International Politics / Current Events Thread

[Link | 2,712]

12 hours ago, avatar! said:

so I explained all this, and what I did get in a response? the eye roll emoji.

And I explained why in my immediate reply thereafter. Look up the phrase if you aren't familiar. 

Yes, that's my reaction, because you have a broad brush mischaracterizing the opinions of a pretty large, and growing, contingent of people on both sides of the Atlantic, and insisting anybody not on Israel's side must be against the Jewish people or faith. Is Bernie Sanders an antisemite? 

Yeah. I'm being pithy. I'm tired of your dismissal of any editorial opposing opinion as "propaganda". Facebook censors what little info can trickle out of the invasion zone (I'm sorry, which side are you on vis-á-vis Russia?) with internet and other utilities shut down. The American administration is supporting its fellow longtime imperialist, and nobody dare oppose this because they're Hitler's victims. The propaganda is in the mouths of the oppressors. 

12 hours ago, avatar! said:

war is the rich man's terrorism" -- go tell that to the Ukrainians! Tell them that they should just stop fighting and let Russia murder and take over their country because you bel

Wait, is Russia waging war not terrorizing Ukraine? 

 

12 hours ago, avatar! said:

, "terrorism" is never a poor man's war, terrorism is just that, it's mean to strike terror in the hearts of civilians that have nothing to do with any war. In fact, it's well known that terrorism is typically used for political purposes,

What exactly do you think war is?

[Link | 2,712]

12 hours ago, avatar! said:

most Israelis and Jews in general do not support the current government and want Netanyahu out (good riddance I say)!

At least we can agree on this

[avatar! | 1,811]

11 hours ago, Link said:

The American administration is supporting its fellow longtime imperialist, and nobody dare oppose this because they're Hitler's victims. The propaganda is in the mouths of the oppressors.

What you wrote is just a perfect example of a new-age antisemitic trope known as "Holocaust Inversion" --

https://fathomjournal.org/holocaust-inversion-and-contemporary-antisemitism/

What has been called ‘Holocaust Inversion’ involves an inversion of reality (the Israelis are cast as the ‘new’ Nazis and the Palestinians as the ‘new’ Jews), and an inversion of morality (the Holocaust is presented as a moral lesson for, or even a moral indictment of ‘the Jews’). More: those who object to these inversions are told – as they were by David Ward – that they are acting in bad faith, only being concerned to deflect criticism of Israel. In short, the Holocaust, an event accurately described by Dan Diner as a ‘rupture in civilisation,’ organised by a regime that, as the political philosopher Leo Strauss observed, ‘had no other clear principle except murderous hatred of the Jews,’ is now being used, instrumentally, as a means to express animosity towards the homeland of the Jews. ‘The victims have become perpetrators’ is being heard more and more. That is Holocaust Inversion.

The false equivalencing of Israel and the Nazis, she says, ‘elevates by a factor of a zillion any wrongdoings Israel might have done, and lessens by a factor of a zillion what the Germans did.’ And as Anthony Julius points out, the Zionist=Nazi trope not only says to the world that the ‘Zionists are to the Palestinians what Nazis were to the Jews’, but also that ‘the “Zionists” and Nazis share the same Fascist ideology’ and that ‘the “Zionists” were complicit with the Nazis in the Holocaust.’

By inverting reality and morality, and by recklessly spreading accusations of bad faith, Holocaust Inversion prevents us identifying the changing nature of contemporary antisemitism and is an obstacle to marshalling active resistance to it.

Yup, and hey, you're entitled to your opinion no matter how odious it may be. However, I will stand on the side of "active resistance" against hatred and bigotry from both the right and left sides of the political spectrum.

[Link | 2,712]

Genocide is genocide. I condemn the actions, not any heritage, religion, or other immutable or identity characteristics. I care for the citizens of Israel as much as those of Palestine or Russia. You can stop putting antisemitism and hatred and bigotry in my mouth any time.

[avatar! | 1,811]

22 hours ago, Link said:

Genocide is genocide. I condemn the actions, not any heritage, religion, or other immutable or identity characteristics. I care for the citizens of Israel as much as those of Palestine or Russia. You can stop putting antisemitism and hatred and bigotry in my mouth any time.

When you stop spouting antisemitism, I will be more than happy to stop calling you out on it.

[doner24 | 1,196]

29 minutes ago, avatar! said:

When you stop spouting antisemitism, I will be more than happy to stop calling you out on it.

You two need to play nice.

 What you posted above about Holocaust Inversion is not what Link did in his post. 

[avatar! | 1,811]

Just now, doner24 said:

You two need to play nice.

 What you posted above about Holocaust Inversion is not what Link did in his post. 

I have to disagree. I think what Link said is exactly Holocaust Inversion -- it's equating Jews in the state of Israel as Nazis. Now, I fully support criticizing the policies of the Israeli government -- I may or may not disagree with the criticism, but I will always support someone's right to criticize those policies.  But explain to me how saying "The American administration is supporting its fellow longtime imperialist, and nobody dare oppose this because they're Hitler's victims. The propaganda is in the mouths of the oppressors." is not Holocaust Inversion? Again, it equates Israelis today as the new Nazis when they were once "Hitler's victims" -- this is absolutely Holocaust Inversion, just said in a more subtle way.

[doner24 | 1,196]

1 hour ago, avatar! said:

I have to disagree. I think what Link said is exactly Holocaust Inversion -- it's equating Jews in the state of Israel as Nazis. Now, I fully support criticizing the policies of the Israeli government -- I may or may not disagree with the criticism, but I will always support someone's right to criticize those policies.  But explain to me how saying "The American administration is supporting its fellow longtime imperialist, and nobody dare oppose this because they're Hitler's victims. The propaganda is in the mouths of the oppressors." is not Holocaust Inversion? Again, it equates Israelis today as the new Nazis when they were once "Hitler's victims" -- this is absolutely Holocaust Inversion, just said in a more subtle way.

That is not what he did, you made an assumption and bridged a gap. Saying that someone can’t oppose someone because of an event in the past is not the same as saying that group is equivalent to the group that committed genocide against them. 

[avatar! | 1,811]

As Putin Threatens, Despair and Hedging in Europe

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/18/world/europe/europe-russia-munich-conference.html

Vladimir Putin had a message for them: Nothing they’ve done so far — sanctions, condemnation, attempted containment — would alter his intentions to disrupt the current world order. Russia made its first major gain in Ukraine in nearly a year, taking the ruined city of Avdiivka, at huge human cost to both sides...And the American discovery, disclosed in recent days, that Putin may be planning to place a nuclear weapon in space — a bomb designed to wipe out the connective tissue of global communications if Putin is pushed too far — was a potent reminder of his capacity to strike back at his adversaries with the asymmetric weapons that remain a key source of his power.

...almost every available sanction has been imposed, and it was unclear if the United States and the Europeans would be prompted to seize the $300 billion or so in assets that Russia unwisely left abroad before the invasion. When a senior U.S. official was asked how the United States would make good on President Joe Biden’s 2021 pledge of “devastating consequences” for Russia if Navalny died in prison — a statement made in Putin’s presence at a meeting in Geneva — the official shrugged.

“I feel underwhelmed and somewhat disappointed” by the debate here, said Steven Sokol, president of the American Council on Germany. “There was a lack of urgency and a lack of clarity about the path forward, and I did not see a strong show of European solidarity.” He and others noted that French President Emmanuel Macron did not attend.

...the warning did not appear to generate an urgent discussion of how to prepare for that possibility. The conference celebrated the fact that now two-thirds of alliance members have met the goal of spending 2% of their gross domestic product on defense — up from just a handful of nations 10 years ago. But a few acknowledged that goal is now badly outdated, and they talked immediately about the political barriers to spending more.

Wow, how can anyone not read this and not think of Europe pre-WWII

[avatar! | 1,811]