmen II, and the 7 Aladdin games) and why I treat all unlicensed publishers as their own sets instead of one unified group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fcgamer | 4,719 Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 It's quite rich that the guy talking about lead times also believes that subsidiaries and parent / holding companies are exactly the same thing 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_wizard_666 | 1,325 Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 1 hour ago, Dr. Morbis said: Chiller's ad was a FULL PAGE AD IN GAMEPRO, not exactly comparable to your Atari examples. You're telling me that you believe a full page ad in a leading contemporary game magazine garnered no more than a couple of sales? Come on man... March of 1990 was issue #8. I wouldn't call that a "leading" magazine. EGM was already around for a few months longer (they started bimonthly, whereas Gamepro seems to have been monthly right off the hop, hence why both were on issue 8 at that time), and Nintendo Power was on issue 11. Sure Gamepro was my pick for the best of the bunch (nostalgia goggles), but I wouldn't say they were "leading" anything. I scanned through EGM and found no ads in any of the issues surrounding that time frame, and I haven't been able to find scans of Gamepro to leaf through to see if it was a one-issue ad or a multi-issue one. My guess is that Sharedata just chose whichever mag would be cheapest to run the ad in, as aside from NP there was no clear winner in terms of distribution. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_wizard_666 | 1,325 Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 (edited) So I have confirmed the ad from Gamepro #8 also appears in Gamepro #7, and in Gamepro #9 the ad showed the "Two New Titles" bubble for the first time. So this is far from a one-shot, they were advertising Sharedata Chiller for at least three months. EDIT: GamePro #7 is confirmed as the first appearance. Going through later issues to see when/if it changed to AGCI, or if it just stopped existing. EDIT 2: I have confirmed that the ad also appears in issue 10, but then stopped for at least two months after. Fun note though - the 12th issue contains an article about Hellraiser by Color Dreams. So in conclusion, Sharedata had ads in FOUR ISSUES of Gamepro advertising Chiller for sale via their phone number. That's potentially huge, as if they had stopped production they likely wouldn't have kept paying for the ads. Also, being that the issues were on shelves as much as a month prior to the print date, we can safely assume January through April 1990 as when the copies were sold. Now to find when/if AGCI put out ads... Edited October 26, 2021 by the_wizard_666 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Morbis | 2,088 Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 1 hour ago, fcgamer said: It's quite rich that the guy talking about lead times also believes that subsidiaries and parent / holding companies are exactly the same thing I never said that. Sometimes they are the same, sometimes they are wildly different - it depends on the situation. This isn't a case of Sega coming to America and wanting in on the arcade market and buying an already existing company (Gremlin) that's been doing their own thing for years; this is literally a case of a company creating a particular type of branding for particular video game releases just like Konami did with Ultra. Check out Konami's address in a NES manual sometime, then compare it to Ultra Games address..... they are EXACTLY THE SAME! On paper, they were two different companies, but in reality it was just branding. This is the kind of situation Sharedata would've had with AGCI - they're not going to rent out a whole new location and hire new staff, etc, etc... it was JUST BRANDING FOR THEIR VIDEO GAME RELEASES!!!!! I really hate arguing with you @fcgamer because you always take shit down to the lowest level and make me explain everything as if you were a three year old. I don't know if you're trolling me or what but I almost want to block you.... but I won't 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_wizard_666 | 1,325 Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 More fun shit: Issue 17 (December 1990) has an ad from Color Dreams for Hellraiser, along with Happy Camper and a couple other games that I can't seem to make out (but are definitely unreleased). This may have been the death throes of Color Dreams... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Morbis | 2,088 Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 31 minutes ago, the_wizard_666 said: So in conclusion, Sharedata had ads in FOUR ISSUES of Gamepro advertising Chiller for sale via their phone number. That's potentially huge, as if they had stopped production they likely wouldn't have kept paying for the ads. Also, being that the issues were on shelves as much as a month prior to the print date, we can safely assume January through April 1990 as when the copies were sold. Now to find when/if AGCI put out ads... That's huge... hahaha, Sharedata IS AGCI.... how are you missing this? Remember the end of Ace Ventura? This is what's happening and you just don't get it.... of course the ads stayed up for subsequent months because the game was selling well!!! When you called that number you got an AGCI Chiller! Why would they pay to make a new ad? Think like a business for one second, and maybe you'll begin to understand: Sharedata IS AGCI AGCI IS Sharedata Sharedata IS AGCI AGCI IS Sharedata Sharedata IS AGCI AGCI IS Sharedata Don't you get it?!?!?!!?!? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_wizard_666 | 1,325 Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 Just now, Dr. Morbis said: That's huge... hahaha, Sharedata IS AGCI.... how are you missing this? Remember the end of Ace Ventura? This is what's happening and you just don't get it.... of course the ads stayed up for subsequent months because the game was selling well!!! When you called that number you got an AGCI Chiller! Why would they pay to make a new ad? Think like a business for one second, and maybe you'll begin to understand: Sharedata IS AGCI AGCI IS Sharedata Sharedata IS AGCI AGCI IS Sharedata Sharedata IS AGCI AGCI IS Sharedata Don't you get it?!?!?!!?!? SHAREDATA HADN'T CREATED AGCI YET. Actually, I don't know that for sure...TO THE ARCHIVES! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Morbis | 2,088 Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 (edited) 2 minutes ago, the_wizard_666 said: SHAREDATA HADN'T CREATED AGCI YET. When they made the ad, no; when they were filling the orders that the ad brought in, obviously yes. I feel like I'm teaching kindergarten over here... Edited October 26, 2021 by Dr. Morbis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Morbis | 2,088 Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, the_wizard_666 said: More fun shit: Issue 17 (December 1990) has an ad from Color Dreams for Hellraiser, along with Happy Camper and a couple other games that I can't seem to make out (but are definitely unreleased). This may have been the death throes of Color Dreams... Those games now all officially count as releases for @Code Monkey It says "Order Today!" and there's a phone number and everything!!!!!! OMG OMG OMG.... Someone notify @ThePhleo .... NEW GAMES FOR HIS LIST!!!!!!! OMG OMG OMG OMG Edited October 26, 2021 by Dr. Morbis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePhleo | 2,184 Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 4 minutes ago, Dr. Morbis said: Those games now all officially count as releases for @Code Monkey Not an order form! It says coming soon! But cmon you *dont* want this on the list almost as much as I DO want it on the list. Let’s have an open mind! … Also if I could read those better they’d go on my “Unreleased Unlicensed” list… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Morbis | 2,088 Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 1 minute ago, ThePhleo said: Not an order form! It says coming soon! But cmon you *dont* want this on the list almost as much as I DO want it on the list. Let’s have an open mind! … Also if I could read those better they’d go on my “Unreleased Unlicensed” list… I'd like your list to be an accurate representation of the reality of NES releases, nothing more, nothing less... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Morbis | 2,088 Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, ThePhleo said: Not an order form! It says coming soon! It says coming soon to retailers but order TODAY! You're getting down to semantics now to try and keep this argument alive, while wiz is probably balls deep in internet archive searches as we speak, desperately trying to find a single shred of evidence to go his way too.... @Gloves can you please make a face palm reaction to tag posts with? I really really need one right now... Edited October 26, 2021 by Dr. Morbis 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid | 424 Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 27 minutes ago, the_wizard_666 said: More fun shit: Issue 17 (December 1990) has an ad from Color Dreams for Hellraiser, along with Happy Camper and a couple other games that I can't seem to make out (but are definitely unreleased). This may have been the death throes of Color Dreams... One game is starblade https://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/starblade 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_wizard_666 | 1,325 Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 12 minutes ago, Dr. Morbis said: It says coming soon to retailers but order TODAY! You're getting down to semantics now to try and keep this argument alive, while wiz is probably balls deep in internet archive searches as we speak, desperately trying to find a single shred of evidence to go his way too.... @Gloves can you please make a face palm reaction to tag posts with? I really really need one right now... Actually I'm balls deep in Arizona State business records searches, looking for any kind of legal documents. Nothing so far. Starting there because, well, AGCI had an Arizona address 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePhleo | 2,184 Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 So what *are* the facts we can dig up. We need to know the corporate structure of Sharedata, American Game Cartridges, and American Video Entertainment to get the full picture. Is it a shell company? Is it a subsidiary with its own team? Is it wholly owned by Sharedata? We know that these Sharedata cartridges show up randomly once every few years with no rhyme or reason as to why. We know a box and manual has yet to surface. But it might not be necessary since it’s a mail order item. We know it’s *something* since it had a fancy production label, and custom code. We know it’s significantly rarer than AGCI version…which itself is a rarity. We know it was advertised as SHAREDATA chiller for at least four magazine print runs. So. What is Sharedata Chiller!? Even the earliest of sources say that it’s a part of a “small batch”. But that’s word of mouth. We need actual facts. Does anyone have clear board photos of it? Then to add onto that, does anyone have board photos of other Sharedata / AGCI working prototypes and whether or not they’re different from final production copies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_wizard_666 | 1,325 Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 12 minutes ago, ThePhleo said: So what *are* the facts we can dig up. We need to know the corporate structure of Sharedata, American Game Cartridges, and American Video Entertainment to get the full picture. Is it a shell company? Is it a subsidiary with its own team? Is it wholly owned by Sharedata? We know that these Sharedata cartridges show up randomly once every few years with no rhyme or reason as to why. We know a box and manual has yet to surface. But it might not be necessary since it’s a mail order item. We know it’s *something* since it had a fancy production label, and custom code. We know it’s significantly rarer than AGCI version…which itself is a rarity. We know it was advertised as SHAREDATA chiller for at least four magazine print runs. So. What is Sharedata Chiller!? Even the earliest of sources say that it’s a part of a “small batch”. But that’s word of mouth. We need actual facts. Does anyone have clear board photos of it? Then to add onto that, does anyone have board photos of other Sharedata / AGCI working prototypes and whether or not they’re different from final production copies? Apparently Sharedata was listed as a creditor when AGCI went bankrupt. That's telling in a way, as it suggests that they were financing AGCI, but not really owning them, but who knows. Finding the corporate data is pretty much the only conclusive way to determine it. Also, AVE has nothing to do with Sharedata and AGCI other than Richard Frick being with them until February, when he formed AVE and bought the rights to Wally Bear from AGCI. So we can more or less leave them out of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fcgamer | 4,719 Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 26 minutes ago, ThePhleo said: So what *are* the facts we can dig up. We need to know the corporate structure of Sharedata, American Game Cartridges, and American Video Entertainment to get the full picture. Is it a shell company? Is it a subsidiary with its own team? Is it wholly owned by Sharedata? We know that these Sharedata cartridges show up randomly once every few years with no rhyme or reason as to why. We know a box and manual has yet to surface. But it might not be necessary since it’s a mail order item. We know it’s *something* since it had a fancy production label, and custom code. We know it’s significantly rarer than AGCI version…which itself is a rarity. We know it was advertised as SHAREDATA chiller for at least four magazine print runs. So. What is Sharedata Chiller!? Even the earliest of sources say that it’s a part of a “small batch”. But that’s word of mouth. We need actual facts. Does anyone have clear board photos of it? Then to add onto that, does anyone have board photos of other Sharedata / AGCI working prototypes and whether or not they’re different from final production copies? American Video Entertainment was a subsidiary of the Taiwanense chip company Macronix, which explains the reason Nintendo wanted nothing to do with them. The company Ave was formed to get macronix' chips in NES games, and likely the bosses there were receiving kickbacks and red envelopes from Sachen et all to publish the games in the states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Morbis | 2,088 Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 38 minutes ago, ThePhleo said: Does anyone have clear board photos of it? Then to add onto that, does anyone have board photos of other Sharedata / AGCI working prototypes and whether or not they’re different from final production copies? I would *love* to see pcb pics of the Shardata version. That could tell us something right there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OptOut | 8,881 Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 Awesome thread, bravo!!! You guys are doing great, keep it up!!! 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_wizard_666 | 1,325 Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 52 minutes ago, Dr. Morbis said: Those games now all officially count as releases for @Code Monkey It says "Order Today!" and there's a phone number and everything!!!!!! OMG OMG OMG.... Someone notify @ThePhleo .... NEW GAMES FOR HIS LIST!!!!!!! OMG OMG OMG OMG The difference is that it says "Coming Soon" VERY clearly on the advert. Neither version of the Chiller advert states anything about it being a forthcoming release - in fact, it notes forthcoming releases in the later version of the ad. That doesn't in and of itself prove anything, but it does imply that at least some copies were ready to distribute. Basically, we need to find concrete evidence of when AGCI became a thing. And so far I'm having zero luck, mostly cuz I have absolutely no idea how to find the evidence. But I'm still searching... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fcgamer | 4,719 Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 5 minutes ago, the_wizard_666 said: The difference is that it says "Coming Soon" VERY clearly on the advert. Neither version of the Chiller advert states anything about it being a forthcoming release - in fact, it notes forthcoming releases in the later version of the ad. That doesn't in and of itself prove anything, but it does imply that at least some copies were ready to distribute. Basically, we need to find concrete evidence of when AGCI became a thing. And so far I'm having zero luck, mostly cuz I have absolutely no idea how to find the evidence. But I'm still searching... Even when they came into existence, there's still the wait time for the molds, custom PCBs, etc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fcgamer | 4,719 Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 We should looking at the AGCI chips dates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fcgamer | 4,719 Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 16 minutes ago, OptOut said: Awesome thread, bravo!!! You guys are doing great, keep it up!!! Get prints made, I'll buy one 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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