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WATA shouldn't call a CIB for just the Box, Booklet and Game


frostmilk

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CIB means¬†COMPLETE IN BOX, right?¬†ūüßź

So! why WATA calls a CIB for just the Box, Booklet and Game? that is not a real complete in box game, a real complete game should be include EVERYTHING that originally comes with the game, by example: the nintendo promo inserts, registration cards and yes! even the PLASTIC BAG.

Also the inserts can be different from the same release, by example Super Mario 3 NES, I have multiple CIB copies with different nintendo promo inserts, I bet WATA don't know which insert is part of each release due the same exact release from the same year and run can have different inserts.

IMO that's the first problem of grade NON sealed games and WATA shouldn't call a CIB a game for just the Box, Booklet and Game.

 

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Me and @Mr. CIB literally just finished a "CIB Contents" list for the USA Licensed NES library just mere hours ago. It took about 30 days to compile, and about 25 years of combined experience between the two of us.

It's a rough cut and not ready for public viewing but I'm sure Deniz and Kenneth have a similar looking list. Despite where you are in the whole "political" spectrum of WATA, they guys who run it are longstanding community members who know their stuff.

If me and @Mr. CIB can do it in 30 days with no financial incentive, I'm sure they can do it as well.

Also, I'm sure they make mistakes in what goes to what. The only true way to verify with absolute certainty is to open, but in general the inserts of any given CIB are knowable.

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Welcome to the forums. As of right now¬†I can only offer you to this article:¬†GSI, PSI, What Am I? ‚Äď Mark Haspel

When it comes to Standard Inserts (SI), it is rare but not unheard of to find out that a sealed game does not have this. Because realistically, it's a factory error. Nothing more. And something like this is no different than getting a game that does not have a sleeve, a baggie, or even have an upside down label.

Then there are the Publisher Standard Inserts (PSI). If one for a Capcom game was inserted with a Konami game, because lets say Capcom was promoting Nintendo Power in 1991, then the SI included might not be seen as legit. But when it comes to it not being included... Again, even a sealed copy might not have it.

And finally there is the Game Standard Insert (GSI). These are as important as both the game and manual. These are inserts that are exclusive to the game, even if the owner does not see it as such. Meaning that many might see a Sega-CD postcard as a PSI when it is really a console (or game series) exclusive GSI.

Plus to back up with @Code Monkeyhas stated, they know what SI and PSI inserts go to what game printings.

At least for the NES. But again, they too have made past mistakes. But again, so did the factories.

Edited by FenrirZero
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19 minutes ago, Gulag Joe said:

I've seen a few listings use the term "true complete" or "full complete" when the lot contains the bag, inserts, and whatever else originally came with the game.

 

I don't have any hard definitions myself, but I loosely use a few terms.

A "Perfect CIB" would be something that includes everything that belongs inside and outside the box. Plastic wrap, factory stickers, plastic bags, etc.

A "100% CIB" would be something that includes everything that belongs inside the box only. Might be missing the plastic bag or a nintendo power insert, so I'll use "100% CIB" if it's missing something like that, and I'll use "100%+ CIB" if it has everything except the plastic wrap.

A "CIB" would be something that just includes the cartridge, manual, and box.

Everything else would be categorized as "Loose" even if its a box + cartridge, or a "Perfect CIB" missing just the manual or cartridge.

 

So my rough terminology is Loose > CIB > 100% CIB > 100%+ CIB > Perfect CIB

I guess you can add one or two more stage though "New" would be something unopened, and maybe you can add "Graded" but I wouldn't call it a step up, I'd consider it a different thing all together since you can also get a loose cartridge graded.

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Well with Wata once the Matrix code works you will be able to see the pre grading pictures front and back along with everything inside extra. As a seller getting a lot of games graded I am trying to include all the proper paperwork besides the CIB part. Funny thing is not one buyer paying crazy high money has asked or cared

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15 hours ago, Gulag Joe said:

I've seen a few listings use the term "true complete" or "full complete" when the lot contains the bag, inserts, and whatever else originally came with the game.

Then you get into the same trouble the television companies are in.

High Definition

Ultra High Definition

Super Ultra High Definition.

What's next? Super Duper Ultra High Definition For Real............you can't use a relative term to describe an absolute value, just tell me the resolution so I can decide for myself. That's why I don't use CIB, it's too ambiguous and it will only go away if you stop using it. I say complete or I literally say cartridge, box and instructions if that's what I mean. Words don't cost money, it isn't hard to say more of them.

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15 hours ago, ThePhleo said:

 

I don't have any hard definitions myself, but I loosely use a few terms.

A "Perfect CIB" would be something that includes everything that belongs inside and outside the box. Plastic wrap, factory stickers, plastic bags, etc.

A "100% CIB" would be something that includes everything that belongs inside the box only. Might be missing the plastic bag or a nintendo power insert, so I'll use "100% CIB" if it's missing something like that, and I'll use "100%+ CIB" if it has everything except the plastic wrap.

A "CIB" would be something that just includes the cartridge, manual, and box.

Everything else would be categorized as "Loose" even if its a box + cartridge, or a "Perfect CIB" missing just the manual or cartridge.

 

So my rough terminology is Loose > CIB > 100% CIB > 100%+ CIB > Perfect CIB

I guess you can add one or two more stage though "New" would be something unopened, and maybe you can add "Graded" but I wouldn't call it a step up, I'd consider it a different thing all together since you can also get a loose cartridge graded.

My Ultra Secret Rare CIB is an unopened Japanese game as well.

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17 hours ago, ThePhleo said:

 

I don't have any hard definitions myself, but I loosely use a few terms.

A "Perfect CIB" would be something that includes everything that belongs inside and outside the box. Plastic wrap, factory stickers, plastic bags, etc.

A "100% CIB" would be something that includes everything that belongs inside the box only. Might be missing the plastic bag or a nintendo power insert, so I'll use "100% CIB" if it's missing something like that, and I'll use "100%+ CIB" if it has everything except the plastic wrap.

A "CIB" would be something that just includes the cartridge, manual, and box.

Everything else would be categorized as "Loose" even if its a box + cartridge, or a "Perfect CIB" missing just the manual or cartridge.

 

So my rough terminology is Loose > CIB > 100% CIB > 100%+ CIB > Perfect CIB

I guess you can add one or two more stage though "New" would be something unopened, and maybe you can add "Graded" but I wouldn't call it a step up, I'd consider it a different thing all together since you can also get a loose cartridge graded.

Sounds good, levels of CIBs would be proper and more accurate.

Edited by frostmilk
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19 hours ago, ThePhleo said:

Me and @Mr. CIB literally just finished a "CIB Contents" list for the USA Licensed NES library just mere hours ago. It took about 30 days to compile, and about 25 years of combined experience between the two of us.

It's a rough cut and not ready for public viewing but I'm sure Deniz and Kenneth have a similar looking list. Despite where you are in the whole "political" spectrum of WATA, they guys who run it are longstanding community members who know their stuff.

If me and @Mr. CIB can do it in 30 days with no financial incentive, I'm sure they can do it as well.

Also, I'm sure they make mistakes in what goes to what. The only true way to verify with absolute certainty is to open, but in general the inserts of any given CIB are knowable.

That sounds amazing!!!

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5 hours ago, Trade-N-Games said:

Well with Wata once the Matrix code works you will be able to see the pre grading pictures front and back along with everything inside extra. As a seller getting a lot of games graded I am trying to include all the proper paperwork besides the CIB part. Funny thing is not one buyer paying crazy high money has asked or cared

Not yet..... but as they begin to gain knowledge that's what will set apart the graded CIB copies. No different than the same people you are selling to didn't care about any of this before they were educated by WATA.

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14 hours ago, Trade-N-Games said:

Well with Wata once the Matrix code works you will be able to see the pre grading pictures front and back along with everything inside extra. As a seller getting a lot of games graded I am trying to include all the proper paperwork besides the CIB part. Funny thing is not one buyer paying crazy high money has asked or cared

I think there literally are now 2 types of CIB collecting:

1. Non-WATA CIB collectors

2. WATA CIB collectors 

With the WATA group, seems all they care right now is the title, the grade, and how much it can sell up to on HA.

Purist (ie. pre-WATA) CIB collectors enjoy finding all the variants in pamphlets, posters and how many items exist in original factory form. There is much more to CIB collecting, which is unfortunately dumbed down in the current speculative/investment market with the new advent of CIB grading. 

 

 

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On 12/29/2020 at 4:18 AM, GPX said:

I think there literally are now 2 types of CIB collecting:

1. Non-WATA CIB collectors

2. WATA CIB collectors 

With the WATA group, seems all they care right now is the title, the grade, and how much it can sell up to on HA.

Purist (ie. pre-WATA) CIB collectors enjoy finding all the variants in pamphlets, posters and how many items exist in original factory form. There is much more to CIB collecting, which is unfortunately dumbed down in the current speculative/investment market with the new advent of CIB grading. 

 

 

You can be both too.  I like set collecting as ungraded CIBs.  Then I also like a nice Mint graded CIB in general.  The collector in me would keep the graded CIB and probably buy back a fill in ungraded CIB for the set.

There's pros and cons of each.  I didn't like CIB grading at first as the whole point of CIB was for the game to be playable (in my eyes).  Yet I also realize I haven't played the vast majority of my collection and likely never will.  So if I have something super Mint, then I may as well grade it.

I also always thought the most beautiful part of a CIB was seeing it photographed with all the contents on fully complete items.  The graded CIB trivializes the importance of it, but in theory the matrix should eventually show all pre graded contents.  If the general buyer pool doesn't care that is fine, but I would care as a collector and I would specifically market those contents if actively trying to sell it.  

In my eyes, I'm confident that the CIB graded market has awhile to go towards maturity.  I bet we'll see some changes at some point in the not too distant future and it will become more transparent over time. 

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In my laymen understanding of the subject when reading what wata’s site says is that they grade the cart, the instruction manual, and the box for CIB requests. Now perhaps the box grading includes the other inserts?  I know that @Trade-N-Gamesmight know more of the details with how many they’ve submitted.

as for me. Im quite tickled to find what im looking for in CIB if i get a minimum of the cart, manual, and box. I wish i would have slapped my boy self in the past for every time i threw away the box and manual on my games lol 

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When I’m collecting CIB I only need it to have cart instructions and box.  The extra paperwork is a bonus but obviously preferred.  But I’m also not sending them to be graded.  If I’m buying a graded CIB game that is entombed in plastic I would certainly expect it to be Complete.  Otherwise you are implicitly suggesting that the complete contents hold no value.  That is just not true.  Whether they care enough to pay the extra $$ or not I have a hard time believing there are CIB collectors that don’t place a premium on copies having the complete contents.

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Yeah, slabbing a CIB for yourself is fine, but as a buyer, I'm never buying a CIB unless I can inspect the contents first (both for quality and what's present/absent).  Buying a graded CIB is essentially buying a CIB blind, without knowing anything other than what you can surmise from a visual inspection of the box.  As a result, buying a graded CIB from WATA is only useful if you are literally a speculator.

In all other grading fields I've seen, either you can't see all the contents because the graded item is NIB, or, if the item is complete but opened/used, each content is displayed clearly within the slab.  What WATA is doing just doesn't make any sense to me at all.

My question is, have any of you purchased a slabbed CIB (not new/sealed), and if so, what was your reasoning or purpose for doing so?  I really am curious...

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On 12/31/2020 at 4:07 PM, Dr. Morbis said:

 Buying a graded CIB is essentially buying a CIB blind, without knowing anything other than what you can surmise from a visual inspection of the box. 

This isn’t true at all. In fact the opposite. Your buying a cib knowing that the contents have been inspected and scrutinized by a professional. It’s often hard to tell what condition any of the contents are just from pictures. Buying a wata graded cib gives you a fairly strong and accurate idea of the exact condition of what’s inside the box. 
 

Wata puts the manual and cart grade on the back of the wata sticker in case you didn’t know. I believe they also list other game specific  inserts as well. In addition you will have access to pre grading photos at some point I’d they develop the app they claim to be. 

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