Coronavirus response

[fcgamer | 4,718]

@Shmup Where do you live?

 

[Brickman | 3,978]

22 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

@Shmup Where do you live?

 

Melbourne, Australia 

[Rhino | 105]

On 9/26/2020 at 12:45 AM, Link said:

https://medium.com/indica/the-overwhelming-racism-of-covid-coverage-78e37e4ce6e8

... Recently the NYPost (dumpster fire) said: Scientists can’t explain puzzling lack of coronavirus outbreaks in Africa. Well no, they can, it’s bog standard public health. They have excellent scientists in Africa, you know.

... ‘developing’ nations have done remarkably better at fighting COVID-19 than the rich and white. The real story starts precisely where the western map ends. ... The real story is that places like Vietnam and Mongolia have completely kicked COVID-19’s ass. The real story is that places like Rwanda and Ghana have innovated and survived. There are countless stories like this ...

...the western media anoints white Germany a COVID leader, despite having outbreak the size of Iraq’s. They should be looking at Vietnam. Vietnam has the same population, much less wealth and has had a dramatically better response. Nearly 10,000 people have died in Germany, compared to 35 in Vietnam. Every two days Germany has as many cases as Vietnam did total. ...

...countless column pixels have been devoted to abject failures like Sweden, as if they’re somehow a model. A model of what? Killing your people, economy and reputation at the same time? Real models in the Caribbean or Africa are ignored while people debate whether everyone should just get the disease. Honestly, WTF is wrong with you people? Just get the disease? When poor nations like mine have just eliminated it and moved on? 

It's hard. Part of the reason why it's easier for poorer countries to contain the virus and eliminate it is because no one (or at least very few people) are traveling there. Travel is a huge part of the continued spread of the virus. There's also the problem of test kits and what the real numbers are for this virus. Poorer countries don't have the same resources, so that's also part of why they could be seeing fewer official cases and deaths. The U.S and other first world countries should follow proven successes in other countries, however, there is the sad reality of things such as keeping the world economy afloat. Imagine if the U.S really did shut absolutely everything down for a month. The world would go into complete chaos. Should it be shut down, absolutely. Will it, no.

"Just get the disease" wow. A better mentality should be "Just wear a f*cking mask and be responsible." Wait it out until a vaccine is ready, then get said vaccine and continue to be careful since you can be reinfected with different strands. You have to remember, it's not just about you getting the virus, it's about you getting it and potentially spreading it to a vulnerable population.

[Californication | 1,477]

1 hour ago, Rhino said:

It's hard. Part of the reason why it's easier for poorer countries to contain the virus and eliminate it is because no one (or at least very few people) are traveling there. Travel is a huge part of the continued spread of the virus. There's also the problem of test kits and what the real numbers are for this virus. Poorer countries don't have the same resources, so that's also part of why they could be seeing fewer official cases and deaths. The U.S and other first world countries should follow proven successes in other countries, however, there is the sad reality of things such as keeping the world economy afloat. Imagine if the U.S really did shut absolutely everything down for a month. The world would go into complete chaos. Should it be shut down, absolutely. Will it, no.

"Just get the disease" wow. A better mentality should be "Just wear a f*cking mask and be responsible." Wait it out until a vaccine is ready, then get said vaccine and continue to be careful since you can be reinfected with different strands. You have to remember, it's not just about you getting the virus, it's about you getting it and potentially spreading it to a vulnerable population.

Umm..what? People don't travel to the country's that have managed the corona virus well? People travel to European countries, Vietnam, South Korea, etc. but most of the countiries quarantine visitors. Also, they all do contract tracing so if someone gets infected they can try and prevent the spread. 

If we would have shut down for the appropriate amount of time and instituted other measures instead of listening to mostly republicans our economy would be back to normal already. We have proff of this from multiple countries around the world.

Also, your complaints about tedt kits don't make sense. We can compare positivity rates. That accounts for variances from testing. 

[Rhino | 105]

22 minutes ago, Californication said:

Umm..what? People don't travel to the country's that have managed the corona virus well? People travel to European countries, Vietnam, South Korea, etc. but most of the countiries quarantine visitors. Also, they all do contract tracing so if someone gets infected they can try and prevent the spread. 

If we would have shut down for the appropriate amount of time and instituted other measures instead of listening to mostly republicans our economy would be back to normal already. We have proff of this from multiple countries around the world.

Also, your complaints about tedt kits don't make sense. We can compare positivity rates. That accounts for variances from testing. 

Vietnam and south korea do have low total case counts and death counts. Check out the past two months though. Starting in August, their cases skyrocket (for them). The same thing happened with lots of europe. France is a great example. No one has this totally under control. Some have it under control better than others. 

If China wouldn't have been shady af about it when they first found out, the rest of the world would've been able to better prepare and enact proper countermeasures to reduce risk. China didn't say sh!t about it for a solid month. They've been shady about their numbers since February too. Yes the U.S should've shut everything down early on. A big problem is all the misinformation about the virus and people not wearing masks and people congregating in large groups. Everyone can do their part despite what Trump says. 

Here's where test kits come into play. Let's say I'm country A and I can afford 200 million test kits and my population is 100 million. The amount of positive tests will be higher because there are more people who can be tested. Let's say I'm country B and I can only afford 10k kits and my population is also 200 million. That means only 10k people can officially test positive. Both countries have the same amount of test kits but one will have way more official cases. It's why India still hasn't surpassed the U.S in total cases. 4x the population of the U.S but 1.2 million fewer cases. They simply have fewer test kits. They now have kits which is why you see 80k+ cases every day.

[Californication | 1,477]

3 hours ago, Rhino said:

Vietnam and South Korea do have low total case counts and death counts. Check out the past two months though. Starting in August, their cases skyrocket (for them). The same thing happened with lots of europe. France is a great example. No one has this totally under control. Some have it under control better than others. 

If China wouldn't have been shady af about it when they first found out, the rest of the world would've been able to better prepare and enact proper countermeasures to reduce risk. China didn't say sh!t about it for a solid month. They've been shady about their numbers since February too. Yes the U.S should've shut everything down early on. A big problem is all the misinformation about the virus and people not wearing masks and people congregating in large groups. Everyone can do their part despite what Trump says. 

Here's where test kits come into play. Let's say I'm country A and I can afford 200 million test kits and my population is 100 million. The amount of positive tests will be higher because there are more people who can be tested. Let's say I'm country B and I can only afford 10k kits and my population is also 200 million. That means only 10k people can officially test positive. Both countries have the same amount of test kits but one will have way more official cases. It's why India still hasn't surpassed the U.S in total cases. 4x the population of the U.S but 1.2 million fewer cases. They simply have fewer test kits. They now have kits which is why you see 80k+ cases every day.

Vietnam had zero deaths for months. Unfortunately Chinese migrants were smuggled into Vietnam and spread the disease.

The rest of the country's are going through a second wave as we were told could happen from the beginning. I am not sure how you are comparing our first wave to other country's combined first and second wave and then acting like they didn't do miles better than us 

Donald Trump had mmmooonnths of notice. And since Donald Trump doesn't care about Americans he didn't take preventative measures. Even now with 200,000 people dead Donald Trump has no plan to slow down the virus.

I don't think you understand what positivity rate means. It is a ratio. If we have 100,000 positive tests and 1,000,000 tested we have a 10% positivity rate. If there are 5,000 positive tests and 50,000 tests there is a 10% positivity rate. By comparing the ratio the number of tests become irrelevant. You are saying that we have a lot of infected because we have a lot of tests, but that is wrong. All of the extra people being tested, who don't have the virus, should lower the positivity rate. Say 500 people have the virus and 1000 people are tested, there is a 50% positivity rate. The say 500 people have the virus and 2000 people are tested the positivity rate is 25%. You see the more you test and have negative results the lower the positivity rate. 

Also, more importantly they don't have to test as much as us because they are doing contract tracing. We have to test everyone because the virus is everywhere.

Edited September 30, 2020 by Californication

[Rhino | 105]

21 hours ago, Californication said:

Vietnam had zero deaths for months. Unfortunately Chinese migrants were smuggled into Vietnam and spread the disease.

The rest of the country's are going through a second wave as we were told could happen from the beginning. I am not sure how you are comparing our first wave to other country's combined first and second wave and then acting like they didn't do miles better than us 

Donald Trump had mmmooonnths of notice. And since Donald Trump doesn't care about Americans he didn't take preventative measures. Even now with 200,000 people dead Donald Trump has no plan to slow down the virus.

I don't think you understand what positivity rate means. It is a ratio. If we have 100,000 positive tests and 1,000,000 tested we have a 10% positivity rate. If there are 5,000 positive tests and 50,000 tests there is a 10% positivity rate. By comparing the ratio the number of tests become irrelevant. You are saying that we have a lot of infected because we have a lot of tests, but that is wrong. All of the extra people being tested, who don't have the virus, should lower the positivity rate. Say 500 people have the virus and 1000 people are tested, there is a 50% positivity rate. The say 500 people have the virus and 2000 people are tested the positivity rate is 25%. You see the more you test and have negative results the lower the positivity rate. 

Also, more importantly they don't have to test as much as us because they are doing contract tracing. We have to test everyone because the virus is everywhere.

Positivity rates are one of the worst ways to measure how bad the virus is in an area. What if only people with symptoms are getting tested? Of course your positivity rate will be higher. What if everyone who wants to get tested gets tested? Of course your positivity rate will be lower. All that matters is total case count and total death count. Total death count is more important because you can't "hide" that as much. You can "hide" the official number of cases either because of asymptomatic carriers or because people just aren't or can't get tested. 

If you like rates so much, you want a country who's doing horrible with the virus? Check out Mexico. 10.45% death rate for confirmed cases. In comparison, the U.S is at 2.84% death rate for confirmed cases. South Korea is at 1.73% death rate. Vietnam is at 3.19%. The point is, you can twist data about COVID-19 however you want to in order to fit whatever narrative you want to present. Based on my death rates, Vietnam has actually done a worse job with helping those infected with the virus than the U.S. Obviously this is a silly data point to argue over since the total deaths in the U.S is higher, but their death rate is higher. To me, total deaths is super important. Confirmed cases is also important because it shows how far the virus has spread, but ultimately deaths are what suck and truly matter.

[Californication | 1,477]

57 minutes ago, Rhino said:

Positivity rates are one of the worst ways to measure how bad the virus is in an area. What if only people with symptoms are getting tested? Of course your positivity rate will be higher. What if everyone who wants to get tested gets tested? Of course your positivity rate will be lower. All that matters is total case count and total death count. Total death count is more important because you can't "hide" that as much. You can "hide" the official number of cases either because of asymptomatic carriers or because people just aren't or can't get tested. 

If you like rates so much, you want a country who's doing horrible with the virus? Check out Mexico. 10.45% death rate for confirmed cases. In comparison, the U.S is at 2.84% death rate for confirmed cases. South Korea is at 1.73% death rate. Vietnam is at 3.19%. The point is, you can twist data about COVID-19 however you want to in order to fit whatever narrative you want to present. Based on my death rates, Vietnam has actually done a worse job with helping those infected with the virus than the U.S. Obviously this is a silly data point to argue over since the total deaths in the U.S is higher, but their death rate is higher. To me, total deaths is super important. Confirmed cases is also important because it shows how far the virus has spread, but ultimately deaths are what suck and truly matter.

Positivity rates are the worst way to measure this? Said no doctor or scientist ever. You have no idea what your talking about. My manager in california's entire family has had to be tested three times because her daughters keep getting symptoms at school. Then four of them have all been negative each time, but California law requires the testing before her daughters can go back into daycare. My uncles who is a plumber at the prison's family had to be tested because someone on his block got covid. They are all negative. Multiply that out.

Total death count matters the most? We have 4% of the worlds population and 25% of the worlds covid deaths. 

I don't understand what point you are trying to make. 

Edited October 1, 2020 by Californication

[Rhino | 105]

1 hour ago, Californication said:

Positivity rates are the worst way to measure this? Said no doctor or scientist ever. You have no idea what your talking about. My manager in california's entire family has had to be tested three times because her daughters keep getting symptoms at school. Then four of them have all been negative each time, but California law requires the testing before her daughters can go back into daycare. My uncles who is a plumber at the prison's family had to be tested because someone on his block got covid. They are all negative. Multiply that out.

Total death count matters the most? We have 4% of the worlds population and 25% of the worlds covid deaths. 

I don't understand what point you are trying to make. 

I am so lost now. Why did you bring your family and manager into this? They got tested and were negative. What is your point? 

The U.S does not have 25% of the actual death count of the worlds deaths. China has been lying out the ass this whole time. You're telling me they magically solved their COVID-19 problem in February? They must have hundreds of thousands, possibly millions of deaths by now from COVID-19. The U.S' death count percentage compared to the world will also decline as India and Brazil catch up. The U.S was one of the first big countries to seriously experience the outbreak after China. Several countries are months behind but are now catching up. The U.S total death count is bad and could end up being the official worst. Only time will tell. You remind me of people at the beginning of this who said the flu is worse than COVID-19 because it kills more people. Yes at the time that was true because the outbreak was a month old. You have to wait until the event has run it's course. Then we can compare stuff. For now, yes, the U.S has done a sh!t job with the virus. 

[Californication | 1,477]

I brought people I know into it because you are saying that the testing is so focused and the people getting tested mostly have the corona virus making the positivity rate irrelevant. The point is you don't understand what positivity rate means or the situations requiring people to get tested.

The reason India and Brazil are catching up is because they had the same strategy as Donald Trump.  Bolsenaro's just like Trump is refusing to wear a face mask.

Why would you compare our covid response to other countrys using the same faiked strategy. It makes more sense to compare ourselves to countrys that mandated masks and used contract tracing.

Edited October 1, 2020 by Californication

[Californication | 1,477]

@Rhino, what is your point? Are you saying that 200,000 deaths in the U.S. isn't that many and Trump has done a good job?

[Rhino | 105]

18 minutes ago, Californication said:

I brought people I know into it because you are saying that the testing is so focused and the people getting tested mostly have the corona virus making the positivity rate irrelevant. The point is you don't understand what positivity rate means or the laws od the most populous state in the country that require people to get tested.

I don't think you read or understand my post then. At the beginning of this, positivity rates were high because only those with symptoms got tested. Now people who simply have been in contact with anyone who had it get tested even if they don't have any symptoms. You see lower positivity rates now because there are more people getting tested who are less likely to test positive. That's why it's a bad stat to go off of to view how good or bad a country is dealing with COVID-19. 

[Rhino | 105]

16 minutes ago, Californication said:

@Rhino, what is your point? Are you saying that 200,000 deaths in the U.S. isn't that many and Trump has done a good job?

Seriously, are you even reading my posts? Are you just trolling me? What is going on? I literally just said "For now, yes, the U.S has done a sh!t job with the virus. "

200k deaths is a lot, and it'll be 250k+ by the end of the year. The country has not done a good job. Trump is partly to blame and has not done a good job either.

[Californication | 1,477]

11 hours ago, Rhino said:

I don't think you read or understand my post then. At the beginning of this, positivity rates were high because only those with symptoms got tested. Now people who simply have been in contact with anyone who had it get tested even if they don't have any symptoms. You see lower positivity rates now because there are more people getting tested who are less likely to test positive. That's why it's a bad stat to go off of to view how good or bad a country is dealing with COVID-19. 

You are doing it again. We are talking in circles. The point of using the positivity rate is to make the jumber of tests taken less of a factor. You keep talking like the main reason infection rate and positivy rate are changing is because the number of tests taken. They are changing because more people/less people are getting infected.

The positivty rate is used as opposed to a whole number because it can be used to estimate the infection rate in the population. 

And the positivity rates are not dropping across the country. Texas and Florida look like their getting ready to overtake California because their positivity rate have been increasing while Califonia's decreasing overall.

Edited October 1, 2020 by Californication

[Californication | 1,477]

8 hours ago, Rhino said:

Seriously, are you even reading my posts? Are you just trolling me? What is going on? I literally just said "For now, yes, the U.S has done a sh!t job with the virus. "

200k deaths is a lot, and it'll be 250k+ by the end of the year. The country has not done a good job. Trump is partly to blame and has not done a good job either.

This is like 85% Trumps fault. There is almost no federal response to Corona virus. And instead of creating laws to protect people Trump has spread misinformation about the corona virus. You are a perfect example. You are sitting here arguing over and over that the reason the number of infected people are going up is because more tests are being done. You believe that because that is what Donald Trump and his surrogates have spread through the conservative news spaces. And while you may be wearing a face mask when you go out, there are many other people who think it isn't necessary because they follow the same logic as you but reach the conclusion that it isn't necessary.  

[Rhino | 105]

10 hours ago, Californication said:

This is like 85% Trumps fault. There is almost no federal response to Corona virus. And instead of creating laws to protect people Trump has spread misinformation about the corona virus. You are a perfect example. You are sitting here arguing over and over that the reason the number of infected people are going up is because more tests are being done. You believe that because that is what Donald Trump and his surrogates have spread through the conservative news spaces. And while you may be wearing a face mask when you go out, there are many other people who think it isn't necessary because they follow the same logic as you but reach the conclusion that it isn't necessary.  

Okay you got me. You are just trolling me. Well done. Trump is partly to blame yes, but everyone has the power to research stuff on there own, to wear a mask, and to not go out and gather in large crowds. That's not at all what I'm arguing. I know you're trolling me, but what I'm saying is the positivity rate is going down because more tests are being done. I never said anything about there being more confirmed cases because there are more tests being done (that probably only applied during the first month or so of this when they could only do a certain amount of tests in a day.) I do my own research. I don't follow Trump. I'm not a moron. I know COVID-19 is real and a serious problem. You need to stop putting words in people's mouths and assuming things about them. Trolling or not, it's not a good look for you.

Edited October 1, 2020 by Rhino

[Rhino | 105]

10 hours ago, Californication said:

You are doing it again. We are talking in circles. The point of using the positivity rate is to make the jumber of tests taken less of a factor. You keep talking like the main reason infection rate and positivy rate are changing is because the number of tests taken. They are changing because more people/less people are getting infected.

The positivty rate is used as opposed to a whole number because it can be used to estimate the infection rate in the population. 

And the positivity rates are not dropping across the country. Texas and Florida look like their getting ready to overtake California because their positivity rate have been increasing while Califonia's decreasing overall.

While we're at it since you still don't get it, here are the positivity rates (total cases divided by total tests) for the top 10 countries with the most cases, as well as the 2 you have brought up, and then some other countries.

U.S  6.92%
India 8.5%
Brazil  26.89%
Russia 2.55%
Colombia 22.19%
Peru 20.93%
Spain 6.04%
Argentina 38.47%
Mexico 38.14%
South Africa 16.10%
Vietnam .1%
South Korea 1.02%
Nigeria 11.54%
Egypt 76.44%
Indonesia 8.63%
Mozambique 6.3%
Japan 3.98%
Kenya 7.03%
Australia .35%
Thailand .47%


This is why positivity rate is such a sh!tty data point to base success or failure off of for the virus. If this is all we looked at, the U.S doesn't look so bad, but in reality, the U.S has the most deaths by 68k. The U.S would be the 8th worst of the top 10 countries if this data point was what we cared about.

 

[Californication | 1,477]

Donald Trump has Corona virus. That makes me smile. Someone get this man some bleach and a flashlight.

Talk about an October surprise. This will literally save lives. He should have to cancel his rallies in Wisconsin that are surging in new corona cases.

Edited October 2, 2020 by Californication

[Tulpa | 3,488]

[RH | 4,889]

Let's not forget Mike Myers as well.

[Silent Hill | 276]

Anyone in California excited to spend their Thanksgiving this way?

"All gatherings must include no more than three households, including hosts and guests, and must be held outdoors, lasting for two hours of less"

 

The new rules state those at a gathering "may remove their face coverings briefly to eat or drink as long as they stay at least 6 feet away from everyone outside their own household, and put their face covering back on as soon as they are done with the activity."

[Tulpa | 3,488]

2 hours ago, Silent Hill said:

Anyone in California excited to spend their Thanksgiving this way?

 

If it's a choice between that and gasping for breath...

Thanksgiving is overrated anyway.

[ZeldaFreak | 3,600]

11 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

Thanksgiving is overrated anyway.

I'm glad someone finally said what I've been thinking for years

[Gloves | 11,759]

Seriously, just stay home and have the holiday with your immediate family. Like that's so terrible lol.

[Silent Hill | 276]

13 hours ago, Tulpa said:

If it's a choice between that and gasping for breath...

Thanksgiving is overrated anyway.

There's a third choice in there, though I understand you may not feel that there is.

13 hours ago, Gloves said:

Seriously, just stay home and have the holiday with your immediate family. Like that's so terrible lol.

It's one thing to have a "safe Holiday guideline" or something, but I just think it's bonkers for CA to deliver something like this. 

Curious why some of these "rules" are even suggested. Two hours outside? Is there some magic to that? Wonder why protests aren't treated the same. I'd like to think the right to be with your family is as valid as your right to protest.