American Politics / Current Events Thread

[Rhino | 105]

20 hours ago, Californication said:

And since Antifa started in 2017 that report is completly irrelevant with the conversation which is violence from Antifa.

Edit: If you are trying to make a point about non-Antifa related left wing violence v. right wing violence this report is not proving your point. 

1. They are calling anti-abortion terrorism - "religious" terrorism and not right wing terrorism. So they are dividing right wing terrorism to make it look smaller, then;

2. Their terrorist attack data points include "Threatened use of violence." I've never heard of a non-violent terrorist attack before.

I almost took this post seriously before remembering you enjoy trolling people. How are you still denying left wing terrorism exists? What more do you need? Unless you really are just trolling again. If you actually look at the data, they have tons of data points for each terrorist attack. They're also not deciding what is left wing terrorism and what is right wing terrorism. When they refer to perpetrator groups they say stuff like "White Supremacists" "Pro LGBT Rights Extremists" "Male Supremacists" "Anti-government Extremists" and so on. You as the reader can tie the groups to whatever side they're on. As for threatened use of violence, what if someone says "I'm going to shoot you." and then something happens where they can't or don't fulfill their crime. Just because a terrorist attack wasn't successful doesn't mean they won't have it in their database. I bet you a large chunk of these incidents are terrorist attacks that weren't carried out fully or were doing property damage, with no casualties. That would also be an attack with threatened use of violence. "I'm going to kill and burn all of you." People inside run to safety, building burns, and there are no casualties. https://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/search/Results.aspx?page=4&casualties_type=b&casualties_max=&dtp2=all&country=217&expanded=yes&charttype=line&chart=overtime&ob=GTDID&od=desc#results-table

 

Edited October 6, 2020 by Rhino

[Californication | 1,490]

@Rhino, no one is trolling you. The data is misleading and doesn't reflect how dangerous right wing terrorists are because of the way it conflates data.

This was a common tactict during the Bush administation when the military and spy agencies kept trying to tell the American people why the Patriot Act was necessary. 

The chart that you quoted doesn't even correlate to the search functions in the data base. There is no search option for Left Wing Extremists under perpetrators and if you put Left Wings Extremists in the search function it finds three incidents in the U.S. If you search by left wing, there qre maybe four pages out of 24 in the U.S. and they are 99% from the 70's.

Womp, womp.

Edited October 6, 2020 by Californication

[Kguillemette | 1,569]

Off the top of my head, the ALF and ELF are left wing terror organizations.

[Californication | 1,490]

It's really sad to see people on here tryong to obfuscate the violence that comes from conservative right wing extremists. Here is a new report from the Department of Homeland Security.

https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/519908-homeland-security-report-released-after-months-long-delay-lists

"White supremacist remain the 'most persistent and lethal threat in the country' "

 

[RegularGuyGamer | 2,021]

58 minutes ago, Californication said:

"White supremacist remain the 'most persistent and lethal threat in the country' "

 

You mean the group of ppl that back the idea that was responsible for 15M deaths in the largest mass genocide in the history of the world is a threat?? Go on. We better send more funding to the extremist in the middle east that denounce the holocaust. Oh wait that was 4 years ago. 

In other news, extremist from the other side of the political isle are also rising threats! 

Two things can be true at once.

[Californication | 1,490]

26 minutes ago, RegularGuyGamer said:

You mean the group of ppl that back the idea that was responsible for 15M deaths in the largest mass genocide in the history of the world is a threat?? Go on. We better send more funding to the extremist in the middle east that denounce the holocaust. Oh wait that was 4 years ago. 

In other news, extremist from the other side of the political isle are also rising threats! 

Two things can be true at once.

I am not sure why you keeping bringing up World War 2. 

Donald Trump and the Republican party promote racism and white supremacy and then downplay White Supremacists violence I am not sure why you are angry about me speaking about it. 

To say that this is a widely known idea and we don't need to talk about it is kind of silly. 

The Trump administration clearly doesn't want us to talk about it because they blocked the DHS report multiple times.   

In other news, @regularguygamer thinks Antifa followers are violent but cannot find evidence to back up his claims that they have killed multiple people.

Edited October 7, 2020 by Californication

[RegularGuyGamer | 2,021]

'I am antifa': Sarah Iannarone forces runoff in bid to become Portland's mayor

https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jun/2/sarah-iannarone-antifa-mayor-eyes-portland-oregon-/

Not an organization. Mayor candidate says they're aligned with the anti-group anti-fa. 

Choose 1

[Rhino | 105]

On 10/6/2020 at 7:36 PM, Californication said:

@Rhino, no one is trolling you. The data is misleading and doesn't reflect how dangerous right wing terrorists are because of the way it conflates data.

This was a common tactict during the Bush administation when the military and spy agencies kept trying to tell the American people why the Patriot Act was necessary. 

The chart that you quoted doesn't even correlate to the search functions in the data base. There is no search option for Left Wing Extremists under perpetrators and if you put Left Wings Extremists in the search function it finds three incidents in the U.S. If you search by left wing, there qre maybe four pages out of 24 in the U.S. and they are 99% from the 70's.

Womp, womp.

It is so difficult to take you seriously. They probably don't have the perpetrators named "Left wing extremists". They probably have whatever name the group called themselves or are a part of. No one is saying right ring terrorism doesn't exist or is a much bigger problem than left wing terrorism. We're trying to point out that left wing terrorism exists and is a problem, albeit, a lesser problem than right wing terrorism. You should read this piece too and do some more of your own research. https://www.csis.org/analysis/escalating-terrorism-problem-united-states

[RegularGuyGamer | 2,021]

34 minutes ago, Rhino said:

is so difficult to take you seriously

I do say it light hearted-ly bc it's politics. It's a fun conversation to have. 

I know it's a lesser problem and I am well read on both extremist. 

Everyone agrees that right wing extremism is a problem, especially conservatives. Every conservative outlet I read is annoyed by those groups to out right hating them, specifically white supremacists.

The thing is, the left consistently denies any extremism on their side. Going to far to regularly blame white supremacists for burning down buildings and breaking business windows.

Left wing extremists took a fucking city over this summer and we brush it off. Like what the actual fuck?? It is especially brushed under the rug by the left. It blows my mind that there's been 60ish of unrest in Portland lead by the left, portion on a city seized, multiple cities burned to the ground all by one side but meh maybe they're a problem maybe they're not.

Theyre a problem. 

Everyone knows right wing extremist are a problem. The ones on the left are quickly racing to catch up. This summer is the pudding full of that proof. 

Edited October 8, 2020 by RegularGuyGamer

[Rhino | 105]

26 minutes ago, RegularGuyGamer said:

I do say it light hearted-ly bc it's politics. It's a fun conversation to have. 

I know it's a lesser problem and I am well read on both extremist. 

Everyone agrees that right wing extremism is a problem, especially conservatives. Every conservative outlet I read is annoyed by those groups to out right hating them, specifically white supremacists.

The thing is, the left consistently denies any extremism on their side. Going to far to regularly blame white supremacists for burning down buildings and breaking business windows.

Left wing extremists took a fucking city over this summer and we brush it off. Like what the actual fuck?? It is especially brushed under the rug by the left. It blows my mind that there's been 60ish of unrest in Portland lead by the left, portion on a city seized, multiple cities burned to the ground all by one side but meh maybe they're a problem maybe they're not.

Theyre a problem. 

Everyone knows right wing extremist are a problem. The ones on the left are quickly racing to catch up. This summer is the pudding full of that proof. 

This guy gets it. Yes, wtf happened in CHAZ or CHOP? Why does that get a pass? 

[Tulpa | 3,580]

Trending on Twitter: #flyguy

Edited October 8, 2020 by Tulpa

[Californication | 1,490]

1 hour ago, RegularGuyGamer said:

Everyone agrees that right wing extremism is a problem, especially conservatives. Every conservative outlet I read is annoyed by those groups to out right hating them, specifically white supremacists.

The thing is, the left consistently denies any extremism on their side. Going to far to regularly blame white supremacists for burning down buildings and breaking business windows.

Everyone knows right wing extremist are a problem. The ones on the left are quickly racing to catch up. This summer is the pudding full of that proof. 

If conservatives know right wing extremism is an issue, why are they okay with Donald Trump?

Why do conservatives defend Donald Trump as he dog whistles and occasionally shouts his support for White Supremacists? 

Clearly you guys don't care about  racism and the effects its having on America. You don't care about: the threats and fire bombings of abortion clinics the last few years, the multiple shooting of jews at church the last few years, the white supremacist Ethan Melzer planning to kill his fellow military members, the bugaloo boys murdering police officers or the whites supremacists infiltrating the police and military. If you did care, you wouldn't be supporting Donald Trump and acting like anything Antifa or the left wing has done in recent years is anything near these atrocities.

To your other point, every person that goes to a protest or causes property damage the last few months isn't Antifa or left leaning. People are stressed, tired, and scared of everything going on in this country and when people are pushed to far and the screwed up system becomes to conspicuous people sometimes protest and some people may riot. It wasn't Antifa that destroyed LA during the Rodney King riots.

You wanna know what causes social unrest and rioting? Things like: people being scared of Corona virus because Trump was too incompetent to do his job, or the Trump admin. giving trillions of dollars to corporations but telling 40 M people out of work they won't be getting additional unemployment, maybe the millions of people that are going to be evicted from their apartments/homes causes unrest, or could it be a president that supports white supremacists as we watch video after video of cops killing black people. 

Edited October 8, 2020 by Californication

[Silent Hill | 276]

@Californication - Found a good montage of Trump supporting White Supremacists. 

USA Today also has a piece on how much he supports White Supremacists and hate groups.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/10/02/trump-and-white-supremacy-he-did-condemn-and-has-repeatedly-column/5883336002/

[Californication | 1,490]

7 minutes ago, Silent Hill said:

@Californication - Found a good montage of Trump supporting White Supremacists. 

USA Today also has a piece on how much he supports White Supremacists and hate groups.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/10/02/trump-and-white-supremacy-he-did-condemn-and-has-repeatedly-column/5883336002/

Context is what you are missing. He can say he condemns something without that being the message that is received/understood. Statements aren't made in a vaccumm, they are interpreted as they relate to other things. 

[CodysGameRoom | 2,009]

@Silent Hill So we have a collection of statements from Trump condemning white supremacists. We also have a collection of statements from Trump supporting white supremacists. So which is it? Why is he sharing both an opinion of approval AND an opinion of condemnation? it's ONE way or the other. You would have to look at the context to tell I suppose....

I support pineapple on pizza.

I condemn pineapple on pizza.

You can't just say I condemn it now, because I already said I supported it.

[Silent Hill | 276]

12 minutes ago, Californication said:

Context is what you are missing. He can say he condemns something without that being the message that is received/understood. Statements aren't made in a vaccumm, they are interpreted as they relate to other things. 

 

1 minute ago, CodysGameRoom said:

@Silent Hill So we have a collection of statements from Trump condemning white supremacists. We also have a collection of statements from Trump supporting white supremacists. So which is it? Why is he sharing both an opinion of approval AND an opinion of condemnation? it's ONE way or the other. You would have to look at the context to tell I suppose....

I support pineapple on pizza.

I condemn pineapple on pizza.

You can't just say I condemn it now, because I already said I supported it.

@CodysGameRoom I'll gladly watch (or read) a similar montage of his statements supporting White Supremacists 

@Californication Which of those statements in the video/USA Today piece were taken out of context? Which of those statements were received/understood in an opposite fashion and by whom/what group? Or are you referring to actions he's taken that contradicts those statements?

[CodysGameRoom | 2,009]

9 minutes ago, Silent Hill said:

I'll gladly watch (or read) a similar montage of his statements supporting White Supremacists 

Yea I bet you would.

Off the top of my head...

Trump said there were fine people on both side in Charlottesville. 

Trump told Proud Boys to stand back and stand by.

I'm sure there are more. Feel free to take a look.

So why the mixed signals? Why can't he condemn them each and every time?

[CodysGameRoom | 2,009]

Keep worrying about those antifa folk

Feds say they thwarted militia plot to kidnap Whitmer

[Silent Hill | 276]

 

56 minutes ago, CodysGameRoom said:

1 hour ago, Silent Hill said:

I'll gladly watch (or read) a similar montage of his statements supporting White Supremacists 

Yea I bet you would.

Off the top of my head...

Trump said there were fine people on both side in Charlottesville. 

Trump told Proud Boys to stand back and stand by.

I'm sure there are more. Feel free to take a look.

So why the mixed signals? Why can't he condemn them each and every time?

Personally, I think the "stand back and stand by" has been taken too literally by most people. I sincerely doubt his intent was to have the Proud Boys waiting in the shadows until Trump gave the green light for them to go out and terrorize people. I honestly think he intended to say "stand down" but just misspoke. That aligns more with his history of publicly denouncing hate groups IMO. That said, he could have chose his words better but we all know how great he can be with words at times. 

For his Charlottesville quote, that USA Today piece supplied the full quote (below), in which Trump denounced the  radicals on both sides of the protest. I know that it's been cherry picked and blasted throughout media because that's what some people want to hear. It's really easy to take that single line and boost your stance on Trump supporting White Supremacists, but in full context, and married with his previous condemnations, it's clear that he straight up excluded White Supremacists/Nationalists and Neo-Nazis from the "very fine people" he was describing. 

 

"You had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. ... I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name. ... So you know what, it's fine. You're changing history. You're changing culture. And you had people — and I'm not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally — but you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists. OK? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly. Now, in the other group also, you had some fine people. But you also had troublemakers, and you see them come with the black outfits and with the helmets and with the baseball bats. You had a lot of bad people in the other group." 

 

"It is clear from the full statement that President Trump was not making a distinction between the right and left, but between radicals of all types versus those who protest peacefully."

[Rhino | 105]

17 hours ago, Californication said:

If conservatives know right wing extremism is an issue, why are they okay with Donald Trump?

Why do conservatives defend Donald Trump as he dog whistles and occasionally shouts his support for White Supremacists? 

Clearly you guys don't care about  racism and the effects its having on America. You don't care about: the threats and fire bombings of abortion clinics the last few years, the multiple shooting of jews at church the last few years, the white supremacist Ethan Melzer planning to kill his fellow military members, the bugaloo boys murdering police officers or the whites supremacists infiltrating the police and military. If you did care, you wouldn't be supporting Donald Trump and acting like anything Antifa or the left wing has done in recent years is anything near these atrocities.

To your other point, every person that goes to a protest or causes property damage the last few months isn't Antifa or left leaning. People are stressed, tired, and scared of everything going on in this country and when people are pushed to far and the screwed up system becomes to conspicuous people sometimes protest and some people may riot. It wasn't Antifa that destroyed LA during the Rodney King riots.

You wanna know what causes social unrest and rioting? Things like: people being scared of Corona virus because Trump was too incompetent to do his job, or the Trump admin. giving trillions of dollars to corporations but telling 40 M people out of work they won't be getting additional unemployment, maybe the millions of people that are going to be evicted from their apartments/homes causes unrest, or could it be a president that supports white supremacists as we watch video after video of cops killing black people. 

FYI, in the U.S, cops kill more white people every year by shooting them than any other race. https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/

Your chance of being shot to death by a cop if you're white is .00000148%. Your chance of being shot to death by a cop if you're black is .00000534%. https://www.statista.com/statistics/183489/population-of-the-us-by-ethnicity-since-2000/

Edited October 8, 2020 by Rhino

[CodysGameRoom | 2,009]

1 hour ago, Rhino said:

FYI, in the U.S, cops kill more white people every year by shooting them than any other race. https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/

Your chance of being shot to death by a cop if you're white is .00000148%. Your chance of being shot to death by a cop if you're black is .00000534%. https://www.statista.com/statistics/183489/population-of-the-us-by-ethnicity-since-2000/

Well fuck, why aren't we showing black people these stats and telling them there's nothing wrong then? Let's get to it!

[Californication | 1,490]

1 hour ago, CodysGameRoom said:

Well fuck, why aren't we showing black people these stats and telling them there's nothing wrong then? Let's get to it!

 

2 hours ago, Rhino said:

FYI, in the U.S, cops kill more white people every year by shooting them than any other race. https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/

Your chance of being shot to death by a cop if you're white is .00000148%. Your chance of being shot to death by a cop if you're black is .00000534%. https://www.statista.com/statistics/183489/population-of-the-us-by-ethnicity-since-2000/

So what your saying is Blacks are 360% more likely than whites to be killed by the police even though there are 250m whites and 44m blacks?

I don't know if your numbers are right, but that sounds pretty bad.

[RegularGuyGamer | 2,021]

6 hours ago, Silent Hill said:

You had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. ... I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name. ... So you know what, it's fine. You're changing history. You're changing culture. And you had people — and I'm not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally — but you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists. OK? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly. Now, in the other group also, you had some fine people. But you also had troublemakers, and you see them come with the black outfits and with the helmets and with the baseball bats. You had a lot of bad people in the other group." 

It's a shame no one cares about objectively what happens. I would wager that +90% of people DO NOT watch the entire press conferences of these types of often misquoted statements.

People cant be bothered to sit and listen to someone they don't like say something they don't agree with. But for me, that's part of being an informed citizen. You need primary sources. Quotes from the source and digested in the context. 

Few people want to do that, especially the far left.

If anything last night shined a light on was that if Pence was running, Biden wouldn't even be in the equation. Trump is literally his own worst enemy and perhaps the most inept commutating president of all time. 

Watch out for Pense 2024. That guy has a career ahead of him. 

[avatar! | 1,855]

https://www.businessinsider.com/fbi-foiled-right-wing-militia-plot-kidnap-michigan-gretchen-whitmer-2020-10

Crazy and armed is NEVER a good combination. Thanks to all who were involved in stopping these lunatics. 

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

22 minutes ago, RegularGuyGamer said:

Watch out for Pense 2024. That guy has a career ahead of him. 

I have my doubts. The pandemic response will still be fresh enough of a memory, and Pence was the head of the taskforce that mismanaged it.

If Trump loses this election, I'd put even money on Pence's career basically being over entirely.