Should the Final Level be the Hardest Level?

[T-Pac | 7,543]

Most games ramp up the difficulty in the end, but a few let you coast through in a "victory lap" of sorts.

What's your preference? And does it depend on the type of game?

[T-Pac]

[RH | 4,903]

Others may disagree, but I do kind of appreciate that victory-lap feel.  Conversely, I've always felt it was cheap when a game had a really hard, last boss battle, you defeat the enemy and you let your guard down and take a breath to only be killed in 2 seconds by the unexpected second form of the final boss.

[RH | 4,903]

Also, poll?

[Rhuno | 107]

I don't have much of an issue either way. I'm fine with the final stage/boss being a bit tough, but I'm not a fan of games that massively spike the difficulty for it. A recent example I can think of is Atelier Ryza; breezed through the entire game only to get absolutely smoked by the final boss.

[Tulpa | 3,494]

Hard final, as long as it doesn't drag too long.

Victory lap stages feel anticlimactic. 

[fox | 1,667]

Not necessarily.  

Most games have a pretty flat difficulty curve.  The actual progression is more about the player having all the right tools and upgrades and mastery of the game mechanics and skills.

Just getting started in a new game is daunting, getting a grip with the controls, figuring out where to go, and getting established in the world.  Getting that first foothold is sometimes the hardest part.

Nobody likes the surprise twist of a sudden end of game difficulty spike just for the last level or SNK final boss. It feels out of nowhere and lazy, like the developers didn’t care about balancing or were trying to subvert expectations.  Like a book with a bad ending or tv show with a crummy finale,  a cheap Final level or boss can sour you on the whole game.

Edited December 5, 2023 by fox

[Sumez | 2,951]

I don't mind victory lap stages. But if a game has such, the stage/boss before it would probably be considered the final one by most people who played it. 

For any challenging game, I think a good final stage and/or final boss has a fantastic psychological effect: You've made it all this way - now everything you've mastered needs to come together for you to prove that you are good enough to beat everything the game can throw at you! You either win and you have beaten the game, or you lose and you need to go back and improve. 

It absolutely should be the toughest challenge. I don't even mind if it's a sudden spike. Some final bosses, such as EspGaluda's, are legendary for that reason, and it makes the victory all the sweeter. 

[Gaia Gensouki | 1,073]

In action or arcade style games it makes sense that the last level would be the most difficult one.

However, when it comes to RPGs I've come to despise overly long and difficult final dungeons. There are games that I've quit right at the end because I didn't feel like suffering through a stupidly difficult and long dungeon.

Or sometimes I forced myself through these dungeons, but it totally killed the built-up tension. Because prior to these dungeons the tension in the story is at an all-time high and you're just desperately waiting for the final showdown and the resolution of the conflict. But before that you have to get through a several hour long dungeon or maybe spend hours grinding your characters just so that you have a fighting chance. But by then I feel so divorced from the story, that I don't really care anymore when I finally reach the final boss.

Therefore I prefer it when a long RPG has the hardest and longest dungeons before the story ramps up in intensity, i.e. something like the penultimate dungeon or even before that.

[DarkTone | 984]

Examples of victory laps?

[twiztor | 851]

i think the final stage should be the hardest, as the game should ramp up in difficulty over its course. ridiculous difficulty spikes are not my favorite, but i am begrudgingly ok with them.

can't think of any "victory lap" games i've played, but i'm not opposed to the idea.

[Rhuno | 107]

4 hours ago, DarkTone said:

Examples of victory laps?

Maybe others have different thoughts on this, but I think the original Halo has it with the final warthog run through the exploding Autumn. It feels much more intense than it really is. It's an ending that manages to be exciting without being difficult.

[Dr. Morbis | 2,088]

8 hours ago, DarkTone said:

Examples of victory laps?

Kid Icarus: the final shooter level, on NES.

9 hours ago, Gaia Gensouki said:

However, when it comes to RPGs I've come to despise overly long and difficult final dungeons. There are games that I've quit right at the end because I didn't feel like suffering through a stupidly difficult and long dungeon.

This is a huge pet-peeve of mine as well.  The original Final Fantasy had a rather long final dungeon, but it's still managable, and you could use an exit spell to get out and save your xp progress, but the final dungeon of Final Fantasy III (for Famicom) is ridiculously long, and exit spells don't work, meaning it's all or nothing as you can't save your earned XP and bail without walking all the way back down to the ground floor, and then through another smaller dungeon that rings around the final dungeon, before you can finally get back to your airship (and you can't even return at all once you've crossed into the last part of the dungeon, which is pretty large and cumbersome on its own).  That final dungeon is probably about a third of the entire game in terms of length of time to play through, especially if you decend first for the powerful items and weapons below before going up the tower, and it's enough of a drag that I absolutely will not revisit this otherwise great game again as long as I live; just the thought of having to slog through all that shit at the end is enough of a deterrent on its own...

[JamesRobot | 5,800]

I like it when the final level or boss is still challenging but it's just a step down from the previous.  So not quite a victory lap but you still gotta put in the work.  TMNT 2 comes to mind.  Krang is a pain in the ass and even though you fight two Shredders, it's a little less of a pain in the ass.  That mutant zapper is cheap as hell though.

[NostalgicMachine | 235]

It depends on the game IMO. There are some games, where the final boss is always the hardest no matter what difficulty setting or circumstance, ala Shao Kahn in UMK3. TMNT2 is another great example of a "victory lap" alongside Kid Icarus.

[PII | 1,885]

I like when I have a hard time deciding which is the greater challenge.  And I particularly enjoy it when the penultimate level is definitively the highest challenge and the final level is very nearly as difficult or at least comparable but also an odd or unique structure relative to the rest of the games levels.  CastleVania is a good example of that..

[cartman | 195]

The last boss should be the hardest it just seems reasonable. If an organisation or grand orchestrator of something evil is dispatched at the very beginning then it defeats it's own premise.

[mbd39 | 2,020]

16 hours ago, DarkTone said:

Examples of victory laps?

You're so insanely powered up by the end of Super Metroid that completing the final area is more of a formality. It's the opposite of the original Metroid where the final boss fight is pretty hard.

 

[Dr. Morbis | 2,088]

12 hours ago, cartman said:

The last boss should be the hardest it just seems reasonable. If an organisation or grand orchestrator of something evil is dispatched at the very beginning then it defeats it's own premise.

Yeah, but wouldn't you want to hire henchmen who are stronger (or nearly as strong as) yourself?  It always bugged me that the final bosses of video games have such God-like strength compared to their body guards; like, why did you even bother to hire these guys in the first place?

If I made a game, I would have a bad-ass boss battle near the end, but then the master-mind behind it all would be a feeble regular-strength dude that you get to mop the floor with because all of his protection is finally gone (think: Dr. Wily)...

[mbd39 | 2,020]

15 minutes ago, Dr. Morbis said:

Yeah, but wouldn't you want to hire henchmen who are stronger (or nearly as strong as) yourself?  It always bugged me that the final bosses of video games have such God-like strength compared to their body guards; like, why did you even bother to hire these guys in the first place?

If I made a game, I would have a bad-ass boss battle near the end, but then the master-mind behind it all would be a feeble regular-strength dude that you get to mop the floor with because all of his protection is finally gone (think: Dr. Wily)...

Bayou Billy handled this in a smart way. You fight the main villain's two much stronger henchmen right after you fight him.

 

[cartman | 195]

8 hours ago, Dr. Morbis said:

Yeah, but wouldn't you want to hire henchmen who are stronger (or nearly as strong as) yourself?  It always bugged me that the final bosses of video games have such God-like strength compared to their body guards; like, why did you even bother to hire these guys in the first place?

If I made a game, I would have a bad-ass boss battle near the end, but then the master-mind behind it all would be a feeble regular-strength dude that you get to mop the floor with because all of his protection is finally gone (think: Dr. Wily)...

Not neccessarily. There are quite a few examples where the overlord is much stronger than any single henchman - even so it get's amplified by having a group. Like Azog the Defiler. Being the top dog still serves the purpose of inspiring/scaring the underlings, even if he couldn't take on his whole army if they were to gang up on him. It's kind of beside the point really.

[T-Pac | 7,543]

On 12/6/2023 at 3:42 AM, PII said:

...the final level is very nearly as difficult or at least comparable but also an odd or unique structure relative to the rest of the games levels.  

This is a super interesting opinion. At least in theory, I feel like a "proper" final level tests you on the same skills and mechanics you've mastered over the course of the game rather than throwing something completely different at you.

That's not to say I always dislike a "different" final level (I don't like how Robocco Wars suddenly becomes a maze, but I think the shoot-em-up stage in Kid Icarus is fun) - it just doesn't strike me as a well-rounded culmination of your efforts up to that point.

[T-Pac]

[T-Pac | 7,543]

My personal preference is that the final level of a game has the most difficult stage, but the easiest (or nearly the easiest) boss. I think that's a nice combination of "ultimate challenge" and "victory lap".

My only problem with a pushover final boss is if the fight is too short as a result. I still want to savor the encounter a bit.

I appreciate when game-designers build-up the atmosphere of the final showdown to feel significant rather than making it memorable by just programming an incredibly difficult fight.

[T-Pac]

[drxandy | 3,225]

I like balance, easing into harder levels, maybe a plateau then surprise me. The end being hard is great, no one wants to get to the end and feel like "that was it?".

[phart010 | 1,707]

Final level should be hardest. But not outrageously hard. Average people should be able to win. If you want to make an outrageously hard level, unlock it after you have beaten the game

[Foochie776 | 1,052]

1 hour ago, phart010 said:

Final level should be hardest. But not outrageously hard. Average people should be able to win. If you want to make an outrageously hard level, unlock it after you have beaten the game

Agreed completely