International Politics / Current Events Thread

[avatar! | 1,819]

9 hours ago, guillavoie said:

Have you read the full statement in its context though? Cause this kind of truncated quote smells 100% twisted stuff to change the meaning of the original message. I wouldn't be surprised that he was actually describing the event as a resistance act, but not in such an inflammatory way. Also, when did he say that? That's kind of important too to judge the context of the quote.

I couldn't find the full context -- he posted it somewhere privately. However, it was the anti-hate organization the ADL which doxxed him and called his remarks very antisemitic, and I trust them.

[avatar! | 1,819]

8 hours ago, phart010 said:

I said the IDF are the Nazis metaphorically, because they are the ones doing all of the destruction and killing of the Palestinians in Gaza. I did not refer to the state of Israel as Nazis.

So you're saying it's Israel's fault for defending it's people after some 1200 innocent people were slaughtered? You're clearly giving Hamas ZERO responsibility for basically butchering Jews. I think this shows exactly where you stand.

[G-type | 2,482]

2 hours ago, avatar! said:

was the anti-hate organization the ADL which doxxed him and called his remarks very antisemitic, and I trust them.

ADL has a history of spying on anti-apartheid activists and selling the information to South African intelligence agents.

[phart010 | 1,707]

3 hours ago, avatar! said:

So you're saying it's Israel's fault for defending it's people after some 1200 innocent people were slaughtered? You're clearly giving Hamas ZERO responsibility for basically butchering Jews. I think this shows exactly where you stand.

Yea you’re basically ignoring everything I’ve already said. 
1. Israel defended itself when the situation was neutralized. After the situation was neutralized they proceeded with an offensive, the goal being to cause as much damage and destruction to Palestinians as possible.

Let’s put it this way, if someone attacks you, you have the right to defend yourself. After the attack is over though, you do not have the right to shoot them in the back as they are running away. And you also do not have the right to go to their house and kill their entire family for revenge.

2. 1200 innocent people is inaccurate. While it is always a tragedy when even 1 person is killed, innocent people is usually reserved to mean civilians. About half of those were IDF soldiers and police. Still a tragedy when they die. But if your calling this a war, then it is combatants versus combatants. So roughly half of the 1200 were Israeli combatants. And then you need to remember of the remainder that were innocent civilians, many of them were likely killed by IDF as friendly fire. 
 

I am holding Hamas accountable for killing anyone, not just Jews. And I have stated this several times before, but you disregard it. 

You are trying to paint me as a Jew hater, which I am absolutely not. I have tons of respect for the Jewish religious community. That is why most of the videos and sources I have been posting are from Jewish sources and Jewish perspectives. Because I know that if I were to post non-Jewish sources you would just claim my sources are antisemitic.

There is nothing more Jewish than a well studied religious Jewish rabbi. Are you telling me that the Jewish rabbis are antisemites?

[guillavoie | 1,210]

14 hours ago, avatar! said:

I couldn't find the full context -- he posted it somewhere privately. However, it was the anti-hate organization the ADL which doxxed him and called his remarks very antisemitic, and I trust them.

It was on his Substack account apparently, I don't really know if this count as 'private' as I don't know much about social media to begin with, but whatever, here is the full quote, from the 7th of October (https://normanfinkelstein.substack.com/p/john-browns-body-in-gaza) :

John Brown's Body--in Gaza

''Dolores Ibarruri, La Passionaria, famously exhorted during the Spanish Civil War, 'Better to die on your feet than live forever on your knees.' For the past 20 years the people of Gaza, half of whom are children, have been immured in a concentration camp.  Today they breached the camp’s walls.  If we honor John Brown’s armed resistance to slavery; if we honor the Jews who revolted in the Warsaw Ghetto—then moral consistency commands that we honor the heroic resistance in Gaza.  I, for one, will never begrudge—on the contrary, it warms every fiber of my soul—the scenes of Gaza’s smiling children as their arrogant Jewish supremacist oppressors have, finally, been humbled.''

It does leave place to some interpretation, and one can wonder what he refers to exactly about ''the scenes of Gaza's smiling children'', but personally, the truncated quote from ADL is nothing short of being completely dishonest. The fact he posted this right on the 7 of October must be read as such too, he clearly describes the event as a resistance act against Israel, where the pragmatical point is most likely to take hostages in order to negotiate for the release of Palestinians prisoners held in Israel (as his following Substack post seems to point to https://normanfinkelstein.substack.com/p/hostages-learning-from-israel). Anyway, this would be my guess, for what it is worth.

So yeah, the Anti-Defamation League are being dishonest (or blinded?) on this, but is it really a surprise given that they're obviously Pro-Israel and Anti Palestine (their homepage makes it quite clear on this right now : https://www.adl.org/). But that's bound to happen if you go with Wikipedia and what comes out of the top entries of a Google search, as you're most likely to be exposed to a lot of propaganda from the Western World 'official' stand on foreign policies.

 

[phart010 | 1,707]

About those prisoners being released.

In return for 50 Israeli hostages, Israel has agreed to release 150 Palestinian women and children that have been held in Israeli prisons since as early as 2021 that were being held on charges like throwing rocks and “harming regional security”. 

What exactly does “harming regional security” mean anyways? It sounds sufficiently vague enough that you could charge pretty much anyone with this for something as simple as loitering.

Also, since when was it ok to hold children in prison for 2+ years without a trial?  


https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/11/22/middleeast/palestinian-prisoners-potential-release-intl-cmd/index.html

Edited November 24, 2023 by phart010

[avatar! | 1,819]

4-year-old Israeli American hostage is released

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/26/politics/abigail-edan-jake-sullivan-national-security-adviser-israel-gaza-hostages-cnntv/index.html

Biden said the girl “has been through a terrible trauma.” Her mother was killed in front of her, the president said. She then ran to her father, Biden said, who used his body to shield his daughter and was killed.

And people still defend Hamas...

[phart010 | 1,707]

On 11/26/2023 at 2:40 PM, avatar! said:

4-year-old Israeli American hostage is released

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/26/politics/abigail-edan-jake-sullivan-national-security-adviser-israel-gaza-hostages-cnntv/index.html

Biden said the girl “has been through a terrible trauma.” Her mother was killed in front of her, the president said. She then ran to her father, Biden said, who used his body to shield his daughter and was killed.

And people still defend Hamas...

Biden also said he witnessed babies being decapitated with his own eyes. 
 

Fool me once, shame on you
Fool me twice, can’t be fooled again
 

 

[avatar! | 1,819]

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/haiti-gang-violence-crisis-g9-g-pep-1234871794/

The man behind the carnage, according to Denis and Haitian investigators, is Jimmy “Barbecue” Cherizier, a former police officer turned shot-caller of the G9 Family and Allies, the most powerful gang federation in a country ruled by gangs. Since the July 2021 assassination of President Jovenel Moïse, a battle for supremacy between the G9 and an enemy alliance, the G-Pep, has plunged this Caribbean nation of 12 million into a catastrophic spiral of violence the United Nations says is on par with countries at war. Gangs now control nearly 90 percent of the capital, armed with American-made assault rifles. Homicides surged about 115 percent over the summer, and kidnappings are at an all-time high. Hospitals and schools have shut down, while most major relief agencies have pulled out altogether. “This is the worst I’ve ever seen it — a complete disintegration of the state,” says Robert Fatton, a Haitian American professor of politics at the University of Virginia. “And I don’t see an exit from the situation, frankly. I’m at a loss.”

Interim Prime Minister Ariel Henry has repeatedly called for a multinational force to break the gangs’ stranglehold, but to date, none has deployed. Utter desperation has sparked a wave of vigilantism that has seen suspected gang members hunted down by machete-wielding mobs and set on fire in the streets as police stand by. Gangs have responded by gunning down civilians. With no elected officials left in office and insecurity too great to hold an election, democracy is paralyzed. The only consensus is that the current march toward anarchy will grind on and civilians will bear the cost.

“[Their] aversion to putting boots on the ground sends a signal” that could “embolden more authoritarian governments and criminal networks” that are moving cocaine through the country, says Muggah. “On the other hand, it opens space for U.S. rivals such as China and Russia to shore up their influence in the Western Hemisphere.”

Most nights he drinks himself to sleep and smokes weed upon waking to numb the guilt of the horrified faces of hostages, police he’s killed, the loss of his family and friends, his small world getting smaller. He says he believes in God, but that his life is in the hands of the devil. “I’ve done too much,” he says with a sigh. “I’m just waiting for the consequences of my actions.”

The last I see Denis, he’s seated in the doorway of his cell-like room, smoking in a daze. “I cannot stop thinking about my sons,” he says. “They are always with me.” Two of his remaining children amble around — too young to understand what had happened to their siblings. Denis looks at me. “You can adopt them if you like, and take them away from this place. There is no life here, no future,” he says. “For me, they’re already as good as dead.”

 

[ThePhleo | 2,185]

From what little I know about Haiti right now,

I understand that it's basically being run without a functioning government right now? As in, it's basically a low level anarchy over there at the moment?

[avatar! | 1,819]

12 minutes ago, ThePhleo said:

From what little I know about Haiti right now,

I understand that it's basically being run without a functioning government right now? As in, it's basically a low level anarchy over there at the moment?

Sadly, that appears to be the case.

[phart010 | 1,707]

The United Nations General Assembly just voted on a resolution demanding immediate humanitarian ceasefire in Gaza.

Unfortunately the USA and Israel, along with Austria, Czechia, Guatemala, Liberia, Micronesi, Nauru, Papua New Guinea, and Paraguay were not in support of the protection of civilians and upholding legal humanitarian obligations. Therefore, the bombing and killing of innocent civilians in Gaza will continue even though 82% of the nations in this world support a ceasefire.

 

[avatar! | 1,819]

Sad that so many innocent lives are lost because of Hamas, but that's the price you pay when your country is literally run by the devil. Also, as usual @phart010 left out the part where the UN resolution demands the "immediate and unconditional release" of all remaining hostages. Of course that's not going to happen, Hamas is shite that needs to be wiped off this world, and Israel will do it. Hopefully after most of Hamas is reduced to ash, there will be at least some semblance of peace in Israel and Gaza.

[avatar! | 1,819]

I also notice a very discomforting quiet about how Hamas abuses, rapes, and mutilates women (and men) --

Their bodies tell their stories. They’re not alive to speak for themselves.

NBC News has reviewed evidence that suggests dozens of Israeli women were raped, sexually abused or mutilated during the Oct. 7 Hamas terror attacks.

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/hamas-rape-israeli-women-oct-7-rcna128221

 

In one photo, a burned body appears to project anguish. In another, a woman lies naked from the waist down, her underwear hanging from her leg. In interviews, first responders haltingly describe finding naked female corpses tied to beds and survivors recount witnessing a gang rape at the music festival.

All of this is part of a mounting body of evidence of the gender-based crimes carried out by Hamas terrorists on Oct. 7.

Over the last several weeks, NBC News has reviewed five interrogations of captured Hamas fighters, an Arabic-language document that instructed Hamas how to pronounce “Take off your pants” in Hebrew, six images of naked or partially naked deceased female bodies, seven eyewitness accounts of sexual violence including both rape and mutilation, 11 testimonies of first responders, and two accounts from workers in morgues who handled the bodies of women after they were recovered from the massacre.

Human rights investigators say that they believe that sexual violence and gender-based violence was carried out by Hamas, including mutilation. But they are not yet certain about the scale and there is not a large amount of evidence that is available to human rights organizations.

The most voluminous evidence is of bodily mutilation of sexual organs by bullet, knife or even scissors, according to an NBC News analysis of the evidence currently available. “They had a thing with sexual organs, both in women and men,” a first responder told police in videotaped testimony. 

Israeli officials pointed to a Hamas pamphlet discovered on Nov. 2 that gives detailed instructions about how to pronounce phrases in Hebrew including “raise your hands and open your legs” and “take off your pants.”

During interrogations, captured Hamas militants talked about raping women and children as a Hamas tactic of war. “To have our way with them, to dirty them, to rape them,” said one Hamas militant during a videotaped interrogation. 

The monsters that committed these atrocities will get what's coming to them.

[phart010 | 1,707]

4 hours ago, avatar! said:

Sad that so many innocent lives are lost because of Hamas, but that's the price you pay when your country is literally run by the devil. Also, as usual @phart010 left out the part where the UN resolution demands the "immediate and unconditional release" of all remaining hostages. Of course that's not going to happen, Hamas is shite that needs to be wiped off this world, and Israel will do it. Hopefully after most of Hamas is reduced to ash, there will be at least some semblance of peace in Israel and Gaza.

How can you be so sure that the UN resolution is only talking about Israeli hostages? Israel is holding orders of magnitude more of the Palestinian people as hostages than Hamas. That is why 82% of the countries in the world are condemning them.

[phart010 | 1,707]

4 hours ago, avatar! said:

I also notice a very discomforting quiet about how Hamas abuses, rapes, and mutilates women (and men) --

Their bodies tell their stories. They’re not alive to speak for themselves.

NBC News has reviewed evidence that suggests dozens of Israeli women were raped, sexually abused or mutilated during the Oct. 7 Hamas terror attacks.

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/hamas-rape-israeli-women-oct-7-rcna128221

 

In one photo, a burned body appears to project anguish. In another, a woman lies naked from the waist down, her underwear hanging from her leg. In interviews, first responders haltingly describe finding naked female corpses tied to beds and survivors recount witnessing a gang rape at the music festival.

All of this is part of a mounting body of evidence of the gender-based crimes carried out by Hamas terrorists on Oct. 7.

Over the last several weeks, NBC News has reviewed five interrogations of captured Hamas fighters, an Arabic-language document that instructed Hamas how to pronounce “Take off your pants” in Hebrew, six images of naked or partially naked deceased female bodies, seven eyewitness accounts of sexual violence including both rape and mutilation, 11 testimonies of first responders, and two accounts from workers in morgues who handled the bodies of women after they were recovered from the massacre.

Human rights investigators say that they believe that sexual violence and gender-based violence was carried out by Hamas, including mutilation. But they are not yet certain about the scale and there is not a large amount of evidence that is available to human rights organizations.

The most voluminous evidence is of bodily mutilation of sexual organs by bullet, knife or even scissors, according to an NBC News analysis of the evidence currently available. “They had a thing with sexual organs, both in women and men,” a first responder told police in videotaped testimony. 

Israeli officials pointed to a Hamas pamphlet discovered on Nov. 2 that gives detailed instructions about how to pronounce phrases in Hebrew including “raise your hands and open your legs” and “take off your pants.”

During interrogations, captured Hamas militants talked about raping women and children as a Hamas tactic of war. “To have our way with them, to dirty them, to rape them,” said one Hamas militant during a videotaped interrogation. 

The monsters that committed these atrocities will get what's coming to them.

It could be that Hamas has done some sexual crimes against Israelis. That still needs to be confirmed. But Don’t forget that about the atrocities that Israel has systematically been committing against Palestinian children for years. 
 

“Save the Children” is an international human rights organization with 25,000 dedicated staff across 116 countries campaigning to provide justice to children across the world.

Lets see what Save the Children has been saying about the condition of Palestinian children being taken as hostages by the Israeli military long before the October attacks happened:

https://www.savethechildren.net/news/stripped-beaten-and-blindfolded-new-research-reveals-ongoing-violence-and-abuse-palestinian
 

-During arrest, 42% of children were injured, including gunshot wounds and broken bones, and 65% of children were arrested during the night, mostly between midnight and dawn. Half of all arrests took place in the children’s home.

-The majority of children experienced appalling levels of physical and emotional abuse, including being beaten (86%), being threatened with harm (70%), and hit with sticks or guns (60%). 

-Some children reported violence and abuse of a sexual nature, including being hit or touched on the genitals and 69% reported being strip searched. 

Edited December 13, 2023 by phart010

[avatar! | 1,819]

As expected, with @phart010 every time the terrorists that are Hamas are shown to have committed atrocities such as rape, he says things such as "It could be that Hamas has done some sexual crimes against Israelis" -- NO, it's not "could be" they did. Your whitewashing of the situation will not change reality. Nor will your red herring fallacy (trying to change the subject) excuse Hamas. They are done, Israel will eliminate these murderers and terrorists. Hamas also failed in their objectives of destroying Mideast peace. Once the war is over, Israel and Saudi Arabia will reach an official peace agreement and officially open diplomatic relations which will provide greater security to everyone in the Middle East -- Gazans included.

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

19 minutes ago, avatar! said:

As expected, with @phart010 every time the terrorists that are Hamas are shown to have committed atrocities such as rape, he says things such as "It could be that Hamas has done some sexual crimes against Israelis" -- NO, it's not "could be" they did. Your whitewashing of the situation will not change reality. Nor will your red herring fallacy (trying to change the subject) excuse Hamas. They are done, Israel will eliminate these murderers and terrorists. Hamas also failed in their objectives of destroying Mideast peace. Once the war is over, Israel and Saudi Arabia will reach an official peace agreement and officially open diplomatic relations which will provide greater security to everyone in the Middle East -- Gazans included.

That doesn't even mention the fact that civilians are only in the crosshairs because Hamas is actively preventing them from leaving for safer areas.  Or how there is no negotiating with Hamas because their entire raison d'etre is to destroy Israel.  How can one reason with someone that denies your very right to exist?  

[cartman | 195]

12 hours ago, avatar! said:

Sad that so many innocent lives are lost because of Hamas, but that's the price you pay when your country is literally run by the devil. Also, as usual @phart010 left out the part where the UN resolution demands the "immediate and unconditional release" of all remaining hostages. Of course that's not going to happen, Hamas is shite that needs to be wiped off this world, and Israel will do it. Hopefully after most of Hamas is reduced to ash, there will be at least some semblance of peace in Israel and Gaza.

You're equating the obligations of a terrorist group with those of a sovereign nation. That's kind of why they are a terrorist group in the first place: because they don't follow any rules and kill indiscriminately. That's hardly an argument that Israel should get to do the same (bomb in residential areas).

This is like saying cops should get to recruit minors and kill family members because "look, criminals do it too". You're mixing apples & oranges and failing to acccount for what that voting was actually for.

 

[avatar! | 1,819]

13 minutes ago, cartman said:

You're equating the obligations of a terrorist group with those of a sovereign nation. That's kind of why they are a terrorist group in the first place: because they don't follow any rules and kill indiscriminately. That's hardly an argument that Israel should get to do the same (bomb in residential areas).

This is like saying cops should get to recruit minors and kill family members because "look, criminals do it too". You're mixing apples & oranges and failing to acccount for what that voting was actually for.

 

Hamas is basically a sovereign nation, ruling over Gaza with an iron fist -- murdering anyone that politically does not align with their fundamentalist ideals. They knew what they were doing on Oct 7 when the massacred over 1000 innocent civilians. For decades they have only talked about "armed struggle" and nothing approaching mutual recognition nor have they ever even considered a two-state solution.

What was Hamas thinking? For over three decades, it has had the same brutal idea of victory

https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-conflict-endgame-1bfcc187d826596e78090ec6cbf6516c

In the three and a half decades since it began as an underground militant group, Hamas has pursued a consistently violent strategy aimed at rolling back Israeli rule — and it has made steady progress despite bringing enormous suffering to both sides of the conflict.

Shaul Shay, an Israeli researcher and retired colonel who served in military intelligence, said Hamas “miscalculated” Israel’s response and now faces a far worse conflict than it had anticipated. “I hope and I believe that Israel will not stop until Hamas has been defeated in the Gaza Strip, and I don’t think that this was their expectation before the operation,” Shay said of Hamas.

The Hamas government has seen only sporadic protests over the years and has quickly and violently suppressed them.

I agree that Israel should NOT do the same thing as Hamas -- and they certainly do not. Unlike Hamas they try to avoid civilian casualties. Unfortunately, Hamas purposely uses humans -- mostly women and children, as shields. Hamas has them in a Catch-22 in the sense that Israel can either 1)not bomb and not go after the terrorists -- in which case Hamas wins. Or 2)Israel can go after the terrorists, but they will inflict high civilian casualties because of how Hamas is using civilians as shields, and as noted above, also not allowing civilians into Egypt or in many instances not even allowing civilians to leave active war zones. Ultimately Israel went with option 2. It seems that Hamas assumed there would be enough condemnation from the world, as well as they assumed that other countries would join the fight against Israel -- well, they miscalculated. Most of the Arab nations are certainly and understandably upset at what's happening, but even if they don't say it aloud in public, it's well understood they largely blame Hamas and have abandoned them. Secondly, Israel is going to complete their mission of destroying Hamas' capabilities to launch such terrorist attacks -- namely destroying their tunnels and eliminating their soldiers and leadership.

[cartman | 195]

1 hour ago, avatar! said:

Hamas is basically a sovereign nation, ruling over Gaza with an iron fist -- murdering anyone that politically does not align with their fundamentalist ideals. They knew what they were doing on Oct 7 when the massacred over 1000 innocent civilians. For decades they have only talked about "armed struggle" and nothing approaching mutual recognition nor have they ever even considered a two-state solution.

What was Hamas thinking? For over three decades, it has had the same brutal idea of victory

https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-conflict-endgame-1bfcc187d826596e78090ec6cbf6516c

In the three and a half decades since it began as an underground militant group, Hamas has pursued a consistently violent strategy aimed at rolling back Israeli rule — and it has made steady progress despite bringing enormous suffering to both sides of the conflict.

Shaul Shay, an Israeli researcher and retired colonel who served in military intelligence, said Hamas “miscalculated” Israel’s response and now faces a far worse conflict than it had anticipated. “I hope and I believe that Israel will not stop until Hamas has been defeated in the Gaza Strip, and I don’t think that this was their expectation before the operation,” Shay said of Hamas.

The Hamas government has seen only sporadic protests over the years and has quickly and violently suppressed them.

I agree that Israel should NOT do the same thing as Hamas -- and they certainly do not. Unlike Hamas they try to avoid civilian casualties. Unfortunately, Hamas purposely uses humans -- mostly women and children, as shields. Hamas has them in a Catch-22 in the sense that Israel can either 1)not bomb and not go after the terrorists -- in which case Hamas wins. Or 2)Israel can go after the terrorists, but they will inflict high civilian casualties because of how Hamas is using civilians as shields, and as noted above, also not allowing civilians into Egypt or in many instances not even allowing civilians to leave active war zones. Ultimately Israel went with option 2. It seems that Hamas assumed there would be enough condemnation from the world, as well as they assumed that other countries would join the fight against Israel -- well, they miscalculated. Most of the Arab nations are certainly and understandably upset at what's happening, but even if they don't say it aloud in public, it's well understood they largely blame Hamas and have abandoned them. Secondly, Israel is going to complete their mission of destroying Hamas' capabilities to launch such terrorist attacks -- namely destroying their tunnels and eliminating their soldiers and leadership.

No Hamas is not a nation. Even if they were you still couldn't legitimize own warcrimes by claiming revenge against the other side. It doesn't work that way. International law doesn't doesn't recognize such notions.

Yes they do everything you mentioned. Hamas often purposefully attacks from where it's own civilians are and they target Jewish civilians on purpose. There's also the fact that you can't really oust them since they stay by force.

The bombing campaigns have already killed ~20,000 civilians. That's not quite "avoiding civilians" in my book. Even if they didn't target them intentionally it's clear how massive the collateral damage would be.

Israel has also been condemned for blocking the access to water, food, medicine and electricity wich hits civilians the hardest.

Edited December 13, 2023 by cartman

[phart010 | 1,707]

On 12/13/2023 at 3:54 PM, avatar! said:

Hamas is basically a sovereign nation, ruling over Gaza with an iron fist -- murdering anyone that politically does not align with their fundamentalist ideals.

Hamas is not a nation. They are a radicalized political party that wants to remove the Israeli government. Before the conflict they had flimsy control over Gaza and lots of people didn’t agree with them and were not at risk of losing their lives. As a matter of fact, Netanyahu’s equally radical government wanted Hamas to be the government in Gaza because of the “threat” it poses to Israel. He never wanted a two state solution to begin with. He wanted Gaza to be run by an enemy so he could justifiably wipe Gaza off the map.

 

On 12/13/2023 at 3:54 PM, avatar! said:

 

I agree that Israel should NOT do the same thing as Hamas -- and they certainly do not. Unlike Hamas they try to avoid civilian casualties.

It seems the Israelis on the ground disagree and also President Biden disagrees and his White House staff disagrees. They must all be antisemites too right?

 

The IDF was firing helicopter rockets and tank shelling houses in the Israeli neighborhood while it was filled with Israeli civilians. Certainly doesn’t sound like they were trying to avoid civilian casualties.

 

63 journalists and media workers killed by IDF in Gaza conflict. The survivors reported they were following protocol and were clearly identifiable as press:

https://cpj.org/2023/12/journalist-casualties-in-the-israel-gaza-conflict/amp/

And with all of Gazas infrastructure being leveled to the ground, all Gazan civilians not allowed to exit the danger zone, all food/water/electricity prohibited from entering Gaza (by the Israeli government), all Gazan hospitals shut down (by the Israeli government), it is no surprise that there is 60-70% civilian casualties in Gaza. How do you explain 17,000+ deaths? By the way, 17k is possibly only half of the actual deaths because they have not even accounted for people buried under the rubble of collapsed buildings. And the Ministry of Health is no longer able to even count deaths because their entire operational infrastructure has been destroyed.

Mark my word, you guys supporting the war crimes in Israel are going to be so ashamed of yourselves in the future after the dust settles and the world realizes what really went down. You’re all gonna be denying that you supported Israel’s atrocities.

It’s already clear that the Israel has strategically lost. 82% of the nations of the world are against what Israel is doing and are demanding a ceasefire. Much of the European Union has not voted against them, but they have at least decided to  abstain from voting. 

Ukraine is now even losing the war to Russia because of Israel. US support for Ukraine has declined while we are distracted by Israel’s genocide campaign. 

Edited December 15, 2023 by phart010

[avatar! | 1,819]

On 12/15/2023 at 2:39 PM, phart010 said:

Hamas is not a nation. They are a radicalized political party that wants to remove the Israeli government.

That one line shows how wrong you and biased you are. Everyone knows that Hamas is not a "radicalized political party" they are a terrorist organization that wants to annihilate the Jews, America, and everyone that does not conform to their form of Islam. That's a fact, it's in their charter --

https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp

Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.

The Islamic Resistance Movement: The Movement's programme is Islam. From it, it draws its ideas, ways of thinking and understanding of the universe, life and man. It resorts to it for judgement in all its conduct, and it is inspired by it for guidance of its steps.

The basic structure of the Islamic Resistance Movement consists of Moslems who have given their allegiance to Allah whom they truly worship.

What's going to happen in the future? Israel will destroy Hamas. While there will always be some terrorists lying in the shadows, Hamas is going to be a mere shadow of what it once were. There will be an international committee overseeing efforts to rebuild Gaza, AND make sure money no longer goes to building terrorist infrastructure nor purchasing weapons. People who supported Hamas, such as you, will absolutely be seen as on the wrong side of history.

[phart010 | 1,707]

Hamas is absolutely a political party. They may also be a terrorist organization as the two are not mutually exclusive. However, they were a political party first and then became a terrorist organization when they started doing acts of terrorism.

[phart010 | 1,707]

More indiscriminate killings from Israeli Defense Forces. They bombed a Christian with 400 Christians taking shelter:

 

Edited December 17, 2023 by phart010