American Politics / Current Events Thread

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

1 hour ago, docile tapeworm said:

@CodysGameRoom hey…..I dont wanna build walls. Why does my opinion of males competing against females in female division of sport make me transphobe?

Sigh... I said I would bow out of this but because you tagged me directly, I will respond, despite my hesitancy to do so. 

You said this:

1 hour ago, docile tapeworm said:

I got no issue with a male identifying as a female.

But then you said this:

1 hour ago, docile tapeworm said:

Why does my opinion of males competing against females in female division of sport make me transphobe?

That does not add up. If you believe the second quote, then you DO have an issue. and you DON'T support them. And it IS transphobic. 

I implore any of you who have been commenting that share this viewpoint to review the following article:

https://www.aclu.org/news/lgbtq-rights/four-myths-about-trans-athletes-debunked/?fbclid=IwAR1kgnBQrOGpg543fC76_2__hoYIYxonl57IUhtqI0zkcE0CDyehu0GgnxY

The participation of trans athletes does not hurt cis women. 

Trans athletes physiological characteristics do not provide an unfair advantage over cis athletes.

Sex is not binary and not determined at birth.

Trans athletes do not need separate teams or leagues. 

If you disagree, then you are transphobic whether you want to admit that to yourself or not. 

You say you don't want to build walls. Your opinion is in itself wall building. You can't have it both ways.

[docile tapeworm | 4,204]

@CodysGameRoom but I do believe sex is binary and determined at birth. As far as your biological make.

So besides that. The women’s division is for cis women. Is that not something that should be respected? A trans or cis woman doesn’t want to compete in the male division and that’s respected but what about “cis” women who do not want to compete against trans women. Shouldn’t that be respected just the same?

”Trans athletes physiological characteristics do not provide an unfair advantage over cis athletes.”

Im sorry but I cant say I agree with that. Have you seen the picture of lia standing on the podium with the two biological women? That’s a n advantage product of birth sex, no?

I guess your right. I cant have my cake and eat it too. I gotta stand for what I believe, no matter the label. I feel like I would treat everyone fair no matter but idk I can’t agree with the biological males competing against the biological females in female sport.

I understand you don’t  identify with your birth sex, to a degree but I’ll never understand it completely because I identify as the gender I was birthed biologically. 

Edited April 5, 2022 by docile tapeworm

[JamesRobot | 5,838]

3 hours ago, CodysGameRoom said:

Can you clarify? I'm curious about the "advantages" you are referring to.

Balls.  Testosterone to be specific. 

Given all things other than gender are equal (nutrition, training, resources, etc.), a man will be significantly stronger and faster than a woman in any physical contest. 

Testosterone is the key hormone needed to build muscle mass and a natural woman will not have access to the amounts of testosterone produced by the testicles of a man who has reached puberty. 

I know you're playing devil's advocate, but this is grade 5 health class stuff.  You should already be aware of these basic physiological differences between genders.

Edited April 5, 2022 by JamesRobot

[avatar! | 1,830]

Help Wanted: Adjunct Professor, Must Have Doctorate. Salary: $0.

After protests, U.C.L.A. took down a job posting that offered no pay. But it turns out colleges often expect Ph.D.s to work for free.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/06/us/ucla-adjunct-professor-salary.html

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2022/03/21/ucla-criticized-advertising-adjunct-job-without-pay

“It’s corrupting: it legitimates the concept of asking a Ph.D. to work for free, it mocks the idea that a nationally advertised search is meant to look for nationally qualified candidates. That this is coming from a state that supposedly has liberal politics and respect for public higher education, in a city that is liberal, in a community of allegedly liberal administrators and faculty, should tell roughly how much all those political alignments are worth when it comes to exploiting labor and corrupting rules.”

What a load of shit!! UCLA, super-rich institution, hiring slaves "instructors" with A PhD for a salary of $0?? All the while, the men's basketball coach is earning $4 million.

Reminds me, I do need a new shirt...

 

[fcgamer | 4,754]

 

Trying to enlighten myself here. So could someone explain why one can't identify as "transracial", yet can identify as transsexual? I felt a bit confused about some things, so I figured I'd tag @CodysGameRoom  as I'm sure he could explain to me why I can't identify as a different race than the one I received at birth,yet can identify as a different gender than the one I was assigned. Thanks.

 

[OptOut | 8,892]

53 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

 

Trying to enlighten myself here. So could someone explain why one can't identify as "transracial", yet can identify as transsexual? I felt a bit confused about some things, so I figured I'd tag @CodysGameRoom  as I'm sure he could explain to me why I can't identify as a different race than the one I received at birth,yet can identify as a different gender than the one I was assigned. Thanks.

 

Actually I really agree with this, I think that Race is just as made-up of a social category as Gender, so people should be able to transition races as they can with gender. Maybe some day this will be a reality!

[Californication | 1,490]

On 4/5/2022 at 9:57 AM, docile tapeworm said:

@CodysGameRoom but I do believe sex is binary and determined at birth. As far as your biological make.

So besides that. The women’s division is for cis women. Is that not something that should be respected? A trans or cis woman doesn’t want to compete in the male division and that’s respected but what about “cis” women who do not want to compete against trans women. Shouldn’t that be respected just the same?

”Trans athletes physiological characteristics do not provide an unfair advantage over cis athletes.”

Im sorry but I cant say I agree with that. Have you seen the picture of lia standing on the podium with the two biological women? That’s a n advantage product of birth sex, no?

I guess your right. I cant have my cake and eat it too. I gotta stand for what I believe, no matter the label. I feel like I would treat everyone fair no matter but idk I can’t agree with the biological males competing against the biological females in female sport.

I understand you don’t  identify with your birth sex, to a degree but I’ll never understand it completely because I identify as the gender I was birthed biologically. 

I am not going to take sides in this debate, but just a point in fact there are more than two biological sexes. I'd leave that out of your argument. L

[Californication | 1,490]

Every time I think about this argument I think about how when you go to the golf course they have different spots where you begin from. One is here, one is ten feet back, etc.

[Californication | 1,490]

I think the arguments for mixing the genders for sports is are very left brain. Like they always name all the positive benefits for the trans community like being able to feel less ostracized etc., and that in effect the vast majority of trans athletes would have nearly no effect on the outcome of sports because the numbers are so small. While I agree we the sentiment, we have different sports for classically defined men and women because of the generally different potential abilities of classicaly defined men and women.

It really is a fringe issue and the focus it gets as one of the conservative party's main issues is kind of silly. 

 

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

4 hours ago, fcgamer said:

 

Trying to enlighten myself here. So could someone explain why one can't identify as "transracial", yet can identify as transsexual? I felt a bit confused about some things, so I figured I'd tag @CodysGameRoom  as I'm sure he could explain to me why I can't identify as a different race than the one I received at birth,yet can identify as a different gender than the one I was assigned. Thanks.

 

This feels a bit "poking the bear" type of comment but regardless, I already said I was going to bow out of this debate, and only responded already, because I was specifically tagged with what appeared to be an honest question. I know you did as well but I don't have the energy or time to debate something with people who most likely already has their mind made up regardless. 

I will just say a few things, not directed at you @fcgamer or your above comment, but in general regarding this topic, to anyone on the board who wants to listen.

Science now is different than Science 100 years ago. Science 100 years from now will show different than it is today. Every day we learn more and more and science and what we know gets built upon and evolves. Antiquated ideas are going to continue to fall by the wayside, as they always do. I believe firmly that this will be a non issue in the near future. Unless society crumbles, which, well, we'll see I guess. But if we can truly progress, this should be a non-issue.

Trans people are normal human beings who deserve to pursue whatever they would like to pursue in life. The way that they are being prosecuted in modern society, with all of these ridiculous laws popping up in certain states, is absurd and it is akin to lynch mobs. Criminalizing hormone therapy and wanting to put the parents of trans kids in jail for doing nothing else but supporting their kids and their identity. It boggles my mind that this is happening in 2022. 

Do not say you support trans people unless you are fulling willing to accept that they are who they say they are. If you say "oh, its fine for them to believe whatever they want" but you think its actually bullshit, then you do not support trans people. 

I don't try to get too much into my personal life but I will confide with you here that I am not trans (if you were wondering) , but I am raising a trans child with my fiancé and unless you have real first hand experience with a trans person's struggles, I understand that it might be difficult for you to understand. Please know that no one is going to tell me that this child can't do whatever they set their mind to. That includes being barred from playing some sport if that is what they want to do, and I will continue to fight for that right unabashedly. 

I think I'm done with this topic now. I have zero interest in further debating with anyone who won't keep an open mind about this and had already made up their mind. There are a ton of great resources out there that helped me to truly understand trans people and if you TRULY care about creating a world where we ALL are accepted and united than I implore you to use the Google machine, and read up. Truly try to understand because if you don't, you are just creating more walls, more prosecution, more danger for trans people. 

Support trans rights. 

[docile tapeworm | 4,204]

39 minutes ago, Californication said:

I am not going to take sides in this debate, but just a point in fact there are more than two biological sexes. I'd leave that out of your argument. L

Lol  touche’ so could you explain this to me? How many are there?

[Californication | 1,490]

17 minutes ago, docile tapeworm said:

Lol  touche’ so could you explain this to me? How many are there?

Idk, but I believe there are historical references going way back, so this is part of the human condition.

 

[docile tapeworm | 4,204]

10 minutes ago, Californication said:

Idk, but I believe there are historical references going way back, so this is part of the human condition.

 

Leaving it up to me to educate myself. Fair enough.

[fcgamer | 4,754]

1 hour ago, CodysGameRoom said:

This feels a bit "poking the bear" type of comment but regardless, I already said I was going to bow out of this debate, and only responded already, because I was specifically tagged with what appeared to be an honest question. I know you did as well but I don't have the energy or time to debate something with people who most likely already has their mind made up regardless. 

I will just say a few things, not directed at you @fcgamer or your above comment, but in general regarding this topic, to anyone on the board who wants to listen.

Science now is different than Science 100 years ago. Science 100 years from now will show different than it is today. Every day we learn more and more and science and what we know gets built upon and evolves. Antiquated ideas are going to continue to fall by the wayside, as they always do. I believe firmly that this will be a non issue in the near future. Unless society crumbles, which, well, we'll see I guess. But if we can truly progress, this should be a non-issue.

Trans people are normal human beings who deserve to pursue whatever they would like to pursue in life. The way that they are being prosecuted in modern society, with all of these ridiculous laws popping up in certain states, is absurd and it is akin to lynch mobs. Criminalizing hormone therapy and wanting to put the parents of trans kids in jail for doing nothing else but supporting their kids and their identity. It boggles my mind that this is happening in 2022. 

Do not say you support trans people unless you are fulling willing to accept that they are who they say they are. If you say "oh, its fine for them to believe whatever they want" but you think its actually bullshit, then you do not support trans people. 

I don't try to get too much into my personal life but I will confide with you here that I am not trans (if you were wondering) , but I am raising a trans child with my fiancé and unless you have real first hand experience with a trans person's struggles, I understand that it might be difficult for you to understand. Please know that no one is going to tell me that this child can't do whatever they set their mind to. That includes being barred from playing some sport if that is what they want to do, and I will continue to fight for that right unabashedly. 

I think I'm done with this topic now. I have zero interest in further debating with anyone who won't keep an open mind about this and had already made up their mind. There are a ton of great resources out there that helped me to truly understand trans people and if you TRULY care about creating a world where we ALL are accepted and united than I implore you to use the Google machine, and read up. Truly try to understand because if you don't, you are just creating more walls, more prosecution, more danger for trans people. 

Support trans rights. 

I asked you in reality, not for poking the bear fun. Actually I feel a bit pissed off and insulted as well  that you took my question as such, though I guess that if even you can't explain it, then it us just arbitrary.

I've said it before, I'll say it again, as well as many other foreigners of multiple skin types and colours  living here for 10, 20 years+, I've been here with the nation long enough I identify as half Asian. I'm more Asian than Jeremy Lin, for example.

That's why I'm asking you, @CodysGameRoom

To explain why this is unacceptable. No poking the bear, honest question, if I'm just a white privileged ass hole, tell me. I know I'm an ass hole but...

[OptOut | 8,892]

Who says people can't be trans-racial? I would imagine that would actually be a LOT easier than being transgender because there's a lot less difference between different races than there is between men and women, at least from a biological perspective.

Most of race is just cultural differences mainly, as opposed to some genuine biological hurdles of transitioning from one gender to another.

I think people should be allowed to change genders, and races if they want, it should be free for the individual to choose absolutely, and people should be supportive and not dicks about the whole thing if that's what they want to do.

[Californication | 1,490]

Some people are making the argument that the Republicans are focusing on trans/sports to recycle the way they activated voters using anti-gay arguments. 

[docile tapeworm | 4,204]

@Californication so I found this

• X – Roughly 1 in 2,000 to 1 in 5,000 people (Turner’s )
• XX – Most common form of female
• XXY – Roughly 1 in 500 to 1 in 1,000 people (Klinefelter)
• XY – Most common form of male
• XYY – Roughly 1 out of 1,000 people
• XXXY – Roughly 1 in 18,000 to 1 in 50,000 births

I did very limited research on each and found that it’s still referenced as a male or female with missing or extra chromosomes. Am I understanding that correctly?

Edited April 11, 2022 by docile tapeworm

[Californication | 1,490]

I only have a conceptual understanding of the subject so your guess is as good as mine. I do believe people would argue that, that method is incomplete because people that were born as classical male/female can take treatments that fundamentally change their biology although their chromosomes remain unchanged.

[OptOut | 8,892]

I mean it's a fallacious argument to fall back on to chromosomes and biological factors when discussing transgendered people anyway, because it's only half the equation.

Biological sex is one factor in whether someone is a man or a woman, but socially ascribed gender traits are the other.

You can change the social gender ascriptions and transition between genders without taking a single hormone, and it doesn't matter what is in your underwear or how many chromosomes you have.

Of course, in order to transition further, you need to actually take measures to change some of the biological stuff too, and I think it's pretty clear that many of the "social gender traits" ARE very likely also influenced by biological processes too.

But to just say that a man is a biological man and a woman is a biological woman really misses a huge chunk of what actually does make men men and women women in our society.

[docile tapeworm | 4,204]

On 4/11/2022 at 12:59 PM, Californication said:

Some people are making the argument that the Republicans are focusing on trans/sports to recycle the way they activated voters using anti-gay arguments. 

I mean. Lia was a plant to make the trans look bad….

[docile tapeworm | 4,204]

19 hours ago, OptOut said:

I mean it's a fallacious argument to fall back on to chromosomes and biological factors when discussing transgendered people anyway, because it's only half the equation.

Biological sex is one factor in whether someone is a man or a woman, but socially ascribed gender traits are the other.

You can change the social gender ascriptions and transition between genders without taking a single hormone, and it doesn't matter what is in your underwear or how many chromosomes you have.

Of course, in order to transition further, you need to actually take measures to change some of the biological stuff too, and I think it's pretty clear that many of the "social gender traits" ARE very likely also influenced by biological processes too.

But to just say that a man is a biological man and a woman is a biological woman really misses a huge chunk of what actually does make men men and women women in our society.

What else makes you a man or woman other than biology? 

[docile tapeworm | 4,204]

22 hours ago, Californication said:

I only have a conceptual understanding of the subject so your guess is as good as mine. I do believe people would argue that, that method is incomplete because people that were born as classical male/female can take treatments that fundamentally change their biology although their chromosomes remain unchanged.

What do you mean by fundamentally change their biology?

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

1 hour ago, docile tapeworm said:

What else makes you a man or woman other than biology? 

society. 
 

What if you were born with both? Like a hermaphrodite. Rare, but it does happen. Or neither, (intersex/ambiguous)? What should those folks be classified as?

[Hammerfestus | 3,890]

 

[TrekMD | 1,435]

I'm just going to leave this here...