Coronavirus response

[Gloves | 11,777]

14 minutes ago, Silent Hill said:

There's a third choice in there, though I understand you may not feel that there is.

It's one thing to have a "safe Holiday guideline" or something, but I just think it's bonkers for CA to deliver something like this. 

Curious why some of these "rules" are even suggested. Two hours outside? Is there some magic to that? Wonder why protests aren't treated the same. I'd like to think the right to be with your family is as valid as your right to protest. 

People aren't allowed to be at the bedside of their dying loved ones. Who gives a damn about Thanksgiving?

[jonebone | 1,307]

Why are so many other people worried about what others do?  Masks in public spaces, I get that.  Limiting the amount of times you need to go out in public, I get that.  But if someone wants to have a small to medium sized gathering at their house with friends or family, let the them do so.  No one needs to be living in fear at this point.  This is the new normal, everyone has a different risk tolerance, and you choose your lifestyle that fits your risk tolerance.

[Gloves | 11,777]

1 minute ago, jonebone said:

Why are so many other people worried about what others do?  Masks in public spaces, I get that.  Limiting the amount of times you need to go out in public, I get that.  But if someone wants to have a small to medium sized gathering at their house with friends or family, let the them do so.  No one needs to be living in fear at this point.  This is the new normal, everyone has a different risk tolerance, and you choose your lifestyle that fits your risk tolerance.

Because your risk tolerance directly impacts my chances of survival.

[B.A. | 1,139]

People who are that afraid should just never leave their house.  Live inside your own little bubble, have everything delivered and never see the outside world again.  Problem solved. 

[Tulpa | 3,492]

1 hour ago, Silent Hill said:

There's a third choice in there, though I understand you may not feel that there is.

This virus is on the rise again, and it doesn't give a damn about holidays or anything else. Large gatherings are going to spread it.

I mean, the equivalent of Ft. Wayne, Indiana has died and we still gripe about not having forty people at a party? We are fucked.

Edited October 27, 2020 by Tulpa

[Gloves | 11,777]

10 minutes ago, B.A. said:

People who are that afraid should just never leave their house.  Live inside your own little bubble, have everything delivered and never see the outside world again.  Problem solved. 

This is unfortunately my reality due to my asthma. My doctor has advised me to stay indoors or I run the risk of dying to the virus. I don't know that I'd say it's because I'm "afraid", so much as just not willing to risk my life on the assumption that people are being smart about it themselves.

[B.A. | 1,139]

2 minutes ago, Gloves said:

This is unfortunately my reality due to my asthma. My doctor has advised me to stay indoors or I run the risk of dying to the virus. I don't know that I'd say it's because I'm "afraid", so much as just not willing to risk my life on the assumption that people are being smart about it themselves.

And that is a good call given your circumstances, because you are right that the vast majority of people who aren't at high risk simply aren't going to stop living their lives entirely. I am all for being "smart about it" when it comes to wearing masks in public and all that, but I'm not going to get mad at someone for spending 2.5 hours with their aunt and uncle on thanksgiving instead of only 2 hours.   

[Gloves | 11,777]

2 minutes ago, B.A. said:

And that is a good call given your circumstances, because you are right that the vast majority of people who aren't at high risk simply aren't going to stop living their lives entirely. I am all for being "smart about it" when it comes to wearing masks in public and all that, but I'm not going to get mad at someone for spending 2.5 hours with their aunt and uncle on thanksgiving instead of only 2 hours.   

Yeah the amount of time thing seems pretty weird, not sure what logic that's following. Agreed completely there. 

Frankly I wish they'd give reasoning behind these things along with it. Maybe there's something to the 2 hours (or other things) that we're just not aware of. Like maybe a study was done and it was determined that that's how long it takes to permeate the area or something. I dunno, just making something up that sounds like it makes sense. They could stand to take the guess work out of this stuff a bit better.

[Tulpa | 3,492]

10 minutes ago, B.A. said:

but I'm not going to get mad at someone for spending 2.5 hours with their aunt and uncle on thanksgiving instead of only 2 hours.   

Obviously no one is going to stand there with a stopwatch to make sure your gathering of immediate family is within code.

But shitheads are having huge hours long multi-family get-togethers (and immediatly going to other similar get-togethers) and are causing this thing to spread.

No one is saying this doesn't suck all around, but we are saying that maybe talking to aunt Betty from Pensacola over Zoom instead of in person this year might not be the end of the world.

Edited October 27, 2020 by Tulpa

[Tulpa | 3,492]

3 minutes ago, Gloves said:

Yeah the amount of time thing seems pretty weird, not sure what logic that's following. Agreed completely there. 

Frankly I wish they'd give reasoning behind these things along with it. Maybe there's something to the 2 hours (or other things) that we're just not aware of. Like maybe a study was done and it was determined that that's how long it takes to permeate the area or something. I dunno, just making something up that sounds like it makes sense. They could stand to take the guess work out of this stuff a bit better.

Yeah, the reasoning could be more transparent, but I have a feeling that idiots will just try to twist the reasons into why the virus "isn't that bad."

But then again, they would probably do that anyway.

[Gloves | 11,777]

3 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

No one is saying this doesn't suck all around, but we are saying that maybe talking to aunt Betty from Pensacola over Zoom instead of in person this year might not be the end of the world.

That's where I'm coming from.

[jonebone | 1,307]

58 minutes ago, Gloves said:

Because your risk tolerance directly impacts my chances of survival.

If you're at risk, stay home and don't interact with others.  Your risk tolerance does should not impact how someone else lives their life.

It's one thing if someone wants to walk about in public being brazen without a mask and coughing on people.  It's another for someone to live a normal life yet still respect masks and 6 foot distancing.  If that person just got back on a plane from China, there's nothing you can do it about it.

In your case, I would just assume everyone is infected and treat life as such if you are mortally fearful. 

[Gloves | 11,777]

13 minutes ago, jonebone said:

If you're at risk, stay home and don't interact with others.  Your risk tolerance does should not impact how someone else lives their life.

All I'm saying is that this is a double-edged sword - YOUR risk tolerance should not impact how I live MY life. Everyone being all willy-nilly about it is spiking the numbers and KEEPING me indoors, I don't even GET the choice. How is that fair?

[jonebone | 1,307]

16 minutes ago, Gloves said:

All I'm saying is that this is a double-edged sword - YOUR risk tolerance should not impact how I live MY life. Everyone being all willy-nilly about it is spiking the numbers and KEEPING me indoors, I don't even GET the choice. How is that fair?

The numbers are going to do what they are going to do.  Don't be so focused on placing blame.  You can go outside anytime you want, its all in your head if you decide you must stay inside. 

[Gloves | 11,777]

3 minutes ago, jonebone said:

The numbers are going to do what they are going to do.  Don't be so focused on placing blame.  You can go outside anytime you want, its all in your head if you decide you must stay inside. 

I realize I CAN go outside, obviously, but come on - that would be idiotic.

And no, the numbers don't just do what they do, what they do is in direct correlation to how people behave.

[ZeldaFan042 | 1,181]

COVID is being handled in my area very poorly, and it's all because people are selfish and demand their "right" and "freedom" to tool around and do whatever they want without any regard to others. It's incredibly frustrating. Half of the people where I live believe COVID is some sort of hoax. They also refuse to shut anything down, including schools, even though those are hotbeds for cases. People here are so near-sighted that they can't see beyond the "Oh, I won't die so it must not be that bad." They refuse to acknowledge how their choices affect others. My girlfriend works at a nursing home, and she is pretty much confined to home, because if she catches it from idiots at Walmart that think masks trample on their fundamental rights, the people she takes care of are put in danger. 

[doner24 | 1,195]

11 minutes ago, ZeldaFan042 said:

COVID is being handled in my area very poorly, and it's all because people are selfish and demand their "right" and "freedom" to tool around and do whatever they want without any regard to others. It's incredibly frustrating. Half of the people where I live believe COVID is some sort of hoax. They also refuse to shut anything down, including schools, even though those are hotbeds for cases. People here are so near-sighted that they can't see beyond the "Oh, I won't die so it must not be that bad." They refuse to acknowledge how their choices affect others. My girlfriend works at a nursing home, and she is pretty much confined to home, because if she catches it from idiots at Walmart that think masks trample on their fundamental rights, the people she takes care of are put in danger. 

I think hoax is being thrown around too loosely, and most people just think that it just isn’t dangerous enough to shut everyone’s lives down due to it. There is a huge cost of the shutdown that is hard to quantify, livelihoods of people and business’ going down the drain, kids falling behind at school due to distance learning, increase in depression, suicide, domestic violence. It’s tough when a lot of the people that are most affected by those things, would likely be asymptotic if they caught the virus. 

[Gloves | 11,777]

Just now, doner24 said:

I think hoax is being thrown around too loosely, and most people just think that it just isn’t dangerous enough to shut everyone’s lives down due to it. There is a huge cost of the shutdown that is hard to quantify, livelihoods of people and business’ going down the drain, kids falling behind at school due to distance learning, increase in depression, suicide, domestic violence. It’s tough when a lot of the people that are most affected by those things, would likely be asymptotic if they caught the virus. 

 

Businesses didn't HAVE to shut down due to this. It's simplifying a fair bit, but all the government really had to do was to prioritize small businesses and individuals who actually needed it when handing out a stimulus, rather than handing money out to their friends and family. If the rich weren't fucking us all so thoroughly, maybe people wouldn't be so prone to thoughts of helplessness and eventually suicide.

[Tulpa | 3,492]

3 minutes ago, Gloves said:

Businesses didn't HAVE to shut down due to this. It's simplifying a fair bit, but all the government really had to do was to prioritize small businesses and individuals who actually needed it when handing out a stimulus, rather than handing money out to their friends and family. If the rich weren't fucking us all so thoroughly, maybe people wouldn't be so prone to thoughts of helplessness and eventually suicide.

Seriously. When Mitch McConnell rams through a SCOTUS pick at such a pace that it sets landspeed records, and yet tables the COVID stimulus bill, you realize where certain priorities lie.

[ZeldaFan042 | 1,181]

Just now, doner24 said:

I think hoax is being thrown around too loosely, and most people just think that it just isn’t dangerous enough to shut everyone’s lives down due to it. There is a huge cost of the shutdown that is hard to quantify, livelihoods of people and business’ going down the drain, kids falling behind at school due to distance learning, increase in depression, suicide, domestic violence. It’s tough when a lot of the people that are most affected by those things, would likely be asymptotic if they caught the virus. 

I personally have a much more difficult time learning online as opposed to in person. I go to UND, and they have a "hybrid" approach to learning, which is a combination of online and in person education. They do this so they can charge full tuition prices. Most of my classes are fully online because the professors are at risk if they catch the virus. All of my other classes only meet once a week in person. Masks are "mandatory" but not enforced at all. All of my classes that meet in person once a week move at half pace because the class is split into multiple groups in order to have students socially distance in the classroom. This means I am paying full tuition for half courses and online courses that are labeled in person. They refuse to move all online because they'd have to issue a very large amount of refunds, which they tried to weasel out of in the spring when they shut down. I have an 11 year old brother who goes to middle school. He complains all the time about how many kids don't wear masks and are sent to school sick. Several of his teachers have had to quarantine, along with many students. This puts him at risk, which puts me at risk, which puts my girlfriend at risk, which puts her residents at risk. Businesses don't need to shut down, but the school system definitely needs to move online. They already have one foot in the grave.

[Silent Hill | 276]

3 minutes ago, Gloves said:

7 minutes ago, doner24 said:

I think hoax is being thrown around too loosely, and most people just think that it just isn’t dangerous enough to shut everyone’s lives down due to it. There is a huge cost of the shutdown that is hard to quantify, livelihoods of people and business’ going down the drain, kids falling behind at school due to distance learning, increase in depression, suicide, domestic violence. It’s tough when a lot of the people that are most affected by those things, would likely be asymptotic if they caught the virus. 

 

Businesses didn't HAVE to shut down due to this. It's simplifying a fair bit, but all the government really had to do was to prioritize small businesses and individuals who actually needed it when handing out a stimulus, rather than handing money out to their friends and family. If the rich weren't fucking us all so thoroughly, maybe people wouldn't be so prone to thoughts of helplessness and eventually suicide.

A stimulus wouldn't have been needed if places weren't required to shut down initially though, right? Or am I reading your comment wrong?

[Silent Hill | 276]

2 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

7 minutes ago, Gloves said:

Businesses didn't HAVE to shut down due to this. It's simplifying a fair bit, but all the government really had to do was to prioritize small businesses and individuals who actually needed it when handing out a stimulus, rather than handing money out to their friends and family. If the rich weren't fucking us all so thoroughly, maybe people wouldn't be so prone to thoughts of helplessness and eventually suicide.

Seriously. When Mitch McConnell rams through a SCOTUS pick at such a pace that it sets landspeed records, and yet tables the COVID stimulus bill, you realize where certain priorities lie.

It's my understanding that the current stimulus reached a stalemate because of the padding/funneling that Gloves mentions is a problem.

[Tulpa | 3,492]

1 minute ago, Silent Hill said:

It's my understanding that the current stimulus reached a stalemate because of the padding/funneling that Gloves mentions is a problem.

He's not even trying to negotiate it. Because he doesn't negotiate, he just sits on stuff until it becomes moot. It's his standard MO.

Edited October 27, 2020 by Tulpa

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

5 minutes ago, Silent Hill said:

A stimulus wouldn't have been needed if places weren't required to shut down initially though, right? Or am I reading your comment wrong?

A stimulus was going to be needed regardless.  Whether places were required to shut down, or not, restaurant spending and store visits were going to plummet as people acted on information of the pandemic.

[Gloves | 11,777]

8 minutes ago, Silent Hill said:

A stimulus wouldn't have been needed if places weren't required to shut down initially though, right? Or am I reading your comment wrong?

I'm saying it'd not be so bad to shut down and DEAL with the problem of transmission, if people weren't worried about their lives being destroyed by it.

Imagine if the narrative was more like "Hey everyone, we're going to shut it all down for 2 months, but don't worry - you'll be paid a fair wage for your time, rent will be paused (handled by the stimulus), and small businesses similarly will be taken care of. Please sit back, relax, and we'll ride through this together".