Completed the Super A'can set!

[DarkKobold | 191]

22 minutes ago, Khromak said:

So...what's the solution then? You see a holy grail item you've been after for 8 years pop up on auction, and you're supposed to just bid like...half of what you think it's worth? Let someone else buy it, because you don't want to drive prices up too much?

 

Thanks for posting this. To add to this, with it highly unlikely to come up for sale again... Driving the price up for who? The nonexistent future buyer? 

A copy of Chase HQ 2 for the Amstrad GX4000 sold for $800 back in like 2008. There hasn't been a copy seen since. People were complaining about how high that was. In retrospect, that is a laughably low price for a game not seen for 15 years. I don't imagine if a copy of REBEL comes up for sale a decade from now, this price will have any bearing on that future sale price.
 

[spacepup | 2,405]

This thread took a really bizarre and at times embarrassing direction.

@DarkKobold - you didn't do anything wrong and I have no idea why you got the raining on your parade at times.

I'd like to point out that OP never specifically said the exact amount he paid - just that it was expensive.

OP also never said this is the rarest game of all time.  And yes, the game absolutely IS very rare - way more rare (and in my opinion more interesting) than stadium events, yet people spend way more on Stadium Events often.

People have been spending 10 figures and higher on games way less rare, for a long time now.  Whether that is 'reasonable' or not, is up to each person's perspective, but I'm not sure why this particular transaction would be so scrutinized.  It's a very rare game, with a niche demand.  I know of at least one other party who was very seriously interested and raising funds to bid on this, but backed out.  

I took this thread to be DarkKobold excited about his set and sharing it, which is cool to see.  I didn't at all get any vibes of him completely showboating or being ridiculous.

What would normally be an interesting set and discussion, somehow got derailed into weird semi-related arguments and for what? I don't know.

 

[Ankos | 444]

21 hours ago, Khromak said:

I think most people would qualify games that sell single copies every decade as being pretty rare. That's like, undoubtedly in the "rarest video games known to exist" category. Fraction of 1% of rarity, like 99.95% rarest games in existence. Most consoles have between 0-1 non-prototype games of this rarity. Most consoles have 0 games this rare. Calling it a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity is absolutely true.

Rebel sort of is a proto since it was not formally released. I think it was more of a sample copy for reviewers or something similar, but it really isn't part of the main A'can library, rather a small glimpse into the planned library that never came to be. There's a whole bunch of other canned A'can games in addition to it, here's a great video on it. It is a bit cynical, but it is comprehensive, and one of the best records of a Taiwanese perspective on it available to English speakers

 

Edited September 27, 2023 by Ankos

[Khromak | 769]

Do manufacturers usually make boxes and manuals for prototypes?

[Ankos | 444]

4 minutes ago, Khromak said:

Do manufacturers usually make boxes and manuals for prototypes?

I'd have to guess that would have to do with why the prototype was made and what is counted as a prototype. Rebel may not be a true prototype, but it does seem to be a prerelease build that wasn't made available to the public based on what I've heard, so it is kinda similar. Something made for internal development used to test stuff out I think would not have its own box and manual, though there may be boxes and manuals drafted internally internally as well

[DarkKobold | 191]

12 minutes ago, Ankos said:

I'd have to guess that would have to do with why the prototype was made and what is counted as a prototype. Rebel may not be a true prototype, but it does seem to be a prerelease build that wasn't made available to the public based on what I've heard, so it is kinda similar. Something made for internal development used to test stuff out I think would not have its own box and manual, though there may be boxes and manuals drafted internally internally as well

I remember reading that a warehouse full of carts burned down. That could have been a complete B.S. rumor, or the truth. But, if we take it as truth, it might also be that the system was discontinued before this game actually made it to store shelves. Thus, potentially many copies were sitting in said warehouse, the entire thing burned down, and the only copies that made it out were ones handed to people directly involved with the system before it was released.

That's just one possibility - I don't know Taiwanese tax law, but in America, TTi bulldozed copies of Magical Chase so they could write it off as a tax loss. Same with E.T. and Pacman buried in the desert. In the US, you have to destroy product to get a tax deduction for it. 

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

45 minutes ago, spacepup said:

I'd like to point out that OP never specifically said the exact amount he paid - just that it was expensive.

It was $5600 and change, plus tax and all that - I found the completed sale on eBay. 

[spacepup | 2,405]

1 minute ago, CodysGameRoom said:

It was $5600 and change, plus tax and all that - I found the completed sale on eBay. 

Yeah - the auction was pretty popular and I was watching this one throughout.  I just meant... that he didn't pop in here bragging about it with specific dollar amounts.

[Ankos | 444]

19 minutes ago, DarkKobold said:

I remember reading that a warehouse full of carts burned down. That could have been a complete B.S. rumor, or the truth. But, if we take it as truth, it might also be that the system was discontinued before this game actually made it to store shelves. Thus, potentially many copies were sitting in said warehouse, the entire thing burned down, and the only copies that made it out were ones handed to people directly involved with the system before it was released.

That's just one possibility - I don't know Taiwanese tax law, but in America, TTi bulldozed copies of Magical Chase so they could write it off as a tax loss. Same with E.T. and Pacman buried in the desert. In the US, you have to destroy product to get a tax deduction for it. 

That's a new one to me. Something I just remembered was the Gamate also had some weird carts that seem to have been given to people outside of the normal channels. They had light grey or white tabs and had alternate versions of the final products

[a3quit4s | 4,103]

@fcgamer just mad his back alley Taiwan Super Mario Bros 3 Yakuza edition isn’t worth $5k

[spacepup | 2,405]

@DarkKobold I meant to ask previously in the thread - but switching gears back to something more fun and positive - what first got you interested in Super A'can?  

It's definitely a unique / niche system, that I know most people aren't collecting or even aware of.

Collecting for NES / having a fullset there, is obviously cool as well, but I think it's neat when people are collecting obscure systems and sets as well, so it's neat to see a completed collection there!

[Brickman | 3,995]

Man it’s sad to read people be bitter and shitting on someone ticking off a collection goal. Reminds me of the people on NA. Really sad if that’s where this place is heading.

I’d never heard of this console but congratulations and thanks for planning to dump the game. It’s good when stuff like this gets into collectors hands that want to share it.

[DarkKobold | 191]

46 minutes ago, spacepup said:

@DarkKobold I meant to ask previously in the thread - but switching gears back to something more fun and positive - what first got you interested in Super A'can?  

It's definitely a unique / niche system, that I know most people aren't collecting or even aware of.

Collecting for NES / having a fullset there, is obviously cool as well, but I think it's neat when people are collecting obscure systems and sets as well, so it's neat to see a completed collection there!

Thanks for asking! 

I played C.U.G. in a random hotel hallway back at Midwest Gaming Classic 2015. (It's quite ironic that it was just sitting unattended in that hallway, given what things are worth now.) I loved the character, the great graphics, and the gameplay. I wanted to play more, but I wasn't able to break away from my booth for very long. I came home dying to complete that game. A few notes about me as a collector - I love to do difficult collections. I love to make complete sets. I love failed consoles. The Super A'can hit all three of those perfectly. It became an obsession.

I spent the next 6 months scouring literally every single video game listing on Ruten (I found one that had been labeled wrong, that was a score!), making connections, doing whatever I could to buy off Taiwanese sites. I managed to put together one 11 of 12 set, and another 9 of 12 set... but of course always missing REBEL. I was one of many back in the day that hit up Brandon Cobb over at Assembler games to sell his copy, but of course at the time he wouldn't budge.

I eventually stopped scouring the sites, as everything had been getting bought up, and I had given up on ever obtaining REBEL. I moved on to other sets, but I still love the A'can, and talked about it routinely. I fly from Utah to MGC to meet up with a group of friends. While this auction was live, I did a search of our facebook chat, and saw that the game had been mentioned over 100 times. It was basically a meme of the chat group. It's definitely always been on my radar, and I wasn't going to give up the chance to own it, even if that decision cost me my PS2 collection. 

 

In regards to other obscurities, I have a complete* Amstrad GX4000 collection (minus Chase HQ, 2 known copies, very similar to REBEL). I'm missing 3 games for a complete Sord M5 collection (including Adidas lucky shoot... 1 known?) . I have a complete Atari Jaguar/Jaguar CD collection (although that's almost mainstream, comparatively). I'm also working on an Emmerson Arcadia set, a Nuon set, sort stalled out on the GameKing set, about 3/4 of the way done on the Watara Supervision set. 

 

 

 

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

@DarkKobold How's the R-Zone collection coming?

[DarkKobold | 191]

4 minutes ago, CodysGameRoom said:

@DarkKobold How's the R-Zone collection coming?

I only ever found one console and a few games. 

In a world where I have infinite money, I'd love to get a complete set of Tiger handhelds. Those games are so awful, but the art on them is so interesting and unique. I pick up any Tiger handheld I can find cheap. People want pretty wild money for those these days, too. 

[Gloves | 11,794]

14 minutes ago, DarkKobold said:

I only ever found one console and a few games. 

In a world where I have infinite money, I'd love to get a complete set of Tiger handhelds. Those games are so awful, but the art on them is so interesting and unique. I pick up any Tiger handheld I can find cheap. People want pretty wild money for those these days, too. 

I had a Sonic the Hedgehog Tiger handheld as a kid that I used in the car all the time, it was pretty simple but I liked it a lot.

This one:

[Link | 2,714]

4 hours ago, spacepup said:

but I'm not sure why this particular transaction would be so scrutinized

... You know why  

[spacepup | 2,405]

Thanks for sharing DarkKobold!  I was curious about where it all started.  

This is not to knock all the people who have dedicated years to collecting popular sets like NES - but, if everyone's collection was the same set of NES games, it'd be much less interesting to talk with other collectors.  So I always find it neat when someone is going after more obscure items.

I definitely understand how it can be a challenge.  I'm going after PS2 (US and Japan) demos myself, and several of them, it isn't even about how much money it costs - it's about even finding one for sale.  That can be really challenging and take many years.

Either way, definitely congratulations on getting this one!  As I said, I know some others who were very legitimately interested, but they are happy to know where it landed.

[Tanooki | 4,939]

19 hours ago, a3quit4s said:

@fcgamer just mad his back alley Taiwan Super Mario Bros 3 Yakuza edition isn’t worth $5k

Hah, no he was pissed that it IS worth $5k, $5k new taiwan dollar ($155USD)

 

Also it may seem strange but it's not that strange, back at Midway we used to print off test manuals and boxes, first as color mastered sheets and card stock like retail would have and hand them around to look for defects from printing, spelling, grammar, omission etc and mark them up and run it again.  They would get assembled into legit retail like packaging of the box and manual.  I'm not really sure if they were vaulted up after that tucked away, thrown out as is, ripped, burned, whatever as I never cared to ask.  But it's quite possible if a big (then) company at the time did this work, why some little fly by night taiwanese operation might not do the same for its prototype too as it wasn't just unheard of.

Ankos doesn't have a stake in this to kiss fcgamers ass or pacify either, so I'd take what he says given the insane depths of research he has done into numerous screwball small operation things as a statement of value.

[DarkKobold | 191]

1 hour ago, Tanooki said:

Hah, no he was pissed that it IS worth $5k, $5k new taiwan dollar ($155USD)

 

 

OK, since it's worth that, you should be able to obtain it for that, right? Hit me up when you find it for that price. Good luck. 

Saying what something is worth when it's not available for that price is just an endless circlejerk of useless opinions. I can say NTSC Stadium Events is only worth $100, max. No one on the planet is gonna sell it to me for that. So I can sit here with my smug attitude that "I alone know the REAL price," while never owning that cart. The market doesn't give half a shit about how you feel about prices.

The TG16 community used to pull this bullshit back in 2015. They'd quote prices well below what things were actually selling for. No one would ever sell for those prices, but they'd yell and scream at any new person for "overspending." They proposed no workable solutions, other than "I can have these games and you can't." They were gatekeeping collecting. New collectors told them to suck rocks instead of cowtowing to their bullshit imaginary price guide. The community was just considered a toxic cesspool by new users. Good times. 

[xelement5x | 66]

14 hours ago, spacepup said:

I definitely understand how it can be a challenge.  I'm going after PS2 (US and Japan) demos myself, and several of them, it isn't even about how much money it costs - it's about even finding one for sale.  That can be really challenging and take many years.

I always find the crazy difficult to locate stuff so interesting to dig into as well.  Like what is the reasoning behind why one random piece in the middle of a bunch is so hard to find?  Production issues, low (or even high!) demand, timing, etc.  This kind of stuff is why I originally found collecting so fun.  

There are a lot of people out there who think it all depends on price and if you've got enough money you can buy whatever your heart desires. But on the truly rare stuff there are such weird limits that come into place as well.  If not a single copy has show up in a long time it's mainly a waiting game and hoping for luck on a mis-priced item, or saving and shelling out large amounts of cash.  

[spacepup | 2,405]

Yeah - there are definitely plenty of items that I've been after for years, and can't find a single copy available on any marketplace, globally. 

There are others that I was finally able to obtain, but took many years to get.  

It's definitely not all about spending the most money, when it comes down to really rare / uncommon items.  As limited as Stadium Events is, it seems it is always possible to buy one if you throw out enough money.

[DarkKobold | 191]

9 minutes ago, spacepup said:

It's definitely not all about spending the most money, when it comes down to really rare / uncommon items.  As limited as Stadium Events is, it seems it is always possible to buy one if you throw out enough money.

I agree 100% with this. When I was building my A'can -1 set, I was not just throwing money at eBay, I was importing directly from sketchy Taiwanese sites I found, and searching low and high for games, attempting to make connections. 

However, when something as rare as REBEL is comes up for auction, sometimes the only way to get it is to throw money at it. It's entirely possible someone will find a case of 12 unopened copies tomorrow. However, I wasn't going to take that risk. Despite the angry ramblings on this forum, the only way to get this item was to have the item end with me as the highest bidder. Every angry person here says I shouldn't have spent as much, but doesn't have an alternative workable solution. Waiting another decade for someone to sell it wasn't an option for me.... And it likely will sell for even more money. 

 

 

[spacepup | 2,405]

It was an open auction.  You paid what you were comfortable with paying.  And you seem to be happy with the purchase. 

Therefore, nothing else really matters

 

[ThePhleo | 2,185]

On 9/26/2023 at 12:51 PM, fcgamer said:

Aladdin Deck Enhancer is an A++ rarity too, and how about Tengen's Tetris?

No, it's a R6 as of the past 90 Days. It might be a R5 during some 90 day windows, or a R7 through others....

It might have been an A++ (translated to R10) around 1999 in the New Jersey shore area though, since that's what Etler's list was, just a metric of games that went through his shop at the time.

 

ALSO: Congrats on the set @DarkKobold

I remember reading about this system in EGM and wanting one so bad, so you can legitimately say there's nostalgia in the west for it.

Edited September 27, 2023 by ThePhleo